windows mixed reality is just around the corner

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#1 Edited by commander (15378 posts) -

Multiple windows mixed reality headsets have been announced and also presented at IFA. headsets from acer, dell, lenovo, asus, and hp.

Lenovo and dell are selling their headsets for $349, while Asus is significantly more expensive at around 449 euros, allthough the dollar price might be similar, since the dell visor sells at 345 euros. hp's headset comes at 450 which is bundled with two controllers, allthough that's similar to the dell bundle of 449$ which also comes with two controllers.

Several sources say that the tracking is on par with (or at least comes very close) to the tracking of oculus and rift, without the need of external sensors (tracking is done by camera's on the headset)

Every headset has similar controllers but word is they are not that ergonomic like let's say the oculus touch

https://www.theverge.com/2017/9/1/16232704/microsoft-windows-mixed-reality-headsets-controllers

Not everyone agrees about the tracking though, some sources report tracking to be as good as psvr, which is a signifcant differrence compared to oculus and the vive.

https://techcrunch.com/2017/08/28/microsofts-mixed-reality-headsets-are-a-bit-of-a-mixed-bag/

Either way these mixed reality headsets will raise the competition, especially since microsoft partenered with steamvr for the windows mixed reality platform. It won't be at launch though, which is at 17 october (and then most mixed reality headsets will be available as well). But the windows store should have vr games available, some games that are also known on other vr platforms, like arizona sunshne.

https://www.vrfocus.com/2017/09/steamvr-support-wont-be-available-for-the-windows-mixed-reality-headset-launch/

One thing is for sure, microsoft means business and the pricing of mixed reality headsets is quite similar to oculus and sony. Each platform seems to have its advantages and disadvantages though. The first link even mentions that the windows mixed reality headsets are not as immersive as the other platforms, and if tracking will be really on par with oculus or even the vive, that remains to be seen.

What do you think about this new 'mixed reality' platform? which, in case you haven't noticed, is just virtual reality with another tracking method.

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#2 Posted by EndofAugust (812 posts) -

Now things are really going to start getting interesting.

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#3 Edited by QuadKnight (12916 posts) -

I'm glad MS is finally starting to take this shit seriously.

It remains to be seen how this delivers on the gaming side of things but I'm pleased. More options are always nice and if these end up with compelling software I may just buy one for my PC.

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#4 Posted by getyeryayasout (12505 posts) -

While I appreciate the tech these VR and AR (is mixed reality different than AR?) headsets bring to the table, until they can reduce the size and make them so they aren't bulky, sweaty, scuba masks, I'm just not interested. The idea of wearing these things for more than a few minutes is really off putting to me. I can wait.

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#5 Posted by SolidSnake35 (58923 posts) -

And here I am wondering why the Windows 10 live wallpapers fetched from Bing doesn't work. But you go for it, Microsoft. I believe in you.

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#6 Edited by QuadKnight (12916 posts) -

@getyeryayasout: Mixed reality is just VR. MS is just calling it MR to try and create a new marketing buzzword like they did with "True 4K".

AR is hololens and that won't be available for a long time to consumers.

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#7 Posted by appariti0n (2806 posts) -

Bah, I hate VR and hope it dies a quick death.

*runs off to yell at kids for playing on his lawn*

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#8 Posted by getyeryayasout (12505 posts) -

@appariti0n said:

Bah, I hate VR and hope it dies a quick death.

*runs off to yell at kids for playing on his lawn*

Whack 'em with your cane a few times. That'll learn 'em!

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#9 Edited by EndofAugust (812 posts) -

@quadknight said:

@getyeryayasout: Mixed reality is just VR. MS is just calling it MR to try and create a new marketing buzzword like they did with "True 4K".

AR is hololens and that won't be available for a long time to consumers.

Actually it's not, it's a mix of augmented reality and virtual reality. Hololens is an independent functioning device, that is the difference with it.

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#10 Edited by Daniel_Su123 (1084 posts) -

I said this many times. Microsoft will have the best chance to standardise VR. The problem with current VR is that it's fragmented, we have Console VR with its own thing, PC VR with theirs and Mobile/portable VR with their own.

Since Microsoft owns a PC platform and Console platform, and also has a standalone device, the only place that MS doesn't have cornered true Gear VR -like Mobile VR.

So APIs. Like UWP, DX12 and the Windows Store will be standard. OpenXR with other companies don't have that luxury of a true scalable platform running on these forms factors.

So in terms of distribution, MS will likely become the biggest PC VR platform overall.

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#11 Edited by QuadKnight (12916 posts) -

@daniel_su123 said:

I said this many times. Microsoft will have the best chance to standardise VR. The problem with current VR is that it's fragmented, we have Console VR with its own thing, PC VR with theirs and Mobile/portable VR with their own.

Since Microsoft owns the PC platform and Console platform...

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#12 Edited by Daniel_Su123 (1084 posts) -

@quadknight said:
@daniel_su123 said:

I said this many times. Microsoft will have the best chance to standardise VR. The problem with current VR is that it's fragmented, we have Console VR with its own thing, PC VR with theirs and Mobile/portable VR with their own.

Since Microsoft owns the PC platform and Console platform...

I think you got the wrong idea. What I mean is that, they have a Console and PC and a standalone/mobile platform to expand their VR platform on since they have OS level access. Sony, Valve, Oculus and Google can do workarounds this. Oculus for example can use Android APIs and use Win32 APIs (Consoles is out) but it's a burden to developers, Oculus will need to get rid of Rift ecosystem, they could in theory since Portable VR is the future and not PC VR regardless if it's tethered or wireless tethered to a PC.

It's clear that Standalone and Mobile VR is the future of overall VR and Valve has no relevance in this space, it's even more concerning that Microsoft is invading their dominance in the PC VR space and they control the OS of Windows.

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#13 Edited by commander (15378 posts) -

@getyeryayasout said:

While I appreciate the tech these VR and AR (is mixed reality different than AR?) headsets bring to the table, until they can reduce the size and make them so they aren't bulky, sweaty, scuba masks, I'm just not interested. The idea of wearing these things for more than a few minutes is really off putting to me. I can wait.

The asus headset is lighter than current headsets

https://www.theverge.com/2017/8/30/16224842/asus-windows-mixed-reality-headset-virtual-reality

It also sports 3k

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#14 Posted by commander (15378 posts) -

@daniel_su123 said:
@quadknight said:
@daniel_su123 said:

I said this many times. Microsoft will have the best chance to standardise VR. The problem with current VR is that it's fragmented, we have Console VR with its own thing, PC VR with theirs and Mobile/portable VR with their own.

Since Microsoft owns the PC platform and Console platform...

I think you got the wrong idea. What I mean is that, they have a Console and PC and a standalone/mobile platform to expand their VR platform on since they have OS level access. Sony, Valve, Oculus and Google can do workarounds this. Oculus for example can use Android APIs and use Win32 APIs (Consoles is out) but it's a burden to developers, Oculus will need to get rid of Rift ecosystem, they could in theory since Portable VR is the future and not PC VR regardless if it's tethered or wireless tethered to a PC.

It's clear that Standalone and Mobile VR is the future of overall VR and Valve has no relevance in this space, it's even more concerning that Microsoft is invading their dominance in the PC VR space and they control the OS of Windows.

I think the way it does tracking will be a problem for microsoft vr platform. Setting up sensors isn't really a big of deal with oculus and the touch controllers seem to be way better as well.

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#15 Posted by Daniel_Su123 (1084 posts) -

@commander said:
@daniel_su123 said:
@quadknight said:
@daniel_su123 said:

I said this many times. Microsoft will have the best chance to standardise VR. The problem with current VR is that it's fragmented, we have Console VR with its own thing, PC VR with theirs and Mobile/portable VR with their own.

Since Microsoft owns the PC platform and Console platform...

I think you got the wrong idea. What I mean is that, they have a Console and PC and a standalone/mobile platform to expand their VR platform on since they have OS level access. Sony, Valve, Oculus and Google can do workarounds this. Oculus for example can use Android APIs and use Win32 APIs (Consoles is out) but it's a burden to developers, Oculus will need to get rid of Rift ecosystem, they could in theory since Portable VR is the future and not PC VR regardless if it's tethered or wireless tethered to a PC.

It's clear that Standalone and Mobile VR is the future of overall VR and Valve has no relevance in this space, it's even more concerning that Microsoft is invading their dominance in the PC VR space and they control the OS of Windows.

I think the way it does tracking will be a problem for microsoft vr platform. Setting up sensors isn't really a big of deal with oculus and the touch controllers seem to be way better as well.

I don't think you understood what I said.

Avatar image for commander
#16 Edited by commander (15378 posts) -

@daniel_su123 said:
@commander said:
@daniel_su123 said:

I think you got the wrong idea. What I mean is that, they have a Console and PC and a standalone/mobile platform to expand their VR platform on since they have OS level access. Sony, Valve, Oculus and Google can do workarounds this. Oculus for example can use Android APIs and use Win32 APIs (Consoles is out) but it's a burden to developers, Oculus will need to get rid of Rift ecosystem, they could in theory since Portable VR is the future and not PC VR regardless if it's tethered or wireless tethered to a PC.

It's clear that Standalone and Mobile VR is the future of overall VR and Valve has no relevance in this space, it's even more concerning that Microsoft is invading their dominance in the PC VR space and they control the OS of Windows.

I think the way it does tracking will be a problem for microsoft vr platform. Setting up sensors isn't really a big of deal with oculus and the touch controllers seem to be way better as well.

I don't think you understood what I said.

I understood exactly what you said, but the advantages you're talking about will not make the tracking on par with the other headsets.

Everyone that has done vr knows the importance of tracking.

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#17 Edited by Daniel_Su123 (1084 posts) -

@commander said:
@daniel_su123 said:
@commander said:
@daniel_su123 said:

I think you got the wrong idea. What I mean is that, they have a Console and PC and a standalone/mobile platform to expand their VR platform on since they have OS level access. Sony, Valve, Oculus and Google can do workarounds this. Oculus for example can use Android APIs and use Win32 APIs (Consoles is out) but it's a burden to developers, Oculus will need to get rid of Rift ecosystem, they could in theory since Portable VR is the future and not PC VR regardless if it's tethered or wireless tethered to a PC.

It's clear that Standalone and Mobile VR is the future of overall VR and Valve has no relevance in this space, it's even more concerning that Microsoft is invading their dominance in the PC VR space and they control the OS of Windows.

I think the way it does tracking will be a problem for microsoft vr platform. Setting up sensors isn't really a big of deal with oculus and the touch controllers seem to be way better as well.

I don't think you understood what I said.

I understood exactly what you said, but the advantages you're talking about will not make the tracking on par with the other headsets.

Everyone that has done vr knows the importance of tracking.

I still don't think you understood what I said about standardisation, but I'll answer you're comment...

The reality is that average consumer DON'T want external sensors, it's limiting and you're stuck in one room and one house. It's nice for a developer going to a developer event, to bring a MS VR headset and controllers and a gaming laptop and that's it. The advantage of these Microsoft headsets, is inside out tracking, while there are compromises, it seems that the pros of inside out tracking outweigh the cons.

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#18 Posted by QuadKnight (12916 posts) -

@commander said:
@daniel_su123 said:
@commander said:
@daniel_su123 said:

I think you got the wrong idea. What I mean is that, they have a Console and PC and a standalone/mobile platform to expand their VR platform on since they have OS level access. Sony, Valve, Oculus and Google can do workarounds this. Oculus for example can use Android APIs and use Win32 APIs (Consoles is out) but it's a burden to developers, Oculus will need to get rid of Rift ecosystem, they could in theory since Portable VR is the future and not PC VR regardless if it's tethered or wireless tethered to a PC.

It's clear that Standalone and Mobile VR is the future of overall VR and Valve has no relevance in this space, it's even more concerning that Microsoft is invading their dominance in the PC VR space and they control the OS of Windows.

I think the way it does tracking will be a problem for microsoft vr platform. Setting up sensors isn't really a big of deal with oculus and the touch controllers seem to be way better as well.

I don't think you understood what I said.

I understood exactly what you said, but the advantages you're talking about will not make the tracking on par with the other headsets.

Everyone that has done vr knows the importance of tracking.

Indeed.

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#19 Posted by kuu2 (11164 posts) -

NO, NO, NO, NO.....................

We have come so far in multiplayer environments so why are we going back to singular experience in home gaming?

Bring back couch coop that my whole family can enjoy.

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#20 Posted by wolverine4262 (20832 posts) -

Already got my oculus. Gf is playing right now and we love it. The tech is solid and price on point.

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#21 Posted by wolverine4262 (20832 posts) -

@kuu2: echo arena and star trek bridge crew can be incredibly social.

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#22 Edited by commander (15378 posts) -

@daniel_su123 said:
@commander said:
@daniel_su123 said:

I don't think you understood what I said.

I understood exactly what you said, but the advantages you're talking about will not make the tracking on par with the other headsets.

Everyone that has done vr knows the importance of tracking.

I still don't think you understood what I said about standardisation, but I'll answer you're comment...

The reality is that average consumer DON'T want external sensors, it's limiting and you're stuck in one room and one house. It's nice for a developer going to a developer event, to bring a MS VR headset and controllers and a gaming laptop and that's it. The advantage of these Microsoft headsets, is inside out tracking, while there are compromises, it seems that the pros of inside out tracking outweigh the cons.

Setting up sensors is really not a big of deal with the oculus and it's not like I'm going to switch rooms for vr. If I want to do seated vr I just need one sensor as well. So I can just bring it back from let's say my vr room to my living room. I could also just buy an extra sensor.

That it is a plus for a developper event isn't much of a plus for a consumer. Yeah sure it's easier to move your vr set around but I don't think portability is what people are looking for when buying a vr headset.

Impeccable tracking is way more important, not to mention the quality of controllers, not only have the touch controllers way more functionalities with gestures like pointing, grabbing and making a fist, the touch controllers are also very sturdy, people online call them indestructable while the mixed reality controllers are called flimsy. The touch seems to be more ergonomic as well.

These are things that people will find important, not standardization, it doesn't buy anything for the consumer. In the end this isn't any different than the stores oculus and steam have. It's just another vr store with another vr propertairy device, that different devices are made by third party doesn't change much, in the end these are all very similar devices, since they use the same tracking method and the same controller.

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#23 Posted by kuu2 (11164 posts) -

@wolverine4262 said:

@kuu2: echo arena and star trek bridge crew can be incredibly social.

Not in my home it can't. I have 6 people and we are not going to buy that many headsets. Watching people wear goggles while playing VR is about as dumb as it gets. Plus the population that gets sick from this type of experience. All the money being pumped into this tech for mass consumer use is a waste.

Like all fads this will go out with a fast wimper like it came in with a fast bang.

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#24 Edited by wolverine4262 (20832 posts) -

@kuu2: goddamn you are cynical. BTW they also make local mp games where one person uses the vr and others controllers and a TV but clearly you're far too gone to hear reason.

You know any vr game you play will be displayed on whatever TV you have hooked up to your PC. It doesn't have to be solitary.

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#25 Edited by QuadKnight (12916 posts) -

@kuu2 said:

NO, NO, NO, NO.....................

We have come so far in multiplayer environments so why are we going back to singular experience in home gaming?

Bring back couch coop that my whole family can enjoy.

You sound like a cranky old man. VR is the future, get used to it, it's not going anywhere.

Funny thing is there are already social couch co-op VR games like this...

Loading Video...

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#26 Edited by commander (15378 posts) -

@kuu2 said:
@wolverine4262 said:

@kuu2: echo arena and star trek bridge crew can be incredibly social.

Not in my home it can't. I have 6 people and we are not going to buy that many headsets. Watching people wear goggles while playing VR is about as dumb as it gets. Plus the population that gets sick from this type of experience. All the money being pumped into this tech for mass consumer use is a waste.

Like all fads this will go out with a fast wimper like it came in with a fast bang.

I don't see this as much of an argument, your situation is not the same as everyone else's, nor your taste or your financial situation.

If you think this is a fad, you haven't been paying much attention.

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#27 Posted by VFighter (5241 posts) -

@quadknight: LOL, VR is the future. Oh god how did you type that with a straight face? It's already dead and never really had any shot at becoming mainstream. Maybe in another 10-20 years it will come back and try again.

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#28 Edited by QuadKnight (12916 posts) -

@vfighter said:

@quadknight: LOL, VR is the future. Oh god how did you type that with a straight face? It's already dead and never really had any shot at becoming mainstream. Maybe in another 10-20 years it will come back and try again.

Speak for yourself. In what bizzaro world is VR dead? Hundreds of games are still being released for all the VR headsets and MS and other big players are diving in. Please next time you feel the urge to type a reply think first.

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#29 Posted by kuu2 (11164 posts) -

Oh the fad police are out in full force.

Curved TVs, 3D, underwater smartphones, now we have VR again. What's next that these uninnovative companies will tell us we need next?

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#30 Posted by Daniel_Su123 (1084 posts) -

@quadknight: VR for games has very little use. Microsoft seems to be going more of making Windows into a VR OS. Meaning it's a general purpose platform and not a specific niche.

It seems like that MS wants to replace the monitor

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#31 Posted by waahahah (2462 posts) -

@daniel_su123 said:

I said this many times. Microsoft will have the best chance to standardise VR. The problem with current VR is that it's fragmented, we have Console VR with its own thing, PC VR with theirs and Mobile/portable VR with their own.

Since Microsoft owns a PC platform and Console platform, and also has a standalone device, the only place that MS doesn't have cornered true Gear VR -like Mobile VR.

So APIs. Like UWP, DX12 and the Windows Store will be standard. OpenXR with other companies don't have that luxury of a true scalable platform running on these forms factors.

So in terms of distribution, MS will likely become the biggest PC VR platform overall.

A standard will be born just wait it out.

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#32 Posted by Ten_Pints (3906 posts) -

About as popular as an analogue joystick.

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#33 Posted by cainetao11 (36829 posts) -

So is the drug dealer. I'm not giving either my money

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#34 Posted by Daniel_Su123 (1084 posts) -

@waahahah said:
@daniel_su123 said:

I said this many times. Microsoft will have the best chance to standardise VR. The problem with current VR is that it's fragmented, we have Console VR with its own thing, PC VR with theirs and Mobile/portable VR with their own.

Since Microsoft owns a PC platform and Console platform, and also has a standalone device, the only place that MS doesn't have cornered true Gear VR -like Mobile VR.

So APIs. Like UWP, DX12 and the Windows Store will be standard. OpenXR with other companies don't have that luxury of a true scalable platform running on these forms factors.

So in terms of distribution, MS will likely become the biggest PC VR platform overall.

A standard will be born just wait it out.

Yeah that's not OpenXR. It doesn't solve the exclusive problem.

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#35 Posted by waahahah (2462 posts) -

@daniel_su123 said:
@waahahah said:
@daniel_su123 said:

I said this many times. Microsoft will have the best chance to standardise VR. The problem with current VR is that it's fragmented, we have Console VR with its own thing, PC VR with theirs and Mobile/portable VR with their own.

Since Microsoft owns a PC platform and Console platform, and also has a standalone device, the only place that MS doesn't have cornered true Gear VR -like Mobile VR.

So APIs. Like UWP, DX12 and the Windows Store will be standard. OpenXR with other companies don't have that luxury of a true scalable platform running on these forms factors.

So in terms of distribution, MS will likely become the biggest PC VR platform overall.

A standard will be born just wait it out.

Yeah that's not OpenXR. It doesn't solve the exclusive problem.

microsoft isn't going to "solve" the problem. Just add to it. When a standard is born its going to be based on the most popular headset which will define the standard for future games.

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#36 Posted by Daniel_Su123 (1084 posts) -

@waahahah: You have to note yet Microsoft has a platform that is coming to PC and Console and also going to run on mobile and standalone hardware.

They can already enforce their standard into this through OS control

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#37 Posted by waahahah (2462 posts) -

@daniel_su123: They can't enforce anything, they define an API and features like everyone else and eventually the best API and supporting features will likely win. For instance if the HTC vive wins hands down its incumbent on Microsoft to mirror that API and feature set.