Studies linking IQ and faith

I am just wondering if anybody had any information about studies done linking IQ and faith of any kind (preferably christian).

thanks in advance

There are studies that correlate an increased level of academic achievement with a decreased level of religiosity (but which obviously say nothing of causation), but that's about it.  There's also a thing that has been floated around before that claimed a correlation between average IQ in a country and average religiosity in that country, but I personally felt that looked like BS given that it claimed that some countries' citizens had an average IQ of like 60. 

There are studies that correlate an increased level of academic achievement with a decreased level of religiosity (but which obviously say nothing of causation), but that's about it.  There's also a thing that has been floated around before that claimed a correlation between average IQ in a country and average religiosity in that country, but I personally felt that looked like BS given that it claimed that some countries' citizens had an average IQ of like 60. 

GabuEx

Indeed, correlation is all there is at this point, AFAIK.

Regarding the correlation between avg. IQ and level of religious practice amongst it's citizens, it is definitely BS, and for several reasons, the most prominent being that you cannot apply a conventional IQ test across the board. The information given will be too inadequate to even form an educated opinion on the matter.

I totally dislike such surveys/studies.

What else could they be used for, other than implicitely or explicitely offend a religious person?

I totally dislike such surveys/studies.

What else could they be used for, other than implicitely or explicitely offend a religious person?

Teenaged

And why does it matter if it offends a religious person?

And why does it matter if it offends a religious person?

Gambler_3

It's not that it offends religious people so much as it has no purpose other than offending religious people.  I mean, you're not exactly going to convince a religious person that he should be an atheist by telling him that he's stupid, which is more or less the purpose of bringing up such ideas.

[QUOTE="Gambler_3"]

And why does it matter if it offends a religious person?

GabuEx

It's not that it offends religious people so much as it has no purpose other than offending religious people.  I mean, you're not exactly going to convince a religious person that he should be an atheist by telling him that he's stupid, which is more or less the purpose of bringing up such ideas.

I am very aware gambler that many things may offend people and that not all of their complains should be "respected" but in this case there is no constructive result out of it, or another point to be made which is valid and other than being valid also achieves something more than offending the other person. And the fact that those surveys are about something which is so vague and ambiguous and hard-to-define doesnt help me to see it seriously.

Surely if a theist starts making claims that atheists are dumb and ignorant then they would deserve being shown that kind of "evidence". At the very least its very satisfying throwing it at their faces. :P

But generally I see no purpose.

Huh my first post got moderated for "offending".

My god **** gamespot, **** it's pathetic rules, **** me, ban me I can ****ing cae now, this place is **** am off.

I totally dislike such surveys/studies.

What else could they be used for, other than implicitely or explicitely offend a religious person?

Teenaged

Such a sentiment of repressing unfashionable truths is a stake right at the heart of philosophy.

[QUOTE="Gambler_3"]

And why does it matter if it offends a religious person?

GabuEx

It's not that it offends religious people so much as it has no purpose other than offending religious people. I mean, you're not exactly going to convince a religious person that he should be an atheist by telling him that he's stupid, which is more or less the purpose of bringing up such ideas.

Isn't the search for truth itself a purpose? You can't assume that the conductor of these studies are just a bunch of angry atheist desperate to offend the theists.

I'd wager against that conjecture.

Isn't the search for truth itself a purpose? You can't assume that the conductor of these studies are just a bunch of angry atheist desperate to offend the theists.MetalGear_Ninty

I think I would find it very difficult to be convinced that someone who specifically asked the question of "Are atheists smarter than theists?" is just innocently searching for truth with no ulterior motive to use the answer.

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

I totally dislike such surveys/studies.

What else could they be used for, other than implicitely or explicitely offend a religious person?

MetalGear_Ninty

Such a sentiment of repressing unfashionable truths is a stake right at the heart of philosophy.

Immediately when I saw the thread I thought about atheists/agnostics looking for yet another thing to just rub it in the theists face. And I'll be honest: like I said before I would take pleasure out of doing that to specific theists or specific types of them but thats about it and thats where the point is. I would want to show it to those theists because they piss me off. But simultaneously I think that I know of theists who dont piss me off. On the contrary; they are great people whoare smart and I appreciate them.

In the context of using a survey to piss off the person who pisses you off you are actually making an intentional generalised statement which aims in infuriating the other person; part of that fury will come from the fact that the survey is thrown at him in which doesnt really imply that the person throwing it is having the best or the most unbiased of intentions.

And this is where its a "deal-breaker" for me.

[QUOTE="MetalGear_Ninty"]I'd wager against that conjecture.

Isn't the search for truth itself a purpose? You can't assume that the conductor of these studies are just a bunch of angry atheist desperate to offend the theists.GabuEx

I think I would find it very difficult to be convinced that someone who specifically asked the question of "Are atheists smarter than theists?" is just innocently searching for truth with no ulterior motive to use the answer.

If however, the question was posed "Is there a correlation between faith and IQ?", then the motives of the surveyor would be much less suspect, and after all, that is what is being suggested by the OP, no?

Indeed, the intent may be the reverse to what you said, and the researcher may intend to discover a positive correlation between IQ and levels of religiosity/faith, or even to show that there is no correlation at all.

[QUOTE="MetalGear_Ninty"][QUOTE="Teenaged"]

I totally dislike such surveys/studies.

What else could they be used for, other than implicitely or explicitely offend a religious person?

Teenaged

Such a sentiment of repressing unfashionable truths is a stake right at the heart of philosophy.

Immediately when I saw the thread I thought about atheists/agnostics looking for yet another thing to just rub it in the theists face. And I'll be honest: like I said before I would take pleasure out of doing that to specific theists or specific types of them but thats about it and thats where the point is. I would want to show it to those theists because they piss me off. But simultaneously I think that I know of theists who dont piss me off. On the contrary; they are great people whoare smart and I appreciate them.

In the context of using a survey to piss off the person who pisses you off you are actually making an intentional generalised statement which aims in infuriating the other person; part of that fury will come from the fact that the survey is thrown at him in which doesnt really imply that the person throwing it is having the best or the most unbiased of intentions.

And this is where its a "deal-breaker" for me.

Again, both you and Gabu are kind of assuming that the study must be carried out to prove the alleged lack of intelligence of those with faith -- that isn't necessarily true -- it can work both ways.

[QUOTE="Teenaged"][QUOTE="MetalGear_Ninty"][QUOTE="Teenaged"]

I totally dislike such surveys/studies.

What else could they be used for, other than implicitely or explicitely offend a religious person?

MetalGear_Ninty

Such a sentiment of repressing unfashionable truths is a stake right at the heart of philosophy.

Immediately when I saw the thread I thought about atheists/agnostics looking for yet another thing to just rub it in the theists face. And I'll be honest: like I said before I would take pleasure out of doing that to specific theists or specific types of them but thats about it and thats where the point is. I would want to show it to those theists because they piss me off. But simultaneously I think that I know of theists who dont piss me off. On the contrary; they are great people whoare smart and I appreciate them.

In the context of using a survey to piss off the person who pisses you off you are actually making an intentional generalised statement which aims in infuriating the other person; part of that fury will come from the fact that the survey is thrown at him in which doesnt really imply that the person throwing it is having the best or the most unbiased of intentions.

And this is where its a "deal-breaker" for me.

Again, both you and Gabu are kind of assuming that the study must be carried out to prove the alleged lack of intelligence of those with faith -- that isn't necessarily true -- it can work both ways.

Well, in the awsome debates that are carried out in OT, you know, "official" data like surveys/studies are preffered, and I dont think that someone would cite such a survey in an occassion other than a debate-like discussion. So yes, a survey does have more gravity than a mere claim. Unless you mean that there are other ways to prove it.

 I dont understand what you mean by "it can work both ways". EDIT: I got it now.

[QUOTE="MetalGear_Ninty"][QUOTE="Teenaged"][QUOTE="MetalGear_Ninty"][QUOTE="Teenaged"]

I totally dislike such surveys/studies.

What else could they be used for, other than implicitely or explicitely offend a religious person?

Teenaged

Such a sentiment of repressing unfashionable truths is a stake right at the heart of philosophy.

Immediately when I saw the thread I thought about atheists/agnostics looking for yet another thing to just rub it in the theists face. And I'll be honest: like I said before I would take pleasure out of doing that to specific theists or specific types of them but thats about it and thats where the point is. I would want to show it to those theists because they piss me off. But simultaneously I think that I know of theists who dont piss me off. On the contrary; they are great people whoare smart and I appreciate them.

In the context of using a survey to piss off the person who pisses you off you are actually making an intentional generalised statement which aims in infuriating the other person; part of that fury will come from the fact that the survey is thrown at him in which doesnt really imply that the person throwing it is having the best or the most unbiased of intentions.

And this is where its a "deal-breaker" for me.

Again, both you and Gabu are kind of assuming that the study must be carried out to prove the alleged lack of intelligence of those with faith -- that isn't necessarily true -- it can work both ways.

Well, in the awsome debates that are carried out in OT, you know, "official" data like surveys/studies are preffered, and I dont think that someone would cite such a survey in an occassion other than a debate-like discussion. So yes, a survey does have more gravity than a mere claim. Unless you mean that there are other ways to prove it.

I dont understand what you mean by "it can work both ways".

Sorry, my last post was ambiguous, and you've justifiably misinterpreted. I mean that a researcher could conduct a survey to try and show that theists are on general more intelligent than atheists, or indeed that there is no correlation between IQ and faith. In this case, such a survey, couldn't possibly be seen as an attack on theists.

Your statement wasn't ambiguous, so I didn't think it needed clarification. I can't go around asking everyody to clarify thier posts on the half-chance that they may have meant something different to what they posted.:?

Sorry, my last post was ambiguous, and you've justifiably misinterpreted. I mean that a researcher could conduct a survey to try and show that theists are on general more intelligent than atheists, or indeed that there is no correlation between IQ and faith. In this case, such a survey, couldn't possibly be seen as an attack on theists.

MetalGear_Ninty

And dont get so ticked off. I didnt accuse you of anything. Like I said I have no problem clarifying. :S

Yeah I got that last bit about "it can go both ways" just a few seconds before you responded.

And yes that is true but given the context (the union in which we are posting, the OP (which is interested in surveys where Christians are included) etc) I personally have little doubt that the surveys in search herewerent going to be used to defend theists.

[QUOTE="MetalGear_Ninty"]Your statement wasn't ambiguous, so I didn't think it needed clarification. I can't go around asking everyody to clarify thier posts on the half-chance that they may have meant something different to what they posted.:?

Sorry, my last post was ambiguous, and you've justifiably misinterpreted. I mean that a researcher could conduct a survey to try and show that theists are on general more intelligent than atheists, or indeed that there is no correlation between IQ and faith. In this case, such a survey, couldn't possibly be seen as an attack on theists.

Teenaged

And dont get so ticked off. I didnt accuse you of anything. Like I said I have no problem clarifying. :S

Also, I don't see why you feel I'm 'ticked-off' so to speak, or that I accused you of accusing me of anything. Why do I feel you're trying to put words in my mouth?

And yes that is true but given the context (the union in which we are posting, the OP (which is interested in surveys where Christians are included) etc) I personally have little doubt that the surveys in search herewerent going to be used to defend theists.

Teenaged

[QUOTE="Teenaged"][QUOTE="MetalGear_Ninty"]Your statement wasn't ambiguous, so I didn't think it needed clarification. I can't go around asking everyody to clarify thier posts on the half-chance that they may have meant something different to what they posted.:?

Sorry, my last post was ambiguous, and you've justifiably misinterpreted. I mean that a researcher could conduct a survey to try and show that theists are on general more intelligent than atheists, or indeed that there is no correlation between IQ and faith. In this case, such a survey, couldn't possibly be seen as an attack on theists.

MetalGear_Ninty

And dont get so ticked off. I didnt accuse you of anything. Like I said I have no problem clarifying. :S

Also, I don't see why you feel I'm 'ticked-off' so to speak, or that I accused you of accusing me of anything. Why do I feel you're trying to put words in my mouth?

I cant even stretch my imagination far enough to see where you felt that I put words in your mouth....

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

And yes that is true but given the context (the union in which we are posting, the OP (which is interested in surveys where Christians are included) etc) I personally have little doubt that the surveys in search herewerent going to be used to defend theists.

MetalGear_Ninty

And you are ignoring the context of the thread itself. My point was not only in regards to the union.

I think you are defending the issue too much if you will go that far to actually claim that there are no anti-theistic intentions behind asking for such surveys in such a union in such manner.

[QUOTE="MetalGear_Ninty"][QUOTE="Teenaged"][QUOTE="MetalGear_Ninty"]Your statement wasn't ambiguous, so I didn't think it needed clarification. I can't go around asking everyody to clarify thier posts on the half-chance that they may have meant something different to what they posted.:?

Sorry, my last post was ambiguous, and you've justifiably misinterpreted. I mean that a researcher could conduct a survey to try and show that theists are on general more intelligent than atheists, or indeed that there is no correlation between IQ and faith. In this case, such a survey, couldn't possibly be seen as an attack on theists.

Teenaged

And dont get so ticked off. I didnt accuse you of anything. Like I said I have no problem clarifying. :S

Also, I don't see why you feel I'm 'ticked-off' so to speak, or that I accused you of accusing me of anything. Why do I feel you're trying to put words in my mouth?

I cant even stretch my imagination far enough to see where you felt that I put words in your mouth....

[QUOTE="MetalGear_Ninty"][QUOTE="Teenaged"]

And yes that is true but given the context (the union in which we are posting, the OP (which is interested in surveys where Christians are included) etc) I personally have little doubt that the surveys in search herewerent going to be used to defend theists.

Teenaged

And you are ignoring the context of the thread itself. My point was not only in regards to the union.

I think you are defending the issue too much if you will go that far to actually claim that there are no anti-theistic intentions behind asking for such surveys in such a union in such manner.

I never said what you are claiming. All I'm saying is that a survey doesn't necessarily have to be anti-theistic, not that a survey would definitely have no ulterior motives.

Look, you're arguing too, does that mean you're defending your position too much too?

[QUOTE="MetalGear_Ninty"][QUOTE="Teenaged"]

And yes that is true but given the context (the union in which we are posting, the OP (which is interested in surveys where Christians are included) etc) I personally have little doubt that the surveys in search herewerent going to be used to defend theists.

Teenaged

And you are ignoring the context of the thread itself. My point was not only in regards to the union.

I think you are defending the issue too much if you will go that far to actually claim that there are no anti-theistic intentions behind asking for such surveys in such a union in such manner.

How about when you implied that I was accusing you of something?MetalGear_Ninty

The only thing that I said that barely comes close to this (merely due to wording) is "I didnt accuse you of anything." And that was me saying it to you because I interpreted your tone like you were ticked off and tried to show you that theres no need to.

Unless you took my interpretation of your tone as an implied accusation.

In which case... wow.

Oh my post was actually moderated for "trolling".:lol:

Ah incase someone's missed it, this is the "trolling" post.

Do you even need any studies?

There are dozens of different belief systems which flatly contradict each other and yet the majority of the world believes in the religion that they were "born" in? When you include the entirety of human history than the amount of contradictory belief systems goes in the thousands. The probablities of being born in the "right" religion are extremely low even ignoring the probablities of all the religions being "wrong".

I consider it extremely foolish to believe in a personal god after being exposed to all sides of the argument, does it mean that all people who believe in one are foolish? Not at all cuz there are several different reasons why people believe in god apart from logic and reasoning. Irrational fear. need for emotional comfort, having been indoctrinated in a way that it's very difficult to come out etc etc. All these things have nothing to do with intelligence in my opinion.

But the problem is that most religious people dont even bother to discover the reason of their existence, they lack hunger and the desire to know the "truth". Now is that something to do with intelligence? Well I dont know but there is surely something "lacking".

I have absolutely no doubt that an average atheist has a higher average IQ than an average christian.

I wonder whoz the insecure lurker wo reports me and then whoz the insecure mod who has absolutely no answer to my points and can only slap a moderation.:lol:

[QUOTE="domatron23"]Hard luck Gambler, take care mate.Gambler_3

If you think the moderation was unfair (I didn't mod it by the way), then try disputing it at 'Ask the mods'.

I won't edit your post, but I'll warn you if a GS mod sees that, then they're at liberty to mod that post too. Your choice.

[QUOTE="Teenaged"][QUOTE="MetalGear_Ninty"][QUOTE="Teenaged"]

And yes that is true but given the context (the union in which we are posting, the OP (which is interested in surveys where Christians are included) etc) I personally have little doubt that the surveys in search herewerent going to be used to defend theists.

MetalGear_Ninty

And you are ignoring the context of the thread itself. My point was not only in regards to the union.

I think you are defending the issue too much if you will go that far to actually claim that there are no anti-theistic intentions behind asking for such surveys in such a union in such manner.

I never said what you are claiming. All I'm saying is that a survey doesn't necessarily have to be anti-theistic, not that a survey would definitely have no ulterior motives.

Look, you're arguing too, does that mean you're defending your position too much too?

I didnt conclude from the length of the discussion or your persistance that you are defending your position too much.

But that you are doing so because you do not aknowledge that the broad context has importance in this occassion.

[QUOTE="MetalGear_Ninty"]How about when you implied that I was accusing you of something?Teenaged

The only thing that I said that barely comes close to this (merely due to wording) is "I didnt accuse you of anything." And that was me saying it to you because I interpreted your tone like you were ticked off and tried to show you that theres no need to.

Unless you took my interpretation of your tone as an implied accusation.

In which case... wow.

[QUOTE="MetalGear_Ninty"][QUOTE="Teenaged"][QUOTE="MetalGear_Ninty"][QUOTE="Teenaged"]

And yes that is true but given the context (the union in which we are posting, the OP (which is interested in surveys where Christians are included) etc) I personally have little doubt that the surveys in search herewerent going to be used to defend theists.

Teenaged

And you are ignoring the context of the thread itself. My point was not only in regards to the union.

I think you are defending the issue too much if you will go that far to actually claim that there are no anti-theistic intentions behind asking for such surveys in such a union in such manner.

I never said what you are claiming. All I'm saying is that a survey doesn't necessarily have to be anti-theistic, not that a survey would definitely have no ulterior motives.

Look, you're arguing too, does that mean you're defending your position too much too?

I didnt conclude from the length of the discussion or your persistance that you are defending your position too much.

But that you are doing so because you do not aknowledge that the broad context has importance in this occassion.

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

[QUOTE="MetalGear_Ninty"]How about when you implied that I was accusing you of something?MetalGear_Ninty

The only thing that I said that barely comes close to this (merely due to wording) is "I didnt accuse you of anything." And that was me saying it to you because I interpreted your tone like you were ticked off and tried to show you that theres no need to.

Unless you took my interpretation of your tone as an implied accusation.

In which case... wow.

Yes I see you arent fussed after its obvious that I didnt.

I'm not trying to deny the importance of context, but I don't see how that changes much in this discussion. Just because some people link atheism with high intelligence does not necessarily mean that someone cannot conduct a surveying conveying the opposite trend, or no correlation at all.MetalGear_Ninty

In which case the context matters and does change much in this discussion.

Why does no one ever care about atheists getting offended??

The bible and quran so openly talk about atheists rotting in hell for all eternity, they talk about all atheists being totally blind and ignorant. Why the **** should I show even a dime of respect to a religion which thinks so "highly" of me?:roll:

I am sorry gabu and teenaged, it seems extremely puzzling to me how you people cant see the obvious logical fallicies in giving religion any undue respect.

@MGN. I have posted a topic in the ask the mods, I know it's not allowed to post but I dont care cuz there's nothing wrong with it. It's upto gamespot what they want, if they want to ban me than so be it I guess.

[QUOTE="MetalGear_Ninty"][QUOTE="Teenaged"]

[QUOTE="MetalGear_Ninty"]How about when you implied that I was accusing you of something?Teenaged

The only thing that I said that barely comes close to this (merely due to wording) is "I didnt accuse you of anything." And that was me saying it to you because I interpreted your tone like you were ticked off and tried to show you that theres no need to.

Unless you took my interpretation of your tone as an implied accusation.

In which case... wow.

Yes I see you arent after its obvious that I didnt.

I found that very odd seeing as in the previous post of mine I posted: 'Sorry, my post was ambiguous, and you justifiably misinterpreted' which pretty much shows that I haven't been angry during this debate.

[QUOTE="MetalGear_Ninty"]I'm not trying to deny the importance of context, but I don't see how that changes much in this discussion. Just because some people link atheism with high intelligence does not necessarily mean that someone cannot conduct a surveying conveying the opposite trend, or no correlation at all.Teenaged

In which case the context matters and does change much in this discussion.

Why does no one ever care about atheists getting offended??

The bible and quran so openly talk about atheists rotting in hell for all eternity, they talk about all atheists being totally blind and ignorant. Why the **** should I show even a dime of respect to a religion which thinks so "highly" of me?:roll:

I am sorry gabu and teenaged, it seems extremely puzzling to me how you people cant see the obvious logical fallicies in giving religion any undue respect.

@MGN. I have posted a topic in the ask the mods, I know it's not allowed to post but I dont care cuz there's nothing wrong with it. It's upto gamespot what they want, if they want to ban me than so be it I guess.

Gambler_3

Such a survey though speaks for all of them. Not just the ones I dont hold respect for.

And dont get me wrong, I am not so passionate about those surveys being posted. I dont care enough to go out of my way or to tell you that you shouldnt post them.

I just posted how I, personally, wouldnt like to use them. I am in no way dictating what others should do.

You're comment: 'Don't get ticked off. I didn't accuse you of anything' is, as I see it, an attempt to paint me out as somehow angry, and furious in this discussion.

I found that very odd seeing as in the previous post of mine I posted: 'Sorry, my post was ambiguous, and you justifiably misinterpreted' which pretty much shows that I haven't been angry during this debate.

MetalGear_Ninty

[QUOTE="Teenaged"][QUOTE="MetalGear_Ninty"]I'm not trying to deny the importance of context, but I don't see how that changes much in this discussion. Just because some people link atheism with high intelligence does not necessarily mean that someone cannot conduct a surveying conveying the opposite trend, or no correlation at all.MetalGear_Ninty

In which case the context matters and does change much in this discussion.

No I didnt intend to paint you as the bad guy of the discussion. I just felt bad in case I had given you the impression that I am accusing you of something and wanted to make my position clear.Teenaged

Then this appears to be a misunderstanding.

Hmmm, I don't know what it is but me and you haven't seemed to be on the same wavelength recently, which has lead to many misunderstandings.

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]No I didnt intend to paint you as the bad guy of the discussion. I just felt bad in case I had given you the impression that I am accusing you of something and wanted to make my position clear.MetalGear_Ninty

Then this appears to be a misunderstanding.

Hmmm, I don't know what it is but me and you haven't seemed to be on the same wavelength recently, which has lead to many misunderstandings.

[QUOTE="MetalGear_Ninty"]

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]No I didnt intend to paint you as the bad guy of the discussion. I just felt bad in case I had given you the impression that I am accusing you of something and wanted to make my position clear.Teenaged

Then this appears to be a misunderstanding.

Hmmm, I don't know what it is but me and you haven't seemed to be on the same wavelength recently, which has lead to many misunderstandings.

Same for me.

[QUOTE="Gambler_3"]

Why does no one ever care about atheists getting offended??

The bible and quran so openly talk about atheists rotting in hell for all eternity, they talk about all atheists being totally blind and ignorant. Why the **** should I show even a dime of respect to a religion which thinks so "highly" of me?:roll:

I am sorry gabu and teenaged, it seems extremely puzzling to me how you people cant see the obvious logical fallicies in giving religion any undue respect.

@MGN. I have posted a topic in the ask the mods, I know it's not allowed to post but I dont care cuz there's nothing wrong with it. It's upto gamespot what they want, if they want to ban me than so be it I guess.

Teenaged

Such a survey though speaks for all of them. Not just the ones I dont hold respect for.

And dont get me wrong, I am not so passionate about those surveys being posted. I dont care enough to go out of my way or to tell you that you shouldnt post them.

I just posted how I, personally, wouldnt like to use them. I am in no way dictating what others should do.

So are you against all forms of generalising cuz they almost always end up not applicable to some people who happen to fall in that general group?:?

The average income of a poor third world country might be offensive to some of their citizens who happen to earn much more than that?:shock:

It is "average" IQ. It doesnt specifically target anyONE.

So are you against all forms of generalising cuz they almost always end up not applicable to some people who happen to fall in that general group?:?

The average income of a poor third world country might be offensive to some of their citizens who happen to earn much more than that?:shock:

Gambler_3

Call me overly suspicious, call me paranoid but I believe that the intentions behind posting something like that is to annoy. And yes I may be hypocritical here since I too would like to use that survey if I wanted to piss someone off and have implicitely offended others in debates by being sarcastic, overly-suggestive etc. Perhaps I draw a line somewhere, but even that wouldnt be enough to rid the impression of a hypocrite. I am not in the mood to psychoanalyse myself further in order to understand why and how I draw the line right now.

Simply put, for me, personally, "attacking" someone's intellectual capacity in such a pretentiously official manner is not for me.

And that, reinforced with (as I mentioned in the first page) my belief that intellectuality is something vague and ambiguous and a trait that I wouldnt feel comfortable with connecting it to any religious status. To me that sounds deterministic and absolute.

Um, this union was much more warm and friendly before I took my hiatus a while back. Can't we just all get along...? :?ChiliDragon

Yet these people expect atheists to be a little less abrasive towards religion.:roll:

There are people over here who follow religions which so openly talk about atheists rotting in hell and being ignorant to the reality. Yet these people expect atheists to be a little less abrasive towards religion.:roll:Gambler_3

[QUOTE="Gambler_3"]There are people over here who follow religions which so openly talk about atheists rotting in hell and being ignorant to the reality. Yet these people expect atheists to be a little less abrasive towards religion.:roll:ChiliDragon

Gabu is a christian and I cant see how a rational christian can get turned off by abrasiveness when their own holy book talks about some of the most vile things in history.

Foxhound is an atheist but seems to have alot of love for hinduism and didnt like it that I was being so anti-hinduism.

Ghokle also seemed to have some problems with my anti-islam stance but I dont really consider him an intellectual so it doesnt really matter.

Btw I wasnt talking about a specific member saying that atheists will rot in hell but the religions that they follow had such a doctrine. I mean really jesus and muhammad can call atheists dumb ignorant people disguising it as "god's infallible word" and it's all cool but if an atheist says the opposite then he is all hateful terrible guy.:roll: