Have you read this book? I thought it was pretty good, but didn't really convey any new information just summed up arguments for atheism to me. Wondering what your guys thoughts on this was.SimpJee
[QUOTE="SimpJee"]Have you read this book? I thought it was pretty good, but didn't really convey any new information just summed up arguments for atheism to me. Wondering what your guys thoughts on this was.THUMPTABLE
Let us know what parts and we can talk about it :P :D
I have no desire to read this. I think Dawkins promotes religious intolerance from what I've read on him and how he spins facts on how Christians attack abortion clinics is beyond frightening. He should stick to biology in my opinion and keep his beliefs to himself.Genetic_Code
How did he spin Christian attacks on abortion clinics? Beyond frightening, huh?
How did he spin Christian attacks on abortion clinics? Beyond frightening, huh?
SimpJee
I don't really know. I was just reading what Dracargen had to say about his book once. I have no actual proof otherwise, but I would've thought that these abortion clinic bombings would be more reported in the U.S. if they actually happened.
[QUOTE="SimpJee"]How did he spin Christian attacks on abortion clinics? Beyond frightening, huh?
Genetic_Code
I don't really know. I was just reading what Dracargen had to say about his book once. I have no actual proof otherwise, but I would've thought that these abortion clinic bombings would be more reported in the U.S. if they actually happened.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion-related_violence
See no evil, hear no evil, talk no evil.
[QUOTE="SimpJee"]How did he spin Christian attacks on abortion clinics? Beyond frightening, huh?
Genetic_Code
I don't really know. I was just reading what Dracargen had to say about his book once. I have no actual proof otherwise, but I would've thought that these abortion clinic bombings would be more reported in the U.S. if they actually happened.
Dude Dracargen is one of those people that likes to cite hardcore Christian writings as sources, read or ask for his sources next time. Do that most of the time heh :p
Dude Dracargen is one of those people that likes to cite hardcore Christian writings as sources, read or ask for his sources next time. Do that most of the time heh :p
SimpJee
Sorry then. I always though he was a bit more open-minded.
I can't anymore anyway, since he's banned. :(
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion-related_violence
See no evil, hear no evil, talk no evil.
felixlynch777
From that link: "A recent act was an arson at an abortion clinic in Albuquerque, New Mexico on December 6, 2007"
O_O I live in Albuquerque, New Mexico!
[QUOTE="SimpJee"]Dude Dracargen is one of those people that likes to cite hardcore Christian writings as sources, read or ask for his sources next time. Do that most of the time heh :p
Genetic_Code
Sorry then. I always though he was a bit more open-minded.
I can't anymore anyway, since he's banned. :(
What? Why?
Regarding The God Delusion, I thought it a little too simplistic. It's not very hard for theists to argue against it, IMO. Blind Watchmaker and Selfish Gene are better (yes they are primarily biology focused, but there is plenty of atheist thought in these as well, albeit more subtle).
[QUOTE="Genetic_Code"]
I can't anymore anyway, since he's banned. :(
Junkie_man
What? Why?
He's been banned for almost two months, if not longer. I don't remember anyone coming up with a reason why, so it's not safe to assume.
[QUOTE="Junkie_man"]
[QUOTE="Genetic_Code"]
I can't anymore anyway, since he's banned. :(
Genetic_Code
What? Why?
He's been banned for almost two months, if not longer. I don't remember anyone coming up with a reason why, so it's not safe to assume.
I think he kept on sending messages and harassing female gamespot users.
I think he kept on sending messages and harassing female gamespot users.
felixlynch777
That doesn't sound like him. If that were the case, then shame on him.
[QUOTE="Genetic_Code"][QUOTE="Junkie_man"]
[QUOTE="Genetic_Code"]
I can't anymore anyway, since he's banned. :(
felixlynch777
What? Why?
He's been banned for almost two months, if not longer. I don't remember anyone coming up with a reason why, so it's not safe to assume.
I think he kept on sending messages and harassing female gamespot users.
Que? That doesn't sound quite right.
I seem to remember hearing that his last mod was for saying that his mother would kill him for doing something. Seems like he just had a pile of moderations and that was the straw that broke the camel's back.
[QUOTE="felixlynch777"]I think he kept on sending messages and harassing female gamespot users.
Genetic_Code
That doesn't sound like him. If that were the case, then shame on him.
It's either one of the two nobody knows really, it's a mystery of Gamespot.
I've not read the book but I have seen his two-part documentary. They were very good indeed.luke1889
I agree. I think he comes across better, at least to theists, than in "The God Delusion".
I have no desire to read the book, I don't like Dawkins too much.123625
Have you read any of his other books? I'd recommend them if you were interested in evolution and prepared to filter out the atheist overtones. I particularly enjoyed The Blind Watchmaker.
P.S. 1000 posts, nice.
[QUOTE="123625"]I have no desire to read the book, I don't like Dawkins too much.Junkie_man
Have you read any of his other books? I'd recommend them if you were interested in evolution and prepared to filter out the atheist overtones. I particularly enjoyed The Blind Watchmaker.
P.S. 1000 posts, nice.
Evolution as a subject in general bores the hell out of me. I don't reject or accept it, nor do i really care if it happened or not. If his books on evolution have atheist tones to them, I don't think I want to read them. Just a strict scientific book.
[QUOTE="Junkie_man"][QUOTE="123625"]I have no desire to read the book, I don't like Dawkins too much.123625
Have you read any of his other books? I'd recommend them if you were interested in evolution and prepared to filter out the atheist overtones. I particularly enjoyed The Blind Watchmaker.
P.S. 1000 posts, nice.
Evolution as a subject in general bores the hell out of me. I don't reject or accept it, nor do i really care if it happened or not. If his books on evolution have atheist tones to them, I don't think I want to read them. Just a strict scientific book.
Stephen Jay Gould would be more appropriate then, though if you aren't interested in evolution you would find his books very tedious.
Dawkins should stick to biology rather than trying to disprove the disprovable. He also comes across as though he has a vendetta against God, and religion in general. Sometimes people are dependant upon it and he just seems totally intolerant. What makes his belief more correct than anyone elses?Lansdowne5
The only intolerance I find in the book is of the crazy Christians that go around shooting Abortion doctors and scaring the crap out of kids with the whole "YOU WILL ROT IN HELL FOR ALL ETERNITY FOR [a 'sinful' action]"
He does list the reasons for why Christianity (and not just Christianity) is less reasonable/logical/whatever. If you think that's intolerant, going to be hard discussing anything with you on this board.
[QUOTE="Lansdowne5"]Dawkins should stick to biology rather than trying to disprove the disprovable. He also comes across as though he has a vendetta against God, and religion in general. Sometimes people are dependant upon it and he just seems totally intolerant. What makes his belief more correct than anyone elses?SimpJee
The only intolerance I find in the book is of the crazy Christians that go around shooting Abortion doctors and scaring the crap out of kids with the whole "YOU WILL ROT IN HELL FOR ALL ETERNITY FOR [a 'sinful' action]"
He does list the reasons for why Christianity (and not just Christianity) is less reasonable/logical/whatever. If you think that's intolerant, going to be hard discussing anything with you on this board.
Who on Earth goes round and scares young children by saying they're going to hell? Because they're certainly not real Christians if they do.
I'm talking about him being intolerant of other's beliefs, I'm not talking about his reasoning and logic.
[QUOTE="Lansdowne5"]I'm talking about him being intolerant of other's beliefs, I'm not talking about his reasoning and logic.
SimpJee
How is he intolerant of other's beliefs? Because he refutes them?
No. An example is when he went into a School in the UK and he went into a Science class and there was this muslim pupil there. And he started talking to the class about Evolution, and this Muslim pupil said, "But the Holy Book says that Allah. . . ." and basically Dawkins just blatently said to the kid that the Qu'ran was a load of rubbish and that God doesn't exist. See what I mean?
[QUOTE="SimpJee"][QUOTE="Lansdowne5"]I'm talking about him being intolerant of other's beliefs, I'm not talking about his reasoning and logic.
Lansdowne5
How is he intolerant of other's beliefs? Because he refutes them?
No. An example is when he went into a School in the UK and he went into a Science class and there was this muslim pupil there. And he started talking to the class about Evolution, and this Muslim pupil said, "But the Holy Book says that Allah. . . ." and basically Dawkins just blatently said to the kid that the Qu'ran was a load of rubbish and that God doesn't exist. See what I mean?
May be he was just having a bad day.
[QUOTE="Lansdowne5"][QUOTE="SimpJee"][QUOTE="Lansdowne5"]I'm talking about him being intolerant of other's beliefs, I'm not talking about his reasoning and logic.
7guns
How is he intolerant of other's beliefs? Because he refutes them?
No. An example is when he went into a School in the UK and he went into a Science class and there was this muslim pupil there. And he started talking to the class about Evolution, and this Muslim pupil said, "But the Holy Book says that Allah. . . ." and basically Dawkins just blatently said to the kid that the Qu'ran was a load of rubbish and that God doesn't exist. See what I mean?
May be he was just having a bad day.
That's just one example. He's done it hundreds of times to Christians, Hindus, Sikhs etc.
That's just one example. He's done it hundreds of times to Christians, Hindus, Sikhs etc.
Lansdowne5
Oh, I thought we were talking about the information in the book not what he's done in RL. Yeah he's on the more extreme end of atheism, calling people out and being confrontational. You certainly have your share of those people as well, actually a whole area, the Bible Belt, has a lot of those types.
[QUOTE="SimpJee"][QUOTE="Lansdowne5"]I'm talking about him being intolerant of other's beliefs, I'm not talking about his reasoning and logic.
Lansdowne5
How is he intolerant of other's beliefs? Because he refutes them?
No. An example is when he went into a School in the UK and he went into a Science class and there was this muslim pupil there. And he started talking to the class about Evolution, and this Muslim pupil said, "But the Holy Book says that Allah. . . ." and basically Dawkins just blatently said to the kid that the Qu'ran was a load of rubbish and that God doesn't exist. See what I mean?
I think that might be an exaggeration. I don't think he went off on a tirade against theism, just possibly creationism, and we should not respect or be tolerant of views that are just wrong according to empirical evidence, regardless of culture.
[QUOTE="Lansdowne5"][QUOTE="SimpJee"][QUOTE="Lansdowne5"]I'm talking about him being intolerant of other's beliefs, I'm not talking about his reasoning and logic.
Junkie_man
How is he intolerant of other's beliefs? Because he refutes them?
No. An example is when he went into a School in the UK and he went into a Science class and there was this muslim pupil there. And he started talking to the class about Evolution, and this Muslim pupil said, "But the Holy Book says that Allah. . . ." and basically Dawkins just blatently said to the kid that the Qu'ran was a load of rubbish and that God doesn't exist. See what I mean?
I think that might be an exaggeration. I don't think he went off on a tirade against theism, just possibly creationism, and we should not respect or be tolerant of views that are just wrong according to empirical evidence, regardless of culture.
Sorry? You're saying that we should not be tolerant of others views and beliefs? :?
And yes, he did go off on a tirade against theism, as he always does.
[QUOTE="Lansdowne5"]That's just one example. He's done it hundreds of times to Christians, Hindus, Sikhs etc.
SimpJee
Oh, I thought we were talking about the information in the book not what he's done in RL. Yeah he's on the more extreme end of atheism, calling people out and being confrontational. You certainly have your share of those people as well, actually a whole area, the Bible Belt, has a lot of those types.
No, I merely stated why I had no intention of reading the book and you argued against my post.
Atheists do love to use generalizations don't they? I'm not putting him in with the "atheist" bracket, and I'm not using him as an example to show why atheism is bad. I'm simply showing you why I am not going to read his book.
No, I merely stated why I had no intention of reading the book and you argued against my post.
Atheists do love to use generalizations don't they? I'm not putting him in with the "atheist" bracket, and I'm not using him as an example to show why atheism is bad. I'm simply showing you why I am not going to read his book.
Lansdowne5
I don't see the generalization in my post you refer to, but by all means point it out to me.
Anyway, I do not think it would be a bad idea for you to read the book (you can find it at a library so you don't have to give him your money). Since it really is a summation of arguments against religion, so it would give you exactly the logic you're up against when you try to proselytize to people.
I don't see the generalization in my post you refer to, but by all means point it out to me.
SimpJee
I think he was referring to your mention of the Bible Belt, unless you think I'm an evangelical Christian because I live there. :P
[QUOTE="SimpJee"]I don't see the generalization in my post you refer to, but by all means point it out to me.
Genetic_Code
I think he was referring to your mention of the Bible Belt, unless you think I'm an evangelical Christian because I live there. :P
I wrote "has a lot" of these types. Not all.
I was once planning on reading it, but then I got to know Dr. Dawkins a little better and then decided not to.TenP
Ohoho? Tell more. :P
Even atheists consider Dawkins' book to be full of it (read that whole thing; it's awesome). I'm sure the members of this board are familiar with Antony Flew. . . .he doesn't like Dawkins very much, either. Of course, Dawkins simply accuses Flew of senility and continues with his pompous hot-air-blowing.
When somebody writes a book refuting him, Hitchens, Harris or Dennet, Dawkins merely labels them as "fleas" and pushes their works aside, not giving them any credit and encouraging his cult following to do the same (this is inhibiting free thought, Dicky).
Dawkins isn't worth the time or money spent on him. His colleagues, Hitchens and Harris, are even worse.
Well I haven't gotten that into knowing who Dawkins is. I do not care for Hitchens which is why I haven't read his book, I don't like him or his writing style. But Harris on the other hand is a different subject. I don't think he should be lumped in there with them, nor should his book. It's very much a book, written in layman's terms, about all religion's equally and their problems. I would recommend it, and have passed it on to several theist friends who liked it, but left Dawkins, which I wasn't nuts about, on the shelf.btaylor2404
If I had to put those four on a hierarchy of most favorable in terms of scholarly work, it would go like this, in descending order:
1. Dennett
2. Dawkins
3. Hitchens
4. Harris
Harris makes absolutely wild claims in his books, where he makes claims that are actually somewhat original to him (most of his arguments are thousands of years old). He demonstrates clear inability to distinguish the importance of the Testaments to Christians, a big must for someone who actually wants to argue with them.
Rather than refer to a scholar from the past centuries, he makes one reference to Tim LaHaye and thirteen references to Hitler Himmler, and Hess, with six pages devoted to Noam Chomsky when explaining exactly what Christians believe. Because, after all, no one is more suited to explain the Christian faith quite so well as an elderly author of pop religious fantasies, a trio of dead Nazis, and a left-wing Jewish linguist.
And it's not just Christianity to which he directs his ignorance. Harris begins The End of Faith by strongly implying that almost all suicide bombers are Muslim. The Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam, who are not Muslims but a Marxist liberation front that committed 168 of the 273 suicide bombings that took place between 1980 and 2000, have historically been the leading practitioners of suicide bombing. Harris later tries to cover up his mistake by stating that the Tigers are Hindu, so therefore his point still stands that religion is bad. Nevermind that the Tiger explicitly claim secular status, and this is demonstrated by the recent death of their chief strategist, who was Roman Catholic.
He also blames religion on the deaths of literally "millions" of people in Palestine, the Balkans, Northern Ireland, Kashmir, Sudan, Nigeria, Ethiopia and Eritrea, Sri Lanka, Indonesia and the Caucasus in the past ten years, even though there have been no more than 750,000 deaths in those areas combined in the past 14 years according to The Timor-Leste Commission for Reception, Truth, and Reconciliation. In addition, these numbers also pale in comparison to the 1.5 million deaths in the Red Terror of the atheistic Derg regime.
And where would we be without the argument that religions are inherently intolerant? But considering the fact that Harris lives comfortably and unmolested in a country where 150 million people are very religious, with the other hundred million being a bit more moderate, that's a bit of a weird claim to make.
Which leads me to my next point: Harris literally blames the religious moderates for the actions of the religious extremists, applying the extreme actions of suicide bombings and crusades and so on to all religious people, a logical absurdity that most Kindergarten children know not to make.
He also makes a correlation with Red states and Blue states, as well as their morality. Red States are full of theists and have terrible crime rates, while Blue states don't have many theists and have great moral lifestyIes. Not only is this absolutely absurd (most Democrats are Christians just like Republicans), it's also invoking a "correlation = causation" argument.
I could go on for days at the intellectual bankruptcy of Harris. This just scratches the surface.
Of course, this all talks about The End of Faith and Letters to a Christian Nation, both of which are absurd, but I don't know what book of his you're actually referring to.
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