Xbox One: Where It All Went Wrong

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#1 Edited by hoyalawya (344 posts) -

From Jamie Hall Blog - http://ninjamoomin.seshn.com/xbox-one-where-it-all-went-wrong-and-how-microsoft-ignored-the-warning-signs-2

Sometime just before February 21st 2013, the game may already have been over. A battle lost on something as simple as RAM chips, with Microsoft subsequently alienating it’s customers to bang the nails into Xbox One’s coffin in the months that followed. The miss-reading of their customer base has been, in short, staggering. ---

All of that could have been prevented had Microsoft simply dialled into the audience that made Xbox a viable console to begin with – the core gamer. Microsoft gambled for a broader audience with Xbox One, in the process forgetting that the early adopters (and most vocal advocates) in the console market were the people who played games, not the wider audience that might use the system to watch Netflix on the TV. Ironically, it may simply have been that Microsoft’s vision was indeed grander, but ultimately that cost them dearly. ...

Xbox One simply had less room on the chip for graphics processing elements and the dual-memory set up was something developers would need to spend time learning and optimising.

GDDR5 is very fast ram. Until Mark Cerny announced the final amount in the console, most developers had been told to expect 4GB of system memory. However Sony, in essence, lucked out.

When higher density GDDR5 chips became available, all the console maker had to do was swap one set of chips for another in its design – instantly giving PS4 a large, single pool of high speed memory to feed its graphics processor. This set up is easier to program than Xbox One – meaning developers can spend more time on things that make a difference to the ‘feel’ of a game rather than simply getting it running to begin with.

This advantage is compounded by the PS4’s GDDR5 memory not taking up space on the graphics chip – meaning for a similar silicon die size and cost, Sony can dedicate more real estate to graphics. ---

Even if the price of the Xbox is cut to match PS4’s $399, the console is simply not as powerful. PS4 has a qualitative advantage that the most vocal parts of the audience are very warm to. Even with this change, Sony still has the option of selling at a higher price due to the tangible advantage it can point to in the gaming space, or simply stomaching a much smaller cut and still being both cheaper and more powerful. If Microsoft take out the Kinect Sensor (which has yet to prove it’s worth to gamers) then it loses the only point of differentiation beyond what’s under the hood.

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#2 Posted by bforrester420 (3480 posts) -

It all went wrong with mandatory Kinect and their desire to include all of these multi-media functions that are already handled by different devices.

Seriously, without the focus on Kinect they could have sold beefier hardware at a price point that met or beat that of the PS4.

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#3 Edited by Bigboi500 (35550 posts) -

Yep, Kinect was something most gamers didn't want, but Microsoft didn't listen.

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#4 Edited by shawn30 (4367 posts) -

@bforrester420 said:

It all went wrong with mandatory Kinect and their desire to include all of these multi-media functions that are already handled by different devices.

Seriously, without the focus on Kinect they could have sold beefier hardware at a price point that met or beat that of the PS4.

Don't agree. Kinect isn't the problem, the price is. People who don't want/aren't interested in Kinect can disconnect it, lol. But the experience is important to MS's long-term goal, and me and my buds enjoy being able to navigate the system, among other features, with it. The potential of Kinect isn't there yet, but its still there and they need to eat the price difference and recoup it long-term. System Wars online come and go, but the vast majority of the 80+ million that bought the 360 and PS3 are gamers who buy what they like at a good price, and don't really care about championing one company over another. If the price is right and the software compelling, they are in. Sony learned this with the PS3and MS will with the One. Losing Kinect isn't the answer. Dropping the price is, IMHO.

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#5 Edited by clr84651 (5630 posts) -

MS is all wrong. A greedy loser corporation exposed to the public with their BS desires to screw over the consumer that they then were embarressed and forced to withdraw them.

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#6 Posted by Chutebox (42454 posts) -

Kinect. That's it. Kinect is where they fucked up

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#7 Edited by Chutebox (42454 posts) -

@shawn30: What do you think drove the price so high for the X1? Certainly not what's in it

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#8 Posted by clr84651 (5630 posts) -

@Chutebox said:

Kinect. That's it. Kinect is where they fucked up

What about a console less powerful? What about used game fees? What about DRM? What about looking like losers to the gaming world while Sony laughed at them? They F'd up in many ways while Sony played it smart.

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#9 Edited by bforrester420 (3480 posts) -

@shawn30 said:

@bforrester420 said:

It all went wrong with mandatory Kinect and their desire to include all of these multi-media functions that are already handled by different devices.

Seriously, without the focus on Kinect they could have sold beefier hardware at a price point that met or beat that of the PS4.

Don't agree. Kinect isn't the problem, the price is. People who don't want/aren't interested in Kinect can disconnect it, lol. But the experience is important to MS's long-term goal, and me and my buds enjoy being able to navigate the system, among other features, with it. The potential of Kinect isn't there yet, but its still there and they need to eat the price difference and recoup it long-term. System Wars online come and go, but the vast majority of the 80+ million that bought the 360 and PS3 are gamers who buy what they like at a good price, and don't really care about championing one company over another. If the price is right and the software compelling, they are in. Sony learned this with the PS3and MS will with the One. Losing Kinect isn't the answer. Dropping the price is, IMHO.

Kinect is completely at fault for the $500 price point. Gamers simply don't want it for games and the motion/voice commands are every bit as, if not more, easily performed with a controller.

After last gen, gamers knew that Kinect was lousy for games. Tacking on voice commands, that don't work particularly well and aren't that useful, isn't making the device any more attractive for the Xbone's core function: gaming. I don't know anyone that buys a console with gaming as a secondary concern.

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#10 Posted by Epic-gamerz (222 posts) -

bu But teh Balance.

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#11 Posted by Heil68 (57220 posts) -

Yup, I agree. Kinect(lol) has been MS's focus since 2009.

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#12 Posted by Wickerman777 (2156 posts) -

Something is wrong with your link. Here it is:

http://ninjamoomin.seshn.com/xbox-one-where-it-all-went-wrong-and-how-microsoft-ignored-the-warning-signs-2/

I read this yesterday and I agree with a lot of it. Many people like to point to MS's policy decisions as the reason for it struggling (When compared to PS4) but it ain't that, it's the hardware. Poor policy decisions can be corrected but when you design your hardware wrong and release it that's it, there's no going back. The weak GPU and memory architecture were colossal mistakes.

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#13 Edited by Shewgenja (18400 posts) -

But wait, what about the secret sauce?!! The cloud??? Billions of transistors!!

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#14 Posted by shawn30 (4367 posts) -

@Chutebox said:

@shawn30: What do you think drove the price so high for the X1? Certainly not what's in it

I know Kinect is the reason for the price. I'm saying lowering the price, not removing Kinect, is the answer. The argument has always been where is the compelling must have Kinect experience, and I think it won't come from a big name dev as they wont despond money to create it. It'll come from a indie dev with a great idea no ones thought of. At the same time the experience of navigating the console with Kinect, Xbox Fitness, TV integration, and eventual Windows 9 apps are all enhanced/needed with Kinect. Price, price, price is the key. Its not about outselling PS4, but growing and continuing to grow your own business and not lose sight of your vision. MS is trailing behind Sony for more than one reason. But for MS to improve its chances it has to come down in cost, not features. Sony can respond and lower their price too and thats fine, but MS has to get off of the 499 thing. Still, 3.5 million in 3 and a half months, wtih 18 more countries to launch in is far from a bad thing in any way, shape or form. Launch everywhere, lower the price, enable all features and then grow the vision and keep going after games like Titanfall and taking the long approach to developing Gears 4, Halo 5, and Forza 6.

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#15 Posted by Tlgersuperman (88 posts) -

The gap was barely a million, PS4 is in more countries, the Xbox shipped 3.9 most likely around 4.2+ and the PS4 is at 5ish in 40000 more countries.

How is that going wrong exactly? Most likely the sales gap has not really widened much IF IT DID AT ALL. And the PS4 is available more world wide. If the Xbox wnet wrong the PS4 would be 2x+ ahead. But it's not, and is more avaialble, and is selling out more, or so people say.

Now I will not deny the Xbox is losing because it is. Well for now as far as we know, but we also know the gap is pretty much the same even now yet the Xbox has had a limited release so far. So........

I think jumping on calling the Xbox a failure is a bit too stupid to believe. If the Xbox One starts selling Wii U numbers after march then we can all run around in circles panicking.

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#16 Posted by shawn30 (4367 posts) -
@bforrester420 said:

@shawn30 said:

@bforrester420 said:

It all went wrong with mandatory Kinect and their desire to include all of these multi-media functions that are already handled by different devices.

Seriously, without the focus on Kinect they could have sold beefier hardware at a price point that met or beat that of the PS4.

Don't agree. Kinect isn't the problem, the price is. People who don't want/aren't interested in Kinect can disconnect it, lol. But the experience is important to MS's long-term goal, and me and my buds enjoy being able to navigate the system, among other features, with it. The potential of Kinect isn't there yet, but its still there and they need to eat the price difference and recoup it long-term. System Wars online come and go, but the vast majority of the 80+ million that bought the 360 and PS3 are gamers who buy what they like at a good price, and don't really care about championing one company over another. If the price is right and the software compelling, they are in. Sony learned this with the PS3and MS will with the One. Losing Kinect isn't the answer. Dropping the price is, IMHO.

Kinect is completely at fault for the $500 price point. Gamers simply don't want it for games and the motion/voice commands are every bit as, if not more, easily performed with a controller.

After last gen, gamers knew that Kinect was lousy for games. Tacking on voice commands, that don't work particularly well and aren't that useful, isn't making the device any more attractive for the Xbone's core function: gaming. I don't know anyone that buys a console with gaming as a secondary concern.

3.5 million gamers obviously see it different, lol. Jeez, you act as if the One hasn't sold at all and is available everywhere in the world. This is a marathon, not A SPRINT. If it were a sprint the PS3 would have died in year 2:) It didn't. I enjoy using Kinect to voice navigate and Xbox Fitness, Different strokes for different folks. Got 4 main buds with the One and no one has decided to not use Kinect.

@Chutebox said:

@shawn30: What do you think drove the price so high for the X1? Certainly not what's in it

I know Kinect is the reason for the price. I'm saying lowering the price, not removing Kinect, is the answer. The argument has always been where is the compelling must have Kinect experience, and I think it won't come from a big name dev as they wont despond money to create it. It'll come from a indie dev with a great idea no ones thought of. At the same time the experience of navigating the console with Kinect, Xbox Fitness, TV integration, and eventual Windows 9 apps are all enhanced/needed with Kinect. Price, price, price is the key. Its not about outselling PS4, but growing and continuing to grow your own business and not lose sight of your vision. MS is trailing behind Sony for more than one reason. But for MS to improve its chances it has to come down in cost, not features. Sony can respond and lower their price too and thats fine, but MS has to get off of the 499 thing. Still, 3.5 million in 3 and a half months, wtih 18 more countries to launch in is far from a bad thing in any way, shape or form. Launch everywhere, lower the price, enable all features and then grow the vision and keep going after games like Titanfall and taking the long approach to developing Gears 4, Halo 5, and Forza 6.

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#17 Posted by Kjranu (1728 posts) -

I see only one way for Microsoft to salvage their console is to release a Kinect-free SKU for $299 and maybe it can come back.

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#18 Posted by Shewgenja (18400 posts) -

@shawn30 said:

@Chutebox said:

@shawn30: What do you think drove the price so high for the X1? Certainly not what's in it

I know Kinect is the reason for the price. I'm saying lowering the price, not removing Kinect, is the answer. The argument has always been where is the compelling must have Kinect experience, and I think it won't come from a big name dev as they wont despond money to create it. It'll come from a indie dev with a great idea no ones thought of. At the same time the experience of navigating the console with Kinect, Xbox Fitness, TV integration, and eventual Windows 9 apps are all enhanced/needed with Kinect. Price, price, price is the key. Its not about outselling PS4, but growing and continuing to grow your own business and not lose sight of your vision. MS is trailing behind Sony for more than one reason. But for MS to improve its chances it has to come down in cost, not features. Sony can respond and lower their price too and thats fine, but MS has to get off of the 499 thing. Still, 3.5 million in 3 and a half months, wtih 18 more countries to launch in is far from a bad thing in any way, shape or form. Launch everywhere, lower the price, enable all features and then grow the vision and keep going after games like Titanfall and taking the long approach to developing Gears 4, Halo 5, and Forza 6.

Considering that Ryse was once upon a time a Kinect app, I don't think that holds water. The core wants a good game console and the machine isn't cheap enough to gain traction with the casual non-core gamer like the Wii was. In short, it is too many things and doesn't truly do well at anything. It's an expensive machine that doesn't justify its cost and won't for some time. For what it does, it won't gain traction until it is at half of its initial price.

MS has two options. Stick with their current position and lose developer or publisher support or drop Kinect and become a ghetto PS4 in hopes that they can fight back. It should be frightening to be in the type of market position that MS is with this thing.

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#20 Posted by ghostwarrior786 (5811 posts) -

its an accumulation of events, for me my distaste for m$ started after the core games dried up since kinect release. the lack of new ip meant i was stuck playing gears/halo which caused franchise fatigue. then came that god awful x1 reveal which showed focus towards tv and those bs policies like always online, mandatory kinect etc. by e3 i wanted them to clear up their policies but they didnt and the price is ridiculous when compared to the more powerful ps4. also after buying ps3 and playing sony exclusives i was blown away and given sony commitment to new ip ps4 it is.

xbone 1, jump out

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#21 Posted by Bigboi500 (35550 posts) -

@shawn30 said:

3.5 million gamers obviously see it different, lol. Jeez, you act as if the One hasn't sold at all and is available everywhere in the world. This is a marathon, not A SPRINT. If it were a sprint the PS3 would have died in year 2:) It didn't. I enjoy using Kinect to voice navigate and Xbox Fitness, Different strokes for different folks. Got 4 main buds with the One and no one has decided to not use Kinect.

You mean you can't see the difference between early adopters who are fanatics and average consumers? Seriously?

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#22 Edited by bforrester420 (3480 posts) -

@shawn30 said:

3.5 million gamers obviously see it different, lol. Jeez, you act as if the One hasn't sold at all and is available everywhere in the world. This is a marathon, not A SPRINT. If it were a sprint the PS3 would have died in year 2:) It didn't. I enjoy using Kinect to voice navigate and Xbox Fitness, Different strokes for different folks. Got 4 main buds with the One and no one has decided to not use Kinect.

The Xbox One is available in every market in which it is popular. It isn't available in Japan. Would Japan help it's sales? Where is Xbox One not available that will have any real effect on it's sales? Please, tell me.

Face it, there are Xbox Ones available everywhere and PS4s available essentially nowhere. You might be able to catch one online if you time it right. I see very little reason for this dynamic to change.

Oh, you got 4 main buds who haven't decided to not use Kinect? I've got four main buds that neither own nor want an Xbox One.

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#23 Posted by Tlgersuperman (88 posts) -

@bforrester420 said:

@shawn30 said:

3.5 million gamers obviously see it different, lol. Jeez, you act as if the One hasn't sold at all and is available everywhere in the world. This is a marathon, not A SPRINT. If it were a sprint the PS3 would have died in year 2:) It didn't. I enjoy using Kinect to voice navigate and Xbox Fitness, Different strokes for different folks. Got 4 main buds with the One and no one has decided to not use Kinect.

The Xbox One is available in every market in which it is popular. It isn't available in Japan. Would Japan help it's sales? Where is Xbox One not available that will have any real effect on it's sales? Please, tell me.

Face it, there are Xbox Ones available everywhere and PS4s available essentially nowhere. You might be able to catch one online if you time it right. I see very little reason for this dynamic to change.

Oh, you got 4 main buds who haven't decided to not use Kinect? I've got four main buds that neither own nor want an Xbox One.

This is stupid and flawed logic. PS4 got over a million sales when they doubled the country releases, currently it's heading toward 4x the amount of countries, more than double.

@Bigboi500 said:

@shawn30 said:

3.5 million gamers obviously see it different, lol. Jeez, you act as if the One hasn't sold at all and is available everywhere in the world. This is a marathon, not A SPRINT. If it were a sprint the PS3 would have died in year 2:) It didn't. I enjoy using Kinect to voice navigate and Xbox Fitness, Different strokes for different folks. Got 4 main buds with the One and no one has decided to not use Kinect.

You mean you can't see the difference between early adopters who are fanatics and average consumers? Seriously?

You got statistical proof showing that hardcore gamers in droves of 3 million brought the Xbox one?

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#24 Edited by edwardecl (2241 posts) -

I think the Xbox went wrong when they designed it to be more expensive to make than the PS4 even without the Kinect.

Then to add on top of that the PS4 is considerably faster, has a secondary processor for video encoding and network and can access internet services (excluding PSN) without a subscription...

The only thing the Xbox One has going for it hardware wise is the HDMI input, but even then it's gimped (no DVR, no 50hz (without stutter), no communication via HDMI-CEC to cable boxes instead uses an IR blaster which will not do all functions WTF?)

There just seems to be a load of piss poor planning with this console.

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#25 Posted by hoyalawya (344 posts) -

@bforrester420 said:

@shawn30 said:

3.5 million gamers obviously see it different, lol. Jeez, you act as if the One hasn't sold at all and is available everywhere in the world. This is a marathon, not A SPRINT. If it were a sprint the PS3 would have died in year 2:) It didn't. I enjoy using Kinect to voice navigate and Xbox Fitness, Different strokes for different folks. Got 4 main buds with the One and no one has decided to not use Kinect.

The Xbox One is available in every market in which it is popular. It isn't available in Japan. Would Japan help it's sales? Where is Xbox One not available that will have any real effect on it's sales? Please, tell me.

Face it, there are Xbox Ones available everywhere and PS4s available essentially nowhere. You might be able to catch one online if you time it right. I see very little reason for this dynamic to change.

Oh, you got 4 main buds who haven't decided to not use Kinect? I've got a bridge I can sell you in New York.

China could make a difference. Console ban is being lifted there. I have not been in China in 10+ years but there was a pretty palpable anti-Japanese sentiment the last time I was there for work. But I don't think that the Xbox 1 will catch on quickly there as $500 is lot to ask for.

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#26 Posted by Bigboi500 (35550 posts) -

You don't need proof for the obvious. Casual consumers aren't buying a $500 system on a whim in droves. The only ones who'd buy it early on with a lack of games at that price are the dedicated fans who'd buy anything Microsoft put out. Now that those folks have bought one, it's time to attract those other consumers.

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#27 Edited by Wickerman777 (2156 posts) -

@tlgersuperman said:

The gap was barely a million, PS4 is in more countries, the Xbox shipped 3.9 most likely around 4.2+ and the PS4 is at 5ish in 40000 more countries.

How is that going wrong exactly? Most likely the sales gap has not really widened much IF IT DID AT ALL. And the PS4 is available more world wide. If the Xbox wnet wrong the PS4 would be 2x+ ahead. But it's not, and is more avaialble, and is selling out more, or so people say.

Now I will not deny the Xbox is losing because it is. Well for now as far as we know, but we also know the gap is pretty much the same even now yet the Xbox has had a limited release so far. So........

I think jumping on calling the Xbox a failure is a bit too stupid to believe. If the Xbox One starts selling Wii U numbers after march then we can all run around in circles panicking.

I think you're underestimating the extent to which PS4 is beating X1 right now. For one thing you said PS4 is more available. Huh? Maybe in more countries but their machines are sold out everywhere. Meanwhile X1 is widely available. Ya can go to Amazon anytime and order an X1 but when they get PS4 in stock it goes back out of stock instantly. Despite this PS4 has been outselling X1 2 to 1 lately. Were it not for the supply problems it'd probably be a good bit worse than that.

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#28 Posted by bforrester420 (3480 posts) -

@hoyalawya said:

@bforrester420 said:

@shawn30 said:

3.5 million gamers obviously see it different, lol. Jeez, you act as if the One hasn't sold at all and is available everywhere in the world. This is a marathon, not A SPRINT. If it were a sprint the PS3 would have died in year 2:) It didn't. I enjoy using Kinect to voice navigate and Xbox Fitness, Different strokes for different folks. Got 4 main buds with the One and no one has decided to not use Kinect.

The Xbox One is available in every market in which it is popular. It isn't available in Japan. Would Japan help it's sales? Where is Xbox One not available that will have any real effect on it's sales? Please, tell me.

Face it, there are Xbox Ones available everywhere and PS4s available essentially nowhere. You might be able to catch one online if you time it right. I see very little reason for this dynamic to change.

Oh, you got 4 main buds who haven't decided to not use Kinect? I've got a bridge I can sell you in New York.

China could make a difference. Console ban is being lifted there. I have not been in China in 10+ years but there was a pretty palpable anti-Japanese sentiment the last time I was there for work. But I don't think that the Xbox 1 will catch on quickly there as $500 is lot to ask for.

I agree, though it's difficult to predict China without any past data. Honda, Nissan, and Toyota were among the top 10 best selling car brands in China for 2013, indicating that their anti-Japanese sentiment doesn't extend to consumer products.

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#29 Edited by shawn30 (4367 posts) -

@Shewgenja said:

@shawn30 said:

@Chutebox said:

@shawn30: What do you think drove the price so high for the X1? Certainly not what's in it

I know Kinect is the reason for the price. I'm saying lowering the price, not removing Kinect, is the answer. The argument has always been where is the compelling must have Kinect experience, and I think it won't come from a big name dev as they wont despond money to create it. It'll come from a indie dev with a great idea no ones thought of. At the same time the experience of navigating the console with Kinect, Xbox Fitness, TV integration, and eventual Windows 9 apps are all enhanced/needed with Kinect. Price, price, price is the key. Its not about outselling PS4, but growing and continuing to grow your own business and not lose sight of your vision. MS is trailing behind Sony for more than one reason. But for MS to improve its chances it has to come down in cost, not features. Sony can respond and lower their price too and thats fine, but MS has to get off of the 499 thing. Still, 3.5 million in 3 and a half months, wtih 18 more countries to launch in is far from a bad thing in any way, shape or form. Launch everywhere, lower the price, enable all features and then grow the vision and keep going after games like Titanfall and taking the long approach to developing Gears 4, Halo 5, and Forza 6.

Considering that Ryse was once upon a time a Kinect app, I don't think that holds water. The core wants a good game console and the machine isn't cheap enough to gain traction with the casual non-core gamer like the Wii was. In short, it is too many things and doesn't truly do well at anything. It's an expensive machine that doesn't justify its cost and won't for some time. For what it does, it won't gain traction until it is at half of its initial price.

MS has two options. Stick with their current position and lose developer or publisher support or drop Kinect and become a ghetto PS4 in hopes that they can fight back. It should be frightening to be in the type of market position that MS is with this thing.

The position they are in after 3 months, with the higher price, haven't debuted in the other 19 countries and before Titanfall is fine so long as they plan ahead. They are not in some terrible position at all, and have the money and means to do very well going forward. Anyone who enjoys the system you right off, lol, as if no one does. 3.5 million do, and thats before the 19 country launch and Titanfall. Both will aid in pushing the system forward. But to see the games MS has coming, what they have sold so far at a higher price, and that they still have to get into 19 more markets and feel the boat is sinking is reeking of a psychic ability I do not think you have. They must be smart going forward, yes. They have issues, yes. But he one does alot of things well and is updating and getting better. Its all about if you value what it does or you do not. Think of it this way. The PS4 is more powerful and has a ton of 1080p games coming, but I don't value resolution. I don't need you to justify why you do. I just don't want the console right now cause I see no reason to buy it. Its all opinion when it comes to features. 3.5 million at a 499 price tag is no small thing in this day and age after 3 and a half months. If that's all it takes to think the One is doomed you must be telling your friends with Sony stock to sell now from the state the corporation is in.

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#30 Posted by bezza2011 (2729 posts) -

What nailed the coffin shut on Xbox One for the time being, is the whole All In One box concept they are going for.

But I'm sorry anyone who buys this rubbish is an idiot. One box it is not, you need a cable box (which alot of people don't have anyway), your'll need an external harddrive once you've filled up the internal one which can't be changed, I mean this all in one box ends up being 3 boxes by the end of the year.

Except the fact I'm from the UK and it isn't even out over here yet and still trying to sell me the same rubbish, not being funny but i have cable, i pay good money for it, it does the job perfectly, it remembers what i like, it records what i want and i already know the channels anyway, thats what they specialize in,

Xbox One Is a doer of all things but a master of non and thats the problem, they have tried to hit a market what isn't even there, when there preaching to the gamers.

and the hard fact is, PS4 is superior in hardware, there competing for pretty much the same space at the moment, there main source of income is the third party games and facts are facts there playing better on PS4 out of the gate and this in time will only get better,

Kinect is a big miss aswel how can you sell an Xbox One with Kinect without any game to actually show it off, even Sony managed a small component within the ps4 to show off what the camera can do, but we got nothing

and finally the price is to high, I mean how does a ps4 have 8gb of GDDR5 Ram a better gpu, a faster UI and is so small i cannot believe it, to the Xbox One with DDR3 Ram a inferior gpu and is massive in size with a kinect for 100 more, i mean, seriously something is just not right there.

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#31 Posted by Tlgersuperman (88 posts) -

@Wickerman777 said:

@tlgersuperman said:

The gap was barely a million, PS4 is in more countries, the Xbox shipped 3.9 most likely around 4.2+ and the PS4 is at 5ish in 40000 more countries.

How is that going wrong exactly? Most likely the sales gap has not really widened much IF IT DID AT ALL. And the PS4 is available more world wide. If the Xbox wnet wrong the PS4 would be 2x+ ahead. But it's not, and is more avaialble, and is selling out more, or so people say.

Now I will not deny the Xbox is losing because it is. Well for now as far as we know, but we also know the gap is pretty much the same even now yet the Xbox has had a limited release so far. So........

I think jumping on calling the Xbox a failure is a bit too stupid to believe. If the Xbox One starts selling Wii U numbers after march then we can all run around in circles panicking.

I think you're underestimating the extent to which PS4 is beating X1 right now. For one thing you said PS4 is more available. Huh? Maybe in more countries but their machines are sold out everywher

You literally quoted exactly what i just said. Please read whole posts.

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#32 Edited by hoyalawya (344 posts) -

@bforrester420 said:

@hoyalawya said:

@bforrester420 said:

@shawn30 said:

3.5 million gamers obviously see it different, lol. Jeez, you act as if the One hasn't sold at all and is available everywhere in the world. This is a marathon, not A SPRINT. If it were a sprint the PS3 would have died in year 2:) It didn't. I enjoy using Kinect to voice navigate and Xbox Fitness, Different strokes for different folks. Got 4 main buds with the One and no one has decided to not use Kinect.

The Xbox One is available in every market in which it is popular. It isn't available in Japan. Would Japan help it's sales? Where is Xbox One not available that will have any real effect on it's sales? Please, tell me.

Face it, there are Xbox Ones available everywhere and PS4s available essentially nowhere. You might be able to catch one online if you time it right. I see very little reason for this dynamic to change.

Oh, you got 4 main buds who haven't decided to not use Kinect? I've got a bridge I can sell you in New York.

China could make a difference. Console ban is being lifted there. I have not been in China in 10+ years but there was a pretty palpable anti-Japanese sentiment the last time I was there for work. But I don't think that the Xbox 1 will catch on quickly there as $500 is lot to ask for.

I agree, though it's difficult to predict China without any past data. Honda, Nissan, and Toyota were among the top 10 best selling car brands in China for 2013, indicating that their anti-Japanese sentiment doesn't extend to consumer products.

Ford and Buick sold more in China than any Japanese brand. That should say something.

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#33 Edited by bforrester420 (3480 posts) -

@hoyalawya said:

@bforrester420 said:

@hoyalawya said:

@bforrester420 said:

@shawn30 said:

3.5 million gamers obviously see it different, lol. Jeez, you act as if the One hasn't sold at all and is available everywhere in the world. This is a marathon, not A SPRINT. If it were a sprint the PS3 would have died in year 2:) It didn't. I enjoy using Kinect to voice navigate and Xbox Fitness, Different strokes for different folks. Got 4 main buds with the One and no one has decided to not use Kinect.

The Xbox One is available in every market in which it is popular. It isn't available in Japan. Would Japan help it's sales? Where is Xbox One not available that will have any real effect on it's sales? Please, tell me.

Face it, there are Xbox Ones available everywhere and PS4s available essentially nowhere. You might be able to catch one online if you time it right. I see very little reason for this dynamic to change.

Oh, you got 4 main buds who haven't decided to not use Kinect? I've got a bridge I can sell you in New York.

China could make a difference. Console ban is being lifted there. I have not been in China in 10+ years but there was a pretty palpable anti-Japanese sentiment the last time I was there for work. But I don't think that the Xbox 1 will catch on quickly there as $500 is lot to ask for.

I agree, though it's difficult to predict China without any past data. Honda, Nissan, and Toyota were among the top 10 best selling car brands in China for 2013, indicating that their anti-Japanese sentiment doesn't extend to consumer products.

Ford and Buick sold more in China than any Japanese brand. That should say something.

One Buick model, but as a brand the Japanese did better than Buick. Ford sells pretty well just about everywhere. Ford sells better than the Japanese in Europe, but that doesn't mean Europe shows anti-Japanese consumer tendencies. VW (1), Hyundai (2), Ford (3), and Toyota (4) are the top 4 vehicles by brand in China.

If China were really anti-Japanese on consumer goods, their brands would sell like the Xbox does in Japan.

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#34 Posted by xxyetixx (2606 posts) -

It all went wrong at E3 where MS poorly announce their vision for the X1. Information was poorly conveyed, there was back lash on what they were announcing, and there was miscommunication between MS and potential consumers. Everyone got all bent out of shape and demanded change and MS did a 180 and changed the X1. MS doing that wasn't good. I wanted to see where and what MS had in mind with the X1. I wasn't afraid of the DRM the always online, or anything else they announced. I like to think that a company isn't completely retarded whether it's Sony or MS, MS wouldn't of made a X1 that you wouldn't be able to use offline. X1 wouldn't of been a paper weight without the internet. I wanted to see things move forward and MS make changes to advance how console gaming is brought to people. I think doing the 180 only hurt things in the long run but also give MS a little advantage cause they can release the X1 and at the next E3 they can repacked and debut "new" features for the X1 like the game sharing and other features and show them to the community in a better light and people will actually be excited about them this time around. So all in all it was just MS or Don Mattricks arrogant way of announce the X1 it was poor and uninformative to the public and should of been repackaged and represented in a better way.

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#35 Edited by Mystery_Writer (8273 posts) -

Everyone and their dog kept (all through from the leaked specs to launch) warning Microsoft about lack of power and bundled Kinect .

They have nobody to blame but themselves.

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#36 Posted by lynux3 (7269 posts) -

Inferior hardware, poor first party studios, Kinect, dismantled upper management, etc. It was all wrong even before it launched. Anyone could see this happening mid life of the 360 when Microsoft stopped releasing quality exclusives for the console.

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#37 Edited by kingtito (8258 posts) -

@clr84651 said:

@Chutebox said:

Kinect. That's it. Kinect is where they fucked up

What about a console less powerful? What about used game fees? What about DRM? What about looking like losers to the gaming world while Sony laughed at them? They F'd up in many ways while Sony played it smart.

What about used games fees? That never happened so how is that a negative?

What about DRM? That never happened either so how is that a negative?

The rest is pure fanboy BS as usual. You listed things that never happened as negatives. That only shows what an ignorant fanboy you really are.

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#38 Edited by Seabas989 (12982 posts) -

Right now Kinect.

Last year was a PR nightmare for MS.

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#39 Posted by shellcase86 (3245 posts) -

There were a few instances I wanted to jump on the MSFT bandwagon last gen, but I just saw too much that put me off of their platform entirely.

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#40 Posted by applefan1991 (3387 posts) -

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