You don't honestly believe that any one consele truly WON last generation...

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Avatar image for TheEroica
#1 Posted by TheEroica (17279 posts) -

Just an observation from a place of objective thought. Nobody has a legitimate claim to "winning" last generation... It is fairly apparent that the three console companies had peaks and valleys of different aspects of their business that either augmented or hindered gaming for gamers. The three companies had wins and losses, but nobody in any capacity ran away with an undisputed victory. Period.

Nintendo- Very high sales, very pathetic third party support...

Sony- Free and up to date online, some great franchises, lost tremendous market share, very questionable business decisions throughout, especially early on. First to last in sales.

Microsoft- Could potentially triple market growth when all is said and done, industry leading franchises, populated community, changed focus half way through the generation and stopped developing new core franchises, still pay to play online and sony has caught up.

Bottom line, is you can and should have preferences last generation, me for example played 90% Xbox360 and am quite happy with that. The other two consoles were a passing spot of entertainment from time to time. That said, one can easily surmize that no one "won" last generation...

For the fanboys who can't break away from their dilussions...Chew it and...

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#2 Posted by Perfect_Blue (30064 posts) -

Just an observation from a place of objective thought.

TheEroica

lol'd hard

Nintendo won.

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#3 Posted by tagyhag (15874 posts) -
Only way you can win is with sales if you're objectively speaking. Winning by games will never hold true because not everyone has the same taste. If you're talking about SW the metagame is just for fun. Yeah there's people that take it too seriously but they're idiots.
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#4 Posted by TheEroica (17279 posts) -

[QUOTE="TheEroica"]

Just an observation from a place of objective thought.

Aljosa23

lol'd hard

Nintendo won.

well supported! :roll:
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#5 Posted by SecretPolice (31980 posts) -

I'm certain that all on SW agrees that if you were only gonna game on one system this gen, that system should be teh 360. :shock: :twisted:

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#6 Posted by organic_machine (9902 posts) -

Well from a bsuiness perspective, Nintendo won.

From a gamers perspective, I think that nobody won.

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#7 Posted by Zeviander (9503 posts) -
Nintendo stomped MS and Sony into the ground. What made it even more humiliating was the fact they came off a 3rd place showing in the previous generation with an over-clocked Gamecube.
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#8 Posted by TheEroica (17279 posts) -
[QUOTE="tagyhag"]Only way you can win is with sales if you're objectively speaking. Winning by games will never hold true because not everyone has the same taste. If you're talking about SW the metagame is just for fun. Yeah there's people that take it too seriously but they're idiots.

I believe you can look at the whole body of work and put prejudice aside to objectively look at the overall scope of what the companies offered this gen to come to the conclusion I listed above... for example, youre right that games are opinion, but one can also look at how well the games were received in the industry to get a sense of whether it was a positive aspect of owning that console. Lair is not a reason to own the PS3 but it is generally accepted that Uncharted is... there will always be a variance but I can objectively accept that.
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#9 Posted by lowe0 (13692 posts) -
The Wii, easily. Best in sales, heavily influenced both MS and Sony mid generation, and fits with the generally positive trend of casual gaming.
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#10 Posted by blue_hazy_basic (30827 posts) -

Well from a bsuiness perspective, Nintendo won.

From a gamers perspective, I think that nobody won.

organic_machine
Pretty much exactly this.
Avatar image for TheEroica
#11 Posted by TheEroica (17279 posts) -
[QUOTE="Zeviander"]Nintendo stomped MS and Sony into the ground. What made it even more humiliating was the fact they came off a 3rd place showing in the previous generation with an over-clocked Gamecube.

so, since you brought up the hardware itself and steered away from making a comment about sales, what experiences last generation on the wii leads you to say that it "stomped MS and Sony into the ground"? because theres no way that even objectively speaking I could say that the wii outclassed the ps3 and xbox in games.
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#12 Posted by LegatoSkyheart (29675 posts) -

You're just fooling yourself if you didn't think the Xbox 360 was the true winner of this generation.

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#13 Posted by Perfect_Blue (30064 posts) -

[QUOTE="Aljosa23"]

[QUOTE="TheEroica"]

Just an observation from a place of objective thought.

TheEroica

lol'd hard

Nintendo won.

well supported! :roll:

It's video games not a debate about philosophy or politics. They sold an incredible amount thus they won. It's a no brainer and no amount of mental gymnastics will change that.

Avatar image for tagyhag
#14 Posted by tagyhag (15874 posts) -
[QUOTE="TheEroica"][QUOTE="tagyhag"]Only way you can win is with sales if you're objectively speaking. Winning by games will never hold true because not everyone has the same taste. If you're talking about SW the metagame is just for fun. Yeah there's people that take it too seriously but they're idiots.

I believe you can look at the whole body of work and put prejudice aside to objectively look at the overall scope of what the companies offered this gen to come to the conclusion I listed above... for example, youre right that games are opinion, but one can also look at how well the games were received in the industry to get a sense of whether it was a positive aspect of owning that console. Lair is not a reason to own the PS3 but it is generally accepted that Uncharted is... there will always be a variance but I can objectively accept that.

If you were to try to get as close as you could using games as the condition for winning, your method of general acceptance would be the best I agree. However that would mean that the PC would be the clear victor by a mile. :P
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#15 Posted by MBirdy88 (12230 posts) -
Nintendo won because of sales? did they profit the most? why are games and quality not factored in all of a sudden? backwards f*kin forum don't even follow your own rules.
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#16 Posted by Zeviander (9503 posts) -
so, since you brought up the hardware itself and steered away from making a comment about sales, what experiences last generation on the wii leads you to say that it "stomped MS and Sony into the ground"? because theres no way that even objectively speaking I could say that the wii outclassed the ps3 and xbox in games.TheEroica
Some of the highest scoring games of all time on Metacritic and a AAAAE on Gamespot say otherwise. "Objectively" speaking.
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#17 Posted by RR360DD (13693 posts) -

Nintendo won simply because the Wii sold the most (despite all its shortcomings)

Ultimately, the only winners this gen were Nintendo and Microsoft, as both greating increased their marketshare.

Sony is the only loser, reducing its marketshare drastically and falling from 1st place to last.

Avatar image for TheEroica
#18 Posted by TheEroica (17279 posts) -

[QUOTE="TheEroica"][QUOTE="Aljosa23"]lol'd hard

Nintendo won.

Aljosa23

well supported! :roll:

It's video games not a debate about philosophy or politics. They sold an incredible amount thus they won. It's a no brainer and no amount of mental gymnastics will change that.

So you would've been happy with the wii alone last generation and are content with that experience only? Is that what you are implying?
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#19 Posted by TheEroica (17279 posts) -
[QUOTE="TheEroica"]so, since you brought up the hardware itself and steered away from making a comment about sales, what experiences last generation on the wii leads you to say that it "stomped MS and Sony into the ground"? because theres no way that even objectively speaking I could say that the wii outclassed the ps3 and xbox in games.Zeviander
Some of the highest scoring games of all time on Metacritic and a AAAAE on Gamespot say otherwise. "Objectively" speaking.

"some"
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#20 Posted by Nintendo_Ownes7 (30972 posts) -

Well from a business perspective, Nintendo won.

From a gamers perspective, I think that nobody won.

organic_machine

I could agree with that.

Avatar image for DarkLink77
#21 Posted by DarkLink77 (32731 posts) -

[QUOTE="TheEroica"][QUOTE="Aljosa23"]lol'd hard

Nintendo won.

Aljosa23

well supported! :roll:

It's video games not a debate about philosophy or politics. They sold an incredible amount thus they won. It's a no brainer and no amount of mental gymnastics will change that.

This.

Nintendo also made the most money by a county mile. You can argue game libraries all day, but Nintendo won the gen, and they did it handily.

Let's not pretend otherwise.

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#22 Posted by Perfect_Blue (30064 posts) -

So you would've been happy with the wii alone last generation and are content with that experience only? Is that what you are implying?TheEroica
Please don't put words in my mouth if you're going to have a discussion. My favourite console last gen was the Xbox 360, doesn't mean I think it won.

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#23 Posted by rjdofu (9171 posts) -
Nintendo won, but fvck them with that Wii POS, i prefer Sony, SDC :cool:
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#24 Posted by BigBoss255 (3539 posts) -
At the moment PS3/360 have more games in 2013 than Wii U so as far as I'm concerned next gen hasn't started. Wii clearly won in sales though.
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#25 Posted by TheEroica (17279 posts) -
[QUOTE="tagyhag"][QUOTE="TheEroica"][QUOTE="tagyhag"]Only way you can win is with sales if you're objectively speaking. Winning by games will never hold true because not everyone has the same taste. If you're talking about SW the metagame is just for fun. Yeah there's people that take it too seriously but they're idiots.

I believe you can look at the whole body of work and put prejudice aside to objectively look at the overall scope of what the companies offered this gen to come to the conclusion I listed above... for example, youre right that games are opinion, but one can also look at how well the games were received in the industry to get a sense of whether it was a positive aspect of owning that console. Lair is not a reason to own the PS3 but it is generally accepted that Uncharted is... there will always be a variance but I can objectively accept that.

If you were to try to get as close as you could using games as the condition for winning, your method of general acceptance would be the best I agree. However that would mean that the PC would be the clear victor by a mile. :P

PeeCee got owned by the wii bro... :P I offer the general acceptance because, we tend to just look at sales and say, "thats it!!! clear winner!!!' when I HIGHLY doubt that many of US (likeminded passionate gamers) would feel satisfied only gaming on a wii and thus, calls into question how dominant the wii actually was. I know a million sheep will want my head for saying that, but eff em. I'm not bagging the wii, I'm just not willing to pretend that cooking mama and 100 million consoles sold automatically equals a clear winner in the console wars.
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#26 Posted by BPoole96 (22817 posts) -

I would say MS won the 7th gen. They went from being irrelevent last gen to gaining a huge marketshare this gen as Sony as an entire company has crippled into last place. Although Nintendo sold the most, the horrible third party support and their apparent inability to maintain the casual crowd with the Wii U puts them in what I feel is a bad position for the 8th gen, whereas I feel MS will be able to provide enough entertainment for both casual and core audiences.

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#27 Posted by TheEroica (17279 posts) -

[QUOTE="TheEroica"]So you would've been happy with the wii alone last generation and are content with that experience only? Is that what you are implying?Aljosa23

Please don't put words in my mouth if you're going to have a discussion. My favourite console last gen was the Xbox 360, doesn't mean I think it won.

not at all trying to put words in your mouth, so I apologize if thats what it seems... I'm simply clarifying what it seemed to be an undeniable support for the wii as a gaming device as opposed to JUST sales.
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#28 Posted by TheEroica (17279 posts) -

[QUOTE="Aljosa23"]

[QUOTE="TheEroica"] well supported! :roll:DarkLink77

It's video games not a debate about philosophy or politics. They sold an incredible amount thus they won. It's a no brainer and no amount of mental gymnastics will change that.

This.

Nintendo also made the most money by a county mile. You can argue game libraries all day, but Nintendo won the gen, and they did it handily.

Let's not pretend otherwise.

I listed sales as a pro in the wii catagory, though I am quite clear tha in the realm of what we consider to be the best aspects of gaming, GAMES are important too, and thus will call out the wii for suffering by comparison.
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#29 Posted by Perfect_Blue (30064 posts) -

not at all trying to put words in your mouth, so I apologize if thats what it seems... I'm simply clarifying what it seemed to be an undeniable support for the wii as a gaming device as opposed to JUST sales.TheEroica
It's cool.

I think it depends on your needs and expectations. I doubt many, if any gamers thought the Wii would have great third party support since history shows otherwise. I liked the console because I didn't have huge expectations about it just because it's Nintendo. I love Nintendo and get their console for the first party offerings and not third-party titles. I have a PC for that. :P

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#30 Posted by TheEroica (17279 posts) -

[QUOTE="organic_machine"]

Well from a business perspective, Nintendo won.

From a gamers perspective, I think that nobody won.

Nintendo_Ownes7

I could agree with that.

and I stated sales in the OP as a win for nintendo... you can add a pathetic online experience that I shouldve added to the con list.
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#31 Posted by HaRmLeSS_RaGe (1330 posts) -

Both Nintendo and MS "won" this gen as they both made profits.

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#32 Posted by rjdofu (9171 posts) -
[QUOTE="Nintendo_Ownes7"]

[QUOTE="organic_machine"]

Well from a business perspective, Nintendo won.

From a gamers perspective, I think that nobody won.

TheEroica

I could agree with that.

and I stated sales in the OP as a win for nintendo... you can add a pathetic online experience that I shouldve added to the con list.

lol nintendo online.
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#33 Posted by TheEroica (17279 posts) -

[QUOTE="TheEroica"]not at all trying to put words in your mouth, so I apologize if thats what it seems... I'm simply clarifying what it seemed to be an undeniable support for the wii as a gaming device as opposed to JUST sales.Aljosa23

It's cool.

I think it depends on your needs and expectations. I doubt many, if any gamers thought the Wii would have great third party support since history shows otherwise. I liked the console because I didn't have huge expectations about it just because it's Nintendo. I love Nintendo and get their console for the first party offerings and not third-party titles. I have a PC for that. :P

And maybe thats all im trying to shed light on... when we discuss a difinitive, "Who Won?!?!?" I, as an invested gamer find it difficult to just say, "whoever had the best sales" even though I do see sales as a concrete truth when it comes to success, but I also believe that us intelligent gamers have enough self respect to call the winner as it effects US and not simply the companies bottom line. I give Nintendo props for taking the chances they did to put themselves where they are. I own a wii and love aspects of it, but I also can't say (as it effects me ) that the wii came anywhere near close to fulfilling my gaming needs this gen. Thats all Im saying... I see the whole console industry in Gen 7 as having some claims to fame as well as shame.
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#34 Posted by drinkerofjuice (4567 posts) -

Well from a bsuiness perspective, Nintendo won.

From a gamers perspective, I think that nobody won.

organic_machine
Ding! This is the correct answer.
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#35 Posted by DarkLink77 (32731 posts) -

[QUOTE="DarkLink77"]

[QUOTE="Aljosa23"]It's video games not a debate about philosophy or politics. They sold an incredible amount thus they won. It's a no brainer and no amount of mental gymnastics will change that.

TheEroica

This.

Nintendo also made the most money by a county mile. You can argue game libraries all day, but Nintendo won the gen, and they did it handily.

Let's not pretend otherwise.

I listed sales as a pro in the wii catagory, though I am quite clear tha in the realm of what we consider to be the best aspects of gaming, GAMES are important too, and thus will call out the wii for suffering by comparison.

I'll bet money that Nintendo's first party line-up on the Wii will hold up better as games than 95% of the games released this gen, especially Sony's first party line-up which built itself around production values.

Talking library is all well and good, but most of those games don't hold up. Sure, the PS1 had a great library overall, but outside of the stuff Square made, pretty much all of it is garbage now. I'd take the N64's library over the PS1's right now any day of the week.

So yeah, bad library overall? Sure. But you don't buy Nintendo consoles for overall library. You buy it for Nintendo games and the occasional third party masterpiece (Resident Evil 4). So it's kind of a moot point.

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#36 Posted by DarkLink77 (32731 posts) -
[QUOTE="organic_machine"]

Well from a bsuiness perspective, Nintendo won.

From a gamers perspective, I think that nobody won.

drinkerofjuice
Ding! This is the correct answer.

Pretty much. Worst gen of the all times.
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#37 Posted by Eikichi-Onizuka (9068 posts) -
Yes, I absolutely do. They all won, because we're all winners.
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#38 Posted by organic_machine (9902 posts) -

To answer you more specifically, Eroica, I would not be comfortable with only a Wii. I very gladly had a PC, Wii, and PS3 last gen and it worked for me.

But I think we need to define what we mean by objectivity.

Objectively, the gen for Sony was a disaster. They picked up towards the end. But the launch and first few years were much less than Sony expected.

Objectively, the gen for MS was very good. They didn't come out financially on top, but they took a bunch of market share from Sony. And MS lead the way into online gaming and really set the standards for it (console-wise).

Objectively, Nintendo made the most bank. They had a bad 3rd party library and a bad online system, but it doesn't matter because their success and influence cannot be denied.

From a gaming perspective, that means little to me. What matters to me is games.

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#39 Posted by Perfect_Blue (30064 posts) -

And maybe thats all im trying to shed light on... when we discuss a difinitive, "Who Won?!?!?" I, as an invested gamer find it difficult to just say, "whoever had the best sales" even though I do see sales as a concrete truth when it comes to success, but I also believe that us intelligent gamers have enough self respect to call the winner as it effects US and not simply the companies bottom line. I give Nintendo props for taking the chances they did to put themselves where they are. I own a wii and love aspects of it, but I also can't say (as it effects me ) that the wii came anywhere near close to fulfilling my gaming needs this gen. Thats all Im saying... I see the whole console industry in Gen 7 as having some claims to fame as well as shame. TheEroica
I think the main difference between you and I is placing importance on who "won". To me it just means who sold the most consoles, that's it. I won't enjoy something simply for that reason. Some of my favourite consoles ever like Gamecube and Saturn came last in their respective gens but it doesn't really matter in the end.

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#40 Posted by rjdofu (9171 posts) -

Yes, I absolutely do. They all won, because we're all winners. Eikichi-Onizuka

Indeed.

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#41 Posted by coasterguy65 (7133 posts) -

The Wii started great and petered out at the end, once the fad wore off. Most Wiis sit unused, in closets, or their parts stripped out for use on the Wii-U.

The Xbox 360 started out great, hit the RRoD wall, bounced back, but then made the mistake of focusing Kinect and casuals. While they are still selling 360s they have lost a lot of the Core audience they tried so hard to build.

The PS3 sucked until 2009. Luckily for them since the release of the Slim, and the overdue price drop the PS3 is selling well. It's doubtful it will ever see PS2 numbers, and Sony is loosing their ass financially. However given the assumption that Sony will continue to sell the PS3 well into the later part of this decade at some point it will probably move into 2nd, then 1st place. Once Nintendo and MS stop selling their current consoles. Not that it matters that much at this point.

Summary - None of the consoles dominated this...er...last generation. Nintendo sold great, then lost momentum. The one thing Nintendo did do right is make a profit off of pretty much every Wii ever sold. MS gained a lot of market share. Sony lost a lot of market share, but the PS3 does seem to be recovering pretty nicely.

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#42 Posted by ultraking (6904 posts) -

sales? Nintendo won...... Games? SONY and MS finished about even

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#43 Posted by Jaysonguy (39454 posts) -

Ok, so the TC is all about "feelings" and "thoughts".

Here's the facts

Nintendo sold 25 million more units then the other companies

They won, and whatever Oprah gave you courage to say about how you feel about it doesn't change that.

Avatar image for TheEroica
#44 Posted by TheEroica (17279 posts) -

[QUOTE="TheEroica"][QUOTE="DarkLink77"] This.

Nintendo also made the most money by a county mile. You can argue game libraries all day, but Nintendo won the gen, and they did it handily.

Let's not pretend otherwise.

DarkLink77

I listed sales as a pro in the wii catagory, though I am quite clear tha in the realm of what we consider to be the best aspects of gaming, GAMES are important too, and thus will call out the wii for suffering by comparison.

I'll bet money that Nintendo's first party line-up on the Wii will hold up better as games than 95% of the games released this gen, especially Sony's first party line-up which built itself around production values.

Talking library is all well and good, but most of those games don't hold up. Sure, the PS1 had a great library overall, but outside of the stuff Square made, pretty much all of it is garbage now. I'd take the N64's library over the PS1's right now any day of the week.

So yeah, bad library overall? Sure. But you don't buy Nintendo consoles for overall library. You buy it for Nintendo games and the occasional third party masterpiece (Resident Evil 4). So it's kind of a moot point.

perhaps... and as you stated, we will certainly see how time ages this generation of gaming. Nintendo first party games tend to hold up very well over time... It is also fair to question what is an unquenchable loop of opinion when it comes to what we all consider to be "good" games and "bad" games as people game for different reasons. I guess what I'm making an attempt to bring to light (in the lions den of SW :P ) is that each of the three companies possess an aspect of their business to be crazy proud of and depending on your point of view can be applied to the overall "winning" of the generation. side note- The closeness in quality experiences as offered by all three of the console makers, give me the most evidence I need that Gen 8 is gonna be a great one for gamers... I want them to dog fight each other all day long. Runaway winners don't often give me hope in this industry... as seen by the start PS3 had this gen. They got good, when they got humbled.
Avatar image for TheEroica
#45 Posted by TheEroica (17279 posts) -

Ok, so the TC is all about "feelings" and "thoughts".

Here's the facts

Nintendo sold 25 million more units then the other companies

They won, and whatever Oprah gave you courage to say about how you feel about it doesn't change that.

Jaysonguy

feelings

Hold me.... I just want you to share your feelings.

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#46 Posted by Heil68 (57859 posts) -
For me the end user, I think Sony won because of the sheer volume and quality of exclusives that appeal to me. That's all that matters in the end.
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#47 Posted by ultraking (6904 posts) -

Ok, so the TC is all about "feelings" and "thoughts".

Here's the facts

Nintendo sold 25 million more units then the other companies

They won, and whatever Oprah gave you courage to say about how you feel about it doesn't change that.

Jaysonguy

repeat please? in english this time

Avatar image for Jaysonguy
#48 Posted by Jaysonguy (39454 posts) -

[QUOTE="Jaysonguy"]

Ok, so the TC is all about "feelings" and "thoughts".

Here's the facts

Nintendo sold 25 million more units then the other companies

They won, and whatever Oprah gave you courage to say about how you feel about it doesn't change that.

TheEroica

feelings

Hold me.... I just want you to share your feelings.

I deal with facts, you're the one that says there's other criteria to determine who won.

Are you also one of those people who thinks that money isn't the most important thing on Earth?

Maybe going to urge someone to recycle later?

Avatar image for TheEroica
#49 Posted by TheEroica (17279 posts) -

[QUOTE="TheEroica"]And maybe thats all im trying to shed light on... when we discuss a difinitive, "Who Won?!?!?" I, as an invested gamer find it difficult to just say, "whoever had the best sales" even though I do see sales as a concrete truth when it comes to success, but I also believe that us intelligent gamers have enough self respect to call the winner as it effects US and not simply the companies bottom line. I give Nintendo props for taking the chances they did to put themselves where they are. I own a wii and love aspects of it, but I also can't say (as it effects me ) that the wii came anywhere near close to fulfilling my gaming needs this gen. Thats all Im saying... I see the whole console industry in Gen 7 as having some claims to fame as well as shame. Aljosa23

I think the main difference between you and I is placing importance on who "won". To me it just means who sold the most consoles, that's it. I won't enjoy something simply for that reason. Some of my favourite consoles ever like Gamecube and Saturn came last in their respective gens but it doesn't really matter in the end.

fair enough... :) I enjoyed the XBOX1 last gen more than the competition TBH, KOTOR alone was the best game of gen to me, without question. So I see your point.
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#50 Posted by Jaysonguy (39454 posts) -

That's all that matters in the end. Heil68

No, who has the most money matters in the end

Everyone understands this is a business right? lol