Why isn't Microsoft/X1 into artsy-fartsy games?

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#1 Edited by SolidGame_basic (22186 posts) -

I mean Sony has games like Journey and Puppeteer and Beyond Two Souls and a low key indie game called Rain and more. It seems like Sony does set aside some money for these kinds of artsy fartsy titles while MS is into dude bro and sports/racing games. Why is this? Is it because the X1 demographic is college dudes?

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#2 Posted by MonsieurX (36738 posts) -

Why is this a bad thread?

Avatar image for lostrib
#4 Posted by lostrib (49999 posts) -

@MonsieurX said:

Why is this a bad thread?

has TC ever made a good thread?

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#5 Posted by sibu_xgamer (340 posts) -

The MS audience is comprised of mostly bro gamers. Those people like competitive shooters mostly but there's little field for experimentaion. The Sony audience is more varied and daring. I feared the day MS would dominate gaming and we find ourselves drowned in COD clones but thankfully I think the danger is now over since MS is doing quite badly.

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#6 Edited by MonsieurX (36738 posts) -

@lostrib said:

@MonsieurX said:

Why is this a bad thread?

has TC ever made a good thread?

Have you?

Avatar image for SolidGame_basic
#7 Edited by SolidGame_basic (22186 posts) -

@MonsieurX said:

@lostrib said:

@MonsieurX said:

Why is this a bad thread?

has TC ever made a good thread?

Have you?

:D

Avatar image for lostrib
#8 Posted by lostrib (49999 posts) -

@MonsieurX said:

@lostrib said:

@MonsieurX said:

Why is this a bad thread?

has TC ever made a good thread?

Have you?

Yes

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#9 Posted by UnifiedConsole (44 posts) -

Inside, Cuphead, Ori and the blind forest, and below are all off the top of my head art games coming this year or early next year.

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#10 Edited by Salt_The_Fries (12477 posts) -

@sibu_xgamer said:

The MS audience is comprised of mostly bro gamers. Those people like competitive shooters mostly but there's little field for experimentaion. The Sony audience is more varied and daring. I feared the day MS would dominate gaming and we find ourselves drowned in COD clones but thankfully I think the danger is now over since MS is doing quite badly.

That's why these early PS4 adopters bought not Sony exclusives the most but Battlefield 4 and Call of Duty: Ghosts? Variety my ass, you don't even have the idea how diverse the gaming lineup of Xbox 360 was. And PS3 still hasn't even come close to it. And never will. Just like your brain will never evolve beyond ameoebic, single-cell phase.

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#11 Posted by lostrib (49999 posts) -

@sibu_xgamer said:

The MS audience is comprised of mostly bro gamers. Those people like competitive shooters mostly but there's little field for experimentaion. The Sony audience is more varied and daring. I feared the day MS would dominate gaming and we find ourselves drowned in COD clones but thankfully I think the danger is now over since MS is doing quite badly.

Can you show me these demographics, and how they compare to the Playstation audience?

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#12 Edited by B4X (5660 posts) -

Because they are stupid and lost their way with this KINECT BS.

Let's just hope they have realized their mistakes for gamers sake.

Kameo, PDZ, Nut's and bolts, Viva Pinata, A new conker, Grabbbed by the Ghoulies, shold have all had proper sequels.

Crimson Skies, Jade Empire, MechAssault, High Heat Base ball....the list is endless. Should all be added back to the library.

Can you say idiots? Going after the dollar and cutting off the golden gooses head?

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#13 Edited by MonsieurX (36738 posts) -

@lostrib said:

@MonsieurX said:

@lostrib said:

@MonsieurX said:

Why is this a bad thread?

has TC ever made a good thread?

Have you?

Yes

Prove it,in a scientific way.

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#14 Posted by lostrib (49999 posts) -

@MonsieurX said:

@lostrib said:

Yes

Prove it,in a scientific way.

no

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#15 Posted by silversix_ (26347 posts) -

American company that thinks of nothing else but dudebro games cuz they think that all that matters.

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#16 Posted by B4X (5660 posts) -

@silversix_ said:

American company that thinks of nothing else but dudebro games cuz they think that all that matters.

They made games. They were just Kinect garbage. They're paying for it now.

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#17 Posted by sibu_xgamer (340 posts) -

@Salt_The_Fries said:

@sibu_xgamer said:

The MS audience is comprised of mostly bro gamers. Those people like competitive shooters mostly but there's little field for experimentaion. The Sony audience is more varied and daring. I feared the day MS would dominate gaming and we find ourselves drowned in COD clones but thankfully I think the danger is now over since MS is doing quite badly.

That's why these early PS4 adopters bought not Sony exclusives the most but Battlefield 4 and Call of Duty: Ghosts? Variety my ass, you don't even have the idea how diverse the gaming lineup of Xbox 360 was. And PS3 still hasn't even come close to it. And never will. Just like your brain will never evolve beyond ameoebic, single-cell phase.

I think I hit a nerve. If you're a bro gamer you shouldn't feel bad about yourself, you just have to accept yourself. It's really hard to argue that the xbone is advertised and aimed at the bro gamer crowd and that that audience is the one that is prevalent there. Of course the PS4 also has lots of bro gamers but the sales on other types of games are usually much higher than on the xbone. Sony aims at a much varied crowd.

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#18 Posted by Netherscourge (16364 posts) -

Sony made it a point to promote Indie games and alternative games, along side the blockbuster games.

Microsoft just pushes the Triple-A budget games for the most part. FPS mainly. Hopefully they take indies and alternative games more seriously now, since they sell very well on the PS3/PS4.

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#19 Edited by SolidGame_basic (22186 posts) -

@Netherscourge said:

Sony made it a point to promote Indie games and alternative games, along side the blockbuster games.

Microsoft just pushes the Triple-A budget games for the most part. FPS mainly. Hopefully they take indies and alternative games more seriously now, since they sell very well on the PS3/PS4.

You think they will?

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#20 Edited by sam890 (1108 posts) -

inb4lock

But really though artsy-fartsy ?

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#21 Posted by Lulu_Lulu (19564 posts) -

You've got it backwards dude.... Its the Artsy fartsy game developers that are not into Microsoft and their bullsh!t policies. Seriously.... I've heared many horror stories on how much of a pain in the ass it is to get their game on the Xbox. Its really not worth the hassle

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#22 Edited by ReadingRainbow4 (18733 posts) -

I don't think we watched the same e3 2014 press conference.

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#23 Posted by SolidGame_basic (22186 posts) -

@Lulu_Lulu said:

You've got it backwards dude.... Its the Artsy fartsy game developers that are not into Microsoft and their bullsh!t policies. Seriously.... I've heared many horror stories on how much of a pain in the ass it is to get their game on the Xbox. Its really not worth the hassle

Yes, but did you see the titles I listed in the OP? they are all published by Sony. why doesn't MS do that? also, when will you finally get a Wii U?

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#24 Posted by Lulu_Lulu (19564 posts) -

@SolidGame_basi

Soon my precious... Soon....

Actually Nintendo hasn't shipped any Wii U's here in quite some time.... I'm in no rush since I still wana try Project Spark 1st.

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#25 Edited by SolidGame_basic (22186 posts) -

@Lulu_Lulu said:

@SolidGame_basi

Soon my precious... Soon....

Actually Nintendo hasn't shipped any Wii U's here in quite some time.... I'm in no rush since I still wana try Project Spark 1st.

where?

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#26 Posted by Lulu_Lulu (19564 posts) -

@SolidGame_basic

South Africa.

Avatar image for The_Last_Ride
#27 Posted by The_Last_Ride (76371 posts) -

@SolidGame_basic: Because of the program they provided that pretty much alienated all indie gamers and they still do. The developers have to pay 50k to enter the program, and MS approves everything coming out on the store. They can not self publish and they have to pay out of the ass to patch the game

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#28 Posted by lawlessx (48753 posts) -

For once i want to click on system wars and see a decent threat posted.

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#29 Posted by bbkkristian (14971 posts) -

I was about to ask the same thing after watching Sony's e3.

Really, though, asides from a few studios, the only devs that focus on art is the japanese developers. Even Sony is lacking of them right now because they're going handheld.

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#30 Posted by darkangel115 (4449 posts) -

@The_Last_Ride said:

@SolidGame_basic: Because of the program they provided that pretty much alienated all indie gamers and they still do. The developers have to pay 50k to enter the program, and MS approves everything coming out on the store. They can not self publish and they have to pay out of the ass to patch the game

Except MS was the one that started the indie games on console thing. XBLA started on the original xbox 10 years ago allowing people to download indie games. Sony just recently started doing it and now are really pushing it to supplement their library. Imagine if they didn't have indies on PS4 right now?

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#31 Posted by lawlessx (48753 posts) -

@darkangel115 said:

@The_Last_Ride said:

@SolidGame_basic: Because of the program they provided that pretty much alienated all indie gamers and they still do. The developers have to pay 50k to enter the program, and MS approves everything coming out on the store. They can not self publish and they have to pay out of the ass to patch the game

Except MS was the one that started the indie games on console thing. XBLA started on the original xbox 10 years ago allowing people to download indie games. Sony just recently started doing it and now are really pushing it to supplement their library. Imagine if they didn't have indies on PS4 right now?

you have to understand that nothing is important or special until Sony starts doing it aswell.

its the unspoken rule in system wars and has been proven to be true many times over

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#32 Posted by The_Last_Ride (76371 posts) -

@darkangel115 said:

@The_Last_Ride said:

@SolidGame_basic: Because of the program they provided that pretty much alienated all indie gamers and they still do. The developers have to pay 50k to enter the program, and MS approves everything coming out on the store. They can not self publish and they have to pay out of the ass to patch the game

Except MS was the one that started the indie games on console thing. XBLA started on the original xbox 10 years ago allowing people to download indie games. Sony just recently started doing it and now are really pushing it to supplement their library. Imagine if they didn't have indies on PS4 right now?

True, but the program is crap. Why do you think all the games flock to PS3/PS4 now? It's because the XBLA program is crap. Even with the new ID@Xbox thingy. The tone hasn't changed since it was revealed a few years ago

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#33 Edited by lawlessx (48753 posts) -

@The_Last_Ride said:

@darkangel115 said:

@The_Last_Ride said:

@SolidGame_basic: Because of the program they provided that pretty much alienated all indie gamers and they still do. The developers have to pay 50k to enter the program, and MS approves everything coming out on the store. They can not self publish and they have to pay out of the ass to patch the game

Except MS was the one that started the indie games on console thing. XBLA started on the original xbox 10 years ago allowing people to download indie games. Sony just recently started doing it and now are really pushing it to supplement their library. Imagine if they didn't have indies on PS4 right now?

True, but the program is crap. Why do you think all the games flock to PS3/PS4 now? It's because the XBLA program is crap. Even with the new ID@Xbox thingy. The tone hasn't changed since it was revealed a few years ago

The XBLA system is crap? ok ill bite..why is it a terrible system?

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#34 Posted by edidili (3449 posts) -

@Netherscourge said:

Microsoft just pushes the Triple-A budget games for the most part. FPS mainly.

We have yet to see a FPS published by MS for xbox one. Sony had a FPS as the launch title.

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#35 Posted by SolidGame_basic (22186 posts) -

@Lulu_Lulu said:

@SolidGame_basic

South Africa.

Interesting!

Avatar image for The_Last_Ride
#36 Posted by The_Last_Ride (76371 posts) -

@lawlessx said:

@The_Last_Ride said:

@darkangel115 said:

@The_Last_Ride said:

@SolidGame_basic: Because of the program they provided that pretty much alienated all indie gamers and they still do. The developers have to pay 50k to enter the program, and MS approves everything coming out on the store. They can not self publish and they have to pay out of the ass to patch the game

Except MS was the one that started the indie games on console thing. XBLA started on the original xbox 10 years ago allowing people to download indie games. Sony just recently started doing it and now are really pushing it to supplement their library. Imagine if they didn't have indies on PS4 right now?

True, but the program is crap. Why do you think all the games flock to PS3/PS4 now? It's because the XBLA program is crap. Even with the new ID@Xbox thingy. The tone hasn't changed since it was revealed a few years ago

The XBLA system is crap? ok ill bite..why is it a terrible system?

Because of the policies, i really hope Spencer is going to change that. Not allowing self publishing like Sony is allowing after they hired Adam Boyes, who is after all an indie guy. MS controls everything, and even if the game is done and ready to go, they can just flat out say no and cancel the game. Even if they pay the fee just to enter the program

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#37 Posted by darkangel115 (4449 posts) -

@The_Last_Ride said:

@darkangel115 said:

@The_Last_Ride said:

@SolidGame_basic: Because of the program they provided that pretty much alienated all indie gamers and they still do. The developers have to pay 50k to enter the program, and MS approves everything coming out on the store. They can not self publish and they have to pay out of the ass to patch the game

Except MS was the one that started the indie games on console thing. XBLA started on the original xbox 10 years ago allowing people to download indie games. Sony just recently started doing it and now are really pushing it to supplement their library. Imagine if they didn't have indies on PS4 right now?

True, but the program is crap. Why do you think all the games flock to PS3/PS4 now? It's because the XBLA program is crap. Even with the new ID@Xbox thingy. The tone hasn't changed since it was revealed a few years ago

Why exactly is it crap? When it was launched it was the only way to play indie games on consoles. Sony and Nintendo didn't offer the same service. I do agree some of the policies were strict but MS does huge quality control on content on its network. Compared to say PC where anyone can make a game and a website and get it out there but who knows what you are really downloading? With XO MS changed policies. They used to require a demo or trial for every game so you could try before you buy. They also had charges for patches. IIRC both of those were removed with ID@Xbox. They also gave out free dev kits and have 400+ developers signed up for the program currently. The only thing they kept is the parity clause.

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#38 Posted by Lulu_Lulu (19564 posts) -

@SolidGame_basic

Not really.... Whats interesting is we won't be seein the Xbox One until October. : and when we do, theres a good chance it would be $600 just like the PS4.

www.takealot.com/gaming/playstation-4-console-500gb-1-x-wireless-controller-ps4,29792195

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#39 Edited by LJS9502_basic (161925 posts) -

Probably catering to their demographic.

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#40 Posted by SolidGame_basic (22186 posts) -

@Lulu_Lulu said:

@SolidGame_basic

Not really.... Whats interesting is we won't be seein the Xbox One until October. : and when we do, theres a good chance it would be $600 just like the PS4.

www.takealot.com/gaming/playstation-4-console-500gb-1-x-wireless-controller-ps4,29792195

You want an X1?

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#41 Edited by SolidTy (49991 posts) -

@The_Last_Ride said:

@lawlessx said:

@The_Last_Ride said:

True, but the program is crap. Why do you think all the games flock to PS3/PS4 now? It's because the XBLA program is crap. Even with the new ID@Xbox thingy. The tone hasn't changed since it was revealed a few years ago

The XBLA system is crap? ok ill bite..why is it a terrible system?

Because of the policies, i really hope Spencer is going to change that. Not allowing self publishing like Sony is allowing after they hired Adam Boyes, who is after all an indie guy. MS controls everything, and even if the game is done and ready to go, they can just flat out say no and cancel the game. Even if they pay the fee just to enter the program

The Xbone parity clause means developers can only release their titles on Xbone if they haven't already been released on other consoles first. That clause is keeping games off Xbone and forcing other devs to consider Xbone first and come to other machines/platforms later which is the goal of the clause. These indie teams are pretty small, so having to design a game for both platforms simultaneously can be expensive. With the success of the 360, the clause was in effect and the economics worked out since the 360 sold so well. However, the economics of the Xbone (i.e. it's not the 360) have changed the landscape for tiny devs looking to stay afloat to make their next game.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/05/01/xbox-one-parity-clause-a-shame-says-stealth-inc-dev

Xbox One Parity Clause a 'Shame' Says Stealth Inc. Dev

"You can imagine how hard it is for smaller developers." The developer of Stealth Inc. 2 has discussed Microsoft's controversial parity clause, saying most of the games industry wants it gone.

"It’s preventing us from bringing some of the older stuff through and doing what we want. There’s 40 of us, and we’re still saying we should be able to work around it, so you can imagine how hard it is for smaller developers in one and two man teams who are faced with having to release on PlayStation and Xbox simultaneously. We’ll hopefully be on Xbox One at some stage.

"We’ve been with ID@Xbox since launch. We weren’t in the initial announcement only because it conflicted with something going on with Sony at the time. We’ve had the kits for a long time and we’ve been talking to them for a long time about Xbox One. Almost six months. Hopefully we’ll get there soon, but then that’s because we’re big enough to handle the launch parity thing...

"Hopefully Microsoft will drop it. They’ve been told by a lot of the industry it’d be better if they did, but they haven’t yet. It’s a shame.

Indies aren't in as much control of their product on the Xbox platform as they are on other platforms.

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#42 Posted by The_Last_Ride (76371 posts) -

@darkangel115: By the tone of the indie developers, not much has changed. Also everyone get's a free dev kit from Sony aswell. There is still no self publushing on XBLA, hell they removed it entirely last summer. Sony does also the same, they check that the games are done and then release it. They let the developers choose the price they want to sell it for. MS doesn't allow that

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#43 Posted by Lulu_Lulu (19564 posts) -

@SolidGame_basic

Oh God no !

Don't get me wrong, I like the machine but boy do I hate the corporation behind it and its crappy service..... Nope... Certainly don't want that.

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#44 Posted by The_Last_Ride (76371 posts) -

@SolidTy: I just want it to change, which it hasn't

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#45 Posted by SolidTy (49991 posts) -

@The_Last_Ride said:

@SolidTy: I just want it to change, which it hasn't

Yep. It would bring more games to Xbone. Late is better than never.

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#46 Posted by The_Last_Ride (76371 posts) -

@SolidTy said:

@The_Last_Ride said:

@SolidTy: I just want it to change, which it hasn't

Yep. It would bring more games to Xbone. Late is better than never.

True, but it doesn't look like it's going to change. However seing Ori during the MS conference was awesome

Avatar image for SolidTy
#47 Edited by SolidTy (49991 posts) -

@The_Last_Ride said:

@SolidTy said:

@The_Last_Ride said:

@SolidTy: I just want it to change, which it hasn't

Yep. It would bring more games to Xbone. Late is better than never.

True, but it doesn't look like it's going to change. However seing Ori during the MS conference was awesome

Yeah, they nabbed some timed exclusive indies which was cool for fans. In the specific case of Ori, if it gets great scores, I'll pick up Ori for my Xbone. The dev is untested though so I'm always a little apprehensive despite the pretty show (this is their second game), but I'm always on the look out for new talent. It's not impossible to get the indies, but it just makes it harder with some of their policies unless M$ takes a special interest in the developer/game.

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#48 Posted by Bruin1986 (1629 posts) -

@SolidGame_basic said:

I mean Sony has games like Journey and Puppeteer and Beyond Two Souls and a low key indie game called Rain and more. It seems like Sony does set aside some money for these kinds of artsy fartsy titles while MS is into dude bro and sports/racing games. Why is this? Is it because the X1 demographic is college dudes?

Ori and the Blind Forest was probably the most artistically beautiful game at E3, so I'm not sure what you're talking about TC.

Or is it naive of me to expect anything other than confirmation bias?

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#49 Posted by The_Last_Ride (76371 posts) -

@SolidTy: i really don't think they will, they will go after the big ones with timed exclusive content like Battlefield and COD. They also finally got some exclusive content for Dragon Age and FIFA

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#50 Posted by darkangel115 (4449 posts) -

@The_Last_Ride said:

@darkangel115: By the tone of the indie developers, not much has changed. Also everyone get's a free dev kit from Sony aswell. There is still no self publushing on XBLA, hell they removed it entirely last summer. Sony does also the same, they check that the games are done and then release it. They let the developers choose the price they want to sell it for. MS doesn't allow that

well I'm not an expert on the new policies so i had to look it up, and they do allow self publishing

http://www.xbox.com/en-us/Developers/id

Also XBLA doesn't exist anymore as MS doesn't want to separate games by type. here are some more policies

No Cost Development Tools

ID@Xbox developers get access to two developer kits at no cost, as well as access to all required technical documentation, private forums, free middleware, and more. And there are no fees to submit or update a game on Xbox One.

Full Platform Access

Games that come through ID@Xbox have access to the full power of the platform, including: Kinect, Achievements, Gamerscore, Challenges, SmartGlass, Xbox Live, and more. Bottom line: If a game can do it on Xbox One, an ID@Xbox game can do it on Xbox One.

Self Publishing

The ID@Xbox program enables qualified game developers of all sizes to unleash their creativity by self-publishing digital games on Xbox One, giving studios the tools and support needed to maximize their success. Here's the process at a glance:

More info on new policies and dev feedback enjoying the program

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/198528/Microsoft_lifts_veil_on_IDXbox__Xbox_Ones_selfpublishing_program.php

So it seems you are not up to date with the new policies.

Also I seen on GAF a few weeks back a post from a indie devs twitter thanking MS for their help. They said sony told them they were out of "loaner" dev kits but offered to sell them the equipment they needed to make their game on PS4. They said buying it all would have cost them to forgo 2 months salary which for them wasn't an option because you know bills and all. MS came in and gave them all the equipment they needed for free to make and self publish their game.

Maybe your thoughts on XB indie policies are a little outdated?