Would you be disappointed if next gen base hardware don't do 4K native minimum? (400-500 USD)

  • 56 results
  • 1
  • 2
Avatar image for rzxv04
Posted by rzxv04 (686 posts) 10 months, 30 days ago

Poll: Would you be disappointed if next gen base hardware don't do 4K native minimum? (400-500 USD) (51 votes)

Probably. 43%
Unlikely. 57%

Would you be disappointed if next gen base hardware don't do 4K native minimum? (400-500 USD)

Target price would be $ 400-500.

I personally don't mind lower than native 4K if it reasonably gives more stable framerates and better image qualities such as lighting, shadows, particles, object qualities and even physics/animation.

In Theory: Should Next-Gen Consoles Focus on 'True 4K' Rendering?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWcRtzjyH-c

Old but probably relevant DF video.

Avatar image for howmakewood
#1 Edited by Howmakewood (5960 posts) -

No, Id rather they get more 60fps titles out

Avatar image for rzxv04
#2 Posted by rzxv04 (686 posts) -

@howmakewood said:

No, Id rather they get more 60fps titles out

That would be nice.

I'd honestly be positively surprised if we even get true stable 30 fps with no dips in active gameplay and perfect frame pacing.

Avatar image for pyro1245
#3 Posted by pyro1245 (5240 posts) -

4K is a waste for consoles. They can't even deliver a stable 30fps because of that marketing nonsense.

Avatar image for BassMan
#4 Edited by BassMan (10648 posts) -

@howmakewood said:

No, Id rather they get more 60fps titles out

This.

Avatar image for goldenelementxl
#5 Posted by GoldenElementXL (3419 posts) -

We need 1080p/60 before we worry about native 4K

Avatar image for scatteh316
#6 Edited by scatteh316 (10253 posts) -

Depends...... after seeing how impressive the 'faked' 4k is in Horizon:ZD, Ratchet &Clank, Spiderman and few other games I believe that native 4k is not needed.

However, there's loads of games that implement CB rendering that don't look any where near as crisp as the above mentioned games.

Ratchet & Clank + Spiderman looks extremely impressive in '4k' mode and prove that native isn't the only way next gen.

Avatar image for scatteh316
#7 Edited by scatteh316 (10253 posts) -
@howmakewood said:

No, Id rather they get more 60fps titles out

Pretty pixels >>>>>> More frames

Avatar image for rzxv04
#8 Posted by rzxv04 (686 posts) -

@scatteh316 said:

Depends...... after seeing how impressive the 'faked' 4k is in Horizon:ZD, Ratchet &Clank, Spiderman and few other games I believe that native 4k is not needed.

However, there's loads of games that implement CB rendering that don't look any where near as crisp as the above mentioned games.

Ratchet & Clank + Spiderman looks extremely impressive in '4k' mode and prove that native isn't the only way next gen.

Sony seems to be doing 1/2 of 4K and CBing but I wonder if they can do 3/4 of native 4K and apply a good CB. I wonder how that would stand against native 4K.

I really want to see "real" implementations of DLSS soon. Maybe Sony will also have some dedicated hardware for upscaling roughly similar to that if they don't already with the Pro.

Avatar image for scatteh316
#9 Posted by scatteh316 (10253 posts) -
@rzxv04 said:
@scatteh316 said:

Depends...... after seeing how impressive the 'faked' 4k is in Horizon:ZD, Ratchet &Clank, Spiderman and few other games I believe that native 4k is not needed.

However, there's loads of games that implement CB rendering that don't look any where near as crisp as the above mentioned games.

Ratchet & Clank + Spiderman looks extremely impressive in '4k' mode and prove that native isn't the only way next gen.

Sony seems to be doing 1/2 of 4K and CBing but I wonder if they can do 3/4 of native 4K and apply a good CB. I wonder how that would stand against native 4K.

I really want to see "real" implementations of DLSS soon. Maybe Sony will also have some dedicated hardware for upscaling roughly similar to that if they don't already with the Pro.

Yea I think native rendering at ~1800p and then CB rendering from there will be quite popular next gen and I can also see the custom CB mods Sony made to Pro's GPU to also appear in PS5's GPU.

Avatar image for sealionact
#10 Posted by sealionact (4155 posts) -

If many titles are native 4k now, why wouldn't next gen handle it? If you add 60fps as standard .... yes, I would expect next gen to handle 4k 60fps. Given the choice of 4k 30fps, and 1080 60fps on FH4, I go with the former .... the image is just much better .... but yeah, ideally I'd want 4k 60fps next gen.

If they can't manage that, I really don't see the point in upgrading.

Avatar image for lundy86_4
#11 Posted by lundy86_4 (53808 posts) -

60fps would be my preference, but for that i'd take something like a 1440p resolution.

Avatar image for scatteh316
#12 Edited by scatteh316 (10253 posts) -
@sealionact said:

If many titles are native 4k now, why wouldn't next gen handle it? If you add 60fps as standard .... yes, I would expect next gen to handle 4k 60fps. Given the choice of 4k 30fps, and 1080 60fps on FH4, I go with the former .... the image is just much better .... but yeah, ideally I'd want 4k 60fps next gen.

If they can't manage that, I really don't see the point in upgrading.

Yea and barely have graphics better then what Pro and X1X have.

And developers will never trade pretty pixels and graphics for frame rate on a console.

Avatar image for ajstyles
#13 Posted by AJStyles (1075 posts) -

I am praying Sony/Microsoft and developers in general heard us and give us options next gen.

They did that with a handful of games this gen which I am grateful for. Make it for 99% of games next gen.

Give the gamers the power to choose what they want.

1080p/60fps

4K/30fps

And anything in between.

That should be standard across the board. Let the gamer choose.

Avatar image for scatteh316
#14 Edited by scatteh316 (10253 posts) -
@ajstyles said:

1080p/60fps

4K/30fps

People have no idea how difficult offering that option is..... If your CPU is maxed out at 30fps at 4k then dropping to 1080p won't get you any where close to 60fps.

They'll have to purposefully gimp the amount of CPU performance they use at 4k to get 60fps working at 1080p which wont happen.

Developers have always pushed the technology envelope on console instead of frame rate...... and that won't chance next gen.

Avatar image for Gatygun
#15 Posted by Gatygun (1591 posts) -

crossgens will be 4k, new gen games won't.

Avatar image for EG101
#16 Posted by EG101 (2014 posts) -

4K is the Current TV Standard so it would be beyond stupid for Sony and MS to not target native 4K for the majority of games.

Will there be games that don't reach native 4K?

Of course there will be but with Variable Scaling resolutions a thing right now, a few dips below 4K shouldn't matter if it means keeping a smoother Frame rate.

Avatar image for Gatygun
#17 Posted by Gatygun (1591 posts) -

@EG101: Variable scaling isn't 4k.

Avatar image for EG101
#19 Posted by EG101 (2014 posts) -

@Gatygun said:

@EG101: Variable scaling isn't 4k.

It is not Native 4K but if it hits 4K a lot of the time it factually is 4K.

Avatar image for nomadic8280
#20 Edited by nomadic8280 (476 posts) -

Well frame rate is going to have to be sold to the masses as the new "graphics upgrade", I don't think the hardware for the price point will be there to get native 4K/60 FPS on next gen titles on a $400 machine, but plenty powerful to get them all 60 FPS at pretty high resolutions. But what do I know.

Avatar image for pmanden
#21 Posted by pmanden (723 posts) -

I think that next-generation console hardware will disappoint me, no matter what, when compared to PC hardware. The days when consoles ruled the earth are over. Unless people are willing to pay $2000 or more for a console, PC will be superior. I wouldn't mind paying a lot for a "pro" console if it has great enough games.

Avatar image for kali-b1rd
#22 Posted by Kali-B1rd (2242 posts) -
@sealionact said:

If many titles are native 4k now, why wouldn't next gen handle it? If you add 60fps as standard .... yes, I would expect next gen to handle 4k 60fps. Given the choice of 4k 30fps, and 1080 60fps on FH4, I go with the former .... the image is just much better .... but yeah, ideally I'd want 4k 60fps next gen.

If they can't manage that, I really don't see the point in upgrading.

You guys say this every generation and it never happens.

Sony for example are heavily reliant on flashy looking games to sell their superiority. Given that the graphics card generations have slown down due to bitcoin mining we will be lucky if these next gen consoles are 2-3 graphics card gens ahead of the current ones... at most... which even the ridiculous high end ones struggle 4k 60FPS on CURRENT games.

Sony will not opt for 4k 60 FPS is Spiderman 2 - Electric Boogaloo looks almost the same as the current gen... because people won't appreciate that as much as they should.

Avatar image for MonsieurX
#23 Posted by MonsieurX (39192 posts) -

@EG101 said:
@Gatygun said:

@EG101: Variable scaling isn't 4k.

It is not Native 4K but if it hits 4K a lot of the time it factually is 4K.

Using checkerboard 4k isn't 4k

Avatar image for unrealgunner
#24 Posted by UnrealGunner (1071 posts) -

Console gamers want 4K native but only want to spend 400-500 USD. You guys are beyond cheap.

Avatar image for chriscoolguy
#25 Posted by chriscoolguy (683 posts) -

I could care less about 60fps, i'll take 30fps with better graphics any day.

Avatar image for sovkhan
#26 Edited by sovkhan (1281 posts) -

From a marketing stand point 4k is better, so it'll be 4k.

But in the real world none of them matters at all ( neither 4k and even less 60fps!!! )

Avatar image for deactivated-5d78760d7d740
#27 Edited by deactivated-5d78760d7d740 (16386 posts) -
@scatteh316 said:
@ajstyles said:

1080p/60fps

4K/30fps

People have no idea how difficult offering that option is..... If your CPU is maxed out at 30fps at 4k then dropping to 1080p won't get you any where close to 60fps.

They'll have to purposefully gimp the amount of CPU performance they use at 4k to get 60fps working at 1080p which wont happen.

Developers have always pushed the technology envelope on console instead of frame rate...... and that won't chance next gen.

This. Every gen we see the same comments of people wanting 60fps on consoles and every gen it doesn't happen.

The only time you'll be getting 60fps consistently is if you buy a PC.

I don't see any reason why native 4k 30fps is unachievable. You can get that kind of performance from a GTX 1070 in many games these days. Including a GTX 1070 equivalent with other custom technology and inevitable dev optimization = 4k 30fps for console price point.

Avatar image for Gatygun
#28 Posted by Gatygun (1591 posts) -
@EG101 said:
@Gatygun said:

@EG101: Variable scaling isn't 4k.

It is not Native 4K but if it hits 4K a lot of the time it factually is 4K.

No if the resolution drops below 4k, then the minimum resolution it drops towards its that resolution +.


So basically if it drops to 1800p at any given moment as lowest resolution, its a 1800p+ resolution not 4k.

Avatar image for Gatygun
#29 Edited by Gatygun (1591 posts) -
@XVision84 said:
@scatteh316 said:
@ajstyles said:

1080p/60fps

4K/30fps

People have no idea how difficult offering that option is..... If your CPU is maxed out at 30fps at 4k then dropping to 1080p won't get you any where close to 60fps.

They'll have to purposefully gimp the amount of CPU performance they use at 4k to get 60fps working at 1080p which wont happen.

Developers have always pushed the technology envelope on console instead of frame rate...... and that won't chance next gen.

This. Every gen we see the same comments of people wanting 60fps on consoles and every gen it doesn't happen.

The only time you'll be getting 60fps consistently is if you buy a PC.

I don't see any reason why native 4k 30fps is unachievable. You can get that kind of performance from a GTX 1070 in many games these days. Including a GTX 1070 equivalent with other custom technology and inevitable dev optimization = 4k 30fps for console price point.

You only get that performance because games are building around ancient consoles with junk tier hardware for this day of age.

Now push a game at 30 fps on 1080p based around ~10tflop, you will need 2x top gpu's to run anything half decent at 4k.

Avatar image for l34052
#30 Posted by l34052 (3902 posts) -

I'd rather 1080p with a consistent 60fps and lots of stuff happening on screen with amazing lighting.

4k for the sake of it doesn't do it for me if it means big compromises with everything else.

Avatar image for magmadragoonx4
#31 Posted by magmadragoonx4 (662 posts) -

For those of us currently playing on ps4 pro or xbox one x going to a lower resolution would be sad indeed.

When those systems were new and barely had any support I really didn't care but now there are some amazing visuals out there like gow that won't be topped without a higher resolution.

Avatar image for scatteh316
#32 Posted by scatteh316 (10253 posts) -
@XVision84 said:
@scatteh316 said:
@ajstyles said:

1080p/60fps

4K/30fps

People have no idea how difficult offering that option is..... If your CPU is maxed out at 30fps at 4k then dropping to 1080p won't get you any where close to 60fps.

They'll have to purposefully gimp the amount of CPU performance they use at 4k to get 60fps working at 1080p which wont happen.

Developers have always pushed the technology envelope on console instead of frame rate...... and that won't chance next gen.

This. Every gen we see the same comments of people wanting 60fps on consoles and every gen it doesn't happen.

The only time you'll be getting 60fps consistently is if you buy a PC.

I don't see any reason why native 4k 30fps is unachievable. You can get that kind of performance from a GTX 1070 in many games these days. Including a GTX 1070 equivalent with other custom technology and inevitable dev optimization = 4k 30fps for console price point.

If next generation consoles release with the 12-15Tflop GPU's as rumoured you can forget about 4k60 on PC for a very long time

The only reason a GTX1070 can do 4k30 is because consoles are using 6 year old GPU's...........

Avatar image for R4gn4r0k
#33 Posted by R4gn4r0k (31589 posts) -

I'd rather 60 fps became the standard rather than higher resolutions.

Avatar image for nepu7supastar7
#34 Posted by nepu7supastar7 (5188 posts) -

I'd be mad if it did because that would mean that I need to buy a new tv just to play it.

Avatar image for jun_aka_pekto
#35 Edited by jun_aka_pekto (25254 posts) -
@scatteh316 said:

People have no idea how difficult offering that option is..... If your CPU is maxed out at 30fps at 4k then dropping to 1080p won't get you any where close to 60fps.

It can get to 60fps at 1080p if what's causing the 30fps at 4k is due to the graphics card reaching its limit. There are games that are CPU-bound like what you said and games that are GPU-bound like what the other guy was indicating.

I think you're both correct. ;)

Avatar image for Zero_epyon
#36 Posted by Zero_epyon (13363 posts) -

from a money standpoint, it would be disappointing honestly. The X was already $500. To be asked to pay another ~$500 for a similarly powered machine would be brand suicide. How about a machine that can do a stable 4K/30 and a stable 1080p/60 option. That's what next gen should be all about.

Avatar image for deactivated-5d78760d7d740
#37 Posted by deactivated-5d78760d7d740 (16386 posts) -

@scatteh316: @Gatygun: I agree requirements for next gen games will raise, but ultimately it's the consoles that set this standard, and I believe that will be based around 4K 30fps PS5/Nextbox performance. It's the more consumer-expected outcome. Do you really think they're going to keep going at 1080p or go 1440p (which wouldn't make any sense unless you upscale it to 4k which isn't a substantial jump from current gen)? Consumers expect a big jump between consoles, not something that does what their own consoles do a bit better (upscaled 4K).

Those ancient GPU's are putting out very impressive performance numbers so far, well beyond their base figures for PC. If the Pro can have graphics this good at checkerboard 4K, why not native 4K next gen? Even a 1070 would be a substantial upgrade over what we've currently got with the PS4 and Pro (and they could go with a 1080 equivalent which is much cheaper these days and will surely be even cheaper in 2020). Also, keep in mind that the Pro is limited by its ancient CPU which was designed to be similar to PS4's.

Avatar image for SecretPolice
#38 Edited by SecretPolice (35358 posts) -

@Zero_epyon said:

from a money standpoint, it would be disappointing honestly. The X was already $500. To be asked to pay another ~$500 for a similarly powered machine would be brand suicide. How about a machine that can do a stable 4K/30 and a stable 1080p/60 option. That's what next gen should be all about.

X1X already does that, look no further than Mighty FH4 for proof. :P

Also, they weren't 5 bills for long. I just spotted a deal offering X1X plus two controllers plus NBA2K19 plus Blops 4 for $529.99. Free shipping and depending on where you live, likely no taxes as well. :D

Avatar image for Sam3231
#39 Posted by Sam3231 (2566 posts) -

I don't care what direction they go with it but the higher resolution in some games is definitely welcomed. It makes the game look very smooth and detailed.

Avatar image for Zero_epyon
#40 Posted by Zero_epyon (13363 posts) -
@SecretPolice said:
@Zero_epyon said:

from a money standpoint, it would be disappointing honestly. The X was already $500. To be asked to pay another ~$500 for a similarly powered machine would be brand suicide. How about a machine that can do a stable 4K/30 and a stable 1080p/60 option. That's what next gen should be all about.

X1X already does that, look no further than Mighty FH4 for proof. :P

Also, they weren't 5 bills for long. I just spotted a deal offering X1X plus two controllers plus NBA2K19 plus Blops 4 for $529.99. Free shipping and depending on where you live, likely no taxes as well. :D

Yeah in that one title. But it's not consistent across the board. Releasing similar hardware for a similar price tag would be a waste.

Avatar image for Shewgenja
#41 Edited by Shewgenja (21456 posts) -

I think 4k/30 will be the baseline of games next gen. Developers know that the majority of console players want the best graphics possible and 30fps is a respectable clip for most types of games.

What I am hoping for is that Sony and MS wait til 2021 so that ray tracing hardware acceleration is far enough along to make an impact. I am also hoping that the next consoles take advantage of the newer HDMI specs and some games play above 60fps. This should be the beginning of the ramp to cross TV/VR gaming where we are playing online against people playing both on TVs and with VR helmets.

Avatar image for SecretPolice
#42 Posted by SecretPolice (35358 posts) -

@Zero_epyon said:
@SecretPolice said:
@Zero_epyon said:

from a money standpoint, it would be disappointing honestly. The X was already $500. To be asked to pay another ~$500 for a similarly powered machine would be brand suicide. How about a machine that can do a stable 4K/30 and a stable 1080p/60 option. That's what next gen should be all about.

X1X already does that, look no further than Mighty FH4 for proof. :P

Also, they weren't 5 bills for long. I just spotted a deal offering X1X plus two controllers plus NBA2K19 plus Blops 4 for $529.99. Free shipping and depending on where you live, likely no taxes as well. :D

Yeah in that one title. But it's not consistent across the board. Releasing similar hardware for a similar price tag would be a waste.

Only similar in design HW maybe but in 2021-2022 with at least twice the power, at the very least, perhaps 13-15 or more GF's, more ram and who knows what else... 5 bills in 2021-2022, where do I sign up? :P

Avatar image for Zero_epyon
#43 Posted by Zero_epyon (13363 posts) -
@SecretPolice said:
@Zero_epyon said:
@SecretPolice said:
@Zero_epyon said:

from a money standpoint, it would be disappointing honestly. The X was already $500. To be asked to pay another ~$500 for a similarly powered machine would be brand suicide. How about a machine that can do a stable 4K/30 and a stable 1080p/60 option. That's what next gen should be all about.

X1X already does that, look no further than Mighty FH4 for proof. :P

Also, they weren't 5 bills for long. I just spotted a deal offering X1X plus two controllers plus NBA2K19 plus Blops 4 for $529.99. Free shipping and depending on where you live, likely no taxes as well. :D

Yeah in that one title. But it's not consistent across the board. Releasing similar hardware for a similar price tag would be a waste.

Only similar in design HW maybe but in 2021-2022 with at least twice the power, at the very least, perhaps 13-15 or more GF's, more ram and who knows what else... 5 bills in 2021-2022, where do I sign up? :P

well something that's twice the power or more would be capable of 4K/30 1080p60(with the right cpu). That's what it needs to be at a minimum. If it can't, then I count that as a fail.

Avatar image for PAL360
#44 Edited by PAL360 (29616 posts) -

No, but 60fps should be mandatory. Anything above 1440p60 for me is great, but considering current gen consoles (Pro and X) are already running games at that performance, we can most likely expect better than that. Probably 4k60 standard.

Avatar image for lamprey263
#45 Edited by lamprey263 (36204 posts) -

It would be a better use of resources not to shoot for native 4K even if it were capable. Even if systems are fully capable to start, the eventuality that developers will push for higher visual fidelity will necessitate falling back on upscaling, supersampling, variable resolutions and such, maybe even opting for 30fps instead of 60fps.

Avatar image for scatteh316
#46 Posted by scatteh316 (10253 posts) -

How many people who've said 1080/60 next gen actually own a X1X/Pro?

After seeing Horizon:ZD and other PS4 heavy hitters at '4k' with HDR I can honestly say that 60fps can **** right off.

Avatar image for scatteh316
#47 Edited by scatteh316 (10253 posts) -
@jun_aka_pekto said:
@scatteh316 said:

People have no idea how difficult offering that option is..... If your CPU is maxed out at 30fps at 4k then dropping to 1080p won't get you any where close to 60fps.

It can get to 60fps at 1080p if what's causing the 30fps at 4k is due to the graphics card reaching its limit. There are games that are CPU-bound like what you said and games that are GPU-bound like what the other guy was indicating.

I think you're both correct. ;)

If a game is not both CPU and GPU bound then the devs are shit and are wasting hardware resources.

A console get's the results it does because everything is run at as near to 100% utilisation at all times.

And 60fps at 1080p doesn't translate to 30fps at 4k if you're GPU bound as jumping to 4x the pixel throughput will reduce the frame rate to ~1/4 (15fps)

Avatar image for Zero_epyon
#48 Posted by Zero_epyon (13363 posts) -
@scatteh316 said:

How many people who've said 1080/60 next gen actually own a X1X/Pro?

After seeing Horizon:ZD and other PS4 heavy hitters at '4k' with HDR I can honestly say that 60fps can **** right off.

That's why I said have 1080p/60 as an option but stable 4K is a must. I understand that most TV owners are on 1080p and it'll be like that for some time.

Avatar image for jun_aka_pekto
#50 Posted by jun_aka_pekto (25254 posts) -
@scatteh316 said:

If a game is not both CPU and GPU bound then the devs are shit and are wasting hardware resources.

A console get's the results it does because everything is run at as near to 100% utilisation at all times.

And 60fps at 1080p doesn't translate to 30fps at 4k if you're GPU bound as jumping to 4x the pixel throughput will reduce the frame rate to ~1/4 (15fps)

We've been there before when 800x600 and 1600x1200 were the norm. 4K and 1080p seem to be in a similar situation although at this point, the hardware might need catching up. The deficit won't last.