Why do good games like Bayonetta not sell well?

Granted, if the franchise sold better, it would be multiplat. But there other game as well that despite being really awesome games, just don't sell very well. Why is that, SW? Is it because of marketing? Is it because of the genre? Are people afraid of trying something new?

Its combination of things. The genre or more accurately the style of the game has only about maybe 3-5 million critical mass install base my guess. Of course opportunity to expand is always there. release timing and exclusivity does not help shooting into that small target. Its best if its exclusive to be console exclusive but with a pc release as well, preferably a good port. Switch can help it sell by giving it couple month as the next and only game to get for your switch expanding that small genre target.

The genre is very niche. I bet that's the main reason.

Personally I did buy Bayonetta 1&2, but it turns out I don't like them much. Wouldn't call them bad games by any means, but they weren't really for me. They're silly and over the top in a way I didn't enjoy. Too... messy for my tastes. That coupled with lots of cutscenes and QTEs and I just couldn't play them further.

Bayonetta 1 PS3 version sold about 2:1 when compared to the Xbox 360 version... yes, the completely butchered 30fps version riddled with techincal problems sold the double of the far superior 60fps 360 version!

The first Bayonetta had terrible buzz around it because of that. Many people, me included, didnt bought the game at release because of that...

so, in conclusion, if Sega/Platinum hadnt butchered the PS3 version of the game it may have sold way better then it did and thus there was no need for Nintendo to "save" it. It's obvious the main market for the genre is on playstation consoles. Sucesses like Nier: Automata and Nioh (that still has hack'n'slash elements beneath its combat design) are prove of that. DMC4 also sold better on PS3 than on X360 despite the fact the 360 playerbase was way higher then the PS3 playerbase at the time of its release.

It's a shame, really. I know Nintendo funded Bayo2 and now 3 and all that, and that has to be commended, but one cant help but wonder that if the PS3 version hadnt been so bad, maybe history could have been different and now we could be playing Bayo2 and soon Bayo3 without the need of having to buy a Nintendo console for them...

but its how this business works and one has to live with it. Now I'm considering buying a Switch at the end of its lifecycle, when its really cheap, just to play these two games

It's just another movie game. It has characters and cutscenes. And you just flip around until you go into witch mode (cinematic easy mode). It's also aimed at virgins.

I think the main reason is that story and speaking generically, the context of a game can be very persuasive for many gamers. In that regard, it's really not about gameplay as to why the series isn't that appealing. It has more to do with the eccentricity and flamboyancy of the visuals and abstraction regarding witches, angels and demons that confuse, elude or put potential players off from trying the games.

Story and visual context speak very loudly in this medium. Not everyone is willing to try a game about a woman who dances to summon dragons with her hair.

It also happens to be on a platform now that are very reserved about trying anything that isn't directly involving Nintendo characters. I have seen comments about it myself when Miiverse was a thing; people refused to try 3rd party games.

lol, you have no idea what you are talking about xD

I guess it all comes down to this here. They did a bad job on the first entry and if people don't care for the first entry, they rarely care for it's sequels. Sure it has a cult following and it is fun to play, but too many people scared away by the first title.

@SolidGame_basic:

Simple, hack & slash isn't popular anymore.

Define popular? Nier: Automata sold over 2 million and is out for less than a year. When Persona 5 reached that many sales people were happy it does so well.

@ArchoNils2:

I never played Nier Automata so I can't say. Was it even hack and slash?

If a game sells extremely well, then it's good.

Otherwise it's not, personal opinion is irrelevant, the masses will tell us if it's great or complete shit.

Because Platinum's been burning up their street cred. For every one good game they make, they turn out 3 that are garbage. People are getting hip.

quadrillions of flys can't be wrong, eat shit

Does Bayonetta as a franchise has universial appeal?

Yes, it was. The RPG elements were minimal. It's mainly an hack'n'slash with decent combat. Still pales in comparison with the likes of DMC/NG/Bayo

Not gritty enough.

I've seen many many say that games have to look realistic or serious to appeal to them.

I didn't think it was good....I returned it.

Good games are like the truth: no one wants to hear it. They'd rather be told sugar-coated lies.

People would rather play mass-marketed garbage because they're told it is good than play a legitimately good game that challenges them. You don't want to be the one in the group that played Superhot when everyone is talking about CoD. Well, I would, but most people wouldn't.

Yeah, this could be. I never bought the game because I'm just not a fan of hack and slash games. Might be a great game, but I don't actually personally know many people that enjoy these types of games.

@DragonfireXZ95: As far as this branch of action games go, Bayonetta games have a very deep combat system with cool enemy designs that have great attack sequences themselves. It's all about the depth and how aware of it the game is in terms of awarding you for knowing the game's systems. Player expression is great, skill ceiling very high and super rewarding to get better at. :)

Precisely. Great video. Hack'n'slash is one of those genres with some of the highest skill ceillings to be good at, having in mind that "being good at =/= beating the game". One can suck at Bayonetta or DMC and still beat the game. The combo scores and building is what devides the good from the bad player in the genre

@Vatusus: Totally. You can get through Bayonetta with all stone trophies but that would be missing the point, really. It's much more about progressing at your skills and going for scores; the systems in place understand this and reward you accordingly. It's impressive. It's Hideki Kamiya. :P

On a slight side, Turbo Button is one of the best channels in producing clever and concise videos on game design in video games. His understanding extends beyond just action games.

They're niche games in an oversaturated market, and the casuals will go with known franchises to play it safe.

Niche games, let's be honest and this is my biggest criticism with gamers "Cod sucks! There is no innovation in gaming, AAA games are dead no fun!" But then when developers try something different, 50% of the time games tank.

Also if a game gets a 7 in gamespot they are like "Games sucks flops horrible" which makes experimenting even more difficult.

Bayonetta is a gamers' game. Only gamers get the nuances of why its good. When you look past the weird setting and story theres pretty deep mechanics and fun gameplay.

For the average person, its a weird Japanese action game. And weird Japanese stuff tunes most people outside of this forum out.

Same thing is going to happen to Death Stranding. Kojima is pretentiously weird.

I bought Bayo2 based on the hype. I’ve never felt more uncomfortable playing a game than I did Bayo2. I was legitimately worried my wife was gonna walk in and see me playing that creepy ass game. I’m no SJW or anything, but games like that are pretty gross. I can’t even get over the rapey/pedo vibes in the Persona games. Y’all need help! And Jesus!

Bayo OG sold decently from what I recall; Bayo 2 suffered from being relegated to the Wii U and - no offense to Nintendo - but it’s not a game that jives with their core demographic.

It's one thing to make a game different, it's a whole other thing for that difference to be good. I personally didn't like Bayonetta. Also don't act as if it was the whole gaming world saying that, we are just a vocal minority.

Probably shot themselves in the foot when they released an unplayable version of the game and no PC version

Not good first impressions.

That's because every game Platinum games made lacks marketing . Marketing is what that makes your game successful. (Okami despite being one of the best game of PS2 sold horribly because of Bad marketing)

Because most gamers are stupid and buy games from EA and Ubisoft.

because its incredibly cringy?

The game is fantastic, but its theme is horrendous

Apply the gameplay to something abit more.. memorable and not bat-shit embarrasing and the game will sell.

@MBirdy88: Called it. :)

That's what I detailed in my first response.

Cause it doesnt cater to casual audiences

Well your not wrong.

But its not the deep abstract nature or concepts of witches and demons, its the complete and utter exaggeration of every aspect to the point where I feel it comes from a 14 year old "Otaku" or whatever the hell they are called.. everything about her and the other characters just.... ugh.

It's just ... everything about its visual/animation/audio/cheesey dialogue offends my senses.

My ideal would be Bayonetta gameplay on the Castlevania reboot... both are opposites in this regard.

they are on nintendo consoles.

@MBirdy88: Not deep but definitely abstract. It's as you described weird and it doesn't care to make any sense of how weird and flamboyant it all is. Nobody plays these games for their story.

It's all about the gameplay in Bayonetta. That's the fun part.

I can give you reasons, but first do you have official numbers for how much it sold?

Because it was a terrible port job?

And it surpassed a million on PS3 alone despite its problems... not that much but still far from "poorly"

Not what SEGA and their investors thought.

Still better then what Bayo2 ended up selling on the WiiU... maybe Sega was right after all

Ninja Gaiden always sold relatively poorly and it's the best hack and slash series (sans Yaiba and vanilla 3)

I do wonder though why the genre is niche. What are people afraid of that they don't play DMC/Bayonetta/Ninja Gaiden.

Is it the difficulty? Because we all started playing those games at some point and beat them. One of them was our first and we still did it. The genre is not too complex. What is the barrier that keeps people from playing these games? I don't know.

@KungfuKitten: The genre takes a certain level of skill and focus that doesn't have a very large appeal - look at it's cousin the fighting genre which has similar outcomes.

- Ninja Gaiden 2 on the 360 , which is arguably one of the best exclusives the system had - barely sold 1 million copies in ten years.

The difficulty and skill level are huge turnoffs to the casual crowd.

This is true. If they didn't butcher the PS3 version this franchise might have had a different path. Im sure there was all kinds of bad worth of mouth about the PS3 version and yet it STILL outsold the 360 version 2:1. If it was a 60fps perfect version, as it should have been, it might have sold 3 or 4 times. It was mind boggling, really.

But despite whatever went wrong with the original, Nintendo was the ones who stepped up and "saved" the franchise. Good for them for doing it again, even though Bayonetta 2 was a commercial flop. Switch needs games, so this was a good move for them IMO. Even if it pretty much guarantees it as a niche game.

It's because not everyone thinks its awesome. Entertainment is subjective and nobody is wrong for liking or disliking what they do.