Will Microsoft outlast Sony?

Well, when it comes to gaming, there's really not a whole lot to talk about with Microsoft. Kinda why I don't buy into this Company Wars distraction. Sony was doomed with the PS3 and Sony is doomed with the PS4. Sony will be doomed with the PS5 and the PS6 too.

Actually I've never looked at VGChartz. I'm going by the last posted console sales per the 360 and PS3 and they were both at 80+ million. So roughly the same though the 360 had a year head start.

Id be shocked if Sony lasts another year. Everyone is already leaving the company and they have almost no more buildings left.

Here's a new one, and it's the only building you and your filthy Lem friends need to be concerned with.

As someone who owns a PS4 and loves it. It's alarming that because we have been hearing about Sony's struggles since the PS2 days that somehow that discredits the fact that they are being predicted to face bankruptcy within 2 years, are selling of HQ's and are spinning off the Bravia division and getting rid of the Vaio division. Just because we have heard it all before doesn't mean that it's not going to be true this time.

Getting rid of unprofitable divisions is actually healthy for a business....

And while that's fantastic that they are doing it - It's also a last ditch attempt before bankruptcy.

You can rest assured, even if Playstation had to become its own brand, it would continue to thrive and prosper. It's a golden egg laying goose. Even Kuturagi got the almighty boot for jeopardizing it.

@Shewgenja: and I really hope that happens. I have grown up with Playstation and love it. I think they make the best exclusives on the planet and would be really sad if something happened to PS. But it's no secret that Sony is struggling. I hope they turn it around, they are a better company than Microsoft and I hope they last far longer.

You can always tell when the Lems are feeling the pain. They drum up Company Wars threads (not necessarily the OP of this thread, but the countless others).

The Lems are like System Warriors in the trenches who have run out of grenades so they scrape together mud balls and hurl them hoping for the off chance that people get spooked.

**** that. The Playstation business hasn't deteriorated with the launch of PS4, it has been strengthened. There is, in fact, a Playstation Headquarters now.

Yes.

In 10 years I don't think Sony will be a company anymore. Playstation will probably have split into its own company, same with Sony's other few actual profitable divisions. Sony as a company is basically dying. Playstation will be bought by somebody with money. It's actually got a future unlike the rest of the company.

I don't want to see Sony die because I like a lot of their products, but if they keep posting huge losses then they'll have to sell off the capital and shut down eventually.That's business.

The question is who will buy them? I also don't believe the Xbox division is going to stay with Microsoft. Microsoft is going to start consolidating back to pure software and dump all of their hardware divisions as they all keep losing Microsoft a lot of money. The Xbox brand is strong enough to survive on its own, but attached to Microsoft it cant' really thrive.

Sony is a shell of its former selves. I give them 2 more years before bankruptcy.

At this rate, it doesn't matter how profitable MS as a whole is. Xbox division WILL be canned.

Businesses are here to make money, not to subsidize a failing division through the profitability of other division. You can think of each division as a separate company.

The Japanese government wouldnt let a western entity (MS) buy more than a 50% share of a japanese company (Sony), so that wouldnt happen.

I don't think anyone should even buy any Sony stock. Everything that surrounds the company is toxic.

Xbox division will be dead or sold long before PlayStation brand is gone. Worst case is scenario is Apple, Samsung, Google etc acquire it. The fact that Microsoft can't put a weak Sony down this generation should you tell how incompetent the Xbox division is...

Microsoft vs Sony overall is a joke at this point.

Microsoft's overall status as a corporation has never done much for the gaming division as evidenced by repeatedly losing to Nintendo and Sony who combined are worth a fraction of MS.

It's a toss up for either company.

Sony can't sustain their business on just Playstation, but lots of their other ventures are failing badly which they have to deal with.

Microsoft lost focus under Balmer. They need to keep Windows great, and one way would be to actually keep PC gaming a Windows thing. As far as their electronics division is concerned, they just need to be more innovative. It's hurt them to be YEARS behind companies like Apple in the smartphone/tablet market. Windows Phone and Surface are pretty awesome, but they're going up against insanely well-established brands.

In terms of financials absolutely yes because sony is slowly moving towards bankruptcy even though they have tried to rectify some of the problems that have been affecting them in the last half-decade or so.In terms of gaming I really don't know yet.

money can't make everything a succes look at Bing, Zune, Vista, Clippy etc and ofcourse

XBone

if sony goes playstation only and assurance they would be in the plus sony has more divisions means they have to invest more for their products

No, it's the PS4 that is making more money. The only country where X1 is making more revenue is the US, but when it comes to actual profits, the profit margins for both are similar, and since the PS4 is selling more units in the US, that would mean the PS4 is making more profit even in the US.

It seems to me we have a unique situation.

Microsoft won't go under but since this is system wars its video games, So within Microsoft there is a subtle and defeated push for cutting the xbox line and recouping the losses but this has been defeated continually since for the last long while the line has been generating profit and given enough time they will wipe out the debt, but there is still that push.

Where as its different for Sony the PlayStation line is literally the one of the only shining spots in the company its the one of the only things keeping it afloat besides insurance sales and real estate *lol* so that's the difference Microsoft as a company won't go under and If they get rid of the xbox line it will be sold off....Sony will go out of business completely If the Sony line fails though.

We'll likely see Sony fail before Microsoft because Sony just doesn't get it people are looking for whole home entertainment since they have smartphones now and there is no real reason to have a completely dedicated video game machine.

Market cap

SONY=17.82bn

Microsoft=312.94bn

Enterprise value

SONY=16.43bn

Microsoft=240.29bn

Debt

SONY=17.70bn

Microsoft=16.52bn

Return on assets/Equity

SONY=0.15%/5.14%

Microsoft=13.15%/30.09%

http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/q/ks?s=SNE

Microsoft is worth more than 12x what SONY is worth yet has less total debt and a much higher return on it's assets and equity, i would sy that it is safe to say that as far as money is concerned MS has far mo0re staying power.

According to the last official figures the Xbox 360 hit 80 million 2-3 weeks earlier than the Ps3 hit 80 million

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/434439/worldwide-xbox-360-sales-top-80-million-microsoft-claims/

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-11-06-playstation-3-sales-hit-80-million

Does a hobby horse have a wooden dick?

Errr, NO actually, there profit margins are not similar at all

Profit margins

SONY=0.94%

MS=28.17%

http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/q/ks?s=SNE

http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/q/ks?s=MSFT

Original xbox outsold the gamecube dude

Yep. Microsoft will outlast Sony. No doubt. Microsofts XB1 isn't selling as well as the PS4 . That is the honest truth, no one can dispute that. But Microsoft as a company is more financially secure...by a long shot. Sony is relying on their gaming division to generate revenue. Microsoft is not. Sony put everything they had into their latest console because they had to, not because they care about gamers. Microsoft produced a less appealing product but it doesn't matter. They have the money and the experience to turn a turd into a gold brick and not even bat an eyelid.

@strothers101: like zune, windows vista, clippy

yess

@cyclops10: I think Microsoft might be willing to eat their losses for one more gen in hoping that Sony backs out after this gen and than Microsoft becomes the monopoly of consoles.

That hasn't affected profits and what's more important, being second place all gen while making profits and then losing to a few sales at the end or coming in at the end and going into second place while making no profits for most of the gen.

Yeah and the PS3 sold more world wide than the xbox 360...

So yeah how much do you think the xbox 360 could have sold world wide in hose 3 weeks.? Because even NPD numbers were low.

They are tied period and sony doesn't care nor will make a parade to show they pass MS,hell they won this month NPD and they didn't make a parade,meanwhile MS was damage controlling and telling people lies about how the xbox one was breaking records..lol

Yeah the xbox 360 records which were sh** to begin with since on its first February the xbox 360 had a damn shortage do to yield issues.

Fact of the matter is they are tied on a race that use to be won by more than 100 millions last time,winning by 300K is a joke even if they are ahead you look desperate trying to hold to such a pathetic victory.

The xbox one is trailing the PS4 by like 2+ million units and i hear you say nothing.

Many companies have file chapter 11 and have bounce back Kmart was one of them,file chapter 11 and bounce back and bough sears,some times you need to move things around to see what make you money and what not.

I can't speak for the Japanese version....but actually in the US it would be Chapter 11 which allows them to restructure and gives them breathing room to fix the problems. Anyway.....I doubt Sony is the only corporation with this problem. Look at what happened a few years ago with quite a few car manufacturers. Many times the divesting has a positive effect on the company. I really don't think SW predictions are worth shit. Really do you? Obviously Sony has continued with R & D for a couple generations now....and that is a cost that never pays off in the short term.

This is why XBox won't come first place. Their fanbase is preoccupied with the company and rampant cronyism. Gamers don't care about that shit. It's precisely because Microsoft treats console gaming like a bunch of suits that they make the mistakes they do like losing focus halfway through a generation to go chasing after what they perceive is a larger market (AKA, Kinect). They thought they had eaten Sony's pie long enough and go after Nintendo instead.

It's the first console maker to put games and gamERs second to actual console sales. On forum boards such as this one, you have morons actually cheering these decisions rather than asking how it affects them as gamers. All the while, spewing quarterly earnings and Live fee revenue numbers as if it has had any bearing on their gaming experience.

It's these Corporate Wars threads that expose the Achilles Heel of the XBox itself. No rational gamer is going to give two flying fucks what MS as a company does if it doesn't translate into getting more and better games. 2012 and 2013 were utterly abysmal for the XBox when you consider that Halo and Gears were made by B-Team developers despite being the biggest franchises for 360 owners short of Call of Duty. You think Sony is in trouble? You think Playstation is in trouble? We have a company that barely eeks out its spot in the console wars and acts like it has to be bigger than gaming itself. What the actual **** is that all about? Enjoy your TV remote and ~720p games. You know, going back to what actual gamers give a shit about.

Oh, well my bad then! Let me hire a marching band to play at the victory parade for Microsofts ability to have resounding ~1-2 million console "victories". NBC will be covering it and everything!

i am posting facts with evidence to back them up, you are posting supposition without any evidence to back up your claims.

Secondly, why would i say anything about the Ps4 leading the Xbone by 2 million when i am replying to a comment talking specifically about the 360?

If i actually saw ANY lem saying that the Xbone was ahead of the Ps4 then i would correct them, much as i am correcting you now but so far i have not seen lemmings posting anything of the sort so therefore i have no need to correct them.

'They are tied period' Where is your evidence of this because , quite frankly, 'it is because i say so' just isn't going to cut the mustard with anyone dude, least of all me.

Bottom line, i am posting evidence to back up my claims so as the saying goes 'put up or shut up'

Ok lets have it your way...

The PS4 is beating the xbox one by double numbers..

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/xbox-one-sold-3-million-units-in-2013-microsoft-says/1100-6416955/

The xbox one has 3 millions no other official number is known.

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/playstation-4-crosses-6-million-sales-following-strong-japan-launch/1100-6418086/

The PS4 is OFFICIALLY at 6 millions,now prove me wrong...

Are you an idiot? i was talking about the 360 vs the Ps3 dude.

I effin know the Ps4 is outselling the Xbone by a huge margin.

Did you even read what i wrote you plum?

'If i actually saw ANY lem saying that the Xbone was ahead of the Ps4 then i would correct them, much as i am correcting you now but so far i have not seen lemmings posting anything of the sort so therefore i have no need to correct them.'

READING COMPREHENSION FTW,lol

But i am using your arguments against you,since you only go by old official numbers i am doing the same to you..

I know what you wrote i just used your own argument against you,just because the last official numbers were 3 million it doesn't mean the xbox one stopped selling,funny enough that also apply to the PS3 and xbox 360,and we know for fact that sony sell more units world wide because the PS3 sell better in Japan and EU,so trying to imply that they are now some how tied because of last known official numbers is a joke.

Doesn't take an armchair degree to read the writing on the wall.

Microsoft Net Worth: $69.96 billion | Microsoft net profit last year: $21.86 billion

Sony Net Worth: $18.6 billion (lol) | Sony net profit last year: $1.1 billion (lol)

For fun -- Apple Net Worth: $185 BILLION | Apple net profit last year: $37.04 BILLION (absolutely stompingSony (as is MS) and still outperforming MS year after year)

I don't have the capacity to foretell the future of billion dollar companies, but PlayStation, by far, will outlast the Xbox / Nintendo.

Its most omnipotent brand in gaming right now.

Edited for better wording. Phone issues*

What evidence can you cite to support that? Is it simply based on PS4 sales?

What other information cancels sales as being a legit factor in the power of the PlayStation brand?

Edited*

Let's then use Vita sales. Sony isn't a very powerful brand at all, is it?

In all honesty, they do have brand rankings on Forbes, and in the top 10 we see Apple at 1 (no surprises there), Microsoft at 2, and Sony at....... 80.

Regardless of how powerful you perceive Sony's brand to be in any realm, without a strong financial base, it's all meaningless. Sony has already said goodbye to Vaio, and it's likely that TV's are next on the list. I wouldn't be surprised to see them exit the mobile market entirely in the future, as well. They're throwing things overboard because Sony can't operate under the weight of those financial burdens.

It's a very precarious time for the company. That's the writing on the wall, easily supported from a position of strength with statistical evidence.

No, you are just damage controlling the fact that you messed up, Ps4 and xbone sales have nothing to do with Ps3 vs 360 sales.

I fail to see how posting Ps4 vs Xbone sales figures in any way invalidates my original argument, i asked you to provide evidence that the 360 and the Ps3 are tied, please explain how what you posted is evidence of what i asked?

Also explain how what you psoted somehow proves you right?

One SONY console outselling an MS console is not evidence that another SONY console is outselling an MS on

The Ps4 is outselling the Xbone therefore the Ps3 MUST be outselling the 360 doesn't really compute mate.

i Fail to see how you are using my own argument against me when we are both in agreement that the Ps4 is outselling the Xbone by quite a margin

Also, it was you who said they where tied, not me, i was quoting YOU.

Too many have fed & feed the M$ greed.