Why is everyone so accepting of online paywalls?...

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Avatar image for cainetao11
#102 Posted by cainetao11 (36491 posts) -

@ConanTheStoner said:

@cainetao11:

Haha, yeah I feel ya on that one man. Such a waste.

Guess we're really on the same page. It is their money and people can do what they want. People definitely do worse things with their money than paying for online gaming.

I just get carried away because..

1. It's System Wars

2. I've gone out of my way over the years to stand against these new age gaming industry practices. And I just know if enough other people out there looked at it the same way, we wouldn't be in this mess now.

I'll admit, I was proud of gamers when they stood up to MS after the Xbone reveal... but then they immediately turned around and swallowed Sonys load without flinching.

It's frustrating, but I suppose it's too late now. I just hope this as far it gets.

I know. I was impressed that the people let MS know, no fuckin way, and I was glad a year later at how MS has responded. If only gamers hadn't been swept up in Sony's "see how much better we are for you" PR BS, and seen where they were doing the same thing, maybe it could have been a huge thing where we gaming consumers had stood up and let them all know that we aren't going to be taken by anyone. Oh well. I think these are reasons I did have my first rig built this year.

Avatar image for nethernova
#103 Posted by nethernova (5689 posts) -

It's not acceptable for online play. I pay for the game rentals.

@mikhail said:

@spike6958 said:

The real question is why do so many Hermits talk crap about console gamers paying a monthly fee to play all there games online and get offered "free" games, when most of them pay more monthly just to play WoW?

Seriously why is £9.99 a month for WoW perfectly acceptable, but £5.99 for Xbox Live or PSN not?

I don't know a single person who actively plays WoW anymore.

Yes, and because you don't know any it means that zero people play it. Blizzard must be really stupid. Running servers for a game that nobody plays. Is today your dumb day or are you always like that?

Avatar image for mikhail
#104 Posted by mikhail (2697 posts) -

@nethernova said:

It's not acceptable for online play. I pay for the game rentals.

@mikhail said:

@spike6958 said:

The real question is why do so many Hermits talk crap about console gamers paying a monthly fee to play all there games online and get offered "free" games, when most of them pay more monthly just to play WoW?

Seriously why is £9.99 a month for WoW perfectly acceptable, but £5.99 for Xbox Live or PSN not?

I don't know a single person who actively plays WoW anymore.

Yes, and because you don't know any it means that zero people play it. Blizzard must be really stupid. Running servers for a game that nobody plays. Is today your dumb day or are you always like that?

Easy there killer. Dude said "most of them pay more monthly just to play Wow" - insinuating that most PC gamers play WoW, and it simply isn't true.

Work on your reading comprehension.

Avatar image for cainetao11
#105 Edited by cainetao11 (36491 posts) -

@thegreatgeneral said:

@Thunderdrone:

"Why is everyone so accepting of online paywalls?..."

Everyone?

Lemmings payed for p2p connections for years without getting anything in return, while attacking PSN spouting bullshit about how much much better xbl was when many PS3 games actually had dedis. This showed Sony how stupid the majority of the gaming community really is and now we have a required service there too. But even then, thankfully Sony are not as greedy as MS and give out games worth a shit to compensate for it.

Now a question for you. How many years have you payed for xbl?

"This showed Sony how stupid the majority", are you fucking for real? When Sony is and has been the world wide favorite for quite a long time it was this mysterious majority that played on XBL? I love when you corporate pole slurpers try to give Sony a pass for what they do. Everyone on this planet is responsible for their own behavior. What are Sony a bunch of fuckin monkey see, monkey do people? No. They charge for online. You cows spoke about not being greedy and principles all last gen. Funny a couple of low cost rentals per month and those high and mighty morals disappeared, didn't they? Grease your palms with games and no more principle? Now its all ok to pay your beloved masters. Yeah Sony aren't greedy, that's why I cant use micro SD in my vita instead of a price tag of $100 for 32 gb. That by gamers for gamers of course.

Avatar image for darkangel115
#106 Posted by darkangel115 (4449 posts) -

@cainetao11 said:

@thegreatgeneral said:

@Thunderdrone:

"Why is everyone so accepting of online paywalls?..."

Everyone?

Lemmings payed for p2p connections for years without getting anything in return, while attacking PSN spouting bullshit about how much much better xbl was when many PS3 games actually had dedis. This showed Sony how stupid the majority of the gaming community really is and now we have a required service there too. But even then, thankfully Sony are not as greedy as MS and give out games worth a shit to compensate for it.

Now a question for you. How many years have you payed for xbl?

"This showed Sony how stupid the majority", are you fucking for real? When Sony is and has been the world wide favorite for quite a long time it was this mysterious majority that played on XBL? I love you when you corporate pole slurpers try to give Sony a pass for what they do. Everyone on this planet is responsible for their own behavior. What are Sony a bunch of fuckin monkey see, monkey do people? No. They charge for online. You cows spoke about not being greedy and principles all last gen. Funny a couple of low cost rentals per month and those high and mighty morals disappeared, didn't they? Now its all ok to pay your beloved masters. Yeah Sony aren't greedy, that's why I can use micro SD in my vita instead of a price tag of $100 for 32 gb. That by gamers for gamers of course.

A lot of people seem to forget how sony fans got their nickname. it was their ability to milk people.

Avatar image for Kjranu
#107 Posted by Kjranu (1787 posts) -

Ol Gabe should introduce a two tier Steam account. The second tier being the free one where you can play single player games but online? Pay up for Steam Plus!

Avatar image for thegreatgeneral
#108 Posted by TheGreatGeneral (717 posts) -
@cainetao11 said:
@thegreatgeneral said:

@Thunderdrone:

"Why is everyone so accepting of online paywalls?..."

Everyone?

Lemmings payed for p2p connections for years without getting anything in return, while attacking PSN spouting bullshit about how much much better xbl was when many PS3 games actually had dedis. This showed Sony how stupid the majority of the gaming community really is and now we have a required service there too. But even then, thankfully Sony are not as greedy as MS and give out games worth a shit to compensate for it.

Now a question for you. How many years have you payed for xbl?

"This showed Sony how stupid the majority", are you fucking for real? When Sony is and has been the world wide favorite for quite a long time it was this mysterious majority that played on XBL? I love when you corporate pole slurpers try to give Sony a pass for what they do. Everyone on this planet is responsible for their own behavior. What are Sony a bunch of fuckin monkey see, monkey do people? No. They charge for online. You cows spoke about not being greedy and principles all last gen. Funny a couple of low cost rentals per month and those high and mighty morals disappeared, didn't they? Grease your palms with games and no more principle? Now its all ok to pay your beloved masters. Yeah Sony aren't greedy, that's why I cant use micro SD in my vita instead of a price tag of $100 for 32 gb. That by gamers for gamers of course.

You talk as if you know shit.

I blame neither MS nor Sony because its consumers that actually have the real power. MS got cash for free and lemmings defended them and promoted xbl for how many years? If I was the head of Sony I would have required PS+ long ago. Dont you get it? If people really wanted to, they could force out MS, Nintendo and Sony out of the console business within a year. They could force the corporations to do practically anything.

You know, Im really happy that MS got all the shit for their planned DRM from people right at the beginning because the so called gaming media sure as **** didnt do it. Just like the media and lemmings sucked MS dick the whole gen for xbl. If they could set a foot with their DRM they would have established it and everyone would have followed suit even in the PC space where we already have some online requieremts where there is no need. Then after 5 or so years we would have the exact same shit thread as this one, asking why everyone is so accepting of online requirements and no used games.

@cainetao11 said:

I love when you corporate pole slurpers try to give Sony a pass for what they do.

You know shit about me, so shut the **** up. Not even once did I excuse them for the requierement.

I own a 360 and do you want to know how much I payed for xbl? Zero.

Do you want to know how much I payed for microtransactions? Zero.

Do you want to know how much I payed for shitty DLC? Zero.

Do you want to know how much I payed for broken games? Zero.

If the majority of the gaming community acted like me, we would be in a customer heaven.

@darkangel115 said:

A lot of people seem to forget how sony fans got their nickname. it was their ability to milk people.

Oh boy, a fucking lemming acting all high and mighty.

Since OP will not answer, I will ask you. How many years did you pay for xbl?

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#109 Posted by kazeswen (1627 posts) -

Because Sony thought free online would help them win the last console war, but in the end people took it for granted.

If people were more grateful for PS3s free online play, then maybe Sony would have kept it.

People always take things for granted until its gone.

Avatar image for DarthaPerkinjan
#110 Posted by DarthaPerkinjan (1224 posts) -

Its still way more expensive to play online with PC. iRacing alone is $50 a year

Avatar image for cainetao11
#111 Edited by cainetao11 (36491 posts) -

@thegreatgeneral:

"You know shit about me, so shut the **** up. Not even once did I excuse them for the requierement."

Yeah internet tough guy, make me shut up.

Wait? The media didn't give MS shit? What fucking world were you on? Many editorials on IGN, here, and business pages raped the stupidity of those idiotic policies. Guess we read differently. And MS deserved every bit of bad press. I don't give a **** if you paid zero for your blow up boyfriend. Nobody cares what you do fella.

"If the majority of the gaming community acted like me, we would be in a customer heaven."------little narcissistic huh?

You didn't blame the consumers in that first post, you blamed lems and defended PSN when it was pretty widely accepted that Live was a better network last gen. Oh right, a few games had dedicated servers. Well Live has that now just about across the board and the network is still hokey. You're a cow. We all know it.

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#112 Posted by Toph_Girl250 (48978 posts) -

Hmmm damn, this paywalls thing appears to be a mess, suppose its a good thing that I'm not a participant.

Also, I'm sure when Nintendo catches up and has better internet connection for online services, they're likely gonna go with the idea to charge as well, I just hope its at least a cheap reasonable price.

Avatar image for p3anut
#113 Posted by p3anut (6279 posts) -

@DarthaPerkinjan said:

Its still way more expensive to play online with PC. iRacing alone is $50 a year

That's different....it's a subscription based game and you HAVE the option of buying the game or not.

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#115 Posted by MrGeezer (59764 posts) -

@ConanTheStoner said:

****, it's one thing to pay for the shit and keep your mouth shut, it's another thing entirely to shill for these companies like a little bitch. Can't believe some of these comments in this thread.

@SolidGame_basic said:

because some of us having decent paying jobs and $35 a year is really not that big of a deal?

@davillain- said:

Because I got money to pay for it.

Really dudes?

It's not about what you make. I made enough money in an hour and a half yesterday to pay for both Live and PSN for the rest of the gen. That's not the point.

It seems you guys are just into the idea of throwing money at whatever the ****. By all means, send me your extra cash if you don't care for it.

They aren't shilling for the companies. They weren't the ones who started the thread. The TC immediately challenged evryone who accepts an online paywall to defend themselves, and these people are merely stating why. Reason: essentially because "**** $35, that means nothing to me."

Hell, last night I gave a bum a whole dollar. i mean, A WHOLE GODDAMN DOLLAR. And he didn't even give me anything in return. Not a video game, not a blowjob, just NOTHING. Then my friend was like, "what the hell, man, why did you do that?"

And I said, "because it's a fucking dollar. Who gives a shit about a dollar?"

Then he said, "if a dollar is so meaningless, give me a dollar."

So then I took out a TEN dollar bill. But no, instead of giving it to him, I lit it on fire. If he wants to see what a dollar means to me, I'll set ten dollars on fire just to show him how little of a shit I give about that. But I'll be goddamned if I'm gonna give the money to him. I have no problem giving the bum a dollar, in large part because he doesn't then stand there and call me an idiot for giving him a dollar.

Avatar image for SolidTy
#116 Edited by SolidTy (49991 posts) -

@MrGeezer said:

@ConanTheStoner said:

****, it's one thing to pay for the shit and keep your mouth shut, it's another thing entirely to shill for these companies like a little bitch. Can't believe some of these comments in this thread.

@SolidGame_basic said:

because some of us having decent paying jobs and $35 a year is really not that big of a deal?

@davillain- said:

Because I got money to pay for it.

Really dudes?

It's not about what you make. I made enough money in an hour and a half yesterday to pay for both Live and PSN for the rest of the gen. That's not the point.

It seems you guys are just into the idea of throwing money at whatever the ****. By all means, send me your extra cash if you don't care for it.

They aren't shilling for the companies. They weren't the ones who started the thread. The TC immediately challenged evryone who accepts an online paywall to defend themselves, and these people are merely stating why. Reason: essentially because "**** $35, that means nothing to me."

Hell, last night I gave a bum a whole dollar. i mean, A WHOLE GODDAMN DOLLAR. And he didn't even give me anything in return. Not a video game, not a blowjob, just NOTHING. Then my friend was like, "what the hell, man, why did you do that?"

And I said, "because it's a fucking dollar. Who gives a shit about a dollar?"

Then he said, "if a dollar is so meaningless, give me a dollar."

So then I took out a TEN dollar bill. But no, instead of giving it to him, I lit it on fire. If he wants to see what a dollar means to me, I'll set ten dollars on fire just to show him how little of a shit I give about that. But I'll be goddamned if I'm gonna give the money to him. I have no problem giving the bum a dollar, in large part because he doesn't then stand there and call me an idiot for giving him a dollar.

I liked your story. It causes me to wonder about the kinds of friends some of us choose to keep around.

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#117 Edited by KingJuggaNott (200 posts) -

I'm strictly streaming--the money that I save on not having cable, I use it on XBL and PS+. I rely on all of the entertainment that XBL has, from ESPN, NFL Network etc. I'm also excited that HBO and other channels are making it where you can get HBO without cable etc.

Just because you have a HDTV that doesn't mean that a cable company will just allow you to watch Cable for free. They are going to charge for everything. Cable, HD Box, Remotes...everything......the key is just making it work for you. If it can't....just do without.

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#118 Posted by br0kenrabbit (15936 posts) -

@lundy86_4 said:

If I didn't pay, there would still be paywalls. I want to play my games, so I pay the fees. It's bullshit, but unless a significant amount of people stop paying, then the corporations will continue to not give a shit.

You CAN play all the consoles online without subscribing to their services, you just can't actually use 'their' (air quotes) services. But, I've said too much...

Avatar image for lamprey263
#119 Edited by lamprey263 (36039 posts) -

At the very least the cost of them are both made up by the free games and discounts on content... considering one doesn't buy the games that are offered before they're offered.

Avatar image for Malta_1980
#120 Edited by Malta_1980 (11890 posts) -

I was never a fan of having to pay XBL for playing games online.. Same thing with Sony now were gamers who want a PS4 and enjoy gaming online are being forced to subscribe and pay...

I guess that's how business goes !!

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#121 Edited by TheGreatGeneral (717 posts) -
@cainetao11 said:

@thegreatgeneral:

Wait? The media didn't give MS shit? What fucking world were you on? Many editorials on IGN, here, and business pages raped the stupidity of those idiotic policies. Guess we read differently. And MS deserved every bit of bad press. I don't give a **** if you paid zero for your blow up boyfriend. Nobody cares what you do fella.

It took them quite a while to react while the gaming community reacted immediately and very strongly. When was that piece from IGN posted in correlation to the rumors and announcements? I remember that they were one of the last ones. On the other hand we had gaming journalist like Sessler trying to downplay that shit. I remember that he had a special stream where he defended MS to no end.

"If the majority of the gaming community acted like me, we would be in a customer heaven."------little narcissistic huh?

Maybe, but its the truth. I never payed for online, never baught shitty DLC or Microtransactions. Can you say the same about you?

You didn't blame the consumers in that first post, you blamed lems and defended PSN when it was pretty widely accepted that Live was a better network last gen.

LOL, thats exactly the argument lemmings did the whole last gen "you get what you pay for" or "At least we dont get hacked". You are the one defending MS right now. I do blame lemmings (are lemmings suddenly not consumers anymore?), because they made it clear to any corporation that its okay to have this anti consumer practices and they are even getting a pat on the head for it, like you just did.

Oh right, a few games had dedicated servers. Well Live has that now just about across the board and the network is still hokey. You're a cow. We all know it.

I never hide the fact that I prefered Sony, but that is only because they are the only ones worth a shit. And please, even MCC doesnt have dedis for the most part. MS simply lied about how every game will have dedis. What was the official line again? They will give devs free access to azure? Some dumb lemmings even believed that multiplats will have dedid on the xbone while not on PS4, talk about delusional.

Avatar image for X_CAPCOM_X
#122 Posted by X_CAPCOM_X (8526 posts) -

Why are people saying that it's the consumer base's fault? Ask anyone and they'll disagree with the concept of a paywall. In fact you can ask most people and they'll say the same about DRM. The real reason this occurs is because the companies need to stay profitable; it has nothing to do with "our votes." No, it's gaming under capitalism, and competition kills. Expect to see a revival of this DRM issue in the future.

Avatar image for KillzoneSnake
#123 Edited by KillzoneSnake (2441 posts) -

More and more casuals are coming into gaming. They a ready to pay for anything, even if it makes no sense. I'm going to stop paying for PS+ since it has no value. The free games are nice, but online is same as on free PS3... so wtf am i paying for? Laggy p2p and less active games. PS3 games had more people online. KZ, PES, all had more people online cuz it was free. Pretty soon we will have to pay for bullets we fire. Retarded.

Avatar image for HalcyonScarlet
#124 Posted by HalcyonScarlet (8346 posts) -

It was unacceptable and it was considered that half your game was held at ransom... then it came to Playstation.

Avatar image for HalcyonScarlet
#125 Posted by HalcyonScarlet (8346 posts) -

@MonsieurX said:

They don't have a choice

I disagree. They tried it on the PC and PC gamers said no. They then abandoned it.

Avatar image for MonsieurX
#126 Posted by MonsieurX (38982 posts) -

@HalcyonScarlet said:

@MonsieurX said:

They don't have a choice

I disagree. They tried it on the PC and PC gamers said no. They then abandoned it.

"They" ?

Avatar image for Krelian-co
#127 Posted by Krelian-co (13274 posts) -

@HalcyonScarlet said:

@MonsieurX said:

They don't have a choice

I disagree. They tried it on the PC and PC gamers said no. They then abandoned it.

pc had other options, consoles don't

Avatar image for LJS9502_basic
#128 Posted by LJS9502_basic (166331 posts) -

@KillzoneSnake said:

More and more casuals are coming into gaming. They a ready to pay for anything, even if it makes no sense. I'm going to stop paying for PS+ since it has no value. The free games are nice, but online is same as on free PS3... so wtf am i paying for? Laggy p2p and less active games. PS3 games had more people online. KZ, PES, all had more people online cuz it was free. Pretty soon we will have to pay for bullets we fire.

Or could it be because more people have a PS3....

Avatar image for darkangel115
#129 Posted by darkangel115 (4449 posts) -

@thegreatgeneral said:
@cainetao11 said:
@thegreatgeneral said:

@Thunderdrone:

"Why is everyone so accepting of online paywalls?..."

Everyone?

Lemmings payed for p2p connections for years without getting anything in return, while attacking PSN spouting bullshit about how much much better xbl was when many PS3 games actually had dedis. This showed Sony how stupid the majority of the gaming community really is and now we have a required service there too. But even then, thankfully Sony are not as greedy as MS and give out games worth a shit to compensate for it.

Now a question for you. How many years have you payed for xbl?

"This showed Sony how stupid the majority", are you fucking for real? When Sony is and has been the world wide favorite for quite a long time it was this mysterious majority that played on XBL? I love when you corporate pole slurpers try to give Sony a pass for what they do. Everyone on this planet is responsible for their own behavior. What are Sony a bunch of fuckin monkey see, monkey do people? No. They charge for online. You cows spoke about not being greedy and principles all last gen. Funny a couple of low cost rentals per month and those high and mighty morals disappeared, didn't they? Grease your palms with games and no more principle? Now its all ok to pay your beloved masters. Yeah Sony aren't greedy, that's why I cant use micro SD in my vita instead of a price tag of $100 for 32 gb. That by gamers for gamers of course.

You talk as if you know shit.

I blame neither MS nor Sony because its consumers that actually have the real power. MS got cash for free and lemmings defended them and promoted xbl for how many years? If I was the head of Sony I would have required PS+ long ago. Dont you get it? If people really wanted to, they could force out MS, Nintendo and Sony out of the console business within a year. They could force the corporations to do practically anything.

You know, Im really happy that MS got all the shit for their planned DRM from people right at the beginning because the so called gaming media sure as **** didnt do it. Just like the media and lemmings sucked MS dick the whole gen for xbl. If they could set a foot with their DRM they would have established it and everyone would have followed suit even in the PC space where we already have some online requieremts where there is no need. Then after 5 or so years we would have the exact same shit thread as this one, asking why everyone is so accepting of online requirements and no used games.

@cainetao11 said:

I love when you corporate pole slurpers try to give Sony a pass for what they do.

You know shit about me, so shut the **** up. Not even once did I excuse them for the requierement.

I own a 360 and do you want to know how much I payed for xbl? Zero.

Do you want to know how much I payed for microtransactions? Zero.

Do you want to know how much I payed for shitty DLC? Zero.

Do you want to know how much I payed for broken games? Zero.

If the majority of the gaming community acted like me, we would be in a customer heaven.

@darkangel115 said:

A lot of people seem to forget how sony fans got their nickname. it was their ability to milk people.

Oh boy, a fucking lemming acting all high and mighty.

Since OP will not answer, I will ask you. How many years did you pay for xbl?

lemmings don't own a PS4, sorry but not everyone that disagrees with you is a lemming.

I've been paying for XBL for around 10 years. I've been paying for PS+ for a little over a year now. I don't really see what your getting at?

Avatar image for papatrop
#130 Posted by PapaTrop (1792 posts) -

@X_CAPCOM_X: it's the consumers fault because the consumer pays for it which therefore implies some level of satisfaction with the practice.

It's not as if Xbox and PlayStation are the only systems to play games on. Consumers made the decision to pay for online. They're totally at fault here.

Avatar image for HalcyonScarlet
#131 Posted by HalcyonScarlet (8346 posts) -

@MonsieurX said:

@HalcyonScarlet said:

@MonsieurX said:

They don't have a choice

I disagree. They tried it on the PC and PC gamers said no. They then abandoned it.

"They" ?

MS GFWL

Avatar image for HalcyonScarlet
#132 Posted by HalcyonScarlet (8346 posts) -
@Krelian-co said:

@HalcyonScarlet said:

@MonsieurX said:

They don't have a choice

I disagree. They tried it on the PC and PC gamers said no. They then abandoned it.

pc had other options, consoles don't

Like DLC. If it was never accepted like it is, it would never have caught on.

Avatar image for KillzoneSnake
#133 Posted by KillzoneSnake (2441 posts) -

@LJS9502_basic said:

@KillzoneSnake said:

More and more casuals are coming into gaming. They a ready to pay for anything, even if it makes no sense. I'm going to stop paying for PS+ since it has no value. The free games are nice, but online is same as on free PS3... so wtf am i paying for? Laggy p2p and less active games. PS3 games had more people online. KZ, PES, all had more people online cuz it was free. Pretty soon we will have to pay for bullets we fire.

Or could it be because more people have a PS3....

Nope. KZSF actually is the best selling KZ ever, yet it was played less.

Avatar image for Eikichi-Onizuka
#134 Posted by Eikichi-Onizuka (9191 posts) -

I already pay for PS+ for the discounts, cloud storage(I play games at other people's houses a lot and need this), automatic updates, and the "free" games aren't a bad bonus either.

Avatar image for cainetao11
#135 Posted by cainetao11 (36491 posts) -

@thegreatgeneral said:
@cainetao11 said:

@thegreatgeneral:

Wait? The media didn't give MS shit? What fucking world were you on? Many editorials on IGN, here, and business pages raped the stupidity of those idiotic policies. Guess we read differently. And MS deserved every bit of bad press. I don't give a **** if you paid zero for your blow up boyfriend. Nobody cares what you do fella.

It took them quite a while to react while the gaming community reacted immediately and very strongly. When was that piece from IGN posted in correlation to the rumors and announcements? I remember that they were one of the last ones. On the other hand we had gaming journalist like Sessler trying to downplay that shit. I remember that he had a special stream where he defended MS to no end.

"If the majority of the gaming community acted like me, we would be in a customer heaven."------little narcissistic huh?

Maybe, but its the truth. I never payed for online, never baught shitty DLC or Microtransactions. Can you say the same about you?

You didn't blame the consumers in that first post, you blamed lems and defended PSN when it was pretty widely accepted that Live was a better network last gen.

LOL, thats exactly the argument lemmings did the whole last gen "you get what you pay for" or "At least we dont get hacked". You are the one defending MS right now. I do blame lemmings (are lemmings suddenly not consumers anymore?), because they made it clear to any corporation that its okay to have this anti consumer practices and they are even getting a pat on the head for it, like you just did.

Oh right, a few games had dedicated servers. Well Live has that now just about across the board and the network is still hokey. You're a cow. We all know it.

I never hide the fact that I prefered Sony, but that is only because they are the only ones worth a shit. And please, even MCC doesnt have dedis for the most part. MS simply lied about how every game will have dedis. What was the official line again? They will give devs free access to azure? Some dumb lemmings even believed that multiplats will have dedid on the xbone while not on PS4, talk about delusional.

--So now its 'it took them a while to give MS shit'? Well which is it?

--Yes I can say the same about me. I have never paid for anything I didn't value paying for. See that's where your argument plummets. You call it shitty DLC, online, blah, blah. But that's your assessment of its worth. Why does YOUR assessment of value apply to anyone other than you? Hence the narcissism. 80% of my time on XBL has been from 13 month cards given to me as a gift. So, I rarely paid for it. As for DLC? If I enjoyed a game enough like TLOU, **** yeah I bought the DLC.

--Oh its semantics time!! I am so sorry, you're right lemmings are consumers, and by mentioning them by name you were being fair and balanced to all consumers, Mr. O'Reilly. Great spin guy!!! Show me where I am defending MS, when I said: "they deserved all the bad press they got"; those idiotic policies; in the previous posts. Are you for real? Lemmings made it clear to corporations in the 21st century that they can capitalize on the consumer market anyway possible? So what has been going on for the previous 200+ years of capitalism? It was non profit?

--Well guess its all geography because I have said here for a week after MCC launched: here in NYC my friends and I have had little trouble getting in matches. Will need proof of your claims about the dedicated servers not existing. As far as they will give devs free access to Azure, can you prove they haven't offered that?

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#136 Posted by cainetao11 (36491 posts) -

@darkangel115: "lemmings don't own a PS4, sorry but not everyone that disagrees with you is a lemming.

I've been paying for XBL for around 10 years. I've been paying for PS+ for a little over a year now. I don't really see what your getting at?"

That's the basis of the non sense. As if my, yours, or his assessment of valuing something SHOULD be the way for everyone else. But that's where he is coming from.

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#137 Posted by Krelian-co (13274 posts) -

@HalcyonScarlet said:
@Krelian-co said:

@HalcyonScarlet said:

@MonsieurX said:

They don't have a choice

I disagree. They tried it on the PC and PC gamers said no. They then abandoned it.

pc had other options, consoles don't

Like DLC. If it was never accepted like it is, it would never have caught on.

let's be real here, microsoft had multiplayer hostage, people didn't have a choice but to pay, on pc they would just use another platform, program or method.

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#138 Posted by darkangel115 (4449 posts) -

@cainetao11 said:

@darkangel115: "lemmings don't own a PS4, sorry but not everyone that disagrees with you is a lemming.

I've been paying for XBL for around 10 years. I've been paying for PS+ for a little over a year now. I don't really see what your getting at?"

That's the basis of the non sense. As if my, yours, or his assessment of valuing something SHOULD be the way for everyone else. But that's where he is coming from.

I guess what your trying to say is that everyone has a different value of what something is worth to them. If that's what you are saying, then i agree with you. for example I think that a good game is worth 60 bucks, but many here feel 60 is too much for a game

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#139 Posted by cainetao11 (36491 posts) -

@darkangel115 said:

@cainetao11 said:

@darkangel115: "lemmings don't own a PS4, sorry but not everyone that disagrees with you is a lemming.

I've been paying for XBL for around 10 years. I've been paying for PS+ for a little over a year now. I don't really see what your getting at?"

That's the basis of the non sense. As if my, yours, or his assessment of valuing something SHOULD be the way for everyone else. But that's where he is coming from.

I guess what your trying to say is that everyone has a different value of what something is worth to them. If that's what you are saying, then i agree with you. for example I think that a good game is worth 60 bucks, but many here feel 60 is too much for a game

That has always been my stance. In particularly last gen when cows were flooding this board with threads going off on XBL fees, and people paying it. What a person feels is worth their own money is completely subjective to that individual. Do I wish there weren't fees? Of course. But that isn't the world we live in.

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#140 Posted by darkangel115 (4449 posts) -

@cainetao11 said:

@darkangel115 said:

@cainetao11 said:

@darkangel115: "lemmings don't own a PS4, sorry but not everyone that disagrees with you is a lemming.

I've been paying for XBL for around 10 years. I've been paying for PS+ for a little over a year now. I don't really see what your getting at?"

That's the basis of the non sense. As if my, yours, or his assessment of valuing something SHOULD be the way for everyone else. But that's where he is coming from.

I guess what your trying to say is that everyone has a different value of what something is worth to them. If that's what you are saying, then i agree with you. for example I think that a good game is worth 60 bucks, but many here feel 60 is too much for a game

That has always been my stance. In particularly last gen when cows were flooding this board with threads going off on XBL fees, and people paying it. What a person feels is worth their own money is completely subjective to that individual. Do I wish there weren't fees? Of course. But that isn't the world we live in.

If your getting a service, you should pay for it. At least that's my stance, but nowadays everyone wants everything for free. And paying the fee thing was just fanboy stupidity. Becuase all those people who talked shit are paying for it now with PSN+ but getting a worse service.

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#141 Posted by cainetao11 (36491 posts) -

@darkangel115:

But the response is, "the free games easily make it worth the price". A) the games aren't free, nor owned. B) that makes my point even further. They justify the cost by what they value in return. The poster you and I were discussing this with before asked what made Live worth the price before the games thrown in? Well I guess the fun one had playing online with friends. And some ardent cows may argue, most have accepted that PSN was not as good of a service as Live last gen. I rarely paid for it, because I wasn't playing online much. But a 13 month Gold card was a great birthday/Christmas gift.

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#142 Posted by darkangel115 (4449 posts) -

@cainetao11 said:

@darkangel115:

But the response is, "the free games easily make it worth the price". A) the games aren't free, nor owned. B) that makes my point even further. They justify the cost by what they value in return. The poster you and I were discussing this with before asked what made Live worth the price before the games thrown in? Well I guess the fun one had playing online with friends. And some ardent cows may argue, most have accepted that PSN was not as good of a service as Live last gen. I rarely paid for it, because I wasn't playing online much. But a 13 month Gold card was a great birthday/Christmas gift.

But most people would agree that the free games aren't worth the price at least. See on PS3 the online was free, PS+ was basically a game rental service of sorts. and yet with 80 million PS3s in the market, less then 2 million had PS+ while XBLG which was required for online gaming and didn't offer free games at the time, had 40 million or so gold subscribers. Now that PS4 charges for online access, subscriptions have more then doubled despite having about 20+ of the user base the PS3 had. So yeah cows justify the service based on "free games" here, but the majority of people don't give a dam about the free games offered by either company and instead the buy it to play CoD, GTA, and sports games and whatever else online.

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#143 Posted by DEadliNE-Zero0 (6607 posts) -

It wasn't on PC when M$ tried it with GFWL. However, pc being an open platform isn't controlled by some company.

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#144 Edited by tormentos (28697 posts) -

@darkangel115 said:

A lot of people seem to forget how sony fans got their nickname. it was their ability to milk people.

PS fans = cow because sony charge for memory cards and multi pad adapters.

Yet xbox fans don't = super cow when they were milk for online play since 2002 $50 a year.

Milk for a DVD remote to be able to play movies.

Been milk by over priced peripherals like $99 dollar 20GB disc,$99 wifi adapters,$60 price hike of xbox live,over priced micro transactions,pay wall for free apps like netflix,hulu and others.

If you actually analyze who has been more milked lemming have been wayyyyyyy more than cows,after all i didn't need to buy a new memory card each year or a damn multipad adapter,but to play online you need it to pay $50 each year when every were else it was free.

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#145 Posted by darkangel115 (4449 posts) -

@tormentos said:

@darkangel115 said:

A lot of people seem to forget how sony fans got their nickname. it was their ability to milk people.

PS fans = cow because sony charge for memory cards and multi pad adapters.

Yet xbox fans don't = super cow when they were milk for online play since 2002 $50 a year.

Milk for a DVD remote to be able to play movies.

Been milk by over priced peripherals like $99 dollar 20GB disc,$99 wifi adapters,$60 price hike of xbox live,over priced micro transactions,pay wall for free apps like netflix,hulu and others.

If you actually analyze who has been more milked lemming have been wayyyyyyy more than cows,after all i didn't need to buy a new memory card each year or a damn multipad adapter,but to play online you need it to pay $50 each year when every were else it was free.

lol oh poor tormentos. I didn't come up with the nicknames lol. But it surely goes back to the PS2 xbox days (if not earlier) where the xbox had a built in hard drive and broadband and sony was still selling memory cards and then sold a hard drive and dial up modem add on to the PS2. Also there was no other place to play online really back then. especially on broadband. It was considered a risk because a lot of people didn't have broadband when it was launched but it allowed for the best online experience and a unified network, something sony didn't even have launched until several years later. So yeah online was charged by MS from the start, but that was because it was the only way to play online and online gaming wasn't nearly as big as it is now, but MS helped usher in that age. Sure MS has done its fair share of milking with accessories during the 360 age, I don't deny any facts because I'm not biased towards a system like you.

This gen, who is doing the milking then in your opinion?

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#146 Posted by cainetao11 (36491 posts) -

@darkangel115 said:

@cainetao11 said:

@darkangel115:

But the response is, "the free games easily make it worth the price". A) the games aren't free, nor owned. B) that makes my point even further. They justify the cost by what they value in return. The poster you and I were discussing this with before asked what made Live worth the price before the games thrown in? Well I guess the fun one had playing online with friends. And some ardent cows may argue, most have accepted that PSN was not as good of a service as Live last gen. I rarely paid for it, because I wasn't playing online much. But a 13 month Gold card was a great birthday/Christmas gift.

But most people would agree that the free games aren't worth the price at least. See on PS3 the online was free, PS+ was basically a game rental service of sorts. and yet with 80 million PS3s in the market, less then 2 million had PS+ while XBLG which was required for online gaming and didn't offer free games at the time, had 40 million or so gold subscribers. Now that PS4 charges for online access, subscriptions have more then doubled despite having about 20+ of the user base the PS3 had. So yeah cows justify the service based on "free games" here, but the majority of people don't give a dam about the free games offered by either company and instead the buy it to play CoD, GTA, and sports games and whatever else online.

Oh no doubt my friend. I said many times last gen, hate MS and Live gold all you want, it was genius business. That is the purpose. To earn profit. Now many will cry its anti consumer and blah, blah but it isn't illegal. And if it is anti consumer, why don't so many people stop wasting the typing on forums and start petitioning the business and trade regulators to have these so called anti consumer practices made illegal?

What was genius about Gold was MP is a compelling reason to pay. That is why "free" games didn't equal the competitions subscriber numbers. But the absolute genius of Sony's business strategy was hooking the cows with the games, and like many of us predicted, they tacked the multiplayer onto it this gen. Very sly, but lets face it the Japanese are known for stealth.

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#148 Posted by MonsieurX (38982 posts) -

@HalcyonScarlet said:

@MonsieurX said:

@HalcyonScarlet said:

@MonsieurX said:

They don't have a choice

I disagree. They tried it on the PC and PC gamers said no. They then abandoned it.

"They" ?

MS GFWL

MS never charged for GFWL

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#149 Edited by HalcyonScarlet (8346 posts) -

@MonsieurX said:

@HalcyonScarlet said:

@MonsieurX said:

@HalcyonScarlet said:

@MonsieurX said:

They don't have a choice

I disagree. They tried it on the PC and PC gamers said no. They then abandoned it.

"They" ?

MS GFWL

MS never charged for GFWL

I think they did right at the beginning unless I'm mistaken. But it wasn't long before they dropped it.

@Krelian-co said:

@HalcyonScarlet said:
@Krelian-co said:

@HalcyonScarlet said:

@MonsieurX said:

They don't have a choice

I disagree. They tried it on the PC and PC gamers said no. They then abandoned it.

pc had other options, consoles don't

Like DLC. If it was never accepted like it is, it would never have caught on.

let's be real here, microsoft had multiplayer hostage, people didn't have a choice but to pay, on pc they would just use another platform, program or method.

If enough people chose not to, it wouldn't have caught on. If MS wasn't getting the online turn out, they would have had to rethink their business model for online.

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#150 Posted by Krelian-co (13274 posts) -

@HalcyonScarlet said:

@MonsieurX said:

@HalcyonScarlet said:

@MonsieurX said:

@HalcyonScarlet said:

@MonsieurX said:

They don't have a choice

I disagree. They tried it on the PC and PC gamers said no. They then abandoned it.

"They" ?

MS GFWL

MS never charged for GFWL

I think they did right at the beginning unless I'm mistaken. But it wasn't long before they dropped it.

@Krelian-co said:

@HalcyonScarlet said:
@Krelian-co said:

@HalcyonScarlet said:

@MonsieurX said:

They don't have a choice

I disagree. They tried it on the PC and PC gamers said no. They then abandoned it.

pc had other options, consoles don't

Like DLC. If it was never accepted like it is, it would never have caught on.

let's be real here, microsoft had multiplayer hostage, people didn't have a choice but to pay, on pc they would just use another platform, program or method.

If enough people chose not to, it wouldn't have caught on. If MS wasn't getting the online turn out, they would have had to rethink their business model for online.

hi, reality is calling you, for that to happen most people would have to go years without playing multiplayer, not going to happen.