Will Japan ever regain its prominence in the Gaming Industry

Japan video game industry once made up 50% of the global gaming market but now there only 10% of that today or even less. JRPG that was very popular nearly a decade ago when tons of them were being released in the market has shrink with the FF being the only franchise that is truly popular in mainstream gaming while the rest tend to be more niche and less mainstream.

Many critics have blame the lack of progression and innovation in Japanese games as one of the causes. Perhaps Japanese developers did not transition well compared to their western counterpart when it came to the evolution of games from past to present. I see no sign they will make much of a comeback as western made games are still the most grossing in sales and popularity.

I know some of people might bring up the likes of dark souls or maybe even dragon dogma but you know they seem a lot more western than your typical JRPG despite not being a WRPG.

hopefully not

Uh... how does that change the fact that both of those games were made in Japan? Both games show that there are some Japanese developers who want to see innovation and progress in gaming, which at least shows that there's potential for Japan to regain much of their lost glory. The matter of both games being influenced by WRPGs is irrelevant to the topic you bring up. And honestly, I don't know. They still have a very strong presence in gaming. RPGs aren't the only types of games that the Japanese make.

They're very clearly Japanese in terms of design. Just because you don't know what they're drawing their inspiration from (hint: it's not WRPGs) doesn't mean they aren't drawing from those things.

@GamerForca:

A game like dark souls which is still quite niche that pop up once in while by Japanese developers are very few certainly not enough to boost the Japanese industry. You don't really see such a phenomenon like that in many Japanese games. The only other few franchises by Japanese developers that I think that even stand a chance against other popular mainstream western games is MGS or maybe even FF. Japanese developers as a whole have not taken enough leaps to even regain what they lost years ago.

A least they can always turn to handhelds since they are so popular in Japan.

They're popular. Not like Call of Duty, but still popular. Dark Souls wouldn't even exist if its predecessor had done too poorly. They've certainly gained a lot of respect from western gamers. What you said about them seeming western, and apparently therefore not worth mentioning, is still completely irrelevant. And no, they don't stand up to the most popular western games in sales. That would require them to start pumping out shooters like western developers do, and I hope they don't.

@DarkLink77: I know ID software have been making those types of kind for a while like King's Field which was inspired by a western made rpg like Ultima.

The Japanese game industry is stuck in limbo just like the anime industry. Only those that take inspiration from the West make games that are worth playing but at the end, the risk for them is too big. Their best selling games are old IP's from more than 10 years ago thanks to the popularity they gathered back in the day when they were dominating. But these days people are too hooked on online shooters and racing games to give a **** about the more unique Japanese games.

It does not help that an increasingly number of Japanese developers are moving their work to handhelds or mobile phones. Home console gaming is dying in Japan because of that.

To be honest, in all my time on this forum I have never seen Link make sense out of anything. I think that's why he was the king of SW or something... But he most likely doesn't know what Ultima even is and that's why he writes those stupid comments. XD

This is good link to start knowing about a franchise that inspired what we know these days as the RPG genre (including the JRPG's):http://www.hardcoregaming101.net/ultima/ultima.htm

While it was declining up until a couple of years ago, Japan has since been steadily recovering, while on the other hand, the North American game industry has been steadily declining in terms of revenues according to NPD, though we'll have to wait and see if the new consoles turn that around.

There is plenty of progression and innovation in modern Japanese games, but you're just looking in the wrong place (i.e. consoles). Over the past decade, much of Japan has slowly abandoned the home consoles they were once known for, with handhelds and mobiles now the dominant platforms, followed by arcades, then consoles, and then PC. When it comes to the handheld, mobile and arcade markets, those are where Japan continues to dominate.

And finally, Dark Souls and Dragon's Dogma are only Western in terms of appearance, but in terms of core gameplay, they're definitely Japanese. The combat systems and challenging difficulty, for example, are clearly inspired by Japanese hack & slash games, rather than Western RPG's. In fact, Demon's Souls was initially intended exclusively for the Japanese market, with a Western release not even considered until Atlus USA took a risk in publishing it in North America. As for Dragon's Dogma, that's more popular in Japan than in the West, probably because of similarities to Capcom's own Monster Hunter franchise.

i am pretty much fed up with j-dev but every once in awhile something comes out that interests me.

it's rare, but it happens.

Most good games still only come out of Japan, so if that's not enough then probably not.

They had it coming and deserve all of this. Also, very few System Warriors here seem to realize that adults are stigmatized in Japan for not breaking up with video games. Bottom line is, once they embrace corporate lifestyle, adults in Japan grow out of gaming! That's why the industry nurtures one generation of otakus after the other, still subscribing to the same notions and stereotypes about what Japanese gaming is about. Someone has to still carry the mythological torch. If they changed that, venture somewhere else with games, the Japanese console industry would've snapped its own neck. So, this also explains how games in Japan are the lowest and most juvenile form of art, especially when you compare them with their extremely fertile experimental music scene and arthouse directors, such as Ozu who are legends on a worldwide scale.

http://www.hardcoregaming101.net/kingsfield/kf01.htm

Um, yeah, I know what Ultima is, thanks. Played the shit out of that series, especially Ultima Online.

The Souls games are spiritual successors to King's Field, which are, wait for it, based on Ultima, but developed by From Software, and are very different in terms of gameplay. They were basing it on what they'd already done, not on the Ultima franchise. Was the Ultima franchise an insporation? Hell yes. But King's Field and Shadow Tower (another huge influence) are very, very different games, and you'd be blind to say that they drew more influence from Ultima for the Souls than they did from King's Field. But since you probably don't even know what King's Field is (and I'll wager no one in this thread has played a game in the series), educate yourself. http://www.hardcoregaming101.net/kingsfield/kf01.htm

It was basically a prototype for the Souls games.

And no, id isn't making things like Dark Souls or Dragon's Dogma. id makes shooters. What are you talking about?

If the PS4 does gangbusters and if the mobile games market crashes I think it could do a revival.

I wouldn't put the blame on lack of innovation or progression. When you think about it, Western games didn't have much progression either. All the fps games nowadays are just a graphically enhanced version of Wolfenstein 3D and Doom. Sure, more features were added, but the improvement isn't much more drastic than what can be said about Japanese games.

The problem with Japanese games is that it's being compared side by side with Western games - something that wasn't done previously. In the old days, there were 2 gaming segments - console and PC. Japanese games were on console, and western games were on PC. Both segments did not mix. The production values of western games were almost always higher than that of japanese games. In todays age, that line has been blurred. The infiltration of the western gaming industry into what was once solely dominated by the japanese gaming industry has put a stark contrast between the quality and depth of japanese games and western games. People started comparing the two. And publishers and developers from the western world had bigger budgets and much more money to work with than their japanese counterparts.

So in my opinion, nobody really got better or worse from a creative standpoint. It's just that the financial advantage on one side is clearly apparent. That, and the fact that japanese games are generally more superficial than western games. Compare say....a JRPG to say....Baldur's Gate on the PC. It's clear that WRPGs had more depth and were more complicated. It's like how people compare Skyrim to FF13 and conclude that Skyrim is a better game.

Japan is just an anomaly.

They haven't kept up with where the rest of the world wants gaming to be.

Plus they just make so many odd choices. I'm sure some Japanese developers would be far more prominent in the west if they wouldn't go from making a good exclusive on Wii, to a good exclusive on PSP, and then to making a multiplat for Western audiences on X360 and PS3, and then out of nowhere they make a Japanese exclusive game on the Vita.

Pretty much "How not to build a fanbase".

Lol. When people talk about Japanese games, they only talk about JRPG. Have they forgotten about games such as Ninja Gaiden, Dead Rising 1, Marvel Vs Capcom 3, Metal Gear Solid, Devil May Cry, Catherine, Super Mario 3D World, Bayonetta,Vanquish, Metal Gear Rising: Revengeance? And soon to be The Evil Within?

Mario is the most popular platformer. Japanese fighting games are most played at Evo. Metal Gear Solid destroys Splinter Cell in sales and review. Gran Turismo is the most popular racer out there. Devil May Cry 4 revive the series then it went to shit after it was handed to Ninja Theory(western developer).

You look at the Jrpg sales and like "Oh, Japanese RPG aren't selling much! Japanese game is dying!"

Some internet folks don't even consider Dark Souls/Demons Souls a Japanese game.

1) Always comes to threads like this where people compare Japan to the entirety of the "West", which includes America, Canada, Britain, and West and East Europe. So yeah, the deck is kind of loaded particularly on one side here.

2) To debate from a developer standpoint seems to be the only side that gets mentioned. One side that rarely seems to be mentioned is the fact that 2/3 of the home console makers are Japanese companies (Sony/Nintendo), and the only ones in the handheld market (Sony/Nintendo).

3)

and 4)

What you're saying with the lack of progression and evolution on the part of Japanese developers with regards to JRPG's (the only genre that you seem to think they can do) is currently what Western developers are currently facing with the FPS genre. The FPS genre is the mainstream genre, and a lot of money is to be made from it. Money is money, whether it is casual or hardcore money, developers are trying harder and harder to hit that more "mainstream" money flow. For instance, we look at COD, which continually rakes in the big bucks, and Activision is aiming for the lowest common denominator here, all the while succeeding at it.

They need to catch up on trends, game making techniques and generally just get more organised.

But none of that is going to happen until Japanese companies start behaving like meritocracies instead of simply awarding seniority. They also need to screen and hire for experienced candidates instead of just making do with whatever skills their yearly intake of graduates have. That is a massive change in Japanese corporate culture and it's not going to happen overnight.

Hmm.

I will not say that they would get the same prominence that they once had.

But I can see how they can be really big Again, if some of the old boys over there made room for younger people with new ideas.

I think that part of the problem with Japanese Game Development is in the Work culture, and the odd nervousness of Stepping outside what is known.

But if we look at it, as how many fairly impactful games weve had from Japan these latest 5 years, the number seems to be growing. And new genres, and fresh takes on genres are beginning to pop up.

So I think they stand to be able to gain alot of new renown.

I hope not. The same thing will then happen with Japanese games just like it has with the west. Japanese developers would then be trying to develop with a more mainstream consumer base in mind, which is when they start to release the cookie cutter titles that so many people adore on here.

hell, I still think Japan makes the best titles since they're gameplay centric. It's funny to see threads about people complaining about how games don't focus on gameplay any more, but these complainers are primarily sticking to story-based blockbusters.

I want my niche shmups, rpgs, and action titles to remain niche instead of casualized for the masses.

Lol what.

You know Japan still owns a good chunk of the genre of video games around? Like Platformers, Fighting games, Action games, Hack n slash games, etc?

i am sure people here care more about call of duty then real story in games

All japanese 3rd party studios have adapted to western standards over the years minus nintendo.

Are you really that blind? Square Enix, Konami/Kojima, Sega, Capcom and tons more have been making more western styled games because that is where the money is. It is only nintendo that refuses to change.

Probably not.

They may have a better chance once the next gen handhelds are past PS360 in compute.. only because there seems to be diminishing returns in how gameplay is designed now.

Still doubt it tho.

I hope DaS/DkS gets bigger and bigger in terms of content (more areas, characters, dialogues, enemies, etc.). Grounded, heavy, weighted combat doesn't seem to be a Western signature.

Well To Be Fair, outside of JRPGs, Japan's got great gameplay. In the west they solve everything by throwing a story at it.

Also dude its like one country verses ten so give them a break geeze ! Infact 10% seems fair. However they do make like 99% of The Hack n' Slash and Fighting Genre. And I need those ! Don't you ?

sick and tired of this forum bashing Japanese games.. but to be fair, I think a gaming Japanese forum bashes western games for being just shoot from point A to Point B, Japanese games still always comes up with a unique gameplay and thats a fact (souls game, catherine, valkyria, mgs etc) western games are just better in hyping and advertising their product.

also american gamers loves shooters and the US is a big market and thats where the money at, so guess what kind of games most devs are going to make

Exactly...

I can't understand what they mean by Japanese industry is dying... if you mean they're not making stupid COD/BF games then yes, they're decaying.

Only genre that kinda lost ground are the Jrpgs and even they are recovering. I see plenty jrpgs being sold on 3ds/vita/ps/wii brands.

Besides as narutosup mentioned there are plenty of other genres that are still selling pretty good. This notion that Japanese games are failing is so wrong. Both East and West produce good games and bad games.

This never happened at all.

And in turn, Ultima was inspired by games like Temple of Apshai and Wizardry (the latter influencing Ultima III onwards). In fact, Wizardry was, and still is, the most popular Western RPG franchise in Japan, so much so that it had an anime based on it and they've continued the series long after its original American developer ceased to exist. Either way, I think it's a bit of a stretch to credit Ultima for the RPG genre as a whole, anymore than it is to credit Dragon Quest for Japanese RPG's as a whole. There were plenty of American RPG's before Ultima, just as there were plenty of Japanese RPG's before Dragon Quest.

While there's some things I agree with here, there's a few things I'd disagree with.

When it came to production values, it was usually the other way around, with Japanese games often having higher production values than Western games. It may not seem like it if we're only comparing PC and consoles, but Japan wasn't just all about consoles, but also arcades, handhelds, and even computers. For example, in the graphics evolution thread I created earlier, you'll notice Japanese arcade games often having the best graphics for much of the 80's and 90's, before being overtaken by Western PC games in the 2000's. And when it came to computers, Japanese computers like the Sharp X68000 and FM Towns were often more powerful than their Western counterparts like the Amiga and IBM-compatible PC. Japan also adopted CD-ROM first, which allowed Japanese games to have things like voice acting and cut-scenes before Western games did.

And regarding RPG's, while in the past American RPG's may have often been more complex while Japanese ones were usually more streamlined, it's very much the opposite nowadays, with modern Western RPG's often being more streamlined than their more complex Japanese counterparts. And FFXIII is not a good representation of this, since the reason that was so streamlined was because it was trying to appeal to Western audiences. A better example would be the Souls series, which were initially designed exclusively for a Japanese audience, before becoming an unexpected success among Western audiences.

I love how no one replied to my post.

Not on consoles. They refuse to change with the times. They're great on handhelds still. At least Nintendo is.

Since you requested it, I'll reply to this post...

If you're only referring to console games, then this is more or less true, However, the Japanese console market has already more or less "snapped its own neck" a long time now. Nowadays, the Japanese game industry is mainly dominated by handhelds and mobiles. The negative "Otaku" stigma you're referring to mainly applies to adults who play console or PC games, but it is culturally acceptable for Japanese adults to be playing handheld or mobile games, hence their dominance in Japan.

I hope not. They make ridiculous stories.

Depends on the leadership at the bigger publishers (Nintendo/Square Enix/Capcom), if Square Enix and Capcom want to continue making shovelware iOS/Android games and Nintendo continues making it's ridiculous mistakes that they made with the Wii U/3DS then Japan is going to be crippled.

Square Enix has a GOTY quality handheld game just sitting around waiting to be localized, its just sitting there, remember how much Persona 4 Golden sold? Type-0 would sell more than that....and they are more worried about Agito, which is an iOS spinoff of that game.

@Salt_The_Fries: Thats because youre an idiot.

people always forget that Pokemon is JRPG

Actually, there are some valid reasons why Square Enix and Capcom are going after the mobile gaming market. Right now, the Japanese mobile gaming market is huge, almost as large as the entire Japanese console gaming market, including both handheld and home consoles combined. In fact, Japanese mobile developers like GungHo, Dena and Gree are now some of the biggest game companies in the world, bigger than Capcom and Square Enix in terms of market capitalization, and at one point GungHo even surpassed both Sony and Nintendo last year, though both have regained their lead since then. From a business perspective, I wouldn't blame Capcom or Square Enix for wanting a piece of that mobile gaming market, but the problem is that they could end up losing a lot of their long-time core gaming fans in the process.

As for Nintendo, the 3DS is the best-selling console right now, so their 3DS strategy is working out just fine. The only problem is the Wii U, which is causing significant losses for Nintendo and is hurting their reputation along with it.

I assume those stats are for consoles only. Arcades are still very popular in Japan, while they're pretty much dead everywhere else.

I have no problem with them making mobile games, i have a problem with their mobile games getting in the way of console/handheld games, and the quality and pricing of the mobile games.