With Blizzard dead and Bioware in turmoil, is Bethesda #1?

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#201 Posted by nitekids2004 (2981 posts) -

Hermits hate to admit it.. but Blizzard is indeed dead.

SCII doesn't even have half the staying power of the original SC + expansion.

Diablo series has gone down the drain.

WoW...well.. let's just say fans want Warcraft IV.

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#202 Posted by gamebreakerz__ (5120 posts) -
Yeah.... No. Skyrim is pretty bad, and stop praising the DLC, the devs promised full scale expansions and then made small DLC's. Last Bethesda game I thought was really good was Fallout 3, but they have never made a better game than Morrowind, and based on the current trends they never will. Who is the best developer is a difficult one, Ubisoft are generally pretty good and are finally warming up to the PC. THQ have some good developers under their wing as well, and they are also comfortable with the PC.
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#203 Posted by Socijalisticka (1555 posts) -

[QUOTE="Socijalisticka"]

[QUOTE="DarkLink77"] StarCraft II. /argument.Ravenshout

RTSes have changed quite a bit in the last decade. In order to maintain the competitive sphere of Starcraft (at their mercy as well as of the fanbase), Blizzard had to adopt the same structural designs, with its simplicity of economical management, micro, unit control, base defense, etc. of Starcraft. I think they were caught in between the necessary conceptual changes and the "e-sports" aspect of Starcraft. And this is their ultimate demise.

oh and BNet 2.0.

By 'demise' you mean becoming the most commercially successful RTS in the recent time while also being one of the most critically-acclaimed ones ever made?

Good Game, my friend, Good Game.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum

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#204 Posted by Lucianu (10282 posts) -

Obsidian, CD Projekt, Pirahna Bytes (Gothic, Risen) >>>>> any RPG dev.

And Blizzard is one of the top three devs on Earth. Just because fans took a vocal sh*t on Blizzard because of the state of Diablo 3 doesn't mean they are dead.. fool. Diablo 3 is going to improve over time with patches anyway, the game is time proof. And wen the expansion comes out it'll be perfect.

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#205 Posted by DarkLink77 (32731 posts) -

[QUOTE="DarkLink77"][QUOTE="Socijalisticka"]

Well OP is right about something. Blizzard hasn't made a quality game since Warcraft 3, a DECADE ago.

Socijalisticka

StarCraft II. /argument.

RTSes have changed quite a bit in the last decade. In order to maintain the competitive sphere of Starcraft (at their mercy as well as of the fanbase), Blizzard had to adopt the same structural designs, with its simplicity of economical management, micro, unit control, base defense, etc. of Starcraft. I think they were caught in between the necessary conceptual changes and the "e-sports" aspect of Starcraft. And this is their ultimate demise.

oh and BNet 2.0.

None of that makes StarCraft II a bad game, so I have no idea why you brought it up.
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#206 Posted by CaseyWegner (70104 posts) -

are you even going to address your mixup regarding bioware and bioshock infinite?

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#207 Posted by ReadingRainbow4 (18733 posts) -

Diablo III is a huge disappointment, but it's still better than every single game Bethesda has ever made. And Blizzard also recently released StarCraft II. You know, the best RTS game of all time. And you're comparing that to Bethesda's DLC and crap like Fallout 3 and Skyrim? :lol:

Bethesda is trash. Even BioWare makes better games.

Come at me.

DarkLink77

I'd actually take the jogging sim over auction house the game. I haven't played it in like 3 month's tho, so it might be different now but honestly I just can't be bothered to reinstall it and find out.

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#208 Posted by trollop_scat (2656 posts) -

Hermits hate to admit it.. but Blizzard is indeed dead.

SCII doesn't even have half the staying power of the original SC + expansion.

Diablo series has gone down the drain.

WoW...well.. let's just say fans want Warcraft IV.

nitekids2004

I'm a hermit and I have no problem admitting Blizzard is no longer the same company.

SC2 is just SC1 with better graphics - a huge downgrade from WC3: Frozen Throne.

Diablo 3 is crap, no amount of patches or expansions will make that game good. Free to Play games like Path of Exile are better, whereas D3 you pay $60 for an unfinished game that you also then have to use the auction house - pathetic! Jay Wilson betrayed us all.

WoW was just never for me but I acknowledge it did something right. I think it's hilarious people pay a $15 monthly fee to pay a game they already purchased, just like I laugh at Lemmings who pay to use their console's on-line service :lol: Some frikken people, eh?

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#209 Posted by trollop_scat (2656 posts) -

I'd actually take the jogging sim over auction house the game. I haven't played it in like a month tho, so it might be different now but honestly I just can't be bothered to reinstall it and find out.ReadingRainbow4

The game is for bronies by bronies, as evidenced by the pony level - the ultimate slap accross the face of the true Diablo fans. Diablo 3 is a total disgrace and if it's any indication of the direction Blizzard is headed, which I believe it is, they are dead to me. How else do you explain intigrating facebook with Titan? It pathetic that they think gamers want their RL friends/family to see what they've "accomplished" in a video game; Blizzard is literally run by obese, pony loving neckbeards. I wish I knew what happened to the old talent and what companies they're with these days...

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#210 Posted by ReadingRainbow4 (18733 posts) -

[QUOTE="ReadingRainbow4"]

I'd actually take the jogging sim over auction house the game. I haven't played it in like a month tho, so it might be different now but honestly I just can't be bothered to reinstall it and find out.trollop_scat

The game is for bronies by bronies, as evidenced by the pony level - the ultimate slap accross the face of the true Diablo fans. Diablo 3 is a total disgrace and if it's any indication of the direction Blizzard is headed, which I believe it is, they are dead to me. How else do you explain intigrating facebook with Titan? It pathetic that they think gamers want their RL friends/family to see what they've "accomplished" in a video game; Blizzard is literally run by obese, pony loving neckbeards. I wish I knew what happened to the old talent and what companies they're with these days...

Let me be clear, things I hated about d3. The story obviously, the game stopped being interesting at act 3 for me. my metagame was the auction house, it didn't matter if I found good stuff 90% of the time I'd be in the AH, and that's not counting the Real money AH which luckily I never spent anything on.

Atleast with Diablo 2 you would join trade games and could negotiate.

zero player interaction, I really missed the lobby system from the old Bnet. A ton more, but listing them just get's me depressed. Pony level was really the least of my concerns it was tacked on and I never found it as entertaining as the secret cow level, but it didn't really bother me.

Also for whatever reason there was zero satanic imagery which was in the past 2 games of the series, it felt like a big disconnect.

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#212 Posted by the_bi99man (11242 posts) -

BioShock is not from BioWare. fernandmondego_

Yeah, TC is full of stupid.

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#213 Posted by Lief_Ericson (7082 posts) -

I am currently in love with Dragonborn. Bringing back all the Morrowind memories, K back to playing.

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#214 Posted by TheEpicGoat (2006 posts) -

I'm surprised Blizzard has so many votes after PC gamers hated 2 expansions and a full game from them.

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#215 Posted by MLBknights58 (5016 posts) -

The first time I played a Bethesda game (which was also my first open world RPG game of the sort) I was blown away and captivated by everything there was to see and do.

Several years later, I find Bethesda games almost unplayable with garbage combat, boring exploration, boring enemies, boring NPC's (with the exception of a few really well voiced characters that actually have a semblance of personality), and I could go on and on. Not to mention the numerous bugs and glitches riddled in their worlds, although they are massive so flaws are expected.

If Bethesda is the best developer then gaming ain't lookin good.

I'd say Atlus.

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#216 Posted by hoola (6422 posts) -

They all create quality games, but Valve is better in every way. Not only does Valve create quality games, but they are arguably the most pro-customer developer of their size. Everything they do is meant to improve the customer experience. They are the ones who brought F2P to the mainstream with TF2 and now DOTA2 - that is a massive AAA developer releasing entire games for free. They don't have a gigantic publisher breathing down their necks like Bioware and they haven't become a traditional money-hungry monster like Blizzard.

Bethesda is pretty good, but they just aren't to the level that Valve is.

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#217 Posted by Maroxad (14388 posts) -

Everything they do is meant to improve the customer experience. They are the ones who brought F2P to the mainstream with TF2 and now DOTA2.

hoola

So... making europeans pay in euro was meant to improve the customer experience. Not to mention the whole redicilous TF2 Tour of Duty price.

As for bringing F2P to the mainstream, you mean LoL didnt already do that?

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#218 Posted by WiiCubeM1 (4735 posts) -

Love the Bethesda hate in this thread. Can't stop reading dumb*ss reasons to hate on Skyrim.

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#219 Posted by gamebreakerz__ (5120 posts) -

Love the Bethesda hate in this thread. Can't stop reading dumb*ss reasons to hate on Skyrim.

WiiCubeM1
Refute these then http://au.gamespot.com/the-elder-scrolls-v-skyrim/user-reviews/799473/platform/pc/
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#220 Posted by WiiCubeM1 (4735 posts) -

[QUOTE="WiiCubeM1"]

Love the Bethesda hate in this thread. Can't stop reading dumb*ss reasons to hate on Skyrim.

gamebreakerz__

Refute these then http://au.gamespot.com/the-elder-scrolls-v-skyrim/user-reviews/799473/platform/pc/

1. Your opinion that the storyline is bad, but you didn't give any evidence on how it "ruined the lore" of Elder Scrolls.

2. Have you played the other Elder Scrolls games? There are no puzzles in any of the dungeons, plus they are much shorter.

3. It's an RPG. Level scaling is a staple of the genre, and it's WORLDS above Morrowinds and Oblivions.

4. Mehrunes Razor, Mace of Molag Bal, Windshear, Blade of Woe, Savior's Hide, Nightingale Armor, Armor of the Old Gods, Linwe's Armor, Ebony Mail, Dragonbane, Keening, Valdr's Luck Dagger, Dawnbreaker, Spellbreaker, Ebony Blade, Ghostblade, Eduj, Okir, Volendrung, etc. Those are just the ones I can name off the top of my head.

5. An hour into Morrowind I had a Daedric Dai-katana I found in a mine. That's just me, but whatever. If you're one of those people that spams the crap out of the smithing system by making iron daggers for 10 straight hours and then complains how broken it is, then don't f*cking spend 10 straight hours smithing iron daggers to make amazing weapons and armor. It's a choice, not a necessity. I know people, most likely you, will say that's not a valid reason, but If I can avoid the temptation and not have a 100 Smithing skill until my character is at level 66, why the f*ck can't you?

6. At level 66, I'm still getting killed by Draugr Death Overlords and Ancient Dragons. Don't give me the "it's too easy" excuse. My guy in Morrowind was killing Ash Vampires and Ascended Sleepers, as well as Dremora, by the time I was at level 20, and I still enjoyed the hell out of that game.

7. "Exploration", to me, involves going out into the wilderness and doing things on a whim, finding new ruins and caves to explore and pillage, not spending half an hour trying to find a single person standing around in the middle of a very small area because the compass hadn't been invented yet. It's annoying, not fun in any way. Do you know how long it took me to find the Mudcrab Merchant in Morrowind? 3 hours, and I did NOT have fun doing it.

8. Then don't fast travel if you don't want to. Again, it's optional, no one is forcing you to do it. I don't do it. I prefer to explore the wilds of Skyrim before. I actually like having the Fast Travel system in place because I can't tell you how many times I've gotten stuck in some glitch and fast travel saved me from having to restart to a previous save. When that happened in Morrowind, I was limited to spending hours jumping around trying to find a way out or restarting, and this was before Autosave, so I'd lose many hours of gameplay if I had to resort to that.

9. I hated the guild quests in Morrowind. Sure, they were long, but if you did certain things, you couldn't join a certain group, or you screwed over your progress in another questline, plus there really wasn't that much of an incentive to becoming the leader of anything. There was few perks, few items, just the title.

10. Yeah, like I said above, Ancient Dragons. Even with the stormcall shout, they take a hell of a lot of abuse, and it takes a lot of patience and strategy to take them down.

11. It's an Elder Scrolls game. I've sunk over 1200 hours into Skyrim and I've done very little of what the game has to offer. I don't need expansions to have a lot of long hours of fun with Skyrim.

12. You hate the fact that the Skill Tree is limited, but you praise Morrowind's guild system for being limited? The Skill Tree is meant for Customization of Characters, not to let you become a God like you could in Morrowind and Oblivion. I just beat Morrowind a few days ago. My guy was at level 80 and I killed Dagoth Ur in 5 hits, plus don't get me started on Morrowind's weapon system.

I'll give you this, Morrowind was a better game content-wise, but Skyrim took everything Morrowind and Oblivion did right and polished it down, and took everything they did wrong and fixed them, or just got rid of them. Sure, there's no class system anymore, but the Skill Tree allows for more in-depth customization, allowing for tweaks to certain stats to compliment your character, plus it's the first game where being a mage isn't a chore to become, it's smooth and rewarding. Morrowind had a TERRIBLE magic and weapons system, with a large percentage of failures early on, and when they became reliable, you were a god if you played right.

I can tell you're a guy who grinds his character, and in this game, they streamlined it instead of drawing it out, like the failure system of Morrowind. All of the reasons you are using to refute Skyrim's status as an amazing game are your own personal annoyances instead of legitimate, game-breaking reasons to hate Skyrim. You linked to a review YOU made that listed why Skyrim didn't cater to YOUR play style, and worst of all, they were all small annoyances that are all either optional, non-existant, or can be fixed by NOT GRINDING FOR HOURS.

Skyrim is an amazing game. It is much better than Oblivion with it's broken level scaling, bland dungeons, and repetitive quests. It has many features that are better than Morrowind, being the streamlined leveling and fixed weapons and magic system. It may just be that I play the game differently than you, that I don't grind or try to do things as fast as possible, but every reason I've ever heard to hate on Skyrim is one of 2 things: Personal annoyances or glitches, and if you say glitches are why you hated Skyrim and loved the Morrowind and Oblivion... well, that's just pathetic.

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#221 Posted by DarkLink77 (32731 posts) -
It's an RPG. Level scaling is a staple of the genreWiiCubeM1
I'm sorry, but that is blatantly not true.
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#222 Posted by WiiCubeM1 (4735 posts) -

[QUOTE="WiiCubeM1"]It's an RPG. Level scaling is a staple of the genreDarkLink77
I'm sorry, but that is blatantly not true.

OK, I goofed here. I was thinking leveling up, not enemies leveling with you.

Either way, Level scaling is a welcome addition to the RPG genre.

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#223 Posted by DarkLink77 (32731 posts) -

[QUOTE="DarkLink77"][QUOTE="WiiCubeM1"]It's an RPG. Level scaling is a staple of the genreWiiCubeM1

I'm sorry, but that is blatantly not true.

OK, I goofed here. I was thinking leveling up, not enemies leveling with you.

Either way, Level scaling is a welcome addition to the RPG genre.

Eh... It can go both ways. On the one hand, it can be really annoying because that rat should not be as tough at level 80 as it was at level 1. On the other hand, it keeps the player character from being stupid OP, which is a problem in most RPGs.
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#224 Posted by WiiCubeM1 (4735 posts) -

[QUOTE="WiiCubeM1"]

[QUOTE="DarkLink77"] I'm sorry, but that is blatantly not true.DarkLink77

OK, I goofed here. I was thinking leveling up, not enemies leveling with you.

Either way, Level scaling is a welcome addition to the RPG genre.

Eh... It can go both ways. On the one hand, it can be really annoying because that rat should not be as tough at level 80 as it was at level 1. On the other hand, it keeps the player character from being stupid OP, which is a problem in most RPGs.

Yeah, it is hit-or-miss, depending on the situation, but I like being challenged from time to time. Makes the game more interesting.

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#225 Posted by DarkLink77 (32731 posts) -

[QUOTE="DarkLink77"][QUOTE="WiiCubeM1"]

OK, I goofed here. I was thinking leveling up, not enemies leveling with you.

Either way, Level scaling is a welcome addition to the RPG genre.

WiiCubeM1

Eh... It can go both ways. On the one hand, it can be really annoying because that rat should not be as tough at level 80 as it was at level 1. On the other hand, it keeps the player character from being stupid OP, which is a problem in most RPGs.

Yeah, it is hit-or-miss, depending on the situation, but I like being challenged from time to time. Makes the game more interesting.

I think it works better in The Elder Scrolls than in most other games because The Elder Scrolls is so big and there's so much extra stuff to do, but I'm not a fan overall. In more "traditional" RPGs, it usually only causes problems.
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#226 Posted by Maroxad (14388 posts) -

Love the Bethesda hate in this thread. Can't stop reading dumb*ss reasons to hate on Skyrim.

WiiCubeM1

What may seem like "dumb*ss" reasons to you may be very valid reasons to others.

  • No depth (The perk system was terribly done, combat is also extremely straight forward, equipment system is as shallow as it gets)
  • No Challenge (Played on Master, didnt have any problems at all)
  • No variety (Do I even need to bring up how repetitive Skyrim's encounters, dungeons and overworld is?)
  • No interesting content (Overworld is lifeless and empty, most quests suck)
  • Terrible story
  • Horribad combat
  • Terrible dragons, that are a bore to fight and doesnt do the creature justice (seriously, making these unlimited was a downright terribe idea, what were they thinking?)
  • Bad writing
  • Weaksauce open world elements
  • Smithing/alchemy/enchanting which completely breaks the game
  • A level up system which is quite possiby the worst I have ever seen
  • Terribly done spell system
  • No spell crafting
  • Useless tacked on features that exist for their own sake (read: everything)
  • Smithing which gives you top tier items by the time level 20, killing any need to explore, who needs legendary weapons when you can craft better.
  • Level scaling
  • HP bloating which becomes downright obnoxious if you dont abuse smithing, alchemy and enchanting
  • Rock paper scissors combat, as a guy with a 2h, hope you dont fight frost enemies
  • Bugs
  • Hilariously broken and completely unrealistic perks
  • Horrible guilds
  • Terrible main quest
  • You level up too **** fast (I once got 4 levels without even moving my character)

Skyrim, simply put, is a boring, repetitive, unchallenging, broken mess. They tried to add everything, but the amateurish implementation of it all resulted in an experience that was terrible all around whose only saving grace was its scale. But even that doesnt matter because everything was so poorly done, it was all a bore. Skyrim is the worst game I played 2011.

What to use instead of level scaling? Simple, lower power gain when levelling up. Instead of becoming 2000% more powerful at level cap, just make the payer 50-100% more powerful, far more realistic too.

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#227 Posted by ChubbyGuy40 (26419 posts) -

5. An hour into Morrowind I had a Daedric Dai-katana I found in a mine. That's just me, but whatever. If you're one of those people that spams the crap out of the smithing system by making iron daggers for 10 straight hours and then complains how broken it is, then don't f*cking spend 10 straight hours smithing iron daggers to make amazing weapons and armor. It's a choice, not a necessity. I know people, most likely you, will say that's not a valid reason, but If I can avoid the temptation and not have a 100 Smithing skill until my character is at level 66, why the f*ck can't you?

6. At level 66, I'm still getting killed by Draugr Death Overlords and Ancient Dragons. Don't give me the "it's too easy" excuse. My guy in Morrowind was killing Ash Vampires and Ascended Sleepers, as well as Dremora, by the time I was at level 20, and I still enjoyed the hell out of that game.

7. "Exploration", to me, involves going out into the wilderness and doing things on a whim, finding new ruins and caves to explore and pillage, not spending half an hour trying to find a single person standing around in the middle of a very small area because the compass hadn't been invented yet. It's annoying, not fun in any way. Do you know how long it took me to find the Mudcrab Merchant in Morrowind? 3 hours, and I did NOT have fun doing it.

9. I hated the guild quests in Morrowind. Sure, they were long, but if you did certain things, you couldn't join a certain group, or you screwed over your progress in another questline, plus there really wasn't that much of an incentive to becoming the leader of anything. There was few perks, few items, just the title.

10. Yeah, like I said above, Ancient Dragons. Even with the stormcall shout, they take a hell of a lot of abuse, and it takes a lot of patience and strategy to take them down.

11. It's an Elder Scrolls game. I've sunk over 1200 hours into Skyrim and I've done very little of what the game has to offer. I don't need expansions to have a lot of long hours of fun with Skyrim.

12. You hate the fact that the Skill Tree is limited, but you praise Morrowind's guild system for being limited? The Skill Tree is meant for Customization of Characters, not to let you become a God like you could in Morrowind and Oblivion. I just beat Morrowind a few days ago. My guy was at level 80 and I killed Dagoth Ur in 5 hits, plus don't get me started on Morrowind's weapon system.

I'll give you this, Morrowind was a better game content-wise, but Skyrim took everything Morrowind and Oblivion did right and polished it down, and took everything they did wrong and fixed them, or just got rid of them. Sure, there's no class system anymore, but the Skill Tree allows for more in-depth customization, allowing for tweaks to certain stats to compliment your character, plus it's the first game where being a mage isn't a chore to become, it's smooth and rewarding. Morrowind had a TERRIBLE magic and weapons system, with a large percentage of failures early on, and when they became reliable, you were a god if you played right.

I can tell you're a guy who grinds his character, and in this game, they streamlined it instead of drawing it out, like the failure system of Morrowind. All of the reasons you are using to refute Skyrim's status as an amazing game are your own personal annoyances instead of legitimate, game-breaking reasons to hate Skyrim. You linked to a review YOU made that listed why Skyrim didn't cater to YOUR play style, and worst of all, they were all small annoyances that are all either optional, non-existant, or can be fixed by NOT GRINDING FOR HOURS.

Skyrim is an amazing game. It is much better than Oblivion with it's broken level scaling, bland dungeons, and repetitive quests. It has many features that are better than Morrowind, being the streamlined leveling and fixed weapons and magic system. It may just be that I play the game differently than you, that I don't grind or try to do things as fast as possible, but every reason I've ever heard to hate on Skyrim is one of 2 things: Personal annoyances or glitches, and if you say glitches are why you hated Skyrim and loved the Morrowind and Oblivion... well, that's just pathetic.

WiiCubeM1

The amount of hours is irrelevant. The entire system is broken in the first place. You should never be allowed to create the high-tier armor because you crafted a bunch of iron daggers. Smithing is pointless and you can find all the armor in the world. Thanks to Bethesda's absolutely horrid scaling, upgrading anything serves no purpose because everything else scales with you. Don't have the materials yet? Simply fast travel city to city or reload the save and the vendor will have them. Also must point out that gold also serves no purpose because there's nothing for you to do with it.

I'm allowed to craft potions that grant like 97% resistance and pause at any time to heal, eat, and use potions. Difficulty doesn't exist in Skyrim. Turning it up to Master does nothing other than make NPCs hit for insane amounts. Not to mention random spikes in damage at any difficulty, where a bandit will take maybe 10 hits to take you down and the Bandit Lord/Wizard/ect will spike you dead in 2 hits. It's factually bad design.

I see you failed to mention that exploring offers no rewards or benefits 95% of the time. There's no incentive to explore before a quest tells you to go there. Not to mention how god-awful and boring Dwemer and Nord dungeons/caves are.

That's the entire point. You should never be allowed to have the abilities of every damn class. If you pick to be a warrior, you aren't going to know jacksh*t about the ways of the arcane. You will be one of the most unqualified people to lead a damn magic school. Depending on context/progression story wise, breaking the ability to complete or obtain certain quests makes absolute sense.

And what's so different from them besides an increased health pool and maybe more damage? Nothing. Absolutely lazy design that only Bethesda can get away with.

That's a lie. There's not that much to do in Skyrim. You cannot have played that long and not beaten the game at least 10 times.

But that's exactly what the system encourages. It's blatantly present in every Bethesda game, because they don't know how to design any decent gameplay. Skyrim's skill/perk system is sh*t anyway. There's no reason why unlocking new patterns and abilities with crafting should have anything at all to do with leveling up your character.

But that's implying Oblivion did anything right at all. No sh*t that's what a skill tree does, but classes were removed. This doesn't allow for anything to have depth. It only allows you to establish the base concept of your character and then it stops there.

This is just pathetic. Leveling scaling is never beneficial in Skyrim. All it allows them to do is completely skip balancing when designing the game. Put a base value on all items and scale them by X according to level. No need for balancing at all!

Far from it. If it wasn't made by Bethesda and have Elder Scrolls in the title, it would've been universally and justly hated on. Those faults of Oblivion are still just as much present in Skyrim. Only thing it did better than Morrowind was more responsive combat. No excuse why you should miss when your weapon clearly hit the guy. No point in arguing about glitches or bugs. That's to be expected (and completely overlooked in reviews) when it comes to Bethesda games. The only thing Skyrim does well is the music. Everything else is trash.

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#228 Posted by Kandlegoat (3147 posts) -

[QUOTE="WiiCubeM1"]

[QUOTE="DarkLink77"] Eh... It can go both ways. On the one hand, it can be really annoying because that rat should not be as tough at level 80 as it was at level 1. On the other hand, it keeps the player character from being stupid OP, which is a problem in most RPGs.DarkLink77

Yeah, it is hit-or-miss, depending on the situation, but I like being challenged from time to time. Makes the game more interesting.

I think it works better in The Elder Scrolls than in most other games because The Elder Scrolls is so big and there's so much extra stuff to do, but I'm not a fan overall. In more "traditional" RPGs, it usually only causes problems.

Level Scaling is bad even in Elder Scrolls.Sure,the lvling system in Skyrim might've been an improvement over Oblivion's....but it's still fundementally flawed.

There's something seriously wrong when a fvcking cave bear is more powerful than the game's main enemy (Dragons)

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#229 Posted by DarkLink77 (32731 posts) -

[QUOTE="DarkLink77"][QUOTE="WiiCubeM1"]

Yeah, it is hit-or-miss, depending on the situation, but I like being challenged from time to time. Makes the game more interesting.

Kandlegoat

I think it works better in The Elder Scrolls than in most other games because The Elder Scrolls is so big and there's so much extra stuff to do, but I'm not a fan overall. In more "traditional" RPGs, it usually only causes problems.

Level Scaling is bad even in Elder Scrolls.Sure,the lvling system in Skyrim might've been an improvement over Oblivion's....but it's still fundementally flawed.

There's something seriously wrong when a fvcking cave bear is more powerful than the game's main enemy (Dragons)

No disagreement. But I can understand the idea behind it. The execution needs to be better. Although, that sentence pretty much sums up The Elder Scrolls as a franchise.
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#230 Posted by Maroxad (14388 posts) -

I have to agree that Bethesda's biggest problem is their execution.

I really hope that the next TES games focuses on making **** work as opposed to adding new ****. Sadly, with all the praise they got they may have been blinded and may not realize how horribly broken their piece of crap is. And instead of fixing their long list of issues, they just break the game even more by adding more poorly implemented features.

Oblivion>Skyrim. Oblivion is still ****, but Oblivion still had a few worthwhile moments, whereas Skyrim had none. Skyrim is also the only game where I actually spent more time while the game was on doing anything that wasnt playing skyrim (because the game is an utter bore and those 5 minute peeks at SW became 2-3 hour visits of doing anything but playing Skyrim, whether it was studying, browsing forums or anything else).

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#231 Posted by Ravenshout (1265 posts) -

Starcraft 2 took far more effort to design than Skyrim.

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#232 Posted by tonitorsi (8685 posts) -

Blizzard is dead?

tumblr_lv3jrzpBJ61r6gmj7o1_250.gif

Avatar image for Kandlegoat
#233 Posted by Kandlegoat (3147 posts) -

I have to agree that Bethesda's biggest problem is their execution.

I really hope that the next TES games focuses on making **** work as opposed to adding new ****. Sadly, with all the praise they got they may have been blinded and may not realize how horribly broken their piece of crap is. And instead of fixing their long list of issues, they just break the game even more by adding more poorly implemented features.

Oblivion>Skyrim. Oblivion is still ****, but Oblivion still had a few worthwhile moments, whereas Skyrim had none. Skyrim is also the only game where I actually spent more time while the game was on doing anything that wasnt playing skyrim (because the game is an utter bore and those 5 minute peeks at SW became 2-3 hour visits of doing anything but playing Skyrim, whether it was studying, browsing forums or anything else).

Maroxad

Well concerning lvl scaling in general,i'm of the mindset that the execution of it will never be able to fully work without the sacrificing of other aspects.But who knows? maybe some developer down the road could make it work and surprise me.

I felt From Software did a good job on handling enemy encounters in both Souls games.Some lower tier monster might be easier to kill as you level ...but at the same time, can still pose a threat if you get cocky or careless.

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#234 Posted by SuperFlakeman (7411 posts) -

I really like SC II from what I have played of it elsewhere but I will wait for the version that includes all three SP campaigns.

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#235 Posted by SuperFlakeman (7411 posts) -

[QUOTE="WiiCubeM1"]

Love the Bethesda hate in this thread. Can't stop reading dumb*ss reasons to hate on Skyrim.

Maroxad

What may seem like "dumb*ss" reasons to you may be very valid reasons to others.

  • No depth (The perk system was terribly done, combat is also extremely straight forward, equipment system is as shallow as it gets)
  • No Challenge (Played on Master, didnt have any problems at all)
  • No variety (Do I even need to bring up how repetitive Skyrim's encounters, dungeons and overworld is?)
  • No interesting content (Overworld is lifeless and empty, most quests suck)
  • Terrible story
  • Horribad combat
  • Terrible dragons, that are a bore to fight and doesnt do the creature justice (seriously, making these unlimited was a downright terribe idea, what were they thinking?)
  • Bad writing
  • Weaksauce open world elements
  • Smithing/alchemy/enchanting which completely breaks the game
  • A level up system which is quite possiby the worst I have ever seen
  • Terribly done spell system
  • No spell crafting
  • Useless tacked on features that exist for their own sake (read: everything)
  • Smithing which gives you top tier items by the time level 20, killing any need to explore, who needs legendary weapons when you can craft better.
  • Level scaling
  • HP bloating which becomes downright obnoxious if you dont abuse smithing, alchemy and enchanting
  • Rock paper scissors combat, as a guy with a 2h, hope you dont fight frost enemies
  • Bugs
  • Hilariously broken and completely unrealistic perks
  • Horrible guilds
  • Terrible main quest
  • You level up too **** fast (I once got 4 levels without even moving my character)

Skyrim, simply put, is a boring, repetitive, unchallenging, broken mess. They tried to add everything, but the amateurish implementation of it all resulted in an experience that was terrible all around whose only saving grace was its scale. But even that doesnt matter because everything was so poorly done, it was all a bore. Skyrim is the worst game I played 2011.

What to use instead of level scaling? Simple, lower power gain when levelling up. Instead of becoming 2000% more powerful at level cap, just make the payer 50-100% more powerful, far more realistic too.

Holy crap lol.

I played it only briefly so I can't know this stuff but man I just don't get the appeal of Skyrim, I have no urge to go anywhere near it at any price. The marketing team did a heck of a job, its appeal went way beyond fans of the franchise & genre.

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#236 Posted by Planeforger (17227 posts) -

Bethesda couldn't develop a Pong game without adding in a hundred show-stopping bugs.

So...no, they're nowhere close to being the best developer.

-------

*edit*...actually, let's just go with Maroxad's list. It's a fair summary. I'd also like to add:

  • Hilariously broken thieving mechanics (steal people's clothes; attack a jarl and bribe the guy next to him $20 to ignore it; etc)
  • Hilariously broken AI (*arrow hits a bandit in the eye* "What was that? I'll find you!...........Oh, must have been the wind")
  • Weak roleplaying options (given the static world and meaningless choices)
  • Terrible implementation of the story and setting into the gameplay (isn't Skyrim supposed to be plagued with racism? Why doesn't that factor into anything that you do?)
  • Woeful climax
  • Stupefyingly bad UI (even for a console-focused title)
Avatar image for gamebreakerz__
#237 Posted by gamebreakerz__ (5120 posts) -

[QUOTE="gamebreakerz__"][QUOTE="WiiCubeM1"]

Love the Bethesda hate in this thread. Can't stop reading dumb*ss reasons to hate on Skyrim.

WiiCubeM1

Refute these then http://au.gamespot.com/the-elder-scrolls-v-skyrim/user-reviews/799473/platform/pc/

1. Your opinion that the storyline is bad, but you didn't give any evidence on how it "ruined the lore" of Elder Scrolls.

You can't levitate, explain that? Because it would ruin dungeon design.

2. Have you played the other Elder Scrolls games? There are no puzzles in any of the dungeons, plus they are much shorter.

I've played them all, and yes there are some puzzles, specifically levitating ones in Morrowind. However I would prefer no puzzles over crappy tedious ones.

3. It's an RPG. Level scaling is a staple of the genre, and it's WORLDS above Morrowinds and Oblivions.

The level scaling was practically non existant in Morrowind, and worse in Oblivion yes.

4. Mehrunes Razor, Mace of Molag Bal, Windshear, Blade of Woe, Savior's Hide, Nightingale Armor, Armor of the Old Gods, Linwe's Armor, Ebony Mail, Dragonbane, Keening, Valdr's Luck Dagger, Dawnbreaker, Spellbreaker, Ebony Blade, Ghostblade, Eduj, Okir, Volendrung, etc. Those are just the ones I can name off the top of my head.

I did the numbers a while ago, Morrowind has significantly more unique weapons and the point still stands they scale to the level you found them which is ridiculous.

5. An hour into Morrowind I had a Daedric Dai-katana I found in a mine. That's just me, but whatever. If you're one of those people that spams the crap out of the smithing system by making iron daggers for 10 straight hours and then complains how broken it is, then don't f*cking spend 10 straight hours smithing iron daggers to make amazing weapons and armor. It's a choice, not a necessity. I know people, most likely you, will say that's not a valid reason, but If I can avoid the temptation and not have a 100 Smithing skill until my character is at level 66, why the f*ck can't you?

I didn't do that, maybe it was before a patch or something but I got there with relative ease, especially if you just pick up all the junk in Dwemer ruins and smelt it.

6. At level 66, I'm still getting killed by Draugr Death Overlords and Ancient Dragons. Don't give me the "it's too easy" excuse. My guy in Morrowind was killing Ash Vampires and Ascended Sleepers, as well as Dremora, by the time I was at level 20, and I still enjoyed the hell out of that game.

Well your character build must be crap then because I can kill anything with absolute ease. Those enimies were weak in Morrowind

7. "Exploration", to me, involves going out into the wilderness and doing things on a whim, finding new ruins and caves to explore and pillage, not spending half an hour trying to find a single person standing around in the middle of a very small area because the compass hadn't been invented yet. It's annoying, not fun in any way. Do you know how long it took me to find the Mudcrab Merchant in Morrowind? 3 hours, and I did NOT have fun doing it.

Obviously your navigational abilities are garbage, but the worst part about Skyrim was that caves and settlements you had never found appeared on your minimap when you where within like 500 metres or something, so there was no stumbling across a secret cave or anything, you know where everything is.

8. Then don't fast travel if you don't want to. Again, it's optional, no one is forcing you to do it. I don't do it. I prefer to explore the wilds of Skyrim before. I actually like having the Fast Travel system in place because I can't tell you how many times I've gotten stuck in some glitch and fast travel saved me from having to restart to a previous save. When that happened in Morrowind, I was limited to spending hours jumping around trying to find a way out or restarting, and this was before Autosave, so I'd lose many hours of gameplay if I had to resort to that.

Use the console if you have to get out of being stuck, if you're not playing on PC then I guess there's nothing more to say. I never said I don't want fast travel, just not insta travel to anywhere from anywhere.

9. I hated the guild quests in Morrowind. Sure, they were long, but if you did certain things, you couldn't join a certain group, or you screwed over your progress in another questline, plus there really wasn't that much of an incentive to becoming the leader of anything. There was few perks, few items, just the title.

Some, in fact most of the best items in the game came from guild quests so there was an incentive. And yes of course there are consequences of your actions, the theives guild and fighters guild in Morrowind were not friends, so it makes perfect sense you cannot be the master of both at the same time.

10. Yeah, like I said above, Ancient Dragons. Even with the stormcall shout, they take a hell of a lot of abuse, and it takes a lot of patience and strategy to take them down.

Not in my experience.

11. It's an Elder Scrolls game. I've sunk over 1200 hours into Skyrim and I've done very little of what the game has to offer. I don't need expansions to have a lot of long hours of fun with Skyrim.

Not sure how you can put that much time in, the game is pretty bland.

12. You hate the fact that the Skill Tree is limited, but you praise Morrowind's guild system for being limited? The Skill Tree is meant for Customization of Characters, not to let you become a God like you could in Morrowind and Oblivion. I just beat Morrowind a few days ago. My guy was at level 80 and I killed Dagoth Ur in 5 hits, plus don't get me started on Morrowind's weapon system.

Limiting skills makes no sense, why cannot somebody train to be a master of all skills? Limiting guilds makes sense because like I said above, the theives guild and Fighters guild would never, ever let you be master of both.

I'll give you this, Morrowind was a better game content-wise, but Skyrim took everything Morrowind and Oblivion did right and polished it down, and took everything they did wrong and fixed them, or just got rid of them. Sure, there's no class system anymore, but the Skill Tree allows for more in-depth customization, allowing for tweaks to certain stats to compliment your character, plus it's the first game where being a mage isn't a chore to become, it's smooth and rewarding. Morrowind had a TERRIBLE magic and weapons system, with a large percentage of failures early on, and when they became reliable, you were a god if you played right.

I can tell you're a guy who grinds his character, and in this game, they streamlined it instead of drawing it out, like the failure system of Morrowind. All of the reasons you are using to refute Skyrim's status as an amazing game are your own personal annoyances instead of legitimate, game-breaking reasons to hate Skyrim. You linked to a review YOU made that listed why Skyrim didn't cater to YOUR play style, and worst of all, they were all small annoyances that are all either optional, non-existant, or can be fixed by NOT GRINDING FOR HOURS.

I don't grind, you're taking that entirely from the smithing comment which is untrue. If you want to know what real grinding is then play something like WOW or Runescape. Skyrim didn't cater to the playstyle of it's fans, or at least the people who had been playing since before Oblivion.

Skyrim is an amazing game. It is much better than Oblivion with it's broken level scaling, bland dungeons, and repetitive quests. It has many features that are better than Morrowind, being the streamlined leveling and fixed weapons and magic system. It may just be that I play the game differently than you, that I don't grind or try to do things as fast as possible, but every reason I've ever heard to hate on Skyrim is one of 2 things: Personal annoyances or glitches, and if you say glitches are why you hated Skyrim and loved the Morrowind and Oblivion... well, that's just pathetic.

I never once mentioned glitches.....


I'll leave this here as well:

Avatar image for Maroxad
#238 Posted by Maroxad (14388 posts) -

[QUOTE="Maroxad"]

I have to agree that Bethesda's biggest problem is their execution.

I really hope that the next TES games focuses on making **** work as opposed to adding new ****. Sadly, with all the praise they got they may have been blinded and may not realize how horribly broken their piece of crap is. And instead of fixing their long list of issues, they just break the game even more by adding more poorly implemented features.

Oblivion>Skyrim. Oblivion is still ****, but Oblivion still had a few worthwhile moments, whereas Skyrim had none. Skyrim is also the only game where I actually spent more time while the game was on doing anything that wasnt playing skyrim (because the game is an utter bore and those 5 minute peeks at SW became 2-3 hour visits of doing anything but playing Skyrim, whether it was studying, browsing forums or anything else).

Kandlegoat

Well concerning lvl scaling in general,i'm of the mindset that the execution of it will never be able to fully work without the sacrificing of other aspects.But who knows? maybe some developer down the road could make it work and surprise me.

I felt From Software did a good job on handling enemy encounters in both Souls games.Some lower tier monster might be easier to kill as you level ...but at the same time, can still pose a threat if you get cocky or careless.

And in the case of the souls games. You did gain power, but the powergain was hardly redicilous. You didnt go from 100 HP to 9999 or anything redicilous like that. A character with 99 vitality would have slightly less than 3 times the HP of a character with 8 vitality, which works, considering the NG+ nature and the lore of the games (Demon's Souls lore anyway).

Mount and Blade was kinda similar really. You did gain quite a bit more powerful as the game progressed, but with the exceptions of non-bow using bandits. Stuff could still easily kill you even if you are fully armed and dangerous. My characters usually begin with 40 HP or so, by the time they conquer Caldaria, they have 60 HP. Thier biggest improvement is their Armor, Speed and Damage. Now, Mount&Blade did use some level scaling, but this was done with numbers, not enemy power. High level characters would fight bigger parties/armies, not stronger soldiers. I didnt like it, but still, it shows power gain done right.

That is how I want levelling andd power gain systems to work really, they should make you more powerful, but ideally, they should NEVER trivialize content.

Avatar image for dracolich55
#239 Posted by dracolich55 (2343 posts) -
I think Bioshock Infinite is from 2K and Irrational, not Bioware.....
Avatar image for Ravenshout
#240 Posted by Ravenshout (1265 posts) -

I think Bioshock Infinite is from 2K and Irrational, not Bioware.....dracolich55
I understand that Diablo 3 nullified, if not a bit almost completely, your trust in Blizzard. Yet to hate Blizzard and proclaim their death as TC did is silly if not absurdly moronic. As for Bioware, they are not immune to criticism, but to hate them based on few things you disagree with them is unfair.

Blizzard have Titan and they have vowed few times that it will be revolutionary, something not only rarely seen if not never seen in the MMO genre, but in the industry at large.

Bioware have Dragon Age 3 and the next Mass Effect game to eradicate the stains from the whole Dragon Age 2 and Mass Effect 3 ending debacle.

Bethesda will keep on making what they have been doing and will still release buggy, shallow products. Trust me.

Avatar image for WiiCubeM1
#241 Posted by WiiCubeM1 (4735 posts) -

[QUOTE="WiiCubeM1"]

5. An hour into Morrowind I had a Daedric Dai-katana I found in a mine. That's just me, but whatever. If you're one of those people that spams the crap out of the smithing system by making iron daggers for 10 straight hours and then complains how broken it is, then don't f*cking spend 10 straight hours smithing iron daggers to make amazing weapons and armor. It's a choice, not a necessity. I know people, most likely you, will say that's not a valid reason, but If I can avoid the temptation and not have a 100 Smithing skill until my character is at level 66, why the f*ck can't you?

6. At level 66, I'm still getting killed by Draugr Death Overlords and Ancient Dragons. Don't give me the "it's too easy" excuse. My guy in Morrowind was killing Ash Vampires and Ascended Sleepers, as well as Dremora, by the time I was at level 20, and I still enjoyed the hell out of that game.

7. "Exploration", to me, involves going out into the wilderness and doing things on a whim, finding new ruins and caves to explore and pillage, not spending half an hour trying to find a single person standing around in the middle of a very small area because the compass hadn't been invented yet. It's annoying, not fun in any way. Do you know how long it took me to find the Mudcrab Merchant in Morrowind? 3 hours, and I did NOT have fun doing it.

9. I hated the guild quests in Morrowind. Sure, they were long, but if you did certain things, you couldn't join a certain group, or you screwed over your progress in another questline, plus there really wasn't that much of an incentive to becoming the leader of anything. There was few perks, few items, just the title.

10. Yeah, like I said above, Ancient Dragons. Even with the stormcall shout, they take a hell of a lot of abuse, and it takes a lot of patience and strategy to take them down.

11. It's an Elder Scrolls game. I've sunk over 1200 hours into Skyrim and I've done very little of what the game has to offer. I don't need expansions to have a lot of long hours of fun with Skyrim.

12. You hate the fact that the Skill Tree is limited, but you praise Morrowind's guild system for being limited? The Skill Tree is meant for Customization of Characters, not to let you become a God like you could in Morrowind and Oblivion. I just beat Morrowind a few days ago. My guy was at level 80 and I killed Dagoth Ur in 5 hits, plus don't get me started on Morrowind's weapon system.

I'll give you this, Morrowind was a better game content-wise, but Skyrim took everything Morrowind and Oblivion did right and polished it down, and took everything they did wrong and fixed them, or just got rid of them. Sure, there's no class system anymore, but the Skill Tree allows for more in-depth customization, allowing for tweaks to certain stats to compliment your character, plus it's the first game where being a mage isn't a chore to become, it's smooth and rewarding. Morrowind had a TERRIBLE magic and weapons system, with a large percentage of failures early on, and when they became reliable, you were a god if you played right.

I can tell you're a guy who grinds his character, and in this game, they streamlined it instead of drawing it out, like the failure system of Morrowind. All of the reasons you are using to refute Skyrim's status as an amazing game are your own personal annoyances instead of legitimate, game-breaking reasons to hate Skyrim. You linked to a review YOU made that listed why Skyrim didn't cater to YOUR play style, and worst of all, they were all small annoyances that are all either optional, non-existant, or can be fixed by NOT GRINDING FOR HOURS.

Skyrim is an amazing game. It is much better than Oblivion with it's broken level scaling, bland dungeons, and repetitive quests. It has many features that are better than Morrowind, being the streamlined leveling and fixed weapons and magic system. It may just be that I play the game differently than you, that I don't grind or try to do things as fast as possible, but every reason I've ever heard to hate on Skyrim is one of 2 things: Personal annoyances or glitches, and if you say glitches are why you hated Skyrim and loved the Morrowind and Oblivion... well, that's just pathetic.

ChubbyGuy40

The amount of hours is irrelevant. The entire system is broken in the first place. You should never be allowed to create the high-tier armor because you crafted a bunch of iron daggers. Smithing is pointless and you can find all the armor in the world. Thanks to Bethesda's absolutely horrid scaling, upgrading anything serves no purpose because everything else scales with you. Don't have the materials yet? Simply fast travel city to city or reload the save and the vendor will have them. Also must point out that gold also serves no purpose because there's nothing for you to do with it.

I'm allowed to craft potions that grant like 97% resistance and pause at any time to heal, eat, and use potions. Difficulty doesn't exist in Skyrim. Turning it up to Master does nothing other than make NPCs hit for insane amounts. Not to mention random spikes in damage at any difficulty, where a bandit will take maybe 10 hits to take you down and the Bandit Lord/Wizard/ect will spike you dead in 2 hits. It's factually bad design.

I see you failed to mention that exploring offers no rewards or benefits 95% of the time. There's no incentive to explore before a quest tells you to go there. Not to mention how god-awful and boring Dwemer and Nord dungeons/caves are.

That's the entire point. You should never be allowed to have the abilities of every damn class. If you pick to be a warrior, you aren't going to know jacksh*t about the ways of the arcane. You will be one of the most unqualified people to lead a damn magic school. Depending on context/progression story wise, breaking the ability to complete or obtain certain quests makes absolute sense.

And what's so different from them besides an increased health pool and maybe more damage? Nothing. Absolutely lazy design that only Bethesda can get away with.

That's a lie. There's not that much to do in Skyrim. You cannot have played that long and not beaten the game at least 10 times.

But that's exactly what the system encourages. It's blatantly present in every Bethesda game, because they don't know how to design any decent gameplay. Skyrim's skill/perk system is sh*t anyway. There's no reason why unlocking new patterns and abilities with crafting should have anything at all to do with leveling up your character.

But that's implying Oblivion did anything right at all. No sh*t that's what a skill tree does, but classes were removed. This doesn't allow for anything to have depth. It only allows you to establish the base concept of your character and then it stops there.

This is just pathetic. Leveling scaling is never beneficial in Skyrim. All it allows them to do is completely skip balancing when designing the game. Put a base value on all items and scale them by X according to level. No need for balancing at all!

Far from it. If it wasn't made by Bethesda and have Elder Scrolls in the title, it would've been universally and justly hated on. Those faults of Oblivion are still just as much present in Skyrim. Only thing it did better than Morrowind was more responsive combat. No excuse why you should miss when your weapon clearly hit the guy. No point in arguing about glitches or bugs. That's to be expected (and completely overlooked in reviews) when it comes to Bethesda games. The only thing Skyrim does well is the music. Everything else is trash.

I'll put it simply. I don't pick apart games to say whether or not they are bad, I look at the overall experience. TO call Skyrim bad would be to call FFVII, Ocarina, or Super Mario 64 bad. You can pick apart certain elements in the games that are either broken (like Nayru's Love) or annoying, but to call a game bad because a few things annoyed you (and like I said above, in Skyrim's case, COMPLETELY OPTIONAL), is either crazy or stupid.

Skyrim is not a bad game. Is it the best Elder Scrolls? Hell no, that honor goes to Morrowind, but there were many exploitable glitches and perks in that game as well.

Enemies didn't scale, so you could be picking apart most things by level 20 if you focused on the right attributes.

You could create spells to permanently raise your stats to levels much higher than 100.

The magic system was a pain in the *ss to use. I only used lockpicking and levitation spells.

I could permanently summon Golden Saints, kill them, then steal their stuff and use or sell it to the Mudcrab Merchant.

There was just as much incentive to explore as the other games. Few unique weapons and armor you could just find, most dungeons had nothing in them, and there was no puzzle element. Skyrim's may be easy as hell, but it's more than we got in Morrowind.

Did you know that there were cheat codes in Morrowind that gave you extremely fast regenerating health, magicka, and stamina? At lower levels, you could take on Dremora and Umbra and win fairly easily.

What do you mean by "balancing"? Let you become a god while no enemies or equipment level with you? Morrowind wasn't exactly a very balanced game.

The reason I have 1200 hours in Skyrim is because I've taken the time to just run around the world and do quests as they appear. I've beaten the game once, then I began to do quests for guilds I overlooked, and do side missions I didn't know existed. It's possible if you play without fast travel.

It's like I said. I don't abuse in-game features. If they annoyed me as much as they do you people, why the hell would I? So I can complain how broken the system is and overlook how broken the other games are? The magic system in Morrowind is BROKEN beyond belief. You can use glitches and certain aspects about the creation system to max out every attribute and make spells permanent. You can use cheats to regenerate health and magicka. You can summon high-level summons to do your work for you because there is no summon limit. Does that stop me from saying Morrowind is one of the best game I've ever played? Of course not, because I can look past the flaws I don't have to exploit and enjoy the game as a whole.

Avatar image for Truth_Hurts_U
#242 Posted by Truth_Hurts_U (9703 posts) -

I can't wait for blizzard to die... That means wow and diablo 3 would go with it... Then all the yahoo and hot mail Chinese spam will go away.

If I knew how to block all yahoo and hotmail then I would be ok with blizzard staying alive making crap games.

Avatar image for WiiCubeM1
#243 Posted by WiiCubeM1 (4735 posts) -

[QUOTE="WiiCubeM1"]

[QUOTE="gamebreakerz__"] Refute these then http://au.gamespot.com/the-elder-scrolls-v-skyrim/user-reviews/799473/platform/pc/gamebreakerz__

1. Your opinion that the storyline is bad, but you didn't give any evidence on how it "ruined the lore" of Elder Scrolls.

You can't levitate, explain that? Because it would ruin dungeon design.

2. Have you played the other Elder Scrolls games? There are no puzzles in any of the dungeons, plus they are much shorter.

I've played them all, and yes there are some puzzles, specifically levitating ones in Morrowind. However I would prefer no puzzles over crappy tedious ones.

Those weren't puzzles, just levitate to the next part of the dungeon. You know the only reason they added levitation originally was because people would get stuck all the time? The only major puzzle I can think of was Puzzle Canal.

3. It's an RPG. Level scaling is a staple of the genre, and it's WORLDS above Morrowinds and Oblivions.

The level scaling was practically non existant in Morrowind, and worse in Oblivion yes.

I did f*ck up here. I was thinking about leveling in general, not enemy and eqipment leveling. Still, I welcome the addition so I don't kill everything after 4 hours of play

4. Mehrunes Razor, Mace of Molag Bal, Windshear, Blade of Woe, Savior's Hide, Nightingale Armor, Armor of the Old Gods, Linwe's Armor, Ebony Mail, Dragonbane, Keening, Valdr's Luck Dagger, Dawnbreaker, Spellbreaker, Ebony Blade, Ghostblade, Eduj, Okir, Volendrung, etc. Those are just the ones I can name off the top of my head.

I did the numbers a while ago, Morrowind has significantly more unique weapons and the point still stands they scale to the level you found them which is ridiculous.

Fewer doesn't mean Few in general. There are still many, many unique items.

5. An hour into Morrowind I had a Daedric Dai-katana I found in a mine. That's just me, but whatever. If you're one of those people that spams the crap out of the smithing system by making iron daggers for 10 straight hours and then complains how broken it is, then don't f*cking spend 10 straight hours smithing iron daggers to make amazing weapons and armor. It's a choice, not a necessity. I know people, most likely you, will say that's not a valid reason, but If I can avoid the temptation and not have a 100 Smithing skill until my character is at level 66, why the f*ck can't you?

I didn't do that, maybe it was before a patch or something but I got there with relative ease, especially if you just pick up all the junk in Dwemer ruins and smelt it.

I rarely used the smith. I would craft a new piece of armor if I needed it, or would temper my armor when I could, but I didn't make weapons and armor to level up. That's grinding, and that ruins the experience for me.

6. At level 66, I'm still getting killed by Draugr Death Overlords and Ancient Dragons. Don't give me the "it's too easy" excuse. My guy in Morrowind was killing Ash Vampires and Ascended Sleepers, as well as Dremora, by the time I was at level 20, and I still enjoyed the hell out of that game.

Well your character build must be crap then because I can kill anything with absolute ease. Those enimies were weak in Morrowind

My One-Handed, Light Armor, Destruction Magic, Restoration, and Smith are all at 100. A good shot from an Ebony Bow does more damage tha you'd think.

7. "Exploration", to me, involves going out into the wilderness and doing things on a whim, finding new ruins and caves to explore and pillage, not spending half an hour trying to find a single person standing around in the middle of a very small area because the compass hadn't been invented yet. It's annoying, not fun in any way. Do you know how long it took me to find the Mudcrab Merchant in Morrowind? 3 hours, and I did NOT have fun doing it.

Obviously your navigational abilities are garbage, but the worst part about Skyrim was that caves and settlements you had never found appeared on your minimap when you where within like 500 metres or something, so there was no stumbling across a secret cave or anything, you know where everything is.

I don't like being in an area and not being able to find something. Yes, finding a random crypt or cave in Morrowind was one of the best things about the game, but being sent to find someone standing in the middle of the damn Ashlands was one of the worst things about that game. It's not that I have bad navigational skills, it's that the world looks the same.

8. Then don't fast travel if you don't want to. Again, it's optional, no one is forcing you to do it. I don't do it. I prefer to explore the wilds of Skyrim before. I actually like having the Fast Travel system in place because I can't tell you how many times I've gotten stuck in some glitch and fast travel saved me from having to restart to a previous save. When that happened in Morrowind, I was limited to spending hours jumping around trying to find a way out or restarting, and this was before Autosave, so I'd lose many hours of gameplay if I had to resort to that.

Use the console if you have to get out of being stuck, if you're not playing on PC then I guess there's nothing more to say. I never said I don't want fast travel, just not insta travel to anywhere from anywhere.

Xbox. And like I said, it's optional.

9. I hated the guild quests in Morrowind. Sure, they were long, but if you did certain things, you couldn't join a certain group, or you screwed over your progress in another questline, plus there really wasn't that much of an incentive to becoming the leader of anything. There was few perks, few items, just the title.

Some, in fact most of the best items in the game came from guild quests so there was an incentive. And yes of course there are consequences of your actions, the theives guild and fighters guild in Morrowind were not friends, so it makes perfect sense you cannot be the master of both at the same time.

I still stand on my remarks.

10. Yeah, like I said above, Ancient Dragons. Even with the stormcall shout, they take a hell of a lot of abuse, and it takes a lot of patience and strategy to take them down.

Not in my experience.

Well, they do in mine.

11. It's an Elder Scrolls game. I've sunk over 1200 hours into Skyrim and I've done very little of what the game has to offer. I don't need expansions to have a lot of long hours of fun with Skyrim.

Not sure how you can put that much time in, the game is pretty bland.

Not fast traveling. Ever.

12. You hate the fact that the Skill Tree is limited, but you praise Morrowind's guild system for being limited? The Skill Tree is meant for Customization of Characters, not to let you become a God like you could in Morrowind and Oblivion. I just beat Morrowind a few days ago. My guy was at level 80 and I killed Dagoth Ur in 5 hits, plus don't get me started on Morrowind's weapon system.

Limiting skills makes no sense, why cannot somebody train to be a master of all skills? Limiting guilds makes sense because like I said above, the theives guild and Fighters guild would never, ever let you be master of both.

I've had arguments with people who think Skyrim's skills system is too broad, that a warrior should not be good with magic, and vice versa. I guess this one will be in the air for a while because everyone hates it for different reasons.

I'll give you this, Morrowind was a better game content-wise, but Skyrim took everything Morrowind and Oblivion did right and polished it down, and took everything they did wrong and fixed them, or just got rid of them. Sure, there's no class system anymore, but the Skill Tree allows for more in-depth customization, allowing for tweaks to certain stats to compliment your character, plus it's the first game where being a mage isn't a chore to become, it's smooth and rewarding. Morrowind had a TERRIBLE magic and weapons system, with a large percentage of failures early on, and when they became reliable, you were a god if you played right.

I can tell you're a guy who grinds his character, and in this game, they streamlined it instead of drawing it out, like the failure system of Morrowind. All of the reasons you are using to refute Skyrim's status as an amazing game are your own personal annoyances instead of legitimate, game-breaking reasons to hate Skyrim. You linked to a review YOU made that listed why Skyrim didn't cater to YOUR play style, and worst of all, they were all small annoyances that are all either optional, non-existant, or can be fixed by NOT GRINDING FOR HOURS.

I don't grind, you're taking that entirely from the smithing comment which is untrue. If you want to know what real grinding is then play something like WOW or Runescape. Skyrim didn't cater to the playstyle of it's fans, or at least the people who had been playing since before Oblivion.

It catered to mine, even more so than Morrowind did. I've been with the series since Daggerfall, and can still say Skyrim was one of the better games in the series.

Skyrim is an amazing game. It is much better than Oblivion with it's broken level scaling, bland dungeons, and repetitive quests. It has many features that are better than Morrowind, being the streamlined leveling and fixed weapons and magic system. It may just be that I play the game differently than you, that I don't grind or try to do things as fast as possible, but every reason I've ever heard to hate on Skyrim is one of 2 things: Personal annoyances or glitches, and if you say glitches are why you hated Skyrim and loved the Morrowind and Oblivion... well, that's just pathetic.

I never once mentioned glitches.....

I know, this particular part wasn't aimed at you, just other people who read this and use glitches as a reason to hate Skyrim.


I'll leave this here as well:

Avatar image for RoccoHout
#244 Posted by RoccoHout (1075 posts) -

Blizzard is very overrated these days, their latest good game was Wrath of the Lich King. Cataclysm and MoP are dissapointing, altrough MoP somewhat less. SC2 = SC1 with prettier graphics. Diablo 3 has been a massive dissapointment that does not even deserve 2/3 of their sales. It would be nice to see them dying, but sadly it won't for a while. They got plenty of following cultists/sheep

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#245 Posted by ShadowMoses900 (17081 posts) -

I wasn't aware any of them were in turmoil.

Avatar image for princeofshapeir
#246 Posted by princeofshapeir (16567 posts) -

Blizzard is very overrated these days, their latest good game was Wrath of the Lich King. Cataclysm and MoP are dissapointing, altrough MoP somewhat less. SC2 = SC1 with prettier graphics. Diablo 3 has been a massive dissapointment that does not even deserve 2/3 of their sales. It would be nice to see them dying, but sadly it won't for a while. They got plenty of following cultists/sheep

RoccoHout
MoP is the best expansion since Burning Crusade (WOTLK and Cata were both garbage), Starcraft 2 is great, Diablo 3 was a letdown at launch but has only improved since its release.
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#247 Posted by princeofshapeir (16567 posts) -
WoW...well.. let's just say fans want Warcraft IV. nitekids2004
What fans? There are 10 million subscribers who love WoW as it is and think Blizzard made a step in the right direction with MoP. There is a very tiny, albeit very vocal minority who actually hate WoW and want Blizzard to release Warcraft IV.
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#248 Posted by Maroxad (14388 posts) -

I'll put it simply. I don't pick apart games to say whether or not they are bad, I look at the overall experience. TO call Skyrim bad would be to call FFVII, Ocarina, or Super Mario 64 bad. You can pick apart certain elements in the games that are either broken (like Nayru's Love) or annoying, but to call a game bad because a few things annoyed you (and like I said above, in Skyrim's case, COMPLETELY OPTIONAL), is either crazy or stupid.

WiiCubeM1

Yes, it is the overall experience in the end that counts. And more or less any game has flaws.

Thing is, Skyrims issues are abundant and do drag down the quality of the game quite a bit. I couldnt find a single thing to like about Skyrim. Other than laughing at how badly designed the game was. What does Skyrim do well?

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#249 Posted by Heil68 (57461 posts) -
Blizzard isn't dead and lol @ Bethesada being #1.
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#250 Posted by lordreaven (7239 posts) -

think Paradox is the best right now, sure some of their published stuff is meh, but their in-house dev team makes my favourite games. EU IV will kick ass.