Will PS4 and Switch's success hurt Scorpio?

Both systems are selling at record paces. Do gamers have enough money to shell out for Scorpio? I just spent $500 on Switch along with games. I don't think I can give MS $500+ especially since I have a PC rig. Also, there's going to be heavy hitters for both PS4 and Switch this holiday. I just don't think Scorpio will be for me. What about you, SW? Does it still have a chance?

It honestly is hard to say without being clearer on what Microsoft's strategy is going to be for Xbox Scorpio.

MS doesn't care where you buy and play it's games. Some people like to play games on the PC and some do not. For those people Scorpio is going to be great for them.

This.

On a side note, I am very interested to see how the net and market reacts if the Scorpio would keep getting the better versions of 3rd party games and moreso if a lot are XB/PC X-buy.

I wonder if they can gain substantial ground before the PS5 releases.

XB moving more than a year away from Sony's generation seem interesting to me but only because I've only really been recently following gaming media.

The PS5 most likely won't be released until 2020. Sony has already won this gen so they don't need to panic even if the Scorpio does somewhat well in it's first year.

Scorpio is going to be $799.99 and no one will be able to afford it.

Cool crystal ball

I think Scorpio has an uphill battle ahead of it. MS better be ready to come into E3 swinging hard with new exclusive announcements because Nintendo clearly has dry powder with the successful launch of the Switch and Sony already has secured the high ground in terma of exclusives and market position.

Ultimately, there is no hidden sum with a 6 tflop console that isn't already surpassed with high end PCs. We're not talking about Blast Processing Cell secret sauce graphics voodoo, so it's going to rely on games to propel it as a platform. Without exclusives, XBox is walking face first into a buzz saw this summer.

@charizard1605: Think MS strategy is pretty clear when they say X1S will be their top selling unit. Scorpio manufacturing will not be mass and will serve the smallest base that wants a very powerful console as Spencer said. I don't see what is hard to understand about it. You only ramp up production as demand increases.

Scorpio or rather Flopio is gonna flop harder than pancakes. Power doesn't sell consoles, games do and Xbone is seriously lacking in that department. Phil can promise games till he turns blue in the face but until we see results, it's the same hot air he has been blowing since he took over. MS is in a very precarious situation when it comes to the Flopio. It's gonna be expensive, power doesn't come cheap, and it's launching in the middle of the gen with no exclusive games or reason to buy it other than "4K gaming" and better performance in multiplats.

Some hardcore lems like the ones on SW will buy it but they aren't gonna convince the regular masses that will be seeing the PS4 this holiday season selling at $200 with a shit ton of games and Switch selling with a new 3D Mario. It's gonna be a tough sell to pay out $500-600 to play games that you can either play on an existing platforms with better graphics (PC) or on your existing Xbone. Truth of the matter is that regular PS4, Xbone, and probably Switch will be driving sales this holiday since most people either don't own a 4K TV or plan to own one this year. Lems are gonna attack me right now but they know deep down that I'm right. MS needs to start releasing solid exclusive games not the Flopio.

No it won't.

Yeah exactly. MS doesn't care what system you buy/play games on, as long as it's either an XB1, XB1 S, Scorpio or Win 10 PC... that's what some people don't seem to understand with this whole "what is MS doing putting 1st party games on PC, now Xbox has no exclusives and is irrelevant" argument. Software is more profitable than hardware.

And Scorpio isn't going to sell like hotcakes, everyone knows that. Phil Spencer admitted as much on IGN last week. It's a premium product aimed at a specific market, and MS knows that XB1 S will continue to sell a lot more for the foreseeable future. As for it competing with PS4 & Switch, who knows how it will play out... but Scorpio and Switch are 2 totally different products really, and it's unfair to compare Scorpio sales to the PS4 Slim, since it's a base model. The fairer comparison should be between Scorpio and PS4 Pro... that will be the true battle.

Specifics, bro. Like, Nintendo's Switch strategy was clear in vague terms upon its reveal last October- but what that truly entailed was not until January.

Pointless question until we at least know how much Scorpio will cost.

If its over priced by current current console standards then yes it will no doubt suffer.

If by some miracle the price it at say $399 and its packs a heap of power, no I think it'll sell just fine.

At no point am I expecting it to suddenly make Xbox the #1 console world wide but I am expecting it to increase Xbox sales by a fair bit.

They do care. They have to justify you using their console or their store page because they get money from those, exclusives are built to build these up, for example you buy a ps4 for bloodborne? Well you buy another game on ps4 that's 3rd party and they get a % of that money.

So yes, they do care.

The scorpio won't change anything and the ps4 will beat it, maybe the switch but the switch is > wii u so it'll still delve into the scorpio sales even more.

@charizard1605: What is nintys strategy? Sell as many switch's as possible. They stopped manufacturing the WiiU a while back. It's no mystery.

The X1S will still be the more produced of MS' two because they figure more of the average consumers will go for that between it and Scorpio. I think the strategy is clear

@putaspongeon: They do care. They have to justify you using their console or their store page because they get money from those, exclusives are built to build these up, for example you buy a ps4 for bloodborne? Well you buy another game on ps4 that's 3rd party and they get a % of that money.

So yes, they do care.

The scorpio won't change anything and the ps4 will beat it, maybe the switch but the switch is > wii u so it'll still delve into the scorpio sales even more"

That's absolutely ridiculous. You still have this idea that Scorpio is being made in order to outsell PS4. That's the antithesis to the statement that they know X1S will sell more units than Scorpio. Well if ps4 outsells X1S where is MS logically expecting Scorpio to out sell ps4, but not X1S?

Second, they have a base of gamers that like their offerings. These are the people they are listening to, not you.

Firestone doesn't outsell Goodyear but firestone is still in business with their market share. You take this SW stuff way too seriously in business terms.

The games that Xbox shares with PC are garbage too.

Did I mention anything about outselling? There is a finite amount of buyers out there, you don't have to win to be successful but the ps4, switch, and pc users chip away at those numbers. The scorpio is more niche and now it has to be more niche in a market with less people due to the switch.

They should listen to me, I actually know the business model of gaming, also their fans are losing interest cuz "halo, gears, halo, forza, gears, halo, forza, gears" and the quality are dropping for halo and gears.

It really doesn't have a chance. When the head of Xbox has a change bucket in the streets of Japan, there is a problem.

Without exclusive games it's Xbox Done.

Scorpio is not going to cost $799 e.g. APU chip area size remains the same as XBO.

Power sells Xbox consoles e.g. original Xbox and Xbox 360 (superior multiplatform over PS3 for most cases).

@putaspongeon: Did I mention anything about outselling? There is a finite amount of buyers out there, you don't have to win to be successful but the ps4, switch, and pc users chip away at those numbers. The scorpio is more niche and now it has to be more niche in a market with less people due to the switch.

They should listen to me, I actually know the business model of gaming, also their fans are losing interest cuz "halo, gears, halo, forza, gears, halo, forza, gears" and the quality are dropping for halo and gears."

You said, and I quoted it, "Scorpio won't change anything. The ps4 will still beat it"

What were talking about if not sales of units?

Halo 5 engagement is still growing so someone is obviously playing it.

This year there is neither and plenty of Xbox owners are excited about Sea of Thieves, a larger budget state of decay 2 and crackdown 3. You may not be, but if you spent any time at the uservoice forums, insider program alpha you'd know this. Which goes back to as I said, they have a base that they listen to. It isn't SW, but it's there.

These are the people they are making Scorpio for.

What will hurt Scorpio is if it launches with nothing else but multiplats.

If your theory is true, how come Ubisoft's Xbox One multiplatform game revenue numbers are still growing? Why Xbox One multiplatform game revenue numbers didn't transfer to the PC side?

They both got their asses handed to them by the PS2 and Wii, the weakest consoles of their gens. I'm absolutely right and you're still wrong. power doesn't sell consoles to the masses, games do.

PS4 Pro's APU size is 321 mm^2 while Scorpio's APU size is 362 mm^2. Scorpio has 12 percent chip size increase over PS4 Pro's version. The main difference between the two APUs are the transistor design improvements e.g. Polaris's 2.5X perf watt vs Vega's 4X perf/watt.

PS4 Pro's already has 320 bit memory bus PCB with 256 bit GDDR5-7000 8 GB + 64 bit DDR3 1 GB. PS4 Pro is the world's first game console with 320 bit memory bus PCB.

Scorpio's 384 bit memory bus PCB with 384 bit GDDR5-7000 12 GB. There's only a minor cost difference between RX-480 4 GB and 8 GB variants. Scorpio is the world's first game console with 384 bit memory bus PCB. Some AIB sells RX-480 8 GB as 4 GB.

100% truth.

Your ramblings are meaningless in the real world. Flopio will get dominated this holiday whether you like it or not. It needs games not empty promises of power.

MS wasn't able to lower the original Xbox's price since NVIDIA is not passing chip fabrication price reduction savings to MS, hence the legal battle between MS vs NVIDIA.

Switching to ATI improved Xbox's sales numbers over NVIDIA powered box. You are absolutely wrong.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wii_sales

Wii's install base 101 million. Wii was sold with motion control game play experience and it's sales success didn't transfer to Wii U.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xbox_360_sales

Xbox 360's install base 84 million

You're contradicting yourself lol. You admit I'm right with your first paragraph by giving excuses why Xbox got dominated in sales by the PS2 then you proceed to say I'm absolutely wrong. Which is it? You're a clown. ? Do you actually think before you type?

If you are going to make a price estimate, make sure it's based on real world BOM parameters..

What you failed to understand is the original Xbox has the NVIDIA factor while Xbox 360 has ATI which enables MS to have pricing flexibility over time.

Despite NVIDIA cost factor, original Xbox sold better than Wii U.

Both Sony and MS ejected IBM hence reducing their IP cost. PS3 has NVIDIA and Rambus cost factors, and Sony has ejected them. PS3 exclusive games has mitigated NVIDIA and Rambus cost factors.

Scorpio is just a replay game plan to mirror Xbox 360's superiority on multiplatform games over PS3 and there's no NVIDIA factor with Scorpio.

Nintendo's main reason for selecting NVIDIA is software support. NVIDIA already stated they wouldn't engage AMD on commodity hardware race to bottom price quotes.

Both Sony and MS can support their own hardware i.e. MS and Sony don't value NVIDIA's value added software support.

The refreshed Shield TV for year 2016 still has the same specs as the old version with old version's price i.e. no movement on cost reduction.

@stuff238: speak for yourself.

People are acting like the scorpio (not phil spencer but people in this forum) is going to win them the console generation.

I mean halo 5 is arguably the last good exclusive that the xbox one has gotten.

Idk, I might get sea of thieves on steam (already on steam) down the road on sale if I have friends who play it, however I'm not too rushed, the game looks like it'd be fun for a bit then quickly fall apart since you do the same thing over and over again, also am I the only one who got a tad annoyed with the slurping and burping noises in their showcase of it?

Never played the first state of decay.

Crackdown apparently is going through some trouble, not cancellation trouble but trouble, the guy who dropped the scalebound cancellation news brought that up. That game just feels too gimmicky and I could see that not really working too well since it's promising far too much with said gimmick.

They need to absolutely blow sony out of the water (as in sony needs to **** up as well) to stop sinking honestly. There is only so much market and sony has been garnering support and not hearing anything till a certain date is only making converts to pc, ps4, and switch. If the wii u was still a modern thing, the xbox brand would be in a much better position, however the switch has taken away a good chunk of the player base, it was a good shot of luck or a great idea to release the switch when it did considering the xbox users are kind of at an all new low, especially with the cancellation of scalebound, I don't think microsoft foresaw the switch doing what it did and thus it imade them pay. I think they were planning on trying to ride the waves a bit before dropping some more but I think the switch being successful is the reason why phil spencer teased future games being released before they planned on it, they needed to do something.

If microsoft aren't careful, they might end up in 3rd place in place of nintendo.

@quadknight: Stop embarrassing yourself quacknight.

Mmm I don't think the Scorpio is going to win the console generation? When Microsoft say they'll release the most powerful console ever, I'd love to play Red Dead Redemption 2 on it.

Halo 5 was fun, but Forza Horizon III is pretty amazing too if we're talking about "console" exclusives, the casuals who don't game on PC, like half my dumbass friends on Xbox...lol

Sea of Thieves is on Steam?! That's awesome! Didn't know that...lol

Check it out on Steam bro, it's actually a fun game to play, I enjoyed it; despite a few glitches and bugs.

Mmmm I loved the first Crackdown, so not sure about the "trouble". I am looking forward to Crackdown 3.

I never cared for Scalebound to begin with, but it's unfortunate for those who were looking forward to it. And I mean, do you care if Microsoft comes in 3rd place or if Switch is in 2nd or 1st place for example? I mean, I don't care who comes in first place, I'll buy what I like or whatever my buddies play. I always game on PC first and foremost, but lately been on the Xbox One S, since it was a gift. I'm waiting for E3 to see what the future looks like for the big 3 (Sony, Nintendo, & Microsoft)

@putaspongeon: I mean halo 5 is arguably the last good exclusive that the xbox one has gotten.

Idk, I might get sea of thieves on steam (already on steam) down the road on sale if I have friends who play it, however I'm not too rushed, the game looks like it'd be fun for a bit then quickly fall apart since you do the same thing over and over again, also am I the only one who got a tad annoyed with the slurping and burping noises in their showcase of it?

Never played the first state of decay.

Crackdown apparently is going through some trouble, not cancellation trouble but trouble, the guy who dropped the scalebound cancellation news brought that up. That game just feels too gimmicky and I could see that not really working too well since it's promising far too much with said gimmick.

They need to absolutely blow sony out of the water (as in sony needs to **** up as well) to stop sinking honestly. There is only so much market and sony has been garnering support and not hearing anything till a certain date is only making converts to pc, ps4, and switch. If the wii u was still a modern thing, the xbox brand would be in a much better position, however the switch has taken away a good chunk of the player base, it was a good shot of luck or a great idea to release the switch when it did considering the xbox users are kind of at an all new low, especially with the cancellation of scalebound, I don't think microsoft foresaw the switch doing what it did and thus it imade them pay. I think they were planning on trying to ride the waves a bit before dropping some more but I think the switch being successful is the reason why phil spencer teased future games being released before they planned on it, they needed to do something"

Meanwhile, Gears 4 has the same meta average as Halo 5 and FH3 in the 90s. But yeah halo 5 is their last good game, sure.

So we're going with what the news breaker of Scalebound said as truth now? Because they also detailed Platinums failings there.

Sea of thieves is on Steam? News to to me.

How is Switch taking player base when a person cannot play Madden, RDR2, Andromeda, etc on switch? Switch won't win the consumer market that wants the biggest third party games. Sony will take most and Xbox second. But like you said, you don't have to be first to be in business. You're refuting you're own babyback.

Here you go again Mr"I know the console business model". You couldn't run 100 feet much less a billion dollar corp.

They don't need to blow anyone out of the water. They own Havok and Simplygon. They get paid for 80% of the games made in this industry. LOL ?

Opps, I just checkd, it was we happy few and a few others that were on steam, not Sea of Thieves. I don't have much trouble playing a windows 10 store thing but it is kind of needing a lot of work, I'm certainly not picking it over steam or gog, and I view origin and even uplay over honestly.

I forgot who it was, maybe shinobi, whoever revealed the scalebound issue, he clarified it wasn't scalebound issues but still trouble. Scalebound was the only microsoft game I was really interested in at all, so yeah, it really pissed me off when it was cancelled.

My friend and I are really enjoying Crawl, we always like TowerFall Ascension and if you have a ps4 we have been playing dead nation (I don't have ps+ so playing with me wouldn't be possible there), going to get alienation, nex machina, and matterfall on merit of dead nation and resogun's quality.

But yeah, you wouldn't happen to have Warhammer 40k: Dawn of War 2 and/or Vermintide, would you? I just left a serious relationship and I was going to go through the games with her but now I just have the games and no one to actively play with.

I agree with you man, I hate the Windows Store. I was debating about getting rid of my copy of Forza Horizon III for the Xbox and picking it up for PC instead. Just not sure, cause I would rather deal with U-Play then the Windows Store...lol. Origin isn't as bad as before, my preferred choice is and will always be Steam.

And that sucks man! Sorry to hear, I've been in that spot, in which I had to end a serious relationship. Distractions are the best medicine for that, you'll be okay man in the long run.

And I don't actually have Dawn of War II, but I am looking forward to Dawn of War III, which comes out next month on the 27th, you planning on picking it up? You play any other games on PC? I'm currently trying to beat the campaign on Battlefield 1

@kinky-unikorn: Oh hell yeah, steam is the go to on pc. But I was here when it was launched and it was hated.

Here in SW the babybackballbagbullshit is so high, things like that are supposed to be great yesterday. Then its forgotten how many complained when it started. I have no problem with W10 store because my games are in addition to the copy I bought on X1. Have had no trouble other than my PC wasn't able to run Gears 4 suitably but that's my specs.

I've had a play through of gears of war 4, it's literally the safest piece of shit ever and the writing is borderline trash. But yeah, the story mode was horrid.

"they", that was a different group all together who said that.

Switch has the benefit of on the go gaming, it has the benefit of a collective location for both nintendo's console and handheld developers dropping their games on.

Considering how many mistakes microsoft is making with the xbox brand and it's still afloat, along with how many stupid shit mistakes nintendo makes, I could probably run either company better than they could. I don't have any interest to run a company though unless down the line I want to create an acting school or something.

No they don't.

But yeah, not sure why everyone like gears of war 4, it's literally the most redundant game in the series.

Tabletop Simulator is something I really like.

http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198061442437/games/?tab=all

Take a look through, I have quite a few.

http://www.lorenzostanco.com/lab/steam/

If you put my profile into that link's bar, it should give you a list of all the games, then you can narrow it down to online multiplayer games if you want an easier time, or you can just look through my list, up to you. I'm going to bed since I have a busy day tomorrow, night. (Well I'm certainly keeping busy, let's hope it gives me more purpose than stress :P )

Also feel free to add me on steam.

If Scorpio delivers generation jump difference from XBO, then the result would be different.

GP104's native FP16 is 1/64 the speed of FP32.

GP104 has the following SM features

1. 2.4X rate integer 8 bit

2. 1.2X rate integer 16 bit... Think of DirectX 8 era pixel shaders.

3. single rate FP16 via FP32 emulation. No memory bandwidth reduction with Fp16 usage.

4. single rate FP32.

Heavy optimized NVIDIA Gameworks games would be geared towards Maxwell/Pascal strength.

All GCN version 1.0 to 1.3 has the following CU features

1. single rate integer 8 bit

2. single rate integer 16 bit

3. single rate FP16 via FP32 emulation for GCN 1.0/1.1. It's naïve FP16 on GCN 1.2 and 1.3, hence reduce memory bandwidth usage.

4. single rate FP32

GCN 1.1 e.g. R7-360 and R9-390X

GCN 1.2 e.g. R9-380X and Fury X

CGN 1.3 e.g. RX-480.

Vega architecture has the following NCU features.

1. quad rate integer 8 bit

2. double rate integer 16 bit

3. double rate FP16.

4. single rate FP32.

Current AMD GPUs needs very high FP32 TFLOPS to speed up other data types, while Maxwell/lesser Pascal GPU with lower TFLOPS hides their higher integer performance.

TressFX running on Vega's double rate FP16 feature.

R9-390X estimate is only for baseline performance if Scorpio recycles GCN version 1.1/1.2/1.3 architecture. If Scorpio has Vega NCU, it would be faster than R9-390X.

Scorpio with 6TFLOPS FP32 GPU and Vega NCU

1. quad rate integer 8 bit = 24 TIOPS. Rivals GTX 1080.

2. double rate integer 16 bit = 12 TIOPS. Scorpio exceeds your GTX 1080.

3. double rate FP16 = 12 TFLOPS. Scorpio exceeds your GTX 1080.

4. single rate FP32 = 6 TFLOPS. GTX 1080 is superior to Scorpio with FP32.

VS

R9-390X with 5.9 TFLOPS FP32 GPU and normal CU

1. single rate integer 8 bit = 5.9 TIOPS. Scorpio exceeds R9-390X

2. single rate integer 16 bit = 5.9 TIOPS. Scorpio exceeds R9-390X

3. single rate FP16 = 5.9 TFLOPS. Scorpio exceeds R9-390X

4. single rate FP32 = 5.9 TFLOP. Scorpio exceeds R9-390X

Fury X with 8.6 TFLOPS FP32 GPU and normal CU

1. single rate integer 8 bit = 8.6 TIOPS. Scorpio exceeds Fury X.

2. single rate integer 16 bit = 8.6 TIOPS. Scorpio exceeds Fury X.

3. single rate FP16 = 8.6 TFLOPS. Scorpio exceeds Fury X

4. single rate FP32 = 8.6 TFLOPS. Fury X is superior to Scorpio in FP32.

http://wccftech.com/343i-frank-o-connor-xbox-scorpio-beefy/

although I probably "know" in that I might have seen it in a slide or something, it's literally not something I have time to think about now and I actually couldn't remember whatever specs I've been exposed to even if I was tortured. I literally couldn't leak or answer a question that went beyond "Can I do this? Does it support that? How many of these could it render?"

What I do remember is that it's beefier than I expected.

1st party developer expected 6 TFLOPS FP32 scaled current gen GCN, but Vega 11 at 6 TFLOPS FP32 would have delivered a beefier hardware.

AMD has associated 4K gaming with Scorpio and they didn't associated 4K gaming for RX-480 and PS4 Pro.

PROJECT SCORPIO IS A "FULL BLOWN NEXT-GEN MACHINE" SAYS XBOX DEV

Creator of Ori and the Blind Forest, Thomas Mahler took to NeoGAF to answer a question about whether Scorpio is a PS4 Pro style console update, or a whole new generation of Xbox console. His answer - it's sort of both:

"Scorpio isn't just a half-assed upgrade (which the PS4 Pro kinda is...), but a full blown next-gen machine that's just backwards-compatible to your current library."

That's a little outside of the company line - Microsoft has previously downplayed the idea of a separation between its consoles, even saying that Scorpio will put an end to the idea of console generations altogether.

Mahler also reiterated his point on backwards compatibility, saying that, "from this point on, similar to PCs, you'll not lose your library when you buy a next-gen system."

Xbox's Phil Spencer - who played the first games on the new system this week - has previously made this point clear, but has also said that all games released on Scorpio will be playable on Xbox One, a point Mahler doesn't cover in his post.

People are really jumping the gun on calling the Switch a success after less than a week on the market. Wait for the scalpers to return what they can't sell and the drought that follows the Zelda hype train to start and I doubt it continues to sell well. It won't come close to matching the PS4.

I'm laughing at the idea that you use the launch weekend of a console to say that it is selling "at a record pace" as a point. That's so ridiculous. Every console sells "well" at launch. Hell Switch may have sold well but it did not outsell the Xbox One launch, a console that was significantly more expensive at launch. Since when was a single point of data, a "pace"? Couldn't you have just been more overt and say that you hope Scorpio fails? Even if you don't feel that way I feel like that would have prevented you from making a thread with such a nonsense point. Also, using your anecdotal purchase of $500 to some how imply people may have the same dilemma. People will buy the console they want and the success of another platform does not drive down the success of another. It's such a silly point and analogous to people comparing Xbox to Ps4 and saying that it is failing when it is selling well. Not everything is black and white, on or off. People will buy Scorpio if it is MS proves it is worth it to that individual.

The Sony fanboys are so butthurt about losing the Power Advantage ..... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-BHCoEDxTg Rumor about the PS5 releasing second half of 2018 ... 10Tflops! ahahahahhahaahah

Fanboys like Quadknight, Dakur, etc. The Xbox Scorpio is going to be the most powerful console for years, most likely until 2018. Hahahahahahaha

It's more like Scorpio's irrelevancy hurts Scorpio.

PS5 fall 2018 .... 10Tflops. Hahhhhhhhhhhahahaahhahahahahahahahahahahahaa