Will MS have the strongest console next gen?

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Avatar image for tdkmillsy
#51 Posted by tdkmillsy (3137 posts) -

@tormentos said:
@tdkmillsy said:
@xantufrog said:

My Spidey senses tell me they will be virtually the same. The big difference will be marketing and philosophy - exclusives vs gamesforeveryone; buy our console vs giveusmoneyforgamesonewayoranother

and price

@cainetao11 said:

It was easy to do with the X1X. The Pro was known to be 4tflops. PS5 specs aren’t known yet so to go out and state Scarlet is most powerful would be stupid.

What he said.

They are following same path as the X launch. E3 2016 talk about it vaguely (like this E3) E3 2017 launch it (which they will do next year).

Sony could well have gone all out to try and have a better console, just like Microsoft have stepped up their game developers. But we don't know anything and at what cost?

We don't even know PS5 will be out next year yet. Why has Sony not said so, have they got something to hide.

You can make so much speculation out of rumours and opinions it just gets silly.

Yeah but i am the joke i guess you turn on your wishful thinking machine full force.

Funny i have a link backing my argument and once again you have well your self.

So your argument is what? the PS5 will be more powerful. Based on what a link to someone claiming inside information and the fact they didn't say will be the most powerful. Somebody with no reputation.

What am I wishing for exactly. I have the option to buy a PC if I'm not happy with the power on the next Xbox.

Wheres the link to Say PS5 will be out next year? from Sony.

Again you miss the point, your speculating at best. My point is simply the fact we don't know enough.

Sony didn't claim it would be the most powerful neither.

Sad man simply Sad

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#52 Edited by tormentos (29239 posts) -

@tdkmillsy said:

So your argument is what? the PS5 will be more powerful. Based on what a link to someone claiming inside information and the fact they didn't say will be the most powerful. Somebody with no reputation.

What am I wishing for exactly. I have the option to buy a PC if I'm not happy with the power on the next Xbox.

Wheres the link to Say PS5 will be out next year? from Sony.

Again you miss the point, your speculating at best. My point is simply the fact we don't know enough.

Sony didn't claim it would be the most powerful neither.

Sad man simply Sad

Actually i don't know which will have the most powerful console.

What i exposed in this thread is that MS wording was weird considering they don't hold back when they know they have a clear advantage.

Something i wasn't the only one who noted it as my link back up,then info in form of rumors point at the PS5 been stronger.

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2016-09-07-sony-announces-playstation-4-pro

The Pro was announce 2 months before launch.

https://www.theverge.com/2013/2/20/4009410/sony-playstation-4-ps4-announcement

The PS4 was confirmed to come in february 2013,8 months before launch.

So again it means nothing if they didn't say they will launch on 2020,is too early.

Well the ones who bragged on every single site about the most poweful console ever built was MS.

Avatar image for Shewgenja
#53 Edited by Shewgenja (21456 posts) -

Lots of factors at play here.

1. We dont even know for sure that PS5 is launching in 2020, yet. We are all just assuming that they will have the same hardware configuration generationally.

2. Japanese publishers have successfully embraced PC development this generation. This means that developers who have the closest relationships with Sony can offer meaningful feedback in PS5 research and development. Given AMDs ability to fabricate custom silicon for the ps4, all bets are off on the assumption that PS5s APU is simply an over the shelf part and that brings me to 3...

3. Sony architected PS4 predicated on the notion that the console market was going to shrink and financially pulling out of a nosedive. PS5, on the other hand, has a proven market to corner and not only a far stronger Playstation business to support it but a healthy parent corporation as well. TLDR: it's obvious that Sony can and likely will afford a deeper hardware investment to ensure some advantage.

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#54 Posted by tdkmillsy (3137 posts) -

@tormentos said:
@tdkmillsy said:

So your argument is what? the PS5 will be more powerful. Based on what a link to someone claiming inside information and the fact they didn't say will be the most powerful. Somebody with no reputation.

What am I wishing for exactly. I have the option to buy a PC if I'm not happy with the power on the next Xbox.

Wheres the link to Say PS5 will be out next year? from Sony.

Again you miss the point, your speculating at best. My point is simply the fact we don't know enough.

Sony didn't claim it would be the most powerful neither.

Sad man simply Sad

Actually i don't know which will have the most powerful console.

What i exposed in this thread is that MS wording was weird considering they don't hold back when they know they have a clear advantage.

Something i wasn't the only one who noted it as my link back up,then info in form of rumors point at the PS5 been stronger.

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2016-09-07-sony-announces-playstation-4-pro

The Pro was announce 2 months before launch.

https://www.theverge.com/2013/2/20/4009410/sony-playstation-4-ps4-announcement

The PS4 was confirmed to come in february 2013,8 months before launch.

So again it means nothing if they didn't say they will launch on 2020,is too early.

Well the ones who bragged on every single site about the most poweful console ever built was MS.

So your whole thread was simply to say it was weird that they didn't say they had the most powerful console, even when the specs for neither console has been released.

With everything we know so far (and that isn't much) the most likely explanation is that if both consoles release at the same time will be similar in performance or different in price. With neither company saying they will be more powerful, its most likely same price same performance (give or take).

Perhaps I should create a thread to discuss how it was odd Sony didn't release a date but chose to say it wont be in the next 12 months at least.

OK that's the end of that then. Great thread lets move on.

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#55 Posted by Tigerbalm (1092 posts) -

Both consoles will range from 10-12 Tflops

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#56 Posted by ThatDBFan (426 posts) -

@tormentos: From what MS announced, it's only going to be on equal footing of the Ps5.

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#57 Posted by HalcyonScarlet (8454 posts) -

Not interested. Has no exclusives.

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#58 Posted by Raining51 (1145 posts) -

There's a good chance they will but it's obviously a bit early to tell... that's my main throught I suppose.

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#59 Posted by EG101 (2014 posts) -

No one knows except AMD.

I'm going to choose my next gen console going by these specs so if MS wants my next gen money they better deliver a significantly superior console. I don't care if it costs more than PS5 just as long as the better specs justify the increase in cost.

Now if PS5 is more powerful then I'll simply go with that.

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#60 Posted by BigBadBully (2166 posts) -

Going to assume Scarlet will release before PS5 hence the wording is changed. So can't really say it's the most powerful when PS5 will follow after. Then looking at Xbox moving into software/services where consoles are just seen as another platform to buy into it's services. Finally, with Scarlet possibly not being the strongest, Xbox is still pretty adamant it will be a strong box.

Now for Sony I think it's a nice win to grab the buzz word most powerful console. That would be huge for them. PlayStation is behind Xbox in services and have yet to see what kind of service Sony can spin up to compete with Gamepass and if Sony will look at acquiring developers.

Overall I think Sony is going to really prosper with the MS Deal for streaming/networking. They'll def have the backbone to pull it off as Xcloud impressions are good and it works. Sony just needs to build up a competitive service like Gamepass, grab up some studios like From Software, Kojima Productions, Platinum and etc.. look at bringing back/building teams like Evolution so you'll have a constant flow of games.

Finally, def. Will be funny to see Sony grab buzz for most powerful console. From the wording of MS during E3, it does sound like PS5 will grab the power back.

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#61 Edited by ronvalencia (28236 posts) -

@tormentos said:

There is a complete different body language of MS this time around regarding Scarlet and i think they may be a giveaway of MS having lower specs than sony again.

1-First things first when the xbox one X was unveil MS had no problem calling the xbox one X the most powerful console ever built period,in fact it was so confident it screamed 6TF,true 4k fastest frames and what not.

This time around MS body language is different,they didn't call scarlet the most powerful console ever built,they call it the most powerful console WE ever built which refer to them and not the industry like they did with the xbox one x.

Then the fact that no actual specs were given,contrary to how MS was with the xbox one X,and some of you may say is to early or sony hasn't say either,that is true but MS is the one standing in a conferent talking about its next gen console,which they openly claim is coming next year,on 2016 xbox one X specs were on lock 1 year before it launch,some how this ones are not confirmed yet because MS is not telling.

There may be a reason to this and is simply,saying we have a 12TF machine or something like that leave them open to a direct comparison with sony,which will surely exploit it.

I find rather odd to that they clain 4 times as powerful as the xbox one x,which make no sense AMD simply will not have a 24TF GPU ready for early next year,which leave me to think that MS is actually talking about Processing power CPU side and not actual GPU side.

So what do you think system wars?

It’s actually curious because one thing Microsoft was not doing was strutting about saying they had built the most powerful console ever made. Their chose of words was deliberate, they said it’s “the most powerful console we’ve ever made,” and there are rumblings from industry insiders that the PS5 actually might have a slight power edge over Scarlett. Back when it was PS4 Pro versus Xbox One X, all Microsoft could talk about was its power advantage. Now? Not so much.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/paultassi/2019/06/09/microsoft-fails-to-capitalize-on-sonys-absence-with-a-surprisingly-light-xbox-scarlett-reveal/#61b3557b1991

Edit.

For Xbox Scarlet, estimated 380 mm2 to 400 mm2 size monolithic chip is unprecedented for a game console.

Ryzen 8 core chiplet + 5700 XT alone is already about 321 mm2. Add "hardware accelerated" ray-tracing and the resulting APU chip would be large.

Both 5700 XT and TU106 (RTX 2070) has about 10 billion transistors with NVIDIA Turing TU106 delivering more features e.g. split TFLOPS (floats CUDA including RPM) and TIOPS (Integer CUDA including RPM), RT and Tensor cores (more RPM).

5700 XT shares it's RPM, FP32 and INT32 workload on the the same shader resource.

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#62 Edited by tormentos (29239 posts) -

@ronvalencia said:

For Xbox Scarlet, estimated 380 mm2 to 400 mm2 size monolithic chip is unprecedented for a game console.

Ryzen 8 core chiplet + 5700 XT alone is already about 321 mm2. Add "hardware accelerated" ray-tracing and the resulting APU chip would be large.

Both 5700 XT and TU106 (RTX 2070) has about 10 billion transistors with NVIDIA Turing TU106 delivering more features e.g. split TFLOPS (floats CUDA including RPM) and TIOPS (Integer CUDA including RPM), RT and Tensor cores (more RPM).

5700 XT shares it's RPM, FP32 and INT32 workload on the the same shader resource.

Yes so was gthe xbox one Soc 5 billion transistors no a single soc was bigger in the console market in 2013.

Now how do you feel about the PS5 been more powerful than scarlet like rumors claim?

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#63 Posted by Random_Matt (4320 posts) -
@tigerbalm said:

Both consoles will range from 10-12 Tflops

Nope, be a cut down 5700 XT.

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#64 Edited by ronvalencia (28236 posts) -

@tormentos said:
@ronvalencia said:

For Xbox Scarlet, estimated 380 mm2 to 400 mm2 size monolithic chip is unprecedented for a game console.

Ryzen 8 core chiplet + 5700 XT alone is already about 321 mm2. Add "hardware accelerated" ray-tracing and the resulting APU chip would be large.

Both 5700 XT and TU106 (RTX 2070) has about 10 billion transistors with NVIDIA Turing TU106 delivering more features e.g. split TFLOPS (floats CUDA including RPM) and TIOPS (Integer CUDA including RPM), RT and Tensor cores (more RPM).

5700 XT shares it's RPM, FP32 and INT32 workload on the the same shader resource.

Yes so was gthe xbox one Soc 5 billion transistors no a single soc was bigger in the console market in 2013.

Now how do you feel about the PS5 been more powerful than scarlet like rumors claim?

XBO's transistors was wasted for 32 MB ESRAM to mitigate the slower/cheaper DDR3 and Kinect related $499 retail price target. I countered post in twitter against the person (Andrew Reiner) who claim it.

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#65 Edited by ronvalencia (28236 posts) -

@Random_Matt said:
@tigerbalm said:

Both consoles will range from 10-12 Tflops

Nope, be a cut down 5700 XT.

Both X1X and PS4 Pro exceeded RX 480's 36 CU design. It's AMD's own cash problems for smallish RX 480's 232 mm2 size chip which resulted in AMD's OC while both MS and Sony are willing to pay for larger chips.

RX-480 has 1120 Mhz base clock.

PS4 Pro, Sony paid for 40 CU size GPU which resulted in 36 CU active at 911 Mhz. Sony's solution reached 81 percent of clock speed from RX-480's 1120 Mhz base clock (worst case).

Xbox One X, MS paid for 44 CU size GPU which resulted in 40 CU active at 1172Mhz . MS was able to configure 6 FLOPS GPU which consumed less power than AMD's RX 580's 6.1 TFLOPS. MS has beaten AMD's RX 480/580 configuration with MS's custom power curve and power management circuits. MS's solution reached 93.2 percent of clock speed from RX-580's 1257 Mhz base clock (worst case). MS's custom power curve and power management circuits was ripped from NVIDIA's designs ie. each PCB auto-tunes (auto under-voltage) with it's GPU silicon quality. MS's Surface team has experience with NVIDIA's mobile GPU equipped 2-in-1 laptops.

MS's 44 CU is 22 percent larger than RX-480/580's 36 CU.

Sony's 40 CU is 11 percent larger than RX-480/580's 36 CU.

AMD's Vega II doesn't have X1X's auto-under voltage tuning power management design when end users are under-volt'ing their VII by manual software setting, hence AMD's power circuitry is stupid. It's getting ridiculous when end users are finding their own power curve profile for AMD.

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#66 Posted by scatteh316 (10253 posts) -

Unless they have a spy inside Sony they have no idea how fast PS5 is so they're not going to go screaming 'we are faster' only for it to not to be and end up with egg on their face.

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#67 Posted by scatteh316 (10253 posts) -

@tdkmillsy said:

We don't even know PS5 will be out next year yet. Why has Sony not said so, have they got something to hide.

That's a good point.....the reason PS5 is faster could simply be because it's releasing later.

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#68 Edited by SaltSlasher (1313 posts) -

Does anyone even fact check themselves anymore, I mean put some actual effort into your articles so we don't get shit posts like this...Basically what he/you've said means nothing, because they in fact, did not say for certain it would be, and didn't say it is the strongest until they could fully prove it.

In E3 June 2016: Phil said he BELIEVEDit will be the most powerful console ever built when it releases, Sony had not mentioned anything yet, but Phil likely made assumption they doing mid-gen as well. Others in video mentioned its the most powerful console built to date. Because to date, base PS4 was strongest.

In September 2016: PS4 Pro was announced for first time, which was 3 months after Scorpio was first announced. It released that November in 2016.

In E3 2017: They claimed the Xbox One X is the world's most powerful console, which was several months AFTER the PS4 Pro had been released, which means they easily could make such claims

As for saying x4 more powerful than the One X, that is simplest way to explain cause this time, he knows for a fact a PS5 is coming, so he can't make any basic predictions, and since he does know its coming, he knows he's way better off waiting til next E3 or til after PS5 is announced to make any claims.

I personally believe a bunch of Sony fanboys are the ones going around spreading rumors, cause the few I've seen industry who've made comments are known Xbox haters. There will be a war brewing, and if posts like this are the foreshadow to conversations we have, then I'll likely go fishing, buy the Xbox and call it a generation.

Avatar image for Pedro
#69 Edited by Pedro (35627 posts) -

@saltslasher: I think the select Sony fannies have been dying on the inside with the existence of the Xbox One X. It has been over two years of the X being the dominant console. Power matters a lot to these folks but they can't brag about power anymore and its killing them. So, any hint of Sony having a power advantage flips the power doesn't matter narrative and give them hope of their system being the most powerful again.

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#70 Posted by SecretPolice (35358 posts) -

Super Mighty Xbox Anaconda will easily swallow and digest whole all other systems out there so yes, Go Bigly or go home. lol :P

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#71 Posted by sealionact (4157 posts) -

@tormentos: What a silly comparison between the x1x launch, and the x2. Psfaux pro was already out, and ms was launching the x1x - not announcing it, as they did the x2 at e3.

Once both new consoles have launched, one company will call their console the most powerful...until then, both Sony and ms are only releasing vague specs, so how has the body language changed when they dont know the full details?

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#72 Edited by tormentos (29239 posts) -

@sealionact:

The xbox one x was announced exactly in the same time frame as Scarlet,E3 2016 and release in November 2017,Scarlet was announced E3 2019 and will launch in November 2020.

Is the exact same time,but this time they dont have the more powerful console or at least they are not sure enough about it.

Avatar image for EG101
#73 Edited by EG101 (2014 posts) -

@Grey_Eyed_Elf said:

They were talking about the CPU when they said 4x faster.

The GPU won't even be 12TFLOPs. Navi 5700XT is a a $499 GPU with 9.7 TFLOPS.

I have been telling people for months now 9-10TFLOPS is what the consoles will get from AMD and even know you plebs think its a 12TFLOP GPU... You have any idea what TDP is?... Navi can't do 12TFLOPS at 150w on a $399 console.

If they can't get at least 12 TF's then I'll just wait for the eventual mid-gen refresh and continue to enjoy my XB1X.

Avatar image for EG101
#74 Posted by EG101 (2014 posts) -

@tormentos said:
@ronvalencia said:

For Xbox Scarlet, estimated 380 mm2 to 400 mm2 size monolithic chip is unprecedented for a game console.

Ryzen 8 core chiplet + 5700 XT alone is already about 321 mm2. Add "hardware accelerated" ray-tracing and the resulting APU chip would be large.

Both 5700 XT and TU106 (RTX 2070) has about 10 billion transistors with NVIDIA Turing TU106 delivering more features e.g. split TFLOPS (floats CUDA including RPM) and TIOPS (Integer CUDA including RPM), RT and Tensor cores (more RPM).

5700 XT shares it's RPM, FP32 and INT32 workload on the the same shader resource.

Yes so was gthe xbox one Soc 5 billion transistors no a single soc was bigger in the console market in 2013.

Now how do you feel about the PS5 been more powerful than scarlet like rumors claim?

Now you're being facetious.

You know the whole story on how MS ended up with the bigger chip but I'll go ahead and repeat it for you.

MS knew from the outset that XB1 needed to have 8 Gigs of Ram to do the Kinect and TV stuff. During the design stages of XB1 and PS4 the only way to get 8Gigs of Ram into a console size APU was to use DDR3 Ram which only had 65 GBPS bandwidth. So MS planned on using DDR3 with ES-Ram to compensate for the lack of bandwidth on the DDR3. This meant that ES-Ram was taking up a huge chunk of Die space on the APU for the XB1 and due to that fact had less CU's than PS4.

Sony on the other hand was planning to only put 4 Gigs of GDDR5 Ram in PS4. GDDR5 has superior bandwidth to DDR3 so it is much better for video Ram but during the planning stages you could only get 4 Gigs of GDDR5 into a console size APU. This where all the XB1 is more powerful than PS4 rumors came from, the fact XB1 was getting 8 Gigs and PS4 was getting 4 Gigs of Ram. Last minute due to a die shrink, GDDR5's process node was made small enough that you could actually get 8 full Gigs of GDDR5 on to a console size APU. Sony took a gamble and it paid off. They essentially got lucky that a die shrink allowed PS4 to get 8 Gigs of Ram.

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#75 Edited by ronvalencia (28236 posts) -

It comes down to which company has learnt from NVIDIA's craftsmanship in regards to VRM design.

Both Sony and MS has similar size CU count GPUs with PS4 Pro (40 CU) and X1X (44 CU), but MS was able to beat AMD's RX-580 (185 watts, 6.1 TFLOPS) design which in turn beats PS4 Pro.

Surface Team's existence is important since this group has experience with NVIDIA mobile GPU hardware with access to NVIDIA's reference designs.

AMD slap on vapor cooling on mid range RX 5700/RX 5700 XT/RX 5700 XT AE instead of inferior heat-pipe design.

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#76 Posted by Raining51 (1145 posts) -

No

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#77 Posted by sealionact (4157 posts) -

@tormentos: The announcement timeframe has got nothing to with it. The pro was already released when ms teased scorpio, and thus ms could justify saying that x1x was the most powerful console.

Ps5 has only been teased, so has x2....so why do you think either Sony or Ms can claim being more powerful, if both dont have any idea how powerful the other console is?

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#78 Posted by BoxRekt (2024 posts) -
@EG101 said:

No one knows except AMD.

I'm going to choose my next gen console going by these specs so if MS wants my next gen money they better deliver a significantly superior console. I don't care if it costs more than PS5 just as long as the better specs justify the increase in cost.

Now if PS5 is more powerful then I'll simply go with that.

You should 100% go with MS's next gen console even if it's weaker. thums up.

Avatar image for boxrekt
#79 Edited by BoxRekt (2024 posts) -
@Random_Matt said:
@tigerbalm said:

Both consoles will range from 10-12 Tflops

Nope, be a cut down 5700 XT.

XT has no hardware ray-tracing so that prediction is out.

@BigBadBully said:

Going to assume Scarlet will release before PS5 hence the wording is changed. So can't really say it's the most powerful when PS5 will follow after. Then looking at Xbox moving into software/services where consoles are just seen as another platform to buy into it's services. Finally, with Scarlet possibly not being the strongest, Xbox is still pretty adamant it will be a strong box.

Now for Sony I think it's a nice win to grab the buzz word most powerful console. That would be huge for them. PlayStation is behind Xbox in services and have yet to see what kind of service Sony can spin up to compete with Gamepass and if Sony will look at acquiring developers.

Overall I think Sony is going to really prosper with the MS Deal for streaming/networking. They'll def have the backbone to pull it off as Xcloud impressions are good and it works. Sony just needs to build up a competitive service like Gamepass, grab up some studios like From Software, Kojima Productions, Platinum and etc.. look at bringing back/building teams like Evolution so you'll have a constant flow of games.

Finally, def. Will be funny to see Sony grab buzz for most powerful console. From the wording of MS during E3, it does sound like PS5 will grab the power back.

No chance, PS5 and the next xbox aren't going to release more than 2 months apart from each other.

And no one cares about all that xcloud crap you're talking about. It's all theory that's unproven demand. Console gamers want consoles and great exclusive games, all that other crap is meaningless if they never buy into the xbox brand to begin with.

Avatar image for tormentos
#80 Edited by tormentos (29239 posts) -

@EG101 said:

Now you're being facetious.

You know the whole story on how MS ended up with the bigger chip but I'll go ahead and repeat it for you.

MS knew from the outset that XB1 needed to have 8 Gigs of Ram to do the Kinect and TV stuff. During the design stages of XB1 and PS4 the only way to get 8Gigs of Ram into a console size APU was to use DDR3 Ram which only had 65 GBPS bandwidth. So MS planned on using DDR3 with ES-Ram to compensate for the lack of bandwidth on the DDR3. This meant that ES-Ram was taking up a huge chunk of Die space on the APU for the XB1 and due to that fact had less CU's than PS4.

Sony on the other hand was planning to only put 4 Gigs of GDDR5 Ram in PS4. GDDR5 has superior bandwidth to DDR3 so it is much better for video Ram but during the planning stages you could only get 4 Gigs of GDDR5 into a console size APU. This where all the XB1 is more powerful than PS4 rumors came from, the fact XB1 was getting 8 Gigs and PS4 was getting 4 Gigs of Ram. Last minute due to a die shrink, GDDR5's process node was made small enough that you could actually get 8 full Gigs of GDDR5 on to a console size APU. Sony took a gamble and it paid off. They essentially got lucky that a die shrink allowed PS4 to get 8 Gigs of Ram.

This is moronic at best.

We have 2 consoles with exatly the same time frame of release 1 get DDR3 memory,the other get GDDR5 both get 8GB,both get the same Soc,at the time of the PS4 releasing AMD simply didn't have a more powerful suck than the PS4 one.

I don't know if they could have put 7950 which was actually the fallowing line of GPU after the one of the PS4 which was a 7870.

In fact the bill of materials of the xbox one and PS4 is very close taking Kinect out of the equation,but still the PS4 was cheaper to make than the xbox one.

So not only was the PS4 cheaper to make it was 50% more powerful.

Embeded memory on the GPU was already old,is not something MS try with the xbox one,in fact the xbox 360 was the same it had 10MB of EDRAM as well,so the design of the xbox one was in part motivated by the xbox 360,which in part was motivated by the PS2 which also used embeded memory.

Fact is even without Kinect the PS4 was cheaper to make and more powerful,maybe it has to do with sony been a hardware company at heart vs MS which is a software company at heart.

@sealionact said:

@tormentos: The announcement timeframe has got nothing to with it. The pro was already released when ms teased scorpio, and thus ms could justify saying that x1x was the most powerful console.

Ps5 has only been teased, so has x2....so why do you think either Sony or Ms can claim being more powerful, if both dont have any idea how powerful the other console is?

Re read you own damn post.

@sealionact said:

What a silly comparison between the x1x launch, and the x2. Psfaux pro was already out, and ms was launching the x1x - not announcing it, as they did the x2 at e3.

Once both new consoles have launched, one company will call their console the most powerful..

This ^^ is Factually wrong.

In 2016 MS wasn't launching the xbox one X it was announcing it,in fact MS confirmed and showed the xbox one X before sony could even officially reveal the Pro,we know the spec from leaks The Pro spec weren't even confirmed by sony but leaks indicated it was 4.2TF which is why MS was so fast to call the xbox one X the most powerful console ever build and use the wording every single time they had a chance.

After months of reports and speculation, Sony has confirmed its plans to launch a more powerful version of the PlayStation 4, codenamed “Neo.” While the news is now out in the open, Sony revealed that the console would not make its public debut at E3 next week.

https://www.digitaltrends.com/gaming/playstation-4-neo-confirmed-e3-2016/

The spec MS knew from sony were leaks not official by sony and it didn't stop them from claming most powerful console ever built.

On June 10 sony say yeah we have a stronger PS4 coming didn't give any specs,the specs were leack by RUMORSSSSS..

1 Day latter MS announce the xbox one X and make the same shitty presentation they did on this E3,a bunch of people hyping the time thing saying fastest frames highest resolutions and TRUE 4k.

This was on 2016 18 months before launch just like Scarlet release 18 month before launch,the only difference is they don't know sony specs or worse they DO which is why they say the most powerfult console we ever built and not the most powerful console ever.

So yeah both of your point are factually wrong,MS didn't wait for sony to confirm the Pro specs and didn't wait for the Pro to release either to call it the most powerful console ever built get your facts right.

That i know off sony didn't call the PS4 the most powerful console until MS reveal theirs,contrary to MS.

But rumors point at the PS4 been stronger,same rumors on 2013 pointing at a stronger PS4,and same rumors confirmed PS4 Pro spec as well as the xbox one X more powerful console just in case you want to downplay rumors.

Avatar image for Random_Matt
#81 Posted by Random_Matt (4320 posts) -
@boxrekt said:
@Random_Matt said:
@tigerbalm said:

Both consoles will range from 10-12 Tflops

Nope, be a cut down 5700 XT.

XT has no hardware ray-tracing so that prediction is out.

@BigBadBully said:

Going to assume Scarlet will release before PS5 hence the wording is changed. So can't really say it's the most powerful when PS5 will follow after. Then looking at Xbox moving into software/services where consoles are just seen as another platform to buy into it's services. Finally, with Scarlet possibly not being the strongest, Xbox is still pretty adamant it will be a strong box.

Now for Sony I think it's a nice win to grab the buzz word most powerful console. That would be huge for them. PlayStation is behind Xbox in services and have yet to see what kind of service Sony can spin up to compete with Gamepass and if Sony will look at acquiring developers.

Overall I think Sony is going to really prosper with the MS Deal for streaming/networking. They'll def have the backbone to pull it off as Xcloud impressions are good and it works. Sony just needs to build up a competitive service like Gamepass, grab up some studios like From Software, Kojima Productions, Platinum and etc.. look at bringing back/building teams like Evolution so you'll have a constant flow of games.

Finally, def. Will be funny to see Sony grab buzz for most powerful console. From the wording of MS during E3, it does sound like PS5 will grab the power back.

No chance, PS5 and the next xbox aren't going to release more than 2 months apart from each other.

And no one cares about all that xcloud crap you're talking about. It's all theory that's unproven demand. Console gamers want consoles and great exclusive games, all that other crap is meaningless if they never buy into the xbox brand to begin with.

Irrelevant, RT was merely part of the custom design. These consoles are still not going to be super duper PC slaying boxes, this was said time and time again.

Both will only really differ on their respective game libraries, and I'll assume streaming tech. Oh, by the way these consoles will use ray tracing by a fall back option known as DXR which is merely a Windows API. Nvidia is the only company which has ray tracing at a true hardware level through tensor and RT cores.

AMD are pros at marketing bullshit, always have been. Certainly remember their Fury benchmarks before release, that was funny.

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#82 Edited by ronvalencia (28236 posts) -

@Random_Matt said:
@boxrekt said:
@Random_Matt said:
@tigerbalm said:

Both consoles will range from 10-12 Tflops

Nope, be a cut down 5700 XT.

XT has no hardware ray-tracing so that prediction is out.

@BigBadBully said:

Going to assume Scarlet will release before PS5 hence the wording is changed. So can't really say it's the most powerful when PS5 will follow after. Then looking at Xbox moving into software/services where consoles are just seen as another platform to buy into it's services. Finally, with Scarlet possibly not being the strongest, Xbox is still pretty adamant it will be a strong box.

Now for Sony I think it's a nice win to grab the buzz word most powerful console. That would be huge for them. PlayStation is behind Xbox in services and have yet to see what kind of service Sony can spin up to compete with Gamepass and if Sony will look at acquiring developers.

Overall I think Sony is going to really prosper with the MS Deal for streaming/networking. They'll def have the backbone to pull it off as Xcloud impressions are good and it works. Sony just needs to build up a competitive service like Gamepass, grab up some studios like From Software, Kojima Productions, Platinum and etc.. look at bringing back/building teams like Evolution so you'll have a constant flow of games.

Finally, def. Will be funny to see Sony grab buzz for most powerful console. From the wording of MS during E3, it does sound like PS5 will grab the power back.

No chance, PS5 and the next xbox aren't going to release more than 2 months apart from each other.

And no one cares about all that xcloud crap you're talking about. It's all theory that's unproven demand. Console gamers want consoles and great exclusive games, all that other crap is meaningless if they never buy into the xbox brand to begin with.

Irrelevant, RT was merely part of the custom design. These consoles are still not going to be super duper PC slaying boxes, this was said time and time again.

Both will only really differ on their respective game libraries, and I'll assume streaming tech. Oh, by the way these consoles will use ray tracing by a fall back option known as DXR which is merely a Windows API. Nvidia is the only company which has ray tracing at a true hardware level through tensor and RT cores.

AMD are pros at marketing bullshit, always have been. Certainly remember their Fury benchmarks before release, that was funny.

DXR is just an API for BVH accelerated ray-tracing structure which is accelerated by RTX or fall back with shaders. RTX uses de-noise on Tensor cores.

PowerVR has BVH accelerated ray-tracing hardware before NVIDIA.

Intel Larrabee has ray-tracing Quake Wars (Quake 3) before NVIDIA. https://software.intel.com/en-us/articles/quake-wars-gets-ray-traced Dated: 2009. Unlike IBM CELL, Intel Larrabee has hardware TMU and ROPS.

DXR shader path is based on async compute which NVIDIA Volta can handle.

Turing has evolved from Volta.

Intel eX GPU supports Hardware Accelerated DXR. https://www.techpowerup.com/255073/intel-xe-gpus-to-support-raytracing-hardware-acceleration

Intel, AMD and NVIDIA are focusing on BVH accelerated ray-tracing structure as per DXR API specs.

Tensor cores are not fix function de-noiser i.e. it's a different shader like hardware i.e. matrix of 4x4x4 FP16 with FP32 result. RDNA can run matrix 4x4x4 with one Wave32 RPM mode on RDNA. CUDA v7 cores can run matrix of 4x4x4 FP16 via it's RPM features. CUDA v7 cores = Volta and Turing CUDA.

Matrix 4x4x4 FP16 is not optimal on GCN wave64 RPM mode i.e. half filled wavefront.

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#83 Edited by tormentos (29239 posts) -

@ronvalencia said:

XBO's transistors was wasted for 32 MB ESRAM to mitigate the slower/cheaper DDR3 and Kinect related $499 retail price target. I countered post in twitter against the person (Andrew Reiner) who claim it.

Do you know for Fact what both SOC will have inside? Do you know for fact the exact same size for both not guess or going by your usual lol worthy metrics.

Since the PS5 was rumor to be more powerful than Scarlet you have done 2 things.

1-Hide of sony not calling their RT solution hardware based,which that means in your fragile little mind that is confirmed that sony doesn't have it when insders say it does have it.

2-Hide on chip size as some kind of metric,trying to imply Scarlet soc can be bigger.

@saltslasher said:

Does anyone even fact check themselves anymore, I mean put some actual effort into your articles so we don't get shit posts like this...Basically what he/you've said means nothing, because they in fact, did not say for certain it would be, and didn't say it is the strongest until they could fully prove it.

In E3 June 2016:Phil said heBELIEVEDit will be the most powerful console ever built when it releases, Sony had not mentioned anything yet, but Phil likely made assumption they doing mid-gen as well. Others in video mentioned its the most powerful console built to date. Because to date, base PS4 was strongest.

In September 2016: PS4 Pro was announced for first time, which was 3 months after Scorpio was first announced. It released that November in 2016.

In E3 2017: They claimed the Xbox One X is the world's most powerful console, which was several months AFTER the PS4 Pro had been released, which means they easily could make such claims

As for saying x4 more powerful than the One X, that is simplest way to explain cause this time, he knows for a fact a PS5 is coming, so he can't make any basic predictions, and since he does know its coming, he knows he's way better off waiting til next E3 or til after PS5 is announced to make any claims.

I personally believe a bunch of Sony fanboys are the ones going around spreading rumors, cause the few I've seen industry who've made comments are known Xbox haters. There will be a war brewing, and if posts like this are the foreshadow to conversations we have, then I'll likely go fishing, buy the Xbox and call it a generation.

There is one problem with all this analogy.

WHY they didn't say we BELIEVE the Scarlet will be Most powerful console ever built?

I let that sit on your for a minute.

All the montage aroud the xbox one X was to show it as the most powerful console.

True 4k vs PS4 4k

Fastest frames - This imply MORE POWERFUL

Highest Resolutions - This imply more powerful

NO compromises - This imply the freaking best of the best,as we know how PC market operate you are not running max settings no compromises on a damn R580 or 1060ti at 4k.

Eveyrthing MS talked about in E3 2016 was to show the most powerful console and they claim they believe they had the most powerful console again why they don't say that this time?

In fact pass E3 we get a different bive from MS.

No in fact 4X more power is just for CPU,when compare to the shitty Jaguar inside the xbox one X that means nothing basically,but we know 4X power will surely make stupid people believe is 4X the xbox one X GPU which is what is mostly use to compare power when jumping generations.

AMD simple doesn't have a 4X stronger GPU than the xbox one X.

Well coming from you NyaDC that means nothing,up until now all rumors have turn out to be true,the PS4 been more powerful,the Pro specs,the xbox one X leak.

You simply can't stand the fact that this is been rumored,by the way there is links on the first page,if you don't mind pushing them.

@ronvalencia said:

It comes down to which company has learnt from NVIDIA's craftsmanship in regards to VRM design.

Both Sony and MS has similar size CU count GPUs with PS4 Pro (40 CU) and X1X (44 CU), but MS was able to beat AMD's RX-580 (185 watts, 6.1 TFLOPS) design which in turn beats PS4 Pro.

Surface Team's existence is important since this group has experience with NVIDIA mobile GPU hardware with access to NVIDIA's reference designs.

AMD slap on vapor cooling on mid range RX 5700/RX 5700 XT/RX 5700 XT AE instead of inferior heat-pipe design.

The RX-580 beat the crap of the xbox one X in several games.

MS wasn't able of anything it simply waited 1 damn year more to get something stronger,it doesn't freaking get a rocket scientist to do that.

Is as simply as waiting ok last year you have this and now you have this,and wasn't even capable of offering it for the same price as the Pro unlike 2013.

And chip size mean total crap that was proven already Scarlet and PS5 are not Pro and X1 X.

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#84 Edited by ronvalencia (28236 posts) -

@tormentos said:
@ronvalencia said:

XBO's transistors was wasted for 32 MB ESRAM to mitigate the slower/cheaper DDR3 and Kinect related $499 retail price target. I countered post in twitter against the person (Andrew Reiner) who claim it.

Do you know for Fact what both SOC will have inside? Do you know for fact the exact same size for both not guess or going by your usual lol worthy metrics.

Since the PS5 was rumor to be more powerful than Scarlet you have done 2 things.

1-Hide of sony not calling their RT solution hardware based,which that means in your fragile little mind that is confirmed that sony doesn't have it when insders say it does have it.

2-Hide on chip size as some kind of metric,trying to imply Scarlet soc can be bigger.

@ronvalencia said:

It comes down to which company has learnt from NVIDIA's craftsmanship in regards to VRM design.

Both Sony and MS has similar size CU count GPUs with PS4 Pro (40 CU) and X1X (44 CU), but MS was able to beat AMD's RX-580 (185 watts, 6.1 TFLOPS) design which in turn beats PS4 Pro.

Surface Team's existence is important since this group has experience with NVIDIA mobile GPU hardware with access to NVIDIA's reference designs.

AMD slap on vapor cooling on mid range RX 5700/RX 5700 XT/RX 5700 XT AE instead of inferior heat-pipe design.

The RX-580 beat the crap of the xbox one X in several games.

MS wasn't able of anything it simply waited 1 damn year more to get something stronger,it doesn't freaking get a rocket scientist to do that.

Is as simply as waiting ok last year you have this and now you have this,and wasn't even capable of offering it for the same price as the Pro unlike 2013.

And chip size mean total crap that was proven already Scarlet and PS5 are not Pro and X1 X.

1. Show official Sony statement on supporting hardware accelerated ray-tracing.

2. I'm using your own restera links for revealed Project Scarlet APU size.

3. At 4K GPU bound, X1X beats RX 580 on AMD optimized games like Far Cry 5, Forza Motorsport 7 (wet tracks) and Gears of War 4 (Microsoft's custom UE4) with less power consumption.

X1X wouldn't beat RX 580 on CPU bound which is not an issue the next Zen v2.

Again, Microsoft's smart VRM design has beaten AMD's RX 580 (185 watts, 6 TFLOPS) with lower power consumption Scorpio GPU with 6 TFLOPS.

Brain dead Sony copied AMD's brain dead VRM design, hence PS4 Pro's GPU was inferior to RX-480's basic physical parameters.

With PS4 Pro's 4.2 TFLOPS GPU, Sony's electronic design teams wasn't able close the gap with AMD's RX-480 5.8 TFLOPS at 150 watts!

NAVI ROPS has multi-level cache design, hence MS and Sony benefits from NAVI's improvements.

Try again.

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#85 Posted by EG101 (2014 posts) -

@boxrekt said:
@EG101 said:

No one knows except AMD.

I'm going to choose my next gen console going by these specs so if MS wants my next gen money they better deliver a significantly superior console. I don't care if it costs more than PS5 just as long as the better specs justify the increase in cost.

Now if PS5 is more powerful then I'll simply go with that.

You should 100% go with MS's next gen console even if it's weaker. thums up.

I'm going to do what I want with my money. If you want to be a corporate slave you go ahead and do you...

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#86 Posted by BoxRekt (2024 posts) -

@EG101: Xbox FTW!

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#87 Posted by tormentos (29239 posts) -

@ronvalencia said:

1. Show official Sony statement on supporting hardware accelerated ray-tracing.

2. I'm using your own restera links for revealed Project Scarlet APU size.

3. At 4K GPU bound, X1X beats RX 580 on AMD optimized games like Far Cry 5, Forza Motorsport 7 (wet tracks) and Gears of War 4 (Microsoft's custom UE4) with less power consumption.

X1X wouldn't beat RX 580 on CPU bound which is not an issue the next Zen v2.

Again, Microsoft's smart VRM design has beaten AMD's RX 580 (185 watts, 6 TFLOPS) with lower power consumption Scorpio GPU with 6 TFLOPS.

Brain dead Sony copied AMD's brain dead VRM design, hence PS4 Pro's GPU was inferior to RX-480's basic physical parameters.

With PS4 Pro's 4.2 TFLOPS GPU, Sony's electronic design teams wasn't able close the gap with AMD's RX-480 5.8 TFLOPS at 150 watts!

NAVI ROPS has multi-level cache design, hence MS and Sony benefits from NAVI's improvements.

Try again.

1.Show sony officially stating they have software RT.

2-Apu size means little and you have been using apu size for years,so don't hide on resetera.

3-The RX580 beat the xbox one X in several games period while having only 256GB bandwidth and 36CU.

The PS4 Pro was inferior because it had a release date 1 year before scorpio ass,nothing more nothing less,and in fact the Pro even that it was release in 2016 has more Vega features than the xbox one had,what killed the Pro is slower CU and lower bandwidth.

Brain dead no brain dead MS who make a console $100 more expensive while been 45% weaker,and lets not mention the xbox 360 catastrophy.

Once again i tell you i don't have to try again when you freaking fail to beat my points.

Avatar image for clone01
#88 Edited by clone01 (27547 posts) -

Who fucking cares?

Avatar image for tormentos
#89 Posted by tormentos (29239 posts) -

@clone01 said:

Who fucking cares?

Power is serious business here, system wars supremacy crown can affect the balance of the universe,if it falls in the wrong hands.

Avatar image for ronvalencia
#90 Edited by ronvalencia (28236 posts) -

@tormentos said:
@ronvalencia said:

1. Show official Sony statement on supporting hardware accelerated ray-tracing.

2. I'm using your own restera links for revealed Project Scarlet APU size.

3. At 4K GPU bound, X1X beats RX 580 on AMD optimized games like Far Cry 5, Forza Motorsport 7 (wet tracks) and Gears of War 4 (Microsoft's custom UE4) with less power consumption.

X1X wouldn't beat RX 580 on CPU bound which is not an issue the next Zen v2.

Again, Microsoft's smart VRM design has beaten AMD's RX 580 (185 watts, 6 TFLOPS) with lower power consumption Scorpio GPU with 6 TFLOPS.

Brain dead Sony copied AMD's brain dead VRM design, hence PS4 Pro's GPU was inferior to RX-480's basic physical parameters.

With PS4 Pro's 4.2 TFLOPS GPU, Sony's electronic design teams wasn't able close the gap with AMD's RX-480 5.8 TFLOPS at 150 watts!

NAVI ROPS has multi-level cache design, hence MS and Sony benefits from NAVI's improvements.

Try again.

1.Show sony officially stating they have software RT.

2-Apu size means little and you have been using apu size for years,so don't hide on resetera.

3-The RX580 beat the xbox one X in several games period while having only 256GB bandwidth and 36CU.

The PS4 Pro was inferior because it had a release date 1 year before scorpio ass,nothing more nothing less,and in fact the Pro even that it was release in 2016 has more Vega features than the xbox one had,what killed the Pro is slower CU and lower bandwidth.

Brain dead no brain dead MS who make a console $100 more expensive while been 45% weaker,and lets not mention the xbox 360 catastrophy.

Once again i tell you i don't have to try again when you freaking fail to beat my points.

1. Current facts, MS confirms hardware accelerated ray-tracing. Sony has NOT official confirm hardware accelerated ray-tracing.

2. When Kinect was removed, X1X's 359 mm2 size APU beaten PS4 Pro's 321 mm2 size APU.

3. Both Sony and MS paid for larger GPUs when compared to AMD's RX-480's 36 CU i.e.

MS's X1X: 44 CU scaled imprint GPU, MS's custom smart VRM design and X1X GPU has beaten AMD's own RX-580 in lower power consumption while delivering 6 TFLOPS FP32 number at base clock.

Sony's PS4 Pro: 40 CU scaled imprint GPU, Sony brain dead copied AMD's VRM design, hence Sony's 16 nm GPU is substantially inferior in physical parameters when compared RX-480 i.e. PS4 Pro's GPU is clocked at 911 Mhz with 4.2 TFLOPS FP32 at base clock while RX-480 has 5.8 TFLOPS at boost mode.

Both consoles has no PC RX GPU boost modes.

Only MS configured a 16 nm GPU that rivals PC desktop's RX-580 in basic 6 TFLOPS FP32 number at boost mode against X1X GPU's base clock 6 TFLOPS with lower power consumption!

Sony's 16 nm GPU 4.2 TFLOPS was configured inferior to PC's desktop RX-480's 5.8 TFLOPS.

X1X has beaten RX-580 at 4K resolution gaming with well known AMD bias optimized games e.g. Far Cry 5, Gears of War 4, Forza Motorsport 7 (high alpha effects wet tracks).

Try again.

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#91 Edited by tormentos (29239 posts) -

@ronvalencia said:

1. Current facts, MS confirms hardware accelerated ray-tracing. Sony has NOT official confirm hardware accelerated ray-tracing.

2. When Kinect was removed, X1X's 359 mm2 size APU beaten PS4 Pro's 321 mm2 size APU.

3. Both Sony and MS paid for larger GPUs when compared to AMD's RX-480's 36 CU i.e.

MS's X1X: 44 CU scaled imprint GPU, MS's custom smart VRM design and X1X GPU has beaten AMD's own RX-580 in lower power consumption while delivering 6 TFLOPS FP32 number at base clock.

Sony's PS4 Pro: 40 CU scaled imprint GPU, Sony brain dead copied AMD's VRM design, hence Sony's 16 nm GPU is substantially inferior in physical parameters when compared RX-480 i.e. PS4 Pro's GPU is clocked at 911 Mhz with 4.2 TFLOPS FP32 at base clock while RX-480 has 5.8 TFLOPS at boost mode.

Both consoles has no PC RX GPU boost modes.

Only MS configured a 16 nm GPU that rivals PC desktop's RX-580 in basic 6 TFLOPS FP32 number at boost mode against X1X GPU's base clock 6 TFLOPS with lower power consumption!

Sony's 16 nm GPU 4.2 TFLOPS was configured inferior to PC's desktop RX-480's 5.8 TFLOPS.

X1X has beaten RX-580 at 4K resolution gaming with well known AMD bias optimized games e.g. Far Cry 5, Gears of War 4, Forza Motorsport 7 (high alpha effects wet tracks).

Try again.

1-Maybe you are too stupit to comprehend it or too hard headed.

Sony claimed the PS5 will do RT they did not say Hardware based or not,but not saying hardware based doesn't mean it is automatically software based,that is what you are assuming.

2-When Kinect was removed the xbox onde X came 1 damn year latter and $100 more expensive,if you can't comprehend that MS was unable to beat sony power wise on the spot and was forse to wait 1 year over the Pro to beat it then is your fault not mine,but trying to use the XBO X as some kind of victory is pathetic,specially after been 1 year late.

3-The PS4 SOC is greatly underclocked vs the RX580 which has the same ammount of CU but much higher clock speed.

Sony wasn't brain dead don't be a moron,the xbox one X would not have the SOC it has now if it would come in 2016 period because AMD didn't have it ready.

Fact is the PS4 was $100 less and 45% more powerful on 2013,the xbox one X was 1 year late and $100 more is not even comparable at all,is not revolution it was simple evolution.

Thats like saying MS achieve rival desktop 7770 in basic Tflops, by just using more CU to do the job,wow incredible isn't.

MS used more computer units at lower clock speed.

The RX580 beat the xbox one X in several games with just 256GB/s bandwidth and 4 less CU lol what a disaster.

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#92 Posted by ronvalencia (28236 posts) -

@tormentos said:
@ronvalencia said:

1. Current facts, MS confirms hardware accelerated ray-tracing. Sony has NOT official confirm hardware accelerated ray-tracing.

2. When Kinect was removed, X1X's 359 mm2 size APU beaten PS4 Pro's 321 mm2 size APU.

3. Both Sony and MS paid for larger GPUs when compared to AMD's RX-480's 36 CU i.e.

MS's X1X: 44 CU scaled imprint GPU, MS's custom smart VRM design and X1X GPU has beaten AMD's own RX-580 in lower power consumption while delivering 6 TFLOPS FP32 number at base clock.

Sony's PS4 Pro: 40 CU scaled imprint GPU, Sony brain dead copied AMD's VRM design, hence Sony's 16 nm GPU is substantially inferior in physical parameters when compared RX-480 i.e. PS4 Pro's GPU is clocked at 911 Mhz with 4.2 TFLOPS FP32 at base clock while RX-480 has 5.8 TFLOPS at boost mode.

Both consoles has no PC RX GPU boost modes.

Only MS configured a 16 nm GPU that rivals PC desktop's RX-580 in basic 6 TFLOPS FP32 number at boost mode against X1X GPU's base clock 6 TFLOPS with lower power consumption!

Sony's 16 nm GPU 4.2 TFLOPS was configured inferior to PC's desktop RX-480's 5.8 TFLOPS.

X1X has beaten RX-580 at 4K resolution gaming with well known AMD bias optimized games e.g. Far Cry 5, Gears of War 4, Forza Motorsport 7 (high alpha effects wet tracks).

Try again.

1-Maybe you are too stupit to comprehend it or too hard headed.

Sony claimed the PS5 will do RT they did not say Hardware based or not,but not saying hardware based doesn't mean it is automatically software based,that is what you are assuming.

2-When Kinect was removed the xbox onde X came 1 damn year latter and $100 more expensive,if you can't comprehend that MS was unable to beat sony power wise on the spot and was forse to wait 1 year over the Pro to beat it then is your fault not mine,but trying to use the XBO X as some kind of victory is pathetic,specially after been 1 year late.

3-The PS4 SOC is greatly underclocked vs the RX580 which has the same ammount of CU but much higher clock speed.

Sony wasn't brain dead don't be a moron,the xbox one X would not have the SOC it has now if it would come in 2016 period because AMD didn't have it ready.

Fact is the PS4 was $100 less and 45% more powerful on 2013,the xbox one X was 1 year late and $100 more is not even comparable at all,is not revolution it was simple evolution.

Thats like saying MS achieve rival desktop 7770 in basic Tflops, by just using more CU to do the job,wow incredible isn't.

MS used more computer units at lower clock speed.

The RX580 beat the xbox one X in several games with just 256GB/s bandwidth and 4 less CU lol what a disaster.

1. Current non-RTX GPU already supports ray-tracing.

Current facts, MS confirms hardware accelerated ray-tracing. Sony has NOT official confirm hardware accelerated ray-tracing.

2. Red herring. Facts, MS's configured their 16 nm GPU to rivals PC's RX-580 6 TFLOPS parameter with lower power consumption via custom "smart" VRM design (non-AMD VRM design).

3. Sony wasn't able to rival PC's RX-480's 5.8 TFLOPS with a different VRM and power curve configuration design. PS4 Pro's GPU follows typical AMD GPU power curve design.

Your price argument is a red herring to silicon's physical parameter arguments.

Again, X1X has beaten RX-580 at 4K resolution gamingwith well known AMD bias optimized games e.g. Far Cry 5, Gears of War 4, Forza Motorsport 7 (high alpha effects wet tracks).

Try again.

Avatar image for tormentos
#93 Posted by tormentos (29239 posts) -

@ronvalencia said:

1. Current non-RTX GPU already supports ray-tracing.

Current facts, MS confirms hardware accelerated ray-tracing. Sony has NOT official confirm hardware accelerated ray-tracing.

2. Red herring. Facts, MS's configured their 16 nm GPU to rivals PC's RX-580 6 TFLOPS parameter with lower power consumption via custom "smart" VRM design (non-AMD VRM design).

3. Sony wasn't able to rival PC's RX-480's 5.8 TFLOPS with a different VRM and power curve configuration design. PS4 Pro's GPU follows typical AMD GPU power curve design.

Your price argument is a red herring to silicon's physical parameter arguments.

Again, X1X has beaten RX-580 at 4K resolution gamingwith well known AMD bias optimized games e.g. Far Cry 5, Gears of War 4, Forza Motorsport 7 (high alpha effects wet tracks).

Try again.

1-Yes like the PS4 on killzone,yet sony didn't claim the PS4 was capable of ray tracing,again the problem here is YOU,who claim sony need to state it as if not saying HB actually mean software based mandatory and not be just a simple ommition.

2-Which mean total crap the RX580 has higher power consumption because it is on PC that is not limited by console fun factor,which is why MS could go with the RX580 with 6TF and whent with something abode and 40CU,the only reason they have lower TDP is because they chose more CU slower which draws less power.

3-That is because the pro has slower speed in its 36 CU,because of power comsumption and heating issues that could arise.

Is not red hearing because MS simplyn chosed a damn GPU more expensive and waited 1 year MORE period,sony beat MS the same year on the spot period and $100 less.

The RX580 beat the xbox one in several games period the rest is history and damage control on your part.

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#94 Edited by ronvalencia (28236 posts) -

@tormentos:

RX 580 has 1257 Mhz base clock (5.8 TFLOPS) with 1340 Mhz boost clock (6.1 TFLOPS, ~185 watts). X1X GPU has 1172 Mhz base clock without boost mode, hence X1X GPU has 93 percent of RX-580's base clock speed. Microsoft added extra 2MB render cache, 4 additional CUs and auto-under-volting smart VRM to deliver 6 TFLOPS FP32 GPU at lower power when compared to AMD's 6 TFLOPS RX 580 with 185 watts.

MS's X1X vs RX-580 basic parameters

  • X1X GPU is 93 percent from RX-580's base clock speed.
  • X1X GPU is 85 percent from RX-580's boost clock speed.
  • X1X GPU has 6 TFLOPS FP32 with lower power consumption when compared to RX-580's 6 TFLOPS 185 watts.
  • X1X GPU has 12 GDDR5-6800 chips to be powered vs RX-580's eight GDDR5-8000 chips. X1X has the superiority at 4K over RX-580.
  • The entire X1X box has about 185 watts.

Sony's PS4 Pro vs RX-480 basic parameters

  • PS4Pro GPU is 81 percent from RX-480's base clock speed at 1120 Mhz
  • PS4Pro GPU is 72 percent from RX-480's boost clock speed at 1266 MHz
  • PS4Pro GPU has 4.2 TFLOPS FP32 with lower power consumption when compared to RX-480's 5.8 TFLOPS with ~150 watts.

MS beaten Sony on rivaling the basic TFLOPS power from PC desktop's RX-580 with X1X GPU consuming less power when compared to AMD's RX-580 6 TFLOPS 185 watts configuration.

Facts for during 16 nm era AMD GPUs: MS has shown to have superior electrical engineering skills (smart VRM design) over AMD's and Sony's electrical engineering skills.

Vega II's dumb VRM design shows AMD's lazy VRM craftsmanship as shown from this example https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/ao43xl/radeon_vii_insanely_overvolted_undervolting/ If Vega II has X1X's smart VRM design, this end user beta testing problem would be less.

During Xbox 360's design, Surface Team did NOT exist, hence your Xbox 360 argument is a red herring.

Your argument on forcing Phil to claim the most powerful console argument is flawed.

Loading Video...

Phil's response against your "MS need to confirm they have the most powerful console" argument shows Microsoft monitors gaming forums.

Your "MS need to confirm they have the most powerful console" argument is flawed since MS doesn't know about Sony's PS5 while MS can control statements about it's console specifications, hence hardware accelerated ray-tracing official claim.

Sony can control statements about it's console specifications which hasn't officially confirmed hardware accelerated ray-tracing.

Having smart VRM design is a matter better being lower than PC's RX-5700 XT AE or rivaling it.

Try again.