You don't honestly believe that any one consele truly WON last generation...

To answer you more specifically, Eroica, I would not be comfortable with only a Wii. I very gladly had a PC, Wii, and PS3 last gen and it worked for me.

But I think we need to define what we mean by objectivity.

Objectively, the gen for Sony was a disaster. They picked up towards the end. But the launch and first few years were much less than Sony expected.

Objectively, the gen for MS was very good. They didn't come out financially on top, but they took a bunch of market share from Sony. And MS lead the way into online gaming and really set the standards for it (console-wise).

Objectively, Nintendo made the most bank. They had a bad 3rd party library and a bad online system, but it doesn't matter because their success and influence cannot be denied.

From a gaming perspective, that means little to me. What matters to me is games.

organic_machine

Exactly. I would have gone insane if I only owned a Wii last gen. I think games need to be taken into more consideration when we consider who "won" each gen, since the sales of the console do not hae nearly as much impact on us than the games do. The 360 library destroys the Wii's and is also ahead of the PS3's by a considerable magin (although PS3 does have better exclusives imo).

[QUOTE="DarkLink77"]

[QUOTE="TheEroica"] I listed sales as a pro in the wii catagory, though I am quite clear tha in the realm of what we consider to be the best aspects of gaming, GAMES are important too, and thus will call out the wii for suffering by comparison.TheEroica

Talking library is all well and good, but most of those games don't hold up. Sure, the PS1 had a great library overall, but outside of the stuff Square made, pretty much all of it is garbage now. I'd take the N64's library over the PS1's right now any day of the week.

So yeah, bad library overall? Sure. But you don't buy Nintendo consoles for overall library. You buy it for Nintendo games and the occasional third party masterpiece (Resident Evil 4). So it's kind of a moot point.

[QUOTE="Heil68"]That's all that matters in the end. Jaysonguy

No, who has the most money matters in the end

Everyone understands this is a business right? lol

[QUOTE="TheEroica"]

[QUOTE="Jaysonguy"]

Ok, so the TC is all about "feelings" and "thoughts".

Here's the facts

Nintendo sold 25 million more units then the other companies

They won, and whatever Oprah gave you courage to say about how you feel about it doesn't change that.

Jaysonguy

Hold me.... I just want you to share your feelings.

I deal with facts, you're the one that says there's other criteria to determine who won.

Are you also one of those people who thinks that money isn't the most important thing on Earth?

Maybe going to urge someone to recycle later?

Some of my favourite consoles ever like Gamecube and Saturn came last in their respective gens but it doesn't really matter in the end.

Aljosa23

Of course it matters, if they sold well they would have been better supported and the designs for the generations that followed those consoles would have taken pieces from them.

They failed so a new direction was taken.

[QUOTE="Jaysonguy"]

[QUOTE="TheEroica"]

Hold me.... I just want you to share your feelings.

ultraking

I deal with facts, you're the one that says there's other criteria to determine who won.

Are you also one of those people who thinks that money isn't the most important thing on Earth?

Maybe going to urge someone to recycle later?

Ok, another person who doesn't understand this is a business and feelings have no place in the conversation

No matter how you feel about it 25 million more never changes.

[QUOTE="TheEroica"]

[QUOTE="Jaysonguy"]

Ok, so the TC is all about "feelings" and "thoughts".

Here's the facts

Nintendo sold 25 million more units then the other companies

They won, and whatever Oprah gave you courage to say about how you feel about it doesn't change that.

Jaysonguy

Hold me.... I just want you to share your feelings.

I deal with facts, you're the one that says there's other criteria to determine who won.

Are you also one of those people who thinks that money isn't the most important thing on Earth?

Maybe going to urge someone to recycle later?

:lol: I could read you flail at assumptions all day brother... anything else you want to take a stab at about me?

Or, maybe I'm suggesting an objective view on some things that effect us, rather than sales that really don't.

[QUOTE="Jaysonguy"]

[QUOTE="Heil68"]That's all that matters in the end. rjdofu

No, who has the most money matters in the end

Everyone understands this is a business right? lol

Seriously?

That's a joke right?

So you're only able to do basic math if you have a stake in numbers?

[QUOTE="ultraking"]

[QUOTE="Jaysonguy"]

I deal with facts, you're the one that says there's other criteria to determine who won.

Are you also one of those people who thinks that money isn't the most important thing on Earth?

Maybe going to urge someone to recycle later?

Jaysonguy

Ok, another person who doesn't understand this is a business and feelings have no place in the conversation

No matter how you feel about it 25 million more never changes.

[QUOTE="Aljosa23"]

Some of my favourite consoles ever like Gamecube and Saturn came last in their respective gens but it doesn't really matter in the end.

Jaysonguy

Of course it matters, if they sold well they would have been better supported and the designs for the generations that followed those consoles would have taken pieces from them.

They failed so a new direction was taken.

For me the end user, I think Sony won because of the sheer volume and quality of exclusives that appeal to me. That's all that matters in the end. Heil68

Objectively speaking? For the most part this isn't going to end well since everyone bases there thoughts off of one thing and don't bank enough on the other, but I do understand your thoughts on the matter Eroica.

For me, I think Nintendo and Microsoft won when it comes to sales, while nobody really won when it comes to games. I understand that its all your opinion on games so thats why nobody won overall. Now if we were to delve a bit deeper you could also say that libraries are a moot point for Nintendo considering that most people buy it for first party. Although the issue with this thought for some people is that for others who have experienced otherwise, they may feel that their game amounts per gen and how much gaming they can achieve on the others places them as higher priority and overall think that the Ninty library really is lacking on multiple quality games. You can go either way really especially if you are a one console kind of person, which I do know of a few mainly because gaming is an expensive hobby. Now if you own all the consoles you may still judge the Wii's library is stale even still (you still are comparing libraries and even if Ninty is better quality maybe you see more slightly lesser quality games as better, also an opinion), but its less of an outlier.

Now if you were to also consider the matter of future gens... Ninty is behind the others in most concepts of gaming, while the others are at the right spot mainly because they actually pioneered it for consoles imo. That doesn't mean they have fallen behind on being future proof when it comes to sales since we can also say that Ninty taking the low road may help them in a rather faltering ecosystem where gaming production is getting more pricey by the day. We can never know though but as you can see you can place this situation into an economic and general preference scenario just like the games versus sales thing that we do on here.

Or, maybe I'm suggesting an objective view on some things that effect us, rather than sales that really don't.

TheEroica

OK, you're just kidding right?

You really don't understand?

Sales are the only thing that matter and want to know why?

No one works for free and no one supports things for free.

That game you love and cherish so much? Well it sold like *@# and they're not making any more.

That game you hate? Sold 70 million units, there's going to be sequels all throughout the next decade.

Also you're using the word objective wrong, pick another one to use or use that one correctly.

[QUOTE="TheEroica"][QUOTE="DarkLink77"] I'll bet money that Nintendo's first party line-up on the Wii will hold up better as games than 95% of the games released this gen, especially Sony's first party line-up which built itself around production values.

Talking library is all well and good, but most of those games don't hold up. Sure, the PS1 had a great library overall, but outside of the stuff Square made, pretty much all of it is garbage now. I'd take the N64's library over the PS1's right now any day of the week.

So yeah, bad library overall? Sure. But you don't buy Nintendo consoles for overall library. You buy it for Nintendo games and the occasional third party masterpiece (Resident Evil 4). So it's kind of a moot point.

DarkLink77

Now if you were to also consider the matter of future gens... Ninty is behind the others in most concepts of gaming, while the others are at the right spot mainly because they actually pioneered it for consoles imo. AznbkdX

[QUOTE="TheEroica"]

Or, maybe I'm suggesting an objective view on some things that effect us, rather than sales that really don't.

Jaysonguy

OK, you're just kidding right?

You really don't understand?

Sales are the only thing that matter and want to know why?

No one works for free and no one supports things for free.

That game you love and cherish so much? Well it sold like *@# and they're not making any more.

That game you hate? Sold 70 million units, there's going to be sequels all throughout the next decade.

Also you're using the word objective wrong, pick another one to use or use that one correctly.

[QUOTE="Jaysonguy"]

[QUOTE="ultraking"]in bold: great way to start a conversation.. not really

ultraking

Ok, another person who doesn't understand this is a business and feelings have no place in the conversation

No matter how you feel about it 25 million more never changes.

Thank you but I am arrogant, I don't really mince words that much. I appreciate your help though (I'm actually being sincere there in case I don't come off as such)

All this "oh well how did it effect you?" nonsense is exactly that, bottom line in the real world when we talk who won we look at what business made the most money.

That was their goal, anyone who thinks that their objective was to make great games or great hardware or anything of the sort is wrong, their goal was to sell the most and make the most money.

[QUOTE="AznbkdX"]Now if you were to also consider the matter of future gens... Ninty is behind the others in most concepts of gaming, while the others are at the right spot mainly because they actually pioneered it for consoles imo. DarkLink77

Read the rest. I said at the end that it was also a general preference as well.

Oh and I wasn't talking about literal pioneering in the sense that they started it, but that those consoles are the first to drag us into the HD age and what have you.

[QUOTE="DarkLink77"][QUOTE="AznbkdX"]Now if you were to also consider the matter of future gens... Ninty is behind the others in most concepts of gaming, while the others are at the right spot mainly because they actually pioneered it for consoles imo. AznbkdX

Read the rest. I said at the end that it was also a general preference as well.

[QUOTE="ultraking"]

[QUOTE="Jaysonguy"]

Ok, another person who doesn't understand this is a business and feelings have no place in the conversation

No matter how you feel about it 25 million more never changes.

Jaysonguy

Thank you but I am arrogant, I don't really mince words that much. I appreciate your help though (I'm actually being sincere there in case I don't come off as such)

All this "oh well how did it effect you?" nonsense is exactly that, bottom line in the real world when we talk who won we look at what business made the most money.

That was their goal, anyone who thinks that their objective was to make great games or great hardware or anything of the sort is wrong, their goal was to sell the most and make the most money.

Or, maybe I'm suggesting an objective view on some things that effect us, rather than sales that really don't.TheEroica

Here's where my issue is: When you say "things that effect us," that goes against the very idea of objective. How something affects me is inherently subjective. So what you are saying is we must objectively argue something subjective. To objectivly look at the console war, we have to dviroce our argument from our own perception and look at things as they are.

And this is a business, so it's all about sales. That is objective truth. Sales have very little impact on me as a gamer. And the impact on me is where I agree with all of your points. Each system has its pro's and con's and it's up to us to decide which ones we'd want to purchase.

But again I take issue at your use of the word 'objective' here. It derails the entire argument.

[QUOTE="organic_machine"]

Well from a bsuiness perspective, Nintendo won.

From a gamers perspective, I think that nobody won.

blue_hazy_basic

[QUOTE="Heil68"]That's all that matters in the end. Jaysonguy

No, who has the most money matters in the end

Everyone understands this is a business right? lol

sales wise-ninty won

quality wise- just check the AAA exclusives.....(A-AAA if thats your thing)for the actual count or do it percentage wise

thats how i see it.....

and eroica....why do you have malak on your sig? is this a quote malak said?

[QUOTE="AznbkdX"]

[QUOTE="DarkLink77"] wut.DarkLink77

Read the rest. I said at the end that it was also a general preference as well.

I guess you can say that as a general preference they weren't behind depending on how you look at it, which is why all this stuff is hard to extrapolate. For some gamers they don't believe that the motion control technology (at least I think thats what you mean) really are any way to step up your game. Traditionalist find no solace in most innovation imo and would rather just play there games without any hassle unless it meaningfully adds a step up in gaming. Ninty may have done this for some, but maybe they didn't since their controls may have been flimsy or unused much of the time for the others. It really depends what you think is innovative or not which is why I still think its general preference overall.

If you are talking about games, then once again some may find Nintendo's style a bit daunting compared to several game series that have come out these last few years. There have been many devs that stepped up to the plate, so maybe others feel that Ninty isn't cutting it in comparison due to the shift in preferences. This can attribute to the no games attitude, kiddy games, and all that garbage, which some actually believe in or justify for any reason.

yeah but game wise wii lost by a high margin by not having multiplats , the best games this genAmnesiaHaze

That's very debateable. My whole point is to define our terms, to separate objectivity from subjectivity.

What you just said is debatable, but ultimately subjective. Sales and revenue are the only truly objective arguments we can make here.

I will say from a subjective standpoint that you were correct before the comma, and incorrect after it. My top five conist of PC games and Nintendo first party games.

[QUOTE="TheEroica"]

Or, maybe I'm suggesting an objective view on some things that effect us, rather than sales that really don't.

Jaysonguy

OK, you're just kidding right?

You really don't understand?

Sales are the only thing that matter and want to know why?

No one works for free and no one supports things for free.

That game you love and cherish so much? Well it sold like *@# and they're not making any more.

That game you hate? Sold 70 million units, there's going to be sequels all throughout the next decade.

Also you're using the word objective wrong, pick another one to use or use that one correctly.

As for the importance of sales... sure, the sales mean something... as I've stated this entire thread. That doesn't mean that they are the defacto answer to what console won.

I say 360 for the following reasons :

1. Came from nowhere against companies that had 20 years to entrench themselves who had %90 market share, ate both their lunches and left a dookie in their pools.

2. The others then frantically started adding "trophies" and realizing that third-party developers exist. In a final humiliation, Playstation releases a transluscent DONG that people are embarassed to have in their house to compete with Kinect.

3. The only console this gen that came out as a COMPETENT product without lying to the customers about making their children exercise, or putting ridiculous claims about having to work 2 jobs to buy a PS3 because it's JUST SOOO POWERFUL.

I'm not saying Microsoft won, cuz let's face it, they're a crappy company that abuses their fans.

But the 360 as a product? Perfect in every way until they dropped core and turned the GUI into a chinese phonebook.

[QUOTE="TheEroica"]Or, maybe I'm suggesting an objective view on some things that effect us, rather than sales that really don't.organic_machine

Here's where my issue is: When you say "things that effect us," that goes against the very idea of objective. How something affects me is inherently subjective. So what you are saying is we must objectively argue something subjective. To objectivly look at the console war, we have to dviroce our argument from our own perception and look at things as they are.

And this is a business, so it's all about sales. That is objective truth. Sales have very little impact on me as a gamer. And the impact on me is where I agree with all of your points. Each system has its pro's and con's and it's up to us to decide which ones we'd want to purchase.

But again I take issue at your use of the word 'objective' here. It derails the entire argument.

[QUOTE="DarkLink77"][QUOTE="AznbkdX"]

Read the rest. I said at the end that it was also a general preference as well.

AznbkdX

I guess you can say that as a general preference they weren't behind depending on how you look at it, which is why all this stuff is hard to extrapolate. For some gamers they don't believe that the motion control technology (at least I think thats what you mean) really are any way to step up your game. Traditionalist find no solace in most innovation imo and would rather just play there games without any hassle unless it meaningfully adds a step up in gaming. Ninty may have done this for some, but maybe they didn't since their controls may have been flimsy or unused much of the time for the others. It really depends what you think is innovative or not which is why I still think its general preference overall.

If you are talking about games, then once again some may find Nintendo's style a bit daunting compared to several game series that have come out these last few years. There have been many devs that stepped up to the plate, so maybe others feel that Ninty isn't cutting it in comparison due to the shift in preferences. This can attribute to the no games attitude, kiddy games, and all that garbage, which some actually believe in or justify for any reason.

[QUOTE="organic_machine"]

[QUOTE="TheEroica"]Or, maybe I'm suggesting an objective view on some things that effect us, rather than sales that really don't.TheEroica

Here's where my issue is: When you say "things that effect us," that goes against the very idea of objective. How something affects me is inherently subjective. So what you are saying is we must objectively argue something subjective. To objectivly look at the console war, we have to dviroce our argument from our own perception and look at things as they are.

And this is a business, so it's all about sales. That is objective truth. Sales have very little impact on me as a gamer. And the impact on me is where I agree with all of your points. Each system has its pro's and con's and it's up to us to decide which ones we'd want to purchase.

But again I take issue at your use of the word 'objective' here. It derails the entire argument.

This is what I was thinking as well. I think most of you are focusing a little too much on that word. The context is what really matters here.

To answer you more specifically, Eroica, I would not be comfortable with only a Wii. I very gladly had a PC, Wii, and PS3 last gen and it worked for me.

But I think we need to define what we mean by objectivity.

Objectively, the gen for Sony was a disaster. They picked up towards the end. But the launch and first few years were much less than Sony expected.

Objectively, the gen for MS was very good. They didn't come out financially on top, but they took a bunch of market share from Sony. And MS lead the way into online gaming and really set the standards for it (console-wise).

Objectively, Nintendo made the most bank. They had a bad 3rd party library and a bad online system, but it doesn't matter because their success and influence cannot be denied.

From a gaming perspective, that means little to me. What matters to me is games.

organic_machine

[QUOTE="AznbkdX"]

[QUOTE="DarkLink77"] That's true, but I don't think you can argue Nintendo is behind the curve in terms of design, even with preference. The only company with design chops that is even remotely in the same league is Blizzard.DarkLink77

I guess you can say that as a general preference they weren't behind depending on how you look at it, which is why all this stuff is hard to extrapolate. For some gamers they don't believe that the motion control technology (at least I think thats what you mean) really are any way to step up your game. Traditionalist find no solace in most innovation imo and would rather just play there games without any hassle unless it meaningfully adds a step up in gaming. Ninty may have done this for some, but maybe they didn't since their controls may have been flimsy or unused much of the time for the others. It really depends what you think is innovative or not which is why I still think its general preference overall.

If you are talking about games, then once again some may find Nintendo's style a bit daunting compared to several game series that have come out these last few years. There have been many devs that stepped up to the plate, so maybe others feel that Ninty isn't cutting it in comparison due to the shift in preferences. This can attribute to the no games attitude, kiddy games, and all that garbage, which some actually believe in or justify for any reason.

Yeah I myself think mechanically they are top notch as well. In fact most who are any kind of gamer probably would, just saying there are those few that just can't stand it.

I'm guessing that stigma just comes from the times really. I hate it too and think its irrational ( I freaking love most Pixar movies), but when you grew up on the games such as CoD and such, and the ease of access on any kind of information normally portraying bad situations, then their may be warped minds.

[QUOTE="TheEroica"][QUOTE="organic_machine"]

Here's where my issue is: When you say "things that effect us," that goes against the very idea of objective. How something affects me is inherently subjective. So what you are saying is we must objectively argue something subjective. To objectivly look at the console war, we have to dviroce our argument from our own perception and look at things as they are.

And this is a business, so it's all about sales. That is objective truth. Sales have very little impact on me as a gamer. And the impact on me is where I agree with all of your points. Each system has its pro's and con's and it's up to us to decide which ones we'd want to purchase.

But again I take issue at your use of the word 'objective' here. It derails the entire argument.

AznbkdX

This is what I was thinking as well. I think most of you are focusing a little too much on that word. The context is what really matters here.

Nintendo won let it go people.

[QUOTE="AznbkdX"]

This is what I was thinking as well. I think most of you are focusing a little too much on that word. The context is what really matters here.

TheEroica

I probably was focusing on that one word too much, because I agree with the main point of the thread. But man, the thought of that one word was KILLING me! :P

[QUOTE="DarkLink77"][QUOTE="AznbkdX"]

I guess you can say that as a general preference they weren't behind depending on how you look at it, which is why all this stuff is hard to extrapolate. For some gamers they don't believe that the motion control technology (at least I think thats what you mean) really are any way to step up your game. Traditionalist find no solace in most innovation imo and would rather just play there games without any hassle unless it meaningfully adds a step up in gaming. Ninty may have done this for some, but maybe they didn't since their controls may have been flimsy or unused much of the time for the others. It really depends what you think is innovative or not which is why I still think its general preference overall.

If you are talking about games, then once again some may find Nintendo's style a bit daunting compared to several game series that have come out these last few years. There have been many devs that stepped up to the plate, so maybe others feel that Ninty isn't cutting it in comparison due to the shift in preferences. This can attribute to the no games attitude, kiddy games, and all that garbage, which some actually believe in or justify for any reason.

AznbkdX

Yeah I myself think mechanically they are top notch as well. In fact most who are any kind of gamer probably would, just saying there are those few that just can't stand it.

I'm guessing that stigma just comes from the times really. I hate it too and think its irrational ( I freaking love most Pixar movies), but when you grew up on the games such as CoD and such, and the ease of access on any kind of information normally portraying bad situations, then their may be warped minds.

The ds and wii line won nintendo outsold ps1 and ps2 put together in one gen , 

ps3 360 are at a dead near tie almost so no one really won the hd battle , lol

and i predict a repeat for next gen except ms will be last and all 3 well sell less consoles then this gen possibly having a near close battle

Nintendo won in sales, but I think Microsoft is holding onto their market a lot better.

I think it's incredible how successful the 360 is seven years after release.

[QUOTE="TheEroica"][QUOTE="AznbkdX"]

This is what I was thinking as well. I think most of you are focusing a little too much on that word. The context is what really matters here.

organic_machine

I probably was focusing on that one word too much, because I agree with the main point of the thread. But man, the thought of that one word was KILLING me! :P

:lol: no worries brother... just be gentle :P

Thank You SONY for the PS3!! 

PlayStation® 3 Computer Entertainment System -best console this generation hands down and the only one in the history of gaming to obliterate the HATE. Free online, bluray, HDMI 1.3, HDD, Wi-Fi, rechargeable controller on every console since day one.

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Welcome to the PlayStation®Nation. Long Live Play.

I think it's incredible how successful the 360 is seven years after release.

Ly_the_Fairy

No doubt, ESPECIALLY how dominant Sony was the gen previous. I think a lot of it had to do with MS truly setting the standard for console online gaming. They created a quality service and Sony, from day one, was catcing up.

[QUOTE="Ly_the_Fairy"]

I think it's incredible how successful the 360 is seven years after release.

organic_machine

No doubt, ESPECIALLY how dominant Sony was the gen previous. I think a lot of it had to do with MS truly setting the standard for console online gaming. They created a quality service and Sony, from day one, was catcing up.

Fortunately for them, Sony can't outspend them.