Xbox accuses Sony of paying devs Game Pass block fees.

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nintendoboy16

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#1 nintendoboy16
Member since 2007 • 41527 Posts

VGC

Microsoft has claimed that Sony pays developers for “blocking rights” in return for them agreeing not to put their content on its Xbox Game Pass subscription service.

As part of a document sent to Brazil’s Administrative Council for Economic Defense (CADE) to justify its proposed acquisition of Activision Blizzard, the Xbox firm claimed that Sony actively attempts to “inhibit growth” of Game Pass by trying to prevent content appearing on it.

The comments are part of Microsoft’s response to Sony’s claims to the Brazilian body – which makes much of its responses public – that Xbox acquiring Call of Duty would be anti-competitive.

“Considering that exclusivity strategies have been at the core of Sony’s strategy to strengthen its presence in the games industry, and that Sony is a leader in the distribution of digital games, Sony’s concern with possible exclusivity of Activision‘s content is incoherent, to say the least,” Microsoft claims in the documents published by CADE.

“It only reveals, once again, a fear about an innovative business model that offers high-quality content at low costs to gamers, threatening a leadership that has been forged from a device-centric and exclusivity-focused strategy over the years.”

It then claims: “Indeed, Microsoft’s ability to continue expanding Game Pass has been obstructed by Sony’s desire to inhibit such growth. Sony pays for ‘blocking rights’ to prevent developers from adding content to Game Pass and other competing subscription services.”

These kinds of platform deals have been common in the games industry, and reference was even made to PlayStation blocking third-party games appearing on Game Pass in docs revealed as part of last year’s Epic vs. Apple lawsuit.

The remainder of its response, and two further claims under the same section, are redacted in the document, presumably for confidentiality purposes.

Elsewhere in the document, Microsoft claimed that Sony “does not want attractive subscription services to threaten its dominance in the digital distribution market for console games,” arguing: “In other words, Sony rails against the introduction of new monetization models capable of challenging its business model.”

Last month Sony was one of a number of third-party companies (including Bandai Namco and Ubisoft) that submitted their opinions to CADE on the pending Microsoft acquisition of Activision Blizzard.

Sony claimed that the acquisition could influence users to switch to Xbox because it is “an essential game – a blockbuster, an AAA-type game that has no rival”.

Microsoft’s head of gaming Phil Spencer confirmed in January that it was his intention to keep Call of Duty on PlayStation platforms should Microsoft’s acquisition of Activision Blizzard be completed.

However, it was later claimed that Activision Blizzard is contractually committed to releasing only the next three Call of Duty games for PlayStation consoles, including this year’s Modern Warfare 2.

Well... not sure MS should be talking given the purchases they made. But this IS how Sony has been since the PlayStation was born, so...

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deactivated-63d2876fd4204

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#2 deactivated-63d2876fd4204
Member since 2016 • 9129 Posts

The only way this would work, is if Sony was paying more to keep games off Game Pass than Xbox was offering for games to appear on the service.

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Archangel3371

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#3 Archangel3371
Member since 2004 • 44140 Posts

Certainly doesn’t surprise me. Kind thought that this was mentioned before awhile ago.

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hardwenzen

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#4 hardwenzen
Member since 2005 • 38813 Posts

TC doesn't like Sony. Oh he hates them so much.

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Nonstop-Madness

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#5 Nonstop-Madness
Member since 2008 • 12303 Posts

They definitely do if they own the marketing rights or, have some sort of larger agreement with the publisher.

Either way, games aren't landing on GamePass for free either; publishers are getting paid by Microsoft in some form or another and it's very likely much less than the MSRP.

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navyguy21

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#6 navyguy21
Member since 2003 • 17423 Posts

@goldenelementxl said:

The only way this would work, is if Sony was paying more to keep games off Game Pass than Xbox was offering for games to appear on the service.

Or as a part of the exclusivity or publishing agreement.

About a year ago, ther rumor was that Sony requires that if a game came to PS first, it wasnt allowed to be put on GP.

This report lends some credibility to that.

Sony has been playing hardball, especially with smaller developers, when it comes to GP

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mazuiface

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#7  Edited By mazuiface
Member since 2016 • 1604 Posts

Hilarious accusation from a giant, 2 trillion dollar tech company. This has been Microsoft's MO in literally every market its entered. Ever. Even Halo started as a Mac OS game and was money-hatted.

Square-Enix games like The Last Remnant that never made it to PS3 and the noteworthy mention of Tales of Vesperia, money-hatted so they would not appear on Playstation until a decade later...

This back and forth is getting so, so ridiculous.

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X_CAPCOM_X

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#8 X_CAPCOM_X
Member since 2004 • 9552 Posts

Hilarious. Is this supposed to make consumers think the poor multi trillion dollar biggest tech company is a victim of bullying? How did persona 5 get removed from playstation plus collection and added to gamepass then?

We know this is how these companies do business.

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Chutebox

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#9 Chutebox
Member since 2007 • 50552 Posts

Awww, poor MS.

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mazuiface

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#10 mazuiface
Member since 2016 • 1604 Posts

@X_CAPCOM_X said:

How did persona 5 get removed from playstation plus collection and added to gamepass then?

Poor 2 Trillion dollar tech company that is larger than Google alleges that it is the victim of the exact thing it just did last month.

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nintendoboy16

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#11 nintendoboy16
Member since 2007 • 41527 Posts

@hardwenzen said:

TC doesn't like Sony. Oh he hates them so much.

Nope. Just a lot of their slimy actions have slipped under the rug around here.

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mazuiface

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#12 mazuiface
Member since 2016 • 1604 Posts

@nintendoboy16: Hey did you know that Halo began as a Mac OS game and was money-hatted?

This whole spat between these companies is a big nothing burger.

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nintendoboy16

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#13 nintendoboy16
Member since 2007 • 41527 Posts

@mazuiface said:

@nintendoboy16: Hey did you know that Halo began as a Mac OS game and was money-hatted?

This whole spat between these companies is a big nothing burger.

Did you miss this like a customer asking a cashier if they were open?

Well... not sure MS should be talking given the purchases they made.

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Boiled-Hotdug

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#14 Boiled-Hotdug
Member since 2022 • 296 Posts

Sony afraid of Game Pass...lmao

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KvallyX

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#15 KvallyX
Member since 2019 • 12944 Posts

Fucking Sony 😂

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mazuiface

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#16  Edited By mazuiface
Member since 2016 • 1604 Posts
@nintendoboy16 said:
@mazuiface said:

@nintendoboy16: Hey did you know that Halo began as a Mac OS game and was money-hatted?

This whole spat between these companies is a big nothing burger.

Did you miss this like a customer asking a cashier if they were open?

Well... not sure MS should be talking given the purchases they made.

There are so many to refer to, however, I asked a specific question and didn't get a specific answer - and especially Halo, since it's seen as Microsoft's claim to fame in gaming - just like Final Fantasy VII, which Sony footed the bill for, and then produced. What's the big deal?

The difference is that you're calling it "slimy" when Sony is doing it, when it is just business as usual for any of these companies, even Nintendo who has had exclusivity deals with Capcom in the GC days and bought Monolith Soft (Also honorable mention goes to SMT V, which is confined to Switch due to what you call a "slimy" exclusivity deal.) At least Nintendo and Sony nurture the studios they acquire.

For the supposed "good guys" who think console wars are bad, MS seems to employ the language of console wars in their legal documents.

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st_monica

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#17 st_monica
Member since 2020 • 1454 Posts

What now? Is Spencerboy whining again because Sony won't release Spider-Man on Game Pass or something?

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vgmkyle

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#18 vgmkyle
Member since 2004 • 8682 Posts

Irredeemable Sony is so out of line. They are so phony and fake. I applaud Microsoft for calling them out on their BS.

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blaznwiipspman1

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#19  Edited By blaznwiipspman1
Member since 2007 • 16539 Posts

Sony bastards. BTW, who cares about Brazil? Who the heck are they to regulate a company purchase, they're nobody.

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Fedor

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#20 Fedor
Member since 2015 • 11612 Posts

Standard industry business practices.

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Lavamelon

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#21 Lavamelon
Member since 2016 • 849 Posts

I doubt Brazil’s government cares about console wars, most gamers in Brazil play on PC and mobile, console gaming is small over there.

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lamprey263

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#22  Edited By lamprey263
Member since 2006 • 44557 Posts

I think MS welcomes the opportunity to challenge an intervention depending on the venue, then they can depose Sony for the full scope and extent of their exclusivity arrangements and practices over the years and they can use that to defend the acquisition. Sony having had a much stronger market footprint 8th gen allowed them to pay publishers very little not to put their games on Xbox, and because it could be done cheaply they could then apply that strategy to a greater number of titles. I don't think Sony wants that to go public. Probably why they're not making a stink in US with the DOJ/SEC. I am making a guess they might not have that benefit in Brazil which might explain why Sony is choosing to make a bigger stink there.

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DaVillain

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#23 DaVillain  Moderator
Member since 2014 • 56080 Posts

All these gaming subs are everywhere and getting out of control. Glad I'm staying on PC and yes, we have few service but not as bad as console's service are dealing with.

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daredevils2k

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#24 daredevils2k
Member since 2015 • 5001 Posts

Typical MS making up excuses. MS go cry me a river

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SargentD

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#25 SargentD
Member since 2020 • 8198 Posts

Sony is scared of game pass duty

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Pedro

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#26 Pedro
Member since 2002 • 69428 Posts

Did we cover this last year when a document outlining Sony actively blocking developers from placing their games specifically on GamePass?🤔

Money hatting games is never a win for consumers but, fannies love to celebrate the practice.🤷🏽‍♂️

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HalcyonScarlet

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#27 HalcyonScarlet
Member since 2011 • 13663 Posts

@goldenelementxl said:

The only way this would work, is if Sony was paying more to keep games off Game Pass than Xbox was offering for games to appear on the service.

The other way it works is if Sony used it to sweeten the deal for putting a game on their own platform. Games are not freely put on Playstation. Playstation makes most of their money through royalties, a license to allow a game on their platform. And as the market leader, if they offered perks which sweetened the deal it, may put off a developer from the "unsafe" option of Gamepass, which is a smaller market.

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HalcyonScarlet

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#28  Edited By HalcyonScarlet
Member since 2011 • 13663 Posts
@X_CAPCOM_X said:

Hilarious. Is this supposed to make consumers think the poor multi trillion dollar biggest tech company is a victim of bullying? How did persona 5 get removed from playstation plus collection and added to gamepass then?

We know this is how these companies do business.

No, they're just telling Brazil's CADE, to who Sony was ironically crying to about the potential loss of Call of Duty, that it's laughable Sony with their money hatting practices are complaining about what MS is doing.

This has nothing to do with consumers.

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simple-facts

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#29 simple-facts
Member since 2021 • 2592 Posts

MS have Sony shitting it 🤣

The crying over Xbox studios call of duty is priceless

Chin up cows an Xbox studios game won't always be your No1...it will go console exclusive in a few years.....then the real tears start🤣🤣

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PC_Rocks

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#30 PC_Rocks
Member since 2018 • 8470 Posts

Standard business practices and LOL @ people who are saying that MS is complaining about Sony when in reality they are responding to a complaint by Sony outlining the standard industry practices that Sony it self is a part of.

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KvallyX

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#31 KvallyX
Member since 2019 • 12944 Posts

@st_monica said:

What now? Is Spencerboy whining again because Sony won't release Spider-Man on Game Pass or something?

No, Phil is happy that it’s on Microsoft Windows PC.

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sonny2dap

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#32 sonny2dap
Member since 2008 • 2065 Posts

Well this is a better response than last months "Cod isn't that big anyway" type response, much better to go down the road of you have been the market leader in home console sales for the majority of the last 30 years who has used aggressive acquisitions to your advantage (as has every player in this Game) it is rank hypocrisy to now complain.

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SecretPolice

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#33  Edited By SecretPolice
Member since 2007 • 44049 Posts

They're not known worldwide as Phony, the one and only, for nuttin ya know. :P

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st_monica

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#34  Edited By st_monica
Member since 2020 • 1454 Posts
@x_hedon said:
@st_monica said:

What now? Is Spencerboy whining again because Sony won't release Spider-Man on Game Pass or something?

No, Phil is happy that it’s on Microsoft Windows PC.

Sure, he's always been happy about Sony's success. In fact, it was he who turned down Insomniac's offer for an Xbox-exclusive Sunset Overdrive sequel and indirectly helped Sony acquire them. He must be very happy to see the success of Spider-Man for PC right now, haha.

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Howmakewood

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#35 Howmakewood
Member since 2015 • 7702 Posts

standard business

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robert_sparkes

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#36 robert_sparkes
Member since 2018 • 7223 Posts

Looking at the FF 7 remake debacle it wouldn't surprise me.

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Worlds_Apart

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#37 Worlds_Apart
Member since 2017 • 498 Posts

I thought people mentioned VGC as a source wasn't to be taken seriously, or was it another website?

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nintendoboy16

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#38  Edited By nintendoboy16
Member since 2007 • 41527 Posts
@mazuiface said:

There are so many to refer to, however, I asked a specific question and didn't get a specific answer - and especially Halo, since it's seen as Microsoft's claim to fame in gaming - just like Final Fantasy VII, which Sony footed the bill for, and then produced. What's the big deal?

The difference is that you're calling it "slimy" when Sony is doing it, when it is just business as usual for any of these companies, even Nintendo who has had exclusivity deals with Capcom in the GC days and bought Monolith Soft (Also honorable mention goes to SMT V, which is confined to Switch due to what you call a "slimy" exclusivity deal.) At least Nintendo and Sony nurture the studios they acquire.

For the supposed "good guys" who think console wars are bad, MS seems to employ the language of console wars in their legal documents.

Nope. I've derided the Activision buyout the day it was announced and I didn't like when Nintendo bought out Next Level Games either. I knew there would be backlash, even in the political space (Jerry Nadler, Liz Warren, and Bernie Sanders shared concerns). And seeing the coporate backlash is nothing short of entertaining even though it's ousting Sony has the hypocrites they are.

In the case of Monolith, Bandai Namco, a THIRD PARTY studio, screwed them over after the Xenosaga games. Someone had to buy them.

And those Capcom GC games? What happened to that deal, again? Oh yeah, three games got ported to PS2 (knowing how SW LOVES graphics and performance... Viewtiful Joe took a major beating in visuals, like real bad and Killer 7 had performance issues similar to Saints Row 2 on 360) - one of them being a major port beg (RE4, which Shinji Mikami hated developing for), one game got canned (Dead Phoenix), leaving the only exclusive a bad proto-Bayonetta (P.N. 03).

SMTV is leaked to go multiplat, so what are you crying about?

Being "just business" doesn't make it less slimy.

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KvallyX

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#39 KvallyX
Member since 2019 • 12944 Posts

@st_monica said:
@x_hedon said:
@st_monica said:

What now? Is Spencerboy whining again because Sony won't release Spider-Man on Game Pass or something?

No, Phil is happy that it’s on Microsoft Windows PC.

Sure, he's always been happy about Sony's success. In fact, it was he who turned down Insomniac's offer for an Xbox-exclusive Sunset Overdrive sequel and indirectly helped Sony acquire them. He must be very happy to see the success of Spider-Man for PC right now, haha.

Indeed, the more MIcrosoft Windows PC licenses sold, the happier Phil gets. His boner is growing YUGE.

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Pedro

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#41 Pedro
Member since 2002 • 69428 Posts

@girlusocrazy: Beam/Mixer was on PS?

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Heil68

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#43 Heil68
Member since 2004 • 60711 Posts

MS getting cranky at SONY's market dominance.

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Pedro

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#44 Pedro
Member since 2002 • 69428 Posts

@girlusocrazy said:

@Pedro: Was that suggested?

"They even removed streaming on rival services while promoting Beam/Mixer on Xbox."

Rival services were misunderstood for the rival platform. What services were removed in favor of Beam on Xbox?

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dabear

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#45 dabear
Member since 2002 • 8852 Posts

@nintendoboy16: It's a legitimate business strategy. Shady as f***, but legitimate.

It's amazing to me how cows think Sony is so benevolent.

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Zero_epyon

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#46 Zero_epyon
Member since 2004 • 20103 Posts

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mowgly1

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#47 mowgly1
Member since 2017 • 2994 Posts

@Heil68 said:

MS getting cranky at SONY's market dominance.

Blocking game from Gamepass is actually the same as Phil Spencer blocked all future Bethesda games from Sony and Nintendo platforms. LOL.

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nintendoboy16

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#48 nintendoboy16
Member since 2007 • 41527 Posts

@dabear: Like I just told Mazui. Sony got cocky with this tactic after PS1 and PS2.

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shellcase86

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#49 shellcase86
Member since 2012 • 6847 Posts

@goldenelementxl said:

The only way this would work, is if Sony was paying more to keep games off Game Pass than Xbox was offering for games to appear on the service.

Agreed. And we all know here that it is impossible for Sony to outspend Microsoft-- so it's seems like a petty play.

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mowgly1

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#50 mowgly1
Member since 2017 • 2994 Posts

MS scared as shit.