Xbox One X 'performing phenomenally' says NPD

Avatar image for cainetao11
#451 Posted by cainetao11 (35700 posts) -

@mowgly1: where did I defend Mooch?

“Well you're not just a PS4 fanboy then either. You're a person that actively hates another electronic box”

Is exactly what I said. I never once said what Mooch did was ok or justified it. Please show me where I did.

Avatar image for mowgly1
#452 Edited by mowgly1 (1131 posts) -

@cainetao11 said:

@mowgly1: do you always draw conclusions from being asked a question? When did I say I prefer either? I simply asked what makes being one better than the other since you claimed one is.

I choose to be a fanboy because you immediately reacted to defend Mooch and called me a fanboy just because i called a Mooch a Xbone harasser. Like you said

Well you're not just a PS4 fanboy then either. You're a person that actively hates another electronic box that plays video games.

"Is exactly what I said. I never once said what Mooch did was ok or justified it. Please show me where I did."

Calling me a fanboy that hate electronic box immediately after i said Mooch is a Xbone harasser. That's the point! You literally defended him and you repented calling me that i'm a fanboy that hate an electronic box. That means you support his deeds. Otherwise you wouldn't do anything.

Avatar image for the-a-baum
#453 Posted by The-A-Baum (1047 posts) -

@mowgly1: Mooch has spent more $$$ on PS consoles and games in a year than you have in your life.

Avatar image for mowgly1
#454 Edited by mowgly1 (1131 posts) -

@the-a-baum said:

@mowgly1: Mooch has spent more $$$ on PS consoles and games in a year than you have in your life.

Yeah, yeah. Surely, harassing new PS4 buyers at Gamestop. That's how he spent his money.

@tormentos @BenjaminBanklin Beware of some Xbone fans here like cainetao11. He literally defended Mooch, an Xbone idiot who'd harassed PS4 buyers at Gamestop. You can see his post where he repented calling me a fanboy who hate an electronic box just because i said that Mooch is an Xbone harasser.

Avatar image for ronvalencia
#455 Edited by ronvalencia (26541 posts) -

@tormentos said:
@ronvalencia said:

Try again.

I don't have to try again The xbox one never was a w5000 it was a 7790 slow down and cut down for yields.

The PS4 had 50% more GPU cores which is why it perform better,the rest is history.

And you downplayed the gap in performance all generation long,even when it was more than 100% like 720p vs 1080p.

Your dismissive of W5000 makes you a marketing name follower instead of focusing the actual hardware involved.

Do the math on RDR2's pixel count difference and compare it to XBO/PS4/PS4 Pro TFLOPS difference. You will find it's mostly CU power influenced.

X1X's RDR2 4K result with 6 TFLOPS shows different improvements from TFLOPS path.

Hint: 7970 still has 32 ROPS is STILL superior to 7870. I trust NVIDIA's Maxwell/Pascal codebase analytics and profiling to configure their GPUs. I don't think AMD has done proper profiling with existing code base.

Avatar image for i_p_daily
#456 Edited by I_P_Daily (9468 posts) -

@mowgly1: calling for backup, what sad lives you cows lead lol.

Avatar image for kylomen
#457 Posted by kylomen (8 posts) -

@mowgly1 said:
@the-a-baum said:

@mowgly1: Mooch has spent more $$$ on PS consoles and games in a year than you have in your life.

Yeah, yeah. Surely, harassing new PS4 buyers at Gamestop. That's how he spent his money.

@tormentos @BenjaminBanklin Beware of some Xbone fans here like cainetao11. He literally defended Mooch, an Xbone idiot who'd harassed PS4 buyers at Gamestop. You can see his post where he repented calling me a fanboy who hate an electronic box just because i said that Mooch is an Xbone harasser.

Some white male with a confederate flag t-shirt was laughing at me during black friday when i was buying PS4 spiderman bundle & a Nintendo switch at walmart.

I thought he was laughing at me because of the color of my skin, but he was just probably laughing at my purchases

Avatar image for clone01
#458 Posted by clone01 (27339 posts) -

@mowgly1 said:
@the-a-baum said:

@mowgly1: Mooch has spent more $$$ on PS consoles and games in a year than you have in your life.

Yeah, yeah. Surely, harassing new PS4 buyers at Gamestop. That's how he spent his money.

@tormentos @BenjaminBanklin Beware of some Xbone fans here like cainetao11. He literally defended Mooch, an Xbone idiot who'd harassed PS4 buyers at Gamestop. You can see his post where he repented calling me a fanboy who hate an electronic box just because i said that Mooch is an Xbone harasser.

jesus, dude, settle down.

Avatar image for cainetao11
#459 Edited by cainetao11 (35700 posts) -

@mowgly1: calling you that is easily pulled from your post history.

You still haven’t proven I defended a YouTube person. Yet you accuse more than once.

Avatar image for mowgly1
#460 Edited by mowgly1 (1131 posts) -

@cainetao11:

And what are you according to your post history, Xbone fan, hm? LOL

You literally defended him and you repented calling me that i'm a fanboy that hate an electronic box just because i said Mooch is an Xbone harasser. Why you called me that i'm a fanboy who hate electronic box IMMEDIATELY after i said Mooch is an Xbone harasser? That implies on your reaction to counter my statement about Mooch. Same shit if i said your Xbone console is such a piece of crap. You would feel the need to counter my statement saying PS4 is a flop. THAT'S DEFENDING! You did the same crap when i said Mooch is a Xbone harasser! You repented to me calling me a fanboy who hates the electronic box. That's the point! And also that implies that you support his deeds. You knew what he did. Otherwise you wouldn't said anything to me like "according to your post history" when i said Mooch is a Xbone harasser. BUT YOU DID!

You, cainetao11, are supporter of Xbone harasser, Mooch.

Avatar image for tormentos
#461 Posted by tormentos (28017 posts) -

@ronvalencia said:

Your dismissive of W5000 makes you a marketing name follower instead of focusing the actual hardware involved.

Do the math on RDR2's pixel count difference and compare it to XBO/PS4/PS4 Pro TFLOPS difference. You will find it's mostly CU power influenced.

X1X's RDR2 4K result with 6 TFLOPS shows different improvements from TFLOPS path.

Hint: 7970 still has 32 ROPS is STILL superior to 7870. I trust NVIDIA's Maxwell/Pascal codebase analytics and profiling to configure their GPUs. I don't think AMD has done proper profiling with existing code base.

The xbox one was a 14CU 7790,with 2 CU disable for yields and 16ROP it was bonaire all alone.

And even Digital foundry agree.

The xbox one X perform better than the Pro because it has more power and the extra memory doesn't hurt either.

Avatar image for tormentos
#462 Posted by tormentos (28017 posts) -

@Pedro said:

Don't hate me because you are grasping at straws and can't hold your own. :)

It is you who can't hold its own.

My argument is correct and year over year is not pin to the xbox on X this year performance vs last year,is pin to the xbox one X launch which mean they are talking about the xbox one sales as whole.

And again considering you are one huge lemming again i find any argument were you call anyone a fanboy to be lol worthy.

@Steppy_76 said:

How many games are only 720p on the x1? The resolution gap is usually 1080p vs. 900p or so, but way to take the least common/widest resolution gap scenario to skew your argument.

That isn't the point the point is some games stress the machine so hard it dropped to 720p while the PS4 didn't,in other the gap wasn't just 900p to 1080p,also included better effects,higher quality assets,and faster frames in many cases.

For example Doom.

This highlights one area where a PS4 exhibits an advantage over Xbox One: it boasts a full 1080p output for the vast majority of the duration, with minor drops in resolution occurring in select circumstances. In contrast, Xbox One regularly struggles to hit full 1080p, more often coming in around 1472x828 or lower.

When it comes to performance, both versions aim to deliver a steady 60 frames per second update and the game comes remarkably close to delivering just that. On PlayStation 4, the majority of battles play out with only the smallest of drops. We've already presented one of the worst-case scenarios in video form, but the overall experience feels perceptually rock solid to the point where we were surprised to find any drops at all after analysing the footage.

On Xbox One, performance isn't quite as robust but it still manages to feel great. During many of the larger battles, frame-rates tumble into the mid-50s with some dips all the way down into the 40s.

The PS4 is almost always 1080p,the xbox one version drops 1472x828 that is lower than 900p,but that is not the only gap the PS4 also is 60FPS almost all the time as well,while the xbox one version drop into the 40's man the 40's.

Those 2 gaps combined amount to more than 100% and Doom is a very optimized game.

So not only it was 900p vs 1080p in many games it was much more.

And yeah i argued this quite a lot.

Avatar image for SecretPolice
#463 Posted by SecretPolice (34189 posts) -

Poor cows...

The rektage is palpable. :P

Avatar image for cainetao11
#464 Posted by cainetao11 (35700 posts) -

@mowgly1 said:

@cainetao11:

And what are you according to your post history, Xbone fan, hm? LOL

You literally defended him and you repented calling me that i'm a fanboy that hate an electronic box just because i said Mooch is an Xbone harasser. Why you called me that i'm a fanboy who hate electronic box IMMEDIATELY after i said Mooch is an Xbone harasser? That implies on your reaction to counter my statement about Mooch. Same shit if i said your Xbone console is such a piece of crap. You would feel the need to counter my statement saying PS4 is a flop. THAT'S DEFENDING! You did the same crap when i said Mooch is a Xbone harasser! You repented to me calling me a fanboy who hates the electronic box. That's the point! And also that implies that you support his deeds. You knew what he did. Otherwise you wouldn't said anything to me like "according to your post history" when i said Mooch is a Xbone harasser. BUT YOU DID!

You, cainetao11, are supporter of Xbone harasser, Mooch.

LOL I love this!!!

Avatar image for Steppy_76
#465 Posted by Steppy_76 (2378 posts) -

@tormentos said:
@Pedro said:

Don't hate me because you are grasping at straws and can't hold your own. :)

It is you who can't hold its own.

My argument is correct and year over year is not pin to the xbox on X this year performance vs last year,is pin to the xbox one X launch which mean they are talking about the xbox one sales as whole.

And again considering you are one huge lemming again i find any argument were you call anyone a fanboy to be lol worthy.

@Steppy_76 said:

How many games are only 720p on the x1? The resolution gap is usually 1080p vs. 900p or so, but way to take the least common/widest resolution gap scenario to skew your argument.

That isn't the point the point is some games stress the machine so hard it dropped to 720p while the PS4 didn't,in other the gap wasn't just 900p to 1080p,also included better effects,higher quality assets,and faster frames in many cases.

For example Doom.

This highlights one area where a PS4 exhibits an advantage over Xbox One: it boasts a full 1080p output for the vast majority of the duration, with minor drops in resolution occurring in select circumstances. In contrast, Xbox One regularly struggles to hit full 1080p, more often coming in around 1472x828 or lower.

When it comes to performance, both versions aim to deliver a steady 60 frames per second update and the game comes remarkably close to delivering just that. On PlayStation 4, the majority of battles play out with only the smallest of drops. We've already presented one of the worst-case scenarios in video form, but the overall experience feels perceptually rock solid to the point where we were surprised to find any drops at all after analysing the footage.

On Xbox One, performance isn't quite as robust but it still manages to feel great. During many of the larger battles, frame-rates tumble into the mid-50s with some dips all the way down into the 40s.

The PS4 is almost always 1080p,the xbox one version drops 1472x828 that is lower than 900p,but that is not the only gap the PS4 also is 60FPS almost all the time as well,while the xbox one version drop into the 40's man the 40's.

Those 2 gaps combined amount to more than 100% and Doom is a very optimized game.

So not only it was 900p vs 1080p in many games it was much more.

And yeah i argued this quite a lot.

That is NOT the norm, nor the average, nor is that stated to be 720p. As I stated way to take the worst case scenario and portray it as the norm. Everybody knew the PS4 was going to be more powerful than the XBO once they were announced. The fanboys on both sides are ALWAYS going to downplay objective disadvantages. Cows did it with the PS1, PS2, PS3, and PS4P, Lems did it with the xbox 1.

Heck, the biggest reason I went with the xbox one over the PS4 was the controller(and my daughter LOVES just dance so I had to get a Kinect). I've peronsally never stated the xbox one was a more powerful machine, nor do I see that being argued.

Avatar image for mowgly1
#466 Edited by mowgly1 (1131 posts) -

@cainetao11 said:

LOL I love this!!!

Good for you, harasser defender

Avatar image for the-a-baum
#467 Posted by The-A-Baum (1047 posts) -

"Give me 1080or give me Death!" "1080 makes you a better gamer!"- Sony

"4K makes you a better console gamer" -ME "2160 is bigger than 1440!"-ME

Hide behind your $3,000 Pcs like you always pretend to have!

"Sony has no games for the rest of the year....Brilliant!" -Gaming media

"Sony does not need E3!"-Greg Miller

Power does not matter yet PS5 is one off the biggest googled things since X came out!

My only gripe this Gen is all the free passes Sony has received.

Avatar image for cainetao11
#468 Posted by cainetao11 (35700 posts) -

It’s CAINETAO11!! Harasser defender!!!!

Avatar image for tormentos
#469 Posted by tormentos (28017 posts) -

@the-a-baum said:

"Give me 1080or give me Death!" "1080 makes you a better gamer!"- Sony

"4K makes you a better console gamer" -ME "2160 is bigger than 1440!"-ME

Hide behind your $3,000 Pcs like you always pretend to have!

"Sony has no games for the rest of the year....Brilliant!" -Gaming media

"Sony does not need E3!"-Greg Miller

Power does not matter yet PS5 is one off the biggest googled things since X came out!

My only gripe this Gen is all the free passes Sony has received.

On launch the PS4 already had games under 1080p,and sony never claimed all games would be 1080p either.

Kind of like 720p is fine but all of the sudden is 4k or nothing.lol

Sony has deliver great games this year they don't need a damn game every month specially when the xbox one is putting allot of garbage since the year started.

Sony skeeping E3 means they have something behind the back,hell what the fu** did MS showed this E3 that can only be played on xbox and nowhere else? All you need for E3 is multiplatforms and sony has those more than MS and with content as well.

Who is saying power doesn't matter because that is what lemmings try to pass for 4 years,after hyping superior version for 2 solid generations in a row.

My only gripe is hypocrite lemmings.

Avatar image for tormentos
#470 Posted by tormentos (28017 posts) -

@Steppy_76 said:

That is NOT the norm, nor the average, nor is that stated to be 720p. As I stated way to take the worst case scenario and portray it as the norm. Everybody knew the PS4 was going to be more powerful than the XBO once they were announced. The fanboys on both sides are ALWAYS going to downplay objective disadvantages. Cows did it with the PS1, PS2, PS3, and PS4P, Lems did it with the xbox 1.

Heck, the biggest reason I went with the xbox one over the PS4 was the controller(and my daughter LOVES just dance so I had to get a Kinect). I've peronsally never stated the xbox one was a more powerful machine, nor do I see that being argued.

Gaps are totally dependent on the developer,for example Ubisoft locked the PS4 version of ACU to 900p when they knew the PS4 could go higher,because they had a deal with MS.

Bullshit lemmings begin to ride DF secret sauce,i remember Digital Foundry endless articles about the so call 5 billion transistor APU,oh since it had more transistors than the PS4 something must be hidden,the endless articles about memory aggregations as if bandwidth was oranges.

With the PS1.? The saturn was more powerful so was the N64 so i wonder how,and specially cows arguing graphics for the PS here is lol worthy argument on your part.

Graphics comparison have existed before the PS even existed atari vs intelevision,sega vs Nintendo vs neogeo you name it,it certainly didn't start with cows at all.

Anyone who uses as excuse a controller to skip a console is simply a blind fanboy,we gamers adapt to different controllers,is a joke skipping the PS4 which kick the xbox one ass game wise because of a controller.

Hell you can even use your xbox one controller on PS4 with an adapter..lol

Avatar image for Steppy_76
#471 Posted by Steppy_76 (2378 posts) -

@tormentos said:
@Steppy_76 said:

That is NOT the norm, nor the average, nor is that stated to be 720p. As I stated way to take the worst case scenario and portray it as the norm. Everybody knew the PS4 was going to be more powerful than the XBO once they were announced. The fanboys on both sides are ALWAYS going to downplay objective disadvantages. Cows did it with the PS1, PS2, PS3, and PS4P, Lems did it with the xbox 1.

Heck, the biggest reason I went with the xbox one over the PS4 was the controller(and my daughter LOVES just dance so I had to get a Kinect). I've peronsally never stated the xbox one was a more powerful machine, nor do I see that being argued.

Gaps are totally dependent on the developer,for example Ubisoft locked the PS4 version of ACU to 900p when they knew the PS4 could go higher,because they had a deal with MS.

Bullshit lemmings begin to ride DF secret sauce,i remember Digital Foundry endless articles about the so call 5 billion transistor APU,oh since it had more transistors than the PS4 something must be hidden,the endless articles about memory aggregations as if bandwidth was oranges.

With the PS1.? The saturn was more powerful so was the N64 so i wonder how,and specially cows arguing graphics for the PS here is lol worthy argument on your part.

Graphics comparison have existed before the PS even existed atari vs intelevision,sega vs Nintendo vs neogeo you name it,it certainly didn't start with cows at all.

Anyone who uses as excuse a controller to skip a console is simply a blind fanboy,we gamers adapt to different controllers,is a joke skipping the PS4 which kick the xbox one ass game wise because of a controller.

Hell you can even use your xbox one controller on PS4 with an adapter..lol

So, lems didn't accept the PS4 was more powerful, yet cows gracefully accepted the PS1 being weaker. Ok dude, THAT seems completely plausible.

Notice I said objective weaknesses not graphics. I didn't go back to the beginning of time, merely the two companies being discussed in the topic at hand. There was fighting about the N64 controller, etc.

Who the **** are you to say what is or is not a valid excuse for a console? I don't like the left stick placed down below, and never will like it placed down below. Since I can find enough games that I enjoy on just about any system, controller comfort is one of my deciding factors. I use first party peripherals not 3rd party or adapters. I don't sweat not being able to play every game available, I don't even have enough time to play games on one system let alone 3 like I've done every previous gen. The literal handful of PS4 exclusives are NOT worth shelling out 300 bucks for. Stop pushing subjective arguments as objective ones.

Avatar image for ronvalencia
#473 Edited by ronvalencia (26541 posts) -

@tormentos said:
@ronvalencia said:

Your dismissive of W5000 makes you a marketing name follower instead of focusing the actual hardware involved.

Do the math on RDR2's pixel count difference and compare it to XBO/PS4/PS4 Pro TFLOPS difference. You will find it's mostly CU power influenced.

X1X's RDR2 4K result with 6 TFLOPS shows different improvements from TFLOPS path.

Hint: 7970 still has 32 ROPS is STILL superior to 7870. I trust NVIDIA's Maxwell/Pascal codebase analytics and profiling to configure their GPUs. I don't think AMD has done proper profiling with existing code base.

The xbox one was a 14CU 7790,with 2 CU disable for yields and 16ROP it was bonaire all alone.

And even Digital foundry agree.

The xbox one X perform better than the Pro because it has more power and the extra memory doesn't hurt either.

On 16 ROPS vs 32 ROPS issue

http://www.benchmark.pl/testy_i_recenzje/radeon-rx460-test/strona/26546.html

With Doom Vulkan at 1920x1080p

Radeon RX-460 (2.1 TFLOPS) with 105 GB/s 128bit memory bandwidth and 16 ROPSat 1200 Mhz (equivalent to 22 ROPS at 853 Mhz) boost yields 69 fps average beating R7-260X (7790 renamed with 1100Mhz )'s 43 fps average. RX 460 rivals R7-370 Pitcairn based GPUs.

RX-460's 69 fps average approaches Tonga based R9 380's 81 fps average. Asus Radeon RX 460 with 1256 Mhz reached 72 fps average.

Specs compared

RX-460 has 14 CU with 16 ROPS at 1200Mhz, 1MB L2 cache for compute/TMU read-write path, ~105 GB/s BW, Polaris delta color compression which restores BW after efficiency BW lost.

R7-260X has 14 CU with 16 ROPS at 1100 Mhz, 512 KB L2 cache for compute/TMU for compute/TMU read-write path, 96 GB/s BW(~67 GB/s effective with 70 percent efficiency),

RX-460 obliterates 750 Ti Maxwell v1

Your 16 ROPS vs 32 ROPS argument is flawed.

RX-560 with 16 CU/16 ROPS was displaced by RX Vega Pro 16 with gfx9 improvements i.e. RPM and ROPS with L2 connection. This is different from Kabylake's Vega M with only ROPS improvements. RX Vega Pro 16 to be displaced by RX 3060 small Navi (with RX-580 equivalent).

Doom's optimizations, mostly async compute and GCN intrinsics. Async compute is not unique to Doom. GCN intrinsics was big deal for PC with AMD GPUs but not for consoles since they already has access to GCN intrinsics

PS4 or R7-265 with ~123 GB/s effective with 70 percent efficiency memory bandwidth beats 7790!

Your 16 ROPS vs 32 ROPS argument is a red herring to other problems with XBO's GPU.

My W5000 example removes 32 MB SRAM issue (split render or tile render workarounds) while still being bound by 12 CU.

XBO's ROPS read/write bound issue = TMU read/write workaround. Not consistent since this workaround needs developer's intervention. X1X GPU increased to 32 ROPS at 1172 Mhz clock speed with custom 2MB render cache and Polaris delta color compression.

XBO's Memory bandwidth bound issue = split render (render to DDR3 and ESRAM at the same time) or software tile render workaround. Not consistent since this workaround needs developer's intervention. X1X removed XBO's slow 32 MB ESRAM design. X1X GPU has L2 cache like low latency/high bandwidth custom 2MB render cache and Polaris delta color compression.

XBO's CU bound issue = No workaround solution. X1X GPU moved to 2nd tier GCN design with updated Hawaii based 44/40 CU layout below 1st tier Vega X 64/56 CU layout. PC didn't receive updated Hawaii 44CU/40CU based GPU. Navi 12 40 CU is the closest for PC's Hawaii GCN update.

PS4 was designed with 3rd tier GCN during year 2013 which is below 1st tier R9-290X and 2nd tier R9-280X.

Avatar image for the-a-baum
#474 Posted by The-A-Baum (1047 posts) -

Avatar image for Macutchi
#475 Posted by Macutchi (6396 posts) -

tfw you read through the posts on the last page of a long system wars thread

Avatar image for Karnage108
#476 Posted by Karnage108 (2476 posts) -

It doesn't really take a video game scientist to know this.

Avatar image for tormentos
#477 Posted by tormentos (28017 posts) -

@ronvalencia said:

On 16 ROPS vs 32 ROPS issue

http://www.benchmark.pl/testy_i_recenzje/radeon-rx460-test/strona/26546.html

With Doom Vulkan at 1920x1080p

Radeon RX-460 (2.1 TFLOPS) with 105 GB/s 128bit memory bandwidth and 16 ROPSat 1200 Mhz (equivalent to 22 ROPS at 853 Mhz) boost yields 69 fps average beating R7-260X (7790 renamed with 1100Mhz )'s 43 fps average. RX 460 rivals R7-370 Pitcairn based GPUs.

RX-460's 69 fps average approaches Tonga based R9 380's 81 fps average. Asus Radeon RX 460 with 1256 Mhz reached 72 fps average.

Specs compared

RX-460 has 14 CU with 16 ROPS at 1200Mhz, 1MB L2 cache for compute/TMU read-write path, ~105 GB/s BW, Polaris delta color compression which restores BW after efficiency BW lost.

R7-260X has 14 CU with 16 ROPS at 1100 Mhz, 512 KB L2 cache for compute/TMU for compute/TMU read-write path, 96 GB/s BW(~67 GB/s effective with 70 percent efficiency),

RX-460 obliterates 750 Ti Maxwell v1

Your 16 ROPS vs 32 ROPS argument is flawed.

RX-560 with 16 CU/16 ROPS was displaced by RX Vega Pro 16 with gfx9 improvements i.e. RPM and ROPS with L2 connection. This is different from Kabylake's Vega M with only ROPS improvements. RX Vega Pro 16 to be displaced by RX 3060 small Navi (with RX-580 equivalent).

Doom's optimizations, mostly async compute and GCN intrinsics. Async compute is not unique to Doom. GCN intrinsics was big deal for PC with AMD GPUs but not for consoles since they already has access to GCN intrinsics

PS4 or R7-265 with ~123 GB/s effective with 70 percent efficiency memory bandwidth beats 7790!

Your 16 ROPS vs 32 ROPS argument is a red herring to other problems with XBO's GPU.

My W5000 example removes 32 MB SRAM issue (split render or tile render workarounds) while still being bound by 12 CU.

XBO's ROPS read/write bound issue = TMU read/write workaround. Not consistent since this workaround needs developer's intervention. X1X GPU increased to 32 ROPS at 1172 Mhz clock speed with custom 2MB render cache and Polaris delta color compression.

XBO's Memory bandwidth bound issue = split render (render to DDR3 and ESRAM at the same time) or software tile render workaround. Not consistent since this workaround needs developer's intervention. X1X removed XBO's slow 32 MB ESRAM design. X1X GPU has L2 cache like low latency/high bandwidth custom 2MB render cache and Polaris delta color compression.

XBO's CU bound issue = No workaround solution. X1X GPU moved to 2nd tier GCN design with updated Hawaii based 44/40 CU layout below 1st tier Vega X 64/56 CU layout. PC didn't receive updated Hawaii 44CU/40CU based GPU. Navi 12 40 CU is the closest for PC's Hawaii GCN update.

PS4 was designed with 3rd tier GCN during year 2013 which is below 1st tier R9-290X and 2nd tier R9-280X.

All that crap mean total and utter shit.

The xbox one is a cut down 7790 deal with it.

Avatar image for ronvalencia
#478 Edited by ronvalencia (26541 posts) -

@tormentos said:
@ronvalencia said:

On 16 ROPS vs 32 ROPS issue

http://www.benchmark.pl/testy_i_recenzje/radeon-rx460-test/strona/26546.html

With Doom Vulkan at 1920x1080p

Radeon RX-460 (2.1 TFLOPS) with 105 GB/s 128bit memory bandwidth and 16 ROPSat 1200 Mhz (equivalent to 22 ROPS at 853 Mhz) boost yields 69 fps average beating R7-260X (7790 renamed with 1100Mhz )'s 43 fps average. RX 460 rivals R7-370 Pitcairn based GPUs.

RX-460's 69 fps average approaches Tonga based R9 380's 81 fps average. Asus Radeon RX 460 with 1256 Mhz reached 72 fps average.

Specs compared

RX-460 has 14 CU with 16 ROPS at 1200Mhz, 1MB L2 cache for compute/TMU read-write path, ~105 GB/s BW, Polaris delta color compression which restores BW after efficiency BW lost.

R7-260X has 14 CU with 16 ROPS at 1100 Mhz, 512 KB L2 cache for compute/TMU for compute/TMU read-write path, 96 GB/s BW(~67 GB/s effective with 70 percent efficiency),

RX-460 obliterates 750 Ti Maxwell v1

Your 16 ROPS vs 32 ROPS argument is flawed.

RX-560 with 16 CU/16 ROPS was displaced by RX Vega Pro 16 with gfx9 improvements i.e. RPM and ROPS with L2 connection. This is different from Kabylake's Vega M with only ROPS improvements. RX Vega Pro 16 to be displaced by RX 3060 small Navi (with RX-580 equivalent).

Doom's optimizations, mostly async compute and GCN intrinsics. Async compute is not unique to Doom. GCN intrinsics was big deal for PC with AMD GPUs but not for consoles since they already has access to GCN intrinsics

PS4 or R7-265 with ~123 GB/s effective with 70 percent efficiency memory bandwidth beats 7790!

Your 16 ROPS vs 32 ROPS argument is a red herring to other problems with XBO's GPU.

My W5000 example removes 32 MB SRAM issue (split render or tile render workarounds) while still being bound by 12 CU.

XBO's ROPS read/write bound issue = TMU read/write workaround. Not consistent since this workaround needs developer's intervention. X1X GPU increased to 32 ROPS at 1172 Mhz clock speed with custom 2MB render cache and Polaris delta color compression.

XBO's Memory bandwidth bound issue = split render (render to DDR3 and ESRAM at the same time) or software tile render workaround. Not consistent since this workaround needs developer's intervention. X1X removed XBO's slow 32 MB ESRAM design. X1X GPU has L2 cache like low latency/high bandwidth custom 2MB render cache and Polaris delta color compression.

XBO's CU bound issue = No workaround solution. X1X GPU moved to 2nd tier GCN design with updated Hawaii based 44/40 CU layout below 1st tier Vega X 64/56 CU layout. PC didn't receive updated Hawaii 44CU/40CU based GPU. Navi 12 40 CU is the closest for PC's Hawaii GCN update.

PS4 was designed with 3rd tier GCN during year 2013 which is below 1st tier R9-290X and 2nd tier R9-280X.

All that crap mean total and utter shit.

The xbox one is a cut down 7790 deal with it.

Your 16 ROPS vs 32 ROPS is bullshit. You're a shallow marketing model name chaser.

Loading Video...

True hardware superiority wouldn't have allowed XBO's foliage (mostly TMU and ROPS usage) to be superior over PS4

Deal with it.

Avatar image for tormentos
#479 Posted by tormentos (28017 posts) -

@ronvalencia said:

Your 16 ROPS vs 32 ROPS is bullshit. You're a shallow marketing model name chaser.

True hardware superiority wouldn't have allowed XBO's foliage (mostly TMU and ROPS usage) to be superior over PS4

Deal with it.

The xbox one has 16 ROP and 14CU with 2 disable for yield the only 14CU is the 7790 period,the w5000 is a 32ROP GPU period.

The PS4 has over 100% gap on several games so yeah it has superior hardware period.

Avatar image for ronvalencia
#480 Edited by ronvalencia (26541 posts) -

@tormentos said:
@ronvalencia said:

Your 16 ROPS vs 32 ROPS is bullshit. You're a shallow marketing model name chaser.

True hardware superiority wouldn't have allowed XBO's foliage (mostly TMU and ROPS usage) to be superior over PS4

Deal with it.

The xbox one has 16 ROP and 14CU with 2 disable for yield the only 14CU is the 7790 period,the w5000 is a 32ROP GPU period.

The PS4 has over 100% gap on several games so yeah it has superior hardware period.

Your 16 ROPS vs 32 ROPS argument is bullshit. RX 460 has 16 ROPS which rivals Pitcairn GCN results.

R7-370 = Pitcairn with 16 CU at 925 Mhz base clock (1.894 TFLOPS) with 975 Mhz boost clock (1.996 TFLOPS), 179.2 GB/s memory bandwidth and 32 ROPS.

70 percent efficiency applied on 179.2 GB/s yields ~125.44 GB/s effective.

This RX-460 has 112 GB/s from 128bit GDDR5-7000 and has Polaris delta color compression.

70 percent efficiency applied on 112 GB/s x 1.5 DCC yields ~117.6 GB/s effective.

7790 has 96 GB/s. 70 percent efficiency applied on 96 GB/s yields ~67.2GB/s effective. 7790 lose to Pitcairn with 156 GB/s memory bandwidth.

With RGBA16F floating point

PS4's 32 ROPS at 800Mhz hits memory bandwidth wall e.g. 125.44 GB/s effective.

XBO's 16 ROPS at 853Mhz hits 109 GB/s ROPS or BW wall.

With RGBA8 integer

Both PS4 and XBO are hits ROPS wall. Both needs TMU workaround to shift towards memory bandwidth wall.

Deal with it.

Do the math.

@tormentos said:

The PS4 has over 100% gap on several games so yeah it has superior hardware period.

I did state XBO's memory setup needs extensive programmer's intervention and it leads to less consistency e.g. Killer Instinct Season 1 was 1280x720p and Season 2 has 1600x900p

W5000 shows the best case that nearly emulates split render or tile render results.

Avatar image for i_p_daily
#481 Edited by I_P_Daily (9468 posts) -

Tormy & ron have turned this thread into...I have no idea

Avatar image for ronvalencia
#482 Posted by ronvalencia (26541 posts) -

@i_p_daily said:

Tormy & ron have turned this thread into...I have no idea

Tormented has rookie view on 16 ROPS vs 32 ROPS argument.

Avatar image for i_p_daily
#483 Posted by I_P_Daily (9468 posts) -

@ronvalencia said:
@i_p_daily said:

Tormy & ron have turned this thread into...I have no idea

Tormented has rookie view on 16 ROPS vs 32 ROPS argument.

Avatar image for phbz
#484 Posted by phbz (3843 posts) -

Unleash the Ron!!

Avatar image for tormentos
#485 Posted by tormentos (28017 posts) -

@ronvalencia said:

Your 16 ROPS vs 32 ROPS argument is bullshit. RX 460 has 16 ROPS which rivals Pitcairn GCN results.

R7-370 = Pitcairn with 16 CU at 925 Mhz base clock (1.894 TFLOPS) with 975 Mhz boost clock (1.996 TFLOPS), 179.2 GB/s memory bandwidth and 32 ROPS.

70 percent efficiency applied on 179.2 GB/s yields ~125.44 GB/s effective.

This RX-460 has 112 GB/s from 128bit GDDR5-7000 and has Polaris delta color compression.

70 percent efficiency applied on 112 GB/s x 1.5 DCC yields ~117.6 GB/s effective.

7790 has 96 GB/s. 70 percent efficiency applied on 96 GB/s yields ~67.2GB/s effective. 7790 lose to Pitcairn with 156 GB/s memory bandwidth.

With RGBA16F floating point

PS4's 32 ROPS at 800Mhz hits memory bandwidth wall e.g. 125.44 GB/s effective.

XBO's 16 ROPS at 853Mhz hits 109 GB/s ROPS or BW wall.

With RGBA8 integer

Both PS4 and XBO are hits ROPS wall. Both needs TMU workaround to shift towards memory bandwidth wall.

Deal with it.

Do the math.

@tormentos said:

The PS4 has over 100% gap on several games so yeah it has superior hardware period.

I did state XBO's memory setup needs extensive programmer's intervention and it leads to less consistency e.g. Killer Instinct Season 1 was 1280x720p and Season 2 has 1600x900p

W5000 shows the best case that nearly emulates split render or tile render results.

Man stop the xbox one wasn't a W5000 which has 32ROP,MS took a 7790 and use that there is no other GPU that fall inline with the xbox one this is history,so basically you are arguing for arguing.

The PS4 had recorded 100% or more gaps,Doom was a very optimised game and was almost always 1080p on PS4 while on xbox one most of the time was 1472x828,the PS4 was basically 60FPS as well almost all the time while the xbox one dropped to the 40's there is no excuse man.

The PS4 was superior way over your guesstimates.

Neither Sony nor Microsoft will admit it, but their base graphics architecture does tally very closely with AMD's Pitcairn (left) and Bonaire (right) designs respectively, as found in the Radeon HD 7870 and the HD 7790.

Yeah you are wrong.

Andrew Goossen: Just like our friends we're based on the Sea Islands family. We've made quite a number of changes in different parts of the areas. The biggest thing in terms of the number of compute units, that's been something that's been very easy to focus on. It's like, hey, let's count up the number of CUs, count up the gigaflops and declare the winner based on that. My take on it is that when you buy a graphics card, do you go by the specs or do you actually run some benchmarks? Firstly though, we don't have any games out. You can't see the games. When you see the games you'll be saying, "What is the performance difference between them?" The games are the benchmarks. We've had the opportunity with the Xbox One to go and check a lot of our balance. The balance is really key to making good performance on a games console. You don't want one of your bottlenecks being the main bottleneck that slows you down.

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-the-complete-xbox-one-interview

Never forget this bullshit from MS trying hard to downplay the fact that their GPU was weaker,and DF playing alone with them..lol

Avatar image for tormentos
#486 Posted by tormentos (28017 posts) -

@ronvalencia said:

Tormented has rookie view on 16 ROPS vs 32 ROPS argument.

I don't have a rockie view of anything and after your whole argument on how the xbox one X would beat a freaking 1080GTX based on nothing but FP16 and your ass kissing of anything MS i would not even dare to call anyone rockie buffoon.

Tell how did the xbox one X turn out did it beat a 1080GTX like you CLAIMED.?

Hahahahhahaaaa

Avatar image for davillain-
#487 Posted by DaVillain- (33063 posts) -

@the-a-baum said:

Okay, that was really funny, thanks for the laughs :P

Avatar image for kuu2
#488 Posted by kuu2 (10942 posts) -

Wow, what happened to this thread?

The X continues to drive people wild.

Avatar image for tormentos
#489 Posted by tormentos (28017 posts) -

@kuu2 said:

Wow, what happened to this thread?

The X continues to drive people wild.

The same it happen always.

As soon as it was proven that the whole year over year crap credited the xbox one X launch everything fell apart.lol

Avatar image for ronvalencia
#490 Edited by ronvalencia (26541 posts) -

@tormentos said:
@ronvalencia said:

Tormented has rookie view on 16 ROPS vs 32 ROPS argument.

I don't have a rockie view of anything and after your whole argument on how the xbox one X would beat a freaking 1080GTX based on nothing but FP16 and your ass kissing of anything MS i would not even dare to call anyone rockie buffoon.

Tell how did the xbox one X turn out did it beat a 1080GTX like you CLAIMED.?

Hahahahhahaaaa

You can't read my "IF" statements and I didn't compared the entire GPU i.e. only a subsystem compare.

I also gave you example on PS4 Pro's RPM (Rapid Pack Math) results with Mantis Burn Racing being beaten by GeForce 980 Ti, hint: GeForce 980 Ti has rasterization superiority!

Try again mad cow.

Avatar image for ronvalencia
#491 Edited by ronvalencia (26541 posts) -

@tormentos said:
@ronvalencia said:

Your 16 ROPS vs 32 ROPS argument is bullshit. RX 460 has 16 ROPS which rivals Pitcairn GCN results.

R7-370 = Pitcairn with 16 CU at 925 Mhz base clock (1.894 TFLOPS) with 975 Mhz boost clock (1.996 TFLOPS), 179.2 GB/s memory bandwidth and 32 ROPS.

70 percent efficiency applied on 179.2 GB/s yields ~125.44 GB/s effective.

This RX-460 has 112 GB/s from 128bit GDDR5-7000 and has Polaris delta color compression.

70 percent efficiency applied on 112 GB/s x 1.5 DCC yields ~117.6 GB/s effective.

7790 has 96 GB/s. 70 percent efficiency applied on 96 GB/s yields ~67.2GB/s effective. 7790 lose to Pitcairn with 156 GB/s memory bandwidth.

With RGBA16F floating point

PS4's 32 ROPS at 800Mhz hits memory bandwidth wall e.g. 125.44 GB/s effective.

XBO's 16 ROPS at 853Mhz hits 109 GB/s ROPS or BW wall.

With RGBA8 integer

Both PS4 and XBO are hits ROPS wall. Both needs TMU workaround to shift towards memory bandwidth wall.

Deal with it.

Do the math.

@tormentos said:

The PS4 has over 100% gap on several games so yeah it has superior hardware period.

I did state XBO's memory setup needs extensive programmer's intervention and it leads to less consistency e.g. Killer Instinct Season 1 was 1280x720p and Season 2 has 1600x900p

W5000 shows the best case that nearly emulates split render or tile render results.

Man stop the xbox one wasn't a W5000 which has 32ROP,MS took a 7790 and use that there is no other GPU that fall inline with the xbox one this is history,so basically you are arguing for arguing.

The PS4 had recorded 100% or more gaps,Doom was a very optimised game and was almost always 1080p on PS4 while on xbox one most of the time was 1472x828,the PS4 was basically 60FPS as well almost all the time while the xbox one dropped to the 40's there is no excuse man.

The PS4 was superior way over your guesstimates.

Neither Sony nor Microsoft will admit it, but their base graphics architecture does tally very closely with AMD's Pitcairn (left) and Bonaire (right) designs respectively, as found in the Radeon HD 7870 and the HD 7790.

Yeah you are wrong.

Andrew Goossen: Just like our friends we're based on the Sea Islands family. We've made quite a number of changes in different parts of the areas. The biggest thing in terms of the number of compute units, that's been something that's been very easy to focus on. It's like, hey, let's count up the number of CUs, count up the gigaflops and declare the winner based on that. My take on it is that when you buy a graphics card, do you go by the specs or do you actually run some benchmarks? Firstly though, we don't have any games out. You can't see the games. When you see the games you'll be saying, "What is the performance difference between them?" The games are the benchmarks. We've had the opportunity with the Xbox One to go and check a lot of our balance. The balance is really key to making good performance on a games console. You don't want one of your bottlenecks being the main bottleneck that slows you down.

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-the-complete-xbox-one-interview

Never forget this bullshit from MS trying hard to downplay the fact that their GPU was weaker,and DF playing alone with them..lol

Your interview has nothing technical which is useless.

Xbox One is not "7790" since it has 68 GB/s DDR3 and ~109 GB/s full duplex 32 MB ESRAM. RX-460's 16 ROPS shows it's capability to rival Pitcairn class GCN with 32 ROPS and RX-460 has similar TFLOPS as Pitcairn R7-370. Hint: RX-460 has Polaris delta color compression memory bandwidth advantage over similar TFLOPS R7-360X (renamed 7790).

Doom is well known to be optimised with GCN intrinsics which is a given on consoles and RDR2 is only available for consoles atm. Facts, RDR2's roughly resolution scale via TFLOPS gap for XBO/PS4/PS4 Pro while X1X's shows it's extensive customizations with Maxwell V2 like performance jump which is to deliver two old school GCN PS4 Pro with 8 TFLOPS results with 6 TFLOPS.

Your 16 ROPS vs 32 ROPS argument is crap since

1 The same old school 32 ROPS with R9-280X (rename 7970 GE) delivers continues to deliver higher performance over any Pitcairn level GCN.

2. RX-460 with 16 ROPS with similar R7-370 TFLOPS delivers similar R7-370 results.

RX-460 has TFLOPS advantage over XBO. It's foolish to not use TMU workaround during ROPS bound situation.

XBO has two main issues

1. Less TFLOPS, can't workaround this problem.

2. 32 MB ESRAM storage size imposing resolution limit. http://www.redgamingtech.com/xbox-one-esram-720p-why-its-causing-a-resolution-bottleneck-analysis/

On X1X, 32 ROPS with 2 MB render cache can fall back to Polaris 32 ROPS backed by higher memory bandwidth with higher data storage during non-micro-tile situation.

Both 32 ROPS on PS4 Pro and X1X with higher performance debunks your XBO's 16 ROPS vs PS4's 32 ROPS argument.

Avatar image for SecretPolice
#492 Posted by SecretPolice (34189 posts) -

Captain Ron, Roping and Rolling taking'em all to school as usual. It's good to be MonsterBox MasterRace. lol :P

Avatar image for tgob89
#493 Edited by tgob89 (2080 posts) -

@the-a-baum said:

What all of that means to actual gamers...

Oct NDP

PS4: ~345k at 1080p

Switch: ~260k at 360p

XBO: ~215k at 4kUHD

Avatar image for knight-k
#494 Posted by knight-k (2208 posts) -

LOL at poor lemmings buying a X1X instead of PC if they want to play the superior version of Forza, just LOL!

Avatar image for SecretPolice
#495 Posted by SecretPolice (34189 posts) -

Pop up Secret sale, this won't last, only two per customer, get'em while the getting is good..

Mention Doc SP and get a additional 20% off. lol :P

Avatar image for tgob89
#496 Posted by tgob89 (2080 posts) -

@phbz said:

Unleash the Ron!!

Unleash the Torm!!

Avatar image for SecretPolice
#497 Posted by SecretPolice (34189 posts) -

@tgob89 said:
@phbz said:

Unleash the Ron!!

Unleash the Torm!!

Hahaha, chuckling pretty good on that one. Well done. :)

Avatar image for tormentos
#498 Edited by tormentos (28017 posts) -

@ronvalencia said:

Your interview has nothing technical which is useless.

Xbox One is not "7790" since it has 68 GB/s DDR3 and ~109 GB/s full duplex 32 MB ESRAM. RX-460's 16 ROPS shows it's capability to rival Pitcairn class GCN with 32 ROPS and RX-460 has similar TFLOPS as Pitcairn R7-370. Hint: RX-460 has Polaris delta color compression memory bandwidth advantage over similar TFLOPS R7-360X (renamed 7790).

This ^^ is bullshit.

This is like saying the PS4 is not a damn 7870 because it has 175gb/s while the 7870 has only 153GB/s.

The GPU inside the xbox one is a 7790 which is AMD only 14CU GPU that fit back then,the amount of bandwidth is different because.

1-MS cheapen out and chose cheaper DDR3 instead of GGDR5.

2-Because memory is shared which mean it can't have the same exact amount as the GPU in question ASS.

So if the 7790 has 96Gb/s stand alone on a consoles which shares its bandwidth with CPU it can't freaking have that because it would starve the GPU it needs more which is why the XBO chose DDR3 + ESRAM,which again is not good or optimal for all cases i may add.

So yeah it is a 7790 and Pitcairn doesn't have 16 ROP it has 32. :)

@ronvalencia said:

You can't read my "IF" statements and I didn't compared the entire GPU i.e. only a subsystem compare.

I also gave you example on PS4 Pro's RPM (Rapid Pack Math) results with Mantis Burn Racing being beaten by GeForce 980 Ti, hint: GeForce 980 Ti has rasterization superiority!

Try again mad cow.

If bullshit you liar..Hahahahahaa

YOU stated the xbox one X would exceed a 1080GTX based on nothing but FP16 doubling the xbox one X 6TF to 12 TF be a man.

Avatar image for ronvalencia
#499 Edited by ronvalencia (26541 posts) -

@tormentos said:
@ronvalencia said:

Your interview has nothing technical which is useless.

Xbox One is not "7790" since it has 68 GB/s DDR3 and ~109 GB/s full duplex 32 MB ESRAM. RX-460's 16 ROPS shows it's capability to rival Pitcairn class GCN with 32 ROPS and RX-460 has similar TFLOPS as Pitcairn R7-370. Hint: RX-460 has Polaris delta color compression memory bandwidth advantage over similar TFLOPS R7-360X (renamed 7790).

This ^^ is bullshit.

This is like saying the PS4 is not a damn 7870 because it has 175gb/s while the 7870 has only 153GB/s.

The GPU inside the xbox one is a 7790 which is AMD only 14CU GPU that fit back then,the amount of bandwidth is different because.

1-MS cheapen out and chose cheaper DDR3 instead of GGDR5.

2-Because memory is shared which mean it can't have the same exact amount as the GPU in question ASS.

So if the 7790 has 96Gb/s stand alone on a consoles which shares its bandwidth with CPU it can't freaking have that because it would starve the GPU it needs more which is why the XBO chose DDR3 + ESRAM,which again is not good or optimal for all cases i may add.

So yeah it is a 7790 and Pitcairn doesn't have 16 ROP it has 32. :)

@ronvalencia said:

You can't read my "IF" statements and I didn't compared the entire GPU i.e. only a subsystem compare.

I also gave you example on PS4 Pro's RPM (Rapid Pack Math) results with Mantis Burn Racing being beaten by GeForce 980 Ti, hint: GeForce 980 Ti has rasterization superiority!

Try again mad cow.

3. If bullshit you liar..Hahahahahaa

YOU stated the xbox one X would exceed a 1080GTX based on nothing but FP16 doubling the xbox one X 6TF to 12 TF be a man.

You're argument is bullshit since 7870 doesn't have 178 GB/s LOL. https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/radeon-hd-7870-ghz-edition.c339

hahahahahahah

It's R7-370/R7-370X has slightly higher +170 GB/s memory bandwidth.

1. The reason for XBO's DDR3 is due to cost allocation for Kinect.

Kinect has impacted XBO APU design and software development plans. Your argument is not complete.

2. It depends on the programmer's following the programming guidelines e.g respect L2 cache boundaries (SPU local memory like programming but without hard wall) and bias use onion links.

Furthermore, you don't know shit with CPU and GPU interaction e.g. GPU is mostly idle while it waits for CPU commands (sync compute events). You failed the basics consumer and producer computer science basics 101. Real life GPU GB/s per second numbers is actually lower due to consumer and producer model. Async compute attempts slot within this sync compute events.

PC also has PCI-E 16x v3 I/O bandwidth (16 GB/s per direction) to VRAM allocation from the CPU side and you failed PC design 101. Separate CPU memory pool means the system is more forgiving when programmer exceeds L2 cache boundaries. PC has CPU extensive large scale RTS exclusive games.

Both Intel and AMD CPU optimization guides has respect L2 cache boundaries guidelines i.e. PS3's CELL programming guidelines are not new e.g. has existed in AMD K7 optimization guidelines.

RX-460 has 16 ROPS and Pitcairn level TFLOPS with Pitcairn level results i.e. Polaris delta color compression memory bandwidth boost debunks your simplistic 16 ROPS vs 32 ROPS

3. You can't read my IF statements and failed to read my PS4 Pro's RPM (Rapid Pack Math) results with Mantis Burn Racing being beaten by GeForce 980 Ti example.

GTX 1080 comparsion is only sub system comparison NOT full GPU comparison, hence why I created Mantis Burn Racing PS4 Pro RPM vs GeForce GTX 980 Ti topic and that's before DF's Xbox One X reveal.

Try again mad cow.

Avatar image for tormentos
#500 Edited by tormentos (28017 posts) -

@ronvalencia said:

You're argument is bullshit since 7870 doesn't have 178 GB/s LOL. https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/radeon-hd-7870-ghz-edition.c339

hahahahahahah

Try again mad cow.

See this is exactly my point,you are a MORON who can't read for shit and who love to argue things just for arguing.

Quote me saying that the 7870 has 178Gb/s ass.

@tormentos said:

This ^^ is bullshit.

This is like saying the PS4 is not a damn 7870 because it has 175gb/s while the 7870 has only 153GB/s.

This ^^ is what i claimed i clearly stated,that your argument was like claiming that the PS4 wasn't a 7870 because it has 175gb/s instead of 153GB/s like the 7870 i MY self ass claimed the 7870 had 153GB/s is on the damn post you quoted how the fu** can you even miss it..

You can't follow an argument you can't read for shit and you did claim the xbox one X would beat a 1080GTX...hahhahahaha