Have you ever converted anyone to atheism?

Tbh, I'm not even sure this is possible. From what I've seen when you start presenting evidence to a theist of the non existence of a "god" they usually dig in their heels with no intention of budging. Mostly, I think they take it as a personal attack as well as a test from God himself. In many cases I'm pretty sure they think that we are doing the work of....SATAN:o. They should know that we neither communicate with, nor believe in the existence of satan or we wouldn't be atheists -_-. Either way I think it's nigh impossible to convince someone that their religion is non sense. Not to say that we can't plant seeds of doubt that may grow at a later date.

Edit: I know the word "converted" in this regard is a misnomer but using it was the simplest way to convey my thoughts.

Over here there are less zealots. Simple logic usually works on them. Why are the other religions not right?

Over here there are less zealots. Simple logic usually works on them. Why are the other religions not right?

psymon100

Your simple logic doesn't work well here.

Westboro Baptist Church levels of indoctrination huh?

I've met people so far gone they ignore the logic.

It's a shame.

I think big a difference between atheist conversions and religious conversions is the re-enforcement needed to maintain the view. With religious conversions there is often explicit mechanisms of re-enforcement. Things like authority figures, repetition, guided group discussions, fear and other methods of overcoming doubt and crises of faith are implicit in religions, but no such thing really exists with atheism.

You could say that surrounding oneself with atheist propaganda, like reading books on it or watching atheist-flavoured Youtube videos might be a way of immersing in atheism, but these practices are often geared towards asking questions than answering them and expressing doubt rather than instilling confidence.

I wouldn't like to think I've converted anyone to atheism, since being an atheist does not necessarily make one a "better" person (nor does being religious either). I prefer to think I offer my opinion and leave it up to others to consider what to believe for themselves. For me, atheism is a profoundly personal  view.

I think big a difference between atheist conversions and religious conversions is the re-enforcement needed to maintain the view. With religious conversions there is often explicit mechanisms of re-enforcement. Things like authority figures, repetition, guided group discussions, fear and other methods of overcoming doubt and crises of faith are implicit in religions, but no such thing really exists with atheism.

You could say that surrounding oneself with atheist propaganda, like reading books on it or watching atheist-flavoured Youtube videos might be a way of immersing in atheism, but these practices are often geared towards asking questions than answering them and expressing doubt rather than instilling confidence.

I wouldn't like to think I've converted anyone to atheism, since being an atheist does not necessarily make one a "better" person (nor does being religious either). I prefer to think I offer my opinion and leave it up to others to consider what to believe for themselves. For me, atheism is a profoundly personal view.

RationalAtheist

Considering that a person my not take it so well to know that there is no higher purpose to life, I've often wondered if it is a diservice to an individual to cause them to doubt their faith as long as they aren't harming anyone...

junglist101

I agree with that. But conversely someone may be liberated from a restrictive adherence and open up to the many and varied different reasons to get the most out of life. We simply just don't know. I certainly do think an atheist perspective is a more open one than any dogmatic religious view though.

Over the internet, I've definitely turned people skeptic. Real life, no

I don't mean to be that guy, but I think the drug culture in certain areas has been helpful in opening up people's eyes to certain facets of their religious beliefs. During my first year of college I smoked a lot of pot, and have done acid three times. It's not that these drugs have led me away from any religious beliefs or anything, but for anybody wanting to lean away from limiting beliefs, the psychical explorations of psychedelics is helpful in fulfilling many aspects of what religion was supposed to fill, but ended up overfilling with arbitrary rules and odd dogma. Psychedelic and psychical self-exploration is a valid alternative for those seeking a deeper meaning in life, one that doesn't involve having to know all the answers, but involves experiencing all that life has to offer through every lens possible.Android339

Well you know what they say....religion is the opium of the people :P

I don't mean to be that guy, but I think the drug culture in certain areas has been helpful in opening up people's eyes to certain facets of their religious beliefs. During my first year of college I smoked a lot of pot, and have done acid three times. It's not that these drugs have led me away from any religious beliefs or anything, but for anybody wanting to lean away from limiting beliefs, the psychical explorations of psychedelics is helpful in fulfilling many aspects of what religion was supposed to fill, but ended up overfilling with arbitrary rules and odd dogma. Psychedelic and psychical self-exploration is a valid alternative for those seeking a deeper meaning in life, one that doesn't involve having to know all the answers, but involves experiencing all that life has to offer through every lens possible.Android339

People certainly find out about themselves in ways that others may not. From my own observations, what I've seen when it comes to drugs and religion, specifically Christianity, is that it creates guilt and people subsequently turn to God for help. Mostly looking to resolve the guilt and/or stop the substance abuse.

junglist101

The 12 Step Program is a common "cure" for alcoholism (which is the most destructive and pervasive drug in my estimation, as well as statistically speaking). It is found at Alcoholics Anonymous groups and has God built into it:

1. We admitted we were powerless over alcohol - that our lives had become unmanageable.

2. Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.

3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.

4. Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.

5. Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.

6. Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character.

7. Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings.

8. Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.

9. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.

10. Continued to take personal inventory, and when we were wrong, promptly admitted it.

11. Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out.

12. Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics, and to practice these principles in all our affairs. 

If I was an alcolholic in need of some help, I think I'd prefer to remain drunk, rather than be confronted with that!

In my younger days, I had one of many psychedelic experiences with a group of friends and one of them never recovered from it. He developed a serious schizophrenic condition (that was probably underlying) triggered by his experiences on the trip.

[QUOTE="junglist101"]

[QUOTE="Android339"]I don't mean to be that guy, but I think the drug culture in certain areas has been helpful in opening up people's eyes to certain facets of their religious beliefs. During my first year of college I smoked a lot of pot, and have done acid three times. It's not that these drugs have led me away from any religious beliefs or anything, but for anybody wanting to lean away from limiting beliefs, the psychical explorations of psychedelics is helpful in fulfilling many aspects of what religion was supposed to fill, but ended up overfilling with arbitrary rules and odd dogma. Psychedelic and psychical self-exploration is a valid alternative for those seeking a deeper meaning in life, one that doesn't involve having to know all the answers, but involves experiencing all that life has to offer through every lens possible.Android339

Again, everyone's different. I've had both positive and negative effects from drugs, unfortunately mostly negative. In my personal experience with weed it was quite difficult to quit. It took me several attempts before I could. I think it would be fair to say that it is best not to do any drug on a regular basis, including alcohol. Never took acid although I've tried mushrooms. Not much of a spiritual experience for me. The most profoundly any drug has changed me was the first few times I took ecstasy. Mostly in a positive way although like most things too much or too often is never good.

[QUOTE="junglist101"]

People certainly find out about themselves in ways that others may not. From my own observations, what I've seen when it comes to drugs and religion, specifically Christianity, is that it creates guilt and people subsequently turn to God for help. Mostly looking to resolve the guilt and/or stop the substance abuse.

RationalAtheist

The 12 Step Program is a common "cure" for alcoholism (which is the most destructive and pervasive drug in my estimation, as well as statistically speaking). It is found at Alcoholics Anonymous groups and has God built into it:

1. We admitted we were powerless over alcohol - that our lives had become unmanageable.

2. Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.

3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.

4. Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.

5. Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.

6. Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character.

7. Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings.

8. Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.

9. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.

10. Continued to take personal inventory, and when we were wrong, promptly admitted it.

11. Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out.

12. Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics, and to practice these principles in all our affairs.

If I was an alcolholic in need of some help, I think I'd prefer to remain drunk, rather than be confronted with that!

In my younger days, I had one of many psychedelic experiences with a group of friends and one of them never recovered from it. He developed a serious schizophrenic condition (that was probably underlying) triggered by his experiences on the trip.

Just curious, what (if any) was your religious affiliation?

I don't think I've ever "converted" anyone, but I have had a lot of accusatory questions thrown my way. People who are angry, almost vehement that I could deny their God. That, or just confused how someone could just not believe in something that, to them, appears to be common sense.

My problem is that I don't make sense to people. I don't smoke, I rarely if ever drink, and I've never done a drug in my life. And I'm an atheist. That's the part that trips people out. People assume that without God, you have no code. No morals. No reason whatsoever to be a good person. I try to explain that I simply treat others as I would like to be treated. It's not that hard to not be a dick.

I actually told a co-worker today that I was an atheist. She was apparently a born-again Baptist. She was very steadfast in her beliefs (as I am in my non-belief). I tried to codify my reasoning in a way that wasn't offensive, but one of her viewpoints was a prime example of why I don't believe: Religion makes people incredible judgmental. She mentioned gay marriage and said that she didn't agree with it. I said, "If God has such an issue with gay people, He should stop making them," to which she replied that she believed that homosexuality was a choice.

Now I may come off as a bit of a hypocrite here, but if people didn't invest so heavily in religion then things like gay marriage, abortion, and other so-called "moral issues" would be looked at from a more logical point of view. People get chained to their beliefs and can't think for themselves. And I always have to say, "So if God will judge all these people accordingly anyway...then why do you care? If God exists, He doesn't need you to do his job for him. Unless of course you don't believe He's omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent...which seems likely since you seem to love telling people how to live their lives."

I've been thinking recently that there is not really enough of a difference between logic as it applies to a religious person's views and it's difference to the logic that leads to an atheist view. Logic is the justification of a particular reasoning. I don't think it is a panacea or significant differentiator as it applies to reaching decisions.

The logic used is inductive logic, unlike the deduction used in maths. So much scientific endeavour has also been founded on inference - on the generealised probability that a particular statement will be true. It is only those inferences that turn out to be correct under testing that get the attention and the many more that don't pan out are cast out into obscurity.

I'm not keen on logic being paraded as some badge of honour on either side, since I don't see it as a choice that can be ignored - I see it more as an opportunity to show why people think like they do that is rarely taken.

Sorry for seeming contentious and please don't take this as some personal attack.