Why did Moba fail on consoles?

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uninspiredcup

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uninspiredcup  Online

Poll Why did Moba fail on consoles? (42 votes)

Too deep 26%
Controls 48%
Not Call Of Duty 7%
Some other reason (explain) 19%

My friends, moba is currently the largest, most popular multiplayer genre in the world. Titles such as League or Legends, Heroes Of Neweeath, that world of warcraft game and DOTA 2 (90 metacritic) currently have player bases sitting in the 10's of millions.

Yet, after multiple attempts, both third person shooters, first person shooters and traditional isometric attempts, have failed on consoles. No matter what developers and publishers, just doesn't seem to be a crowd for it on consoles.

Personally, I take this as factually based proof console gamers have 0 interest in titles with learning curves and team work, which is why Titanfall is currently a non game.

Perhaps if we work together we can figure out, as a team.

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Salt_The_Fries

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#1 Salt_The_Fries
Member since 2008 • 12480 Posts

I don't think there were ever any proper MOBA titles on consoles to begin with. I'd say most things fail on consoles anyway, even if I AM PREDOMINANTLY a console gamer. There aren't even such tantalizing indie games for them in store, like The Forest, Satellite Reign or plethora of others, even if there are still some decent indie console games in general.

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Muffin2020

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#2 Muffin2020
Member since 2013 • 534 Posts

Would a MOBA have to first released on a console before it would be counted as a fail?

You say that attempts have been made but name no MOBA games.

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#3  Edited By bobbetybob
Member since 2005 • 19370 Posts

...there's been like one MOBA on consoles. Anyway they'll never work because a mouse pointer is pretty much the only control method that fits a MOBA and if you try and cram it into a controller you're removing a lot of the depth the games offer which is part of the appeal. The WiiU gamepad could work but I doubt anyone would bother making a MOBA for WiiU.

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uninspiredcup

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#4 uninspiredcup  Online
Member since 2013 • 58631 Posts

@bobbetybob said:

...there's been like one MOBA on consoles. Anyway they'll never work because a mouse pointer is pretty much the only control method that fits a MOBA and if you try and cram it into a controller you're removing a lot of the depth the games offer which is part of the appeal. The WiiU gamepad could work but I doubt anyone would bother making a MOBA for WiiU.

But Diablo is better on consoles. Halo proved FPS could be better on consoles as well.

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NFJSupreme

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#5 NFJSupreme
Member since 2005 • 6605 Posts

1)they are better on pc

2)they are cheaper on pc (no online fees)

3)they run on any pc basically so you don't need an upgraded pc or console to play them.

4) the controls for these games are better on pc

Basically if want to play a moba you can and you will and don't have to wait for it to come to console.

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lostrib

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#6 lostrib
Member since 2009 • 49999 Posts

probably for the same reason RTS games have pretty much failed on console

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deactivated-5bda06edf37ee

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#7 deactivated-5bda06edf37ee
Member since 2010 • 4675 Posts

for the same reason why Civilization (or any other RTS for that matter) doesn't exist on consoles. you need a mouse. you CAN move a pointer with analog stick too, but... it's just as frustrating as playing FPS games on a touchscreen device. you have won when your hardware is still intact after 10 minutes of gaming.

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NFJSupreme

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#8 NFJSupreme
Member since 2005 • 6605 Posts

@uninspiredcup: just because something is possible on console does not mean it's better. Fps are not better on console halo just showed that it was possible to have a great Fps on console.

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PyratRum

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#9 PyratRum
Member since 2013 • 778 Posts

They're haven't really any attempt besides Awesomenauts, which is great, and Guardians of Middle-Earth, which is shit.

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#10  Edited By Wasdie  Moderator
Member since 2003 • 53622 Posts

There would have to be a proper MOBA game on the consoles before you could make such a statement.

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#11 Boddicker
Member since 2012 • 4458 Posts

@Wasdie said:

There would have to be a proper MOBA game on the consoles before you could make such a statement.

this.

A port of Dota2 or LoL would probably be DOA because Sony and MS utterly refuse to release a 1st party k/m and make it mandatory for these type of games. Maybe it shouldn't be mandatory, but do you know how much of a pain in the ass MOBA's are with a controller?

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deactivated-5a44ec138c1e6

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#12 deactivated-5a44ec138c1e6
Member since 2013 • 2638 Posts

@uninspiredcup: I wanted to bring up this topic but since I still don’t have 500 posts. :(

I’m glad you could point this out.

MOBA’s are definitely on of the most played games on the planet.

Teamwork is actually needed in any Multiplayer game.

But One of the main things that I see on PC is that the Community is extremely divided and it makes PC gaming feel filthy sometimes with people cracking games nowadays on PC just pushes me away from PC because the developers aren’t getting they’re money, GTA V is just one of the main reasons. Another thing is how fast a new game or rarely new game gets hacked to crap and becomes unplayable when someone destroys the whole team by just one click of the mouse. I’m more a fan of DayZ or Rust at the moment but I was happy to hear that DayZ is coming to consoles in the future. Consoles do have hackers and all but it’s mostly people with a .............PC. All in all Console is just a much cleaner experience. I know I’m getting of topic here a bit but bear with me...

I use to play PC multiplayer a lot....ranging from COD back in 2007-2009 and all the way to Battlefield Bad Company 2 to Battlefield 4 recently. I’ll tell you this that there are way more players on PC that lack the skill to compete with other PC players in fact the beast elite players are the minority and that’s why PC feels way too easy.....but yet fun in some way..... It’s not the case on console. One reason why I can say this is because I have been playing games on all platforms. Controller/ Mouse and keyboard. I know a good player when I see one.

I don’t want to sound like I’m bragging that I’m awesome at FPS.

When I play BF3 on Xbox 360 which I am at the moment because BF4 is a mess right now...... The average player actually plays Conquest or Rush unlike on PC where it’s TeamDeath Match Noshar Canals the whole time which is absolutely mindless. I’m not saying that there aren’t players on PC playing other game modes. This is just from my experience. If I go to the server browser and search for a TDM in the US or Europe the Noshar Canals are always full and there are literally more than 30-40 of them that are full. Not counting the others that have one open spot or two open spots.

I don’t know if you have played Battlefield but we all know the 64 man servers are insane and that’s why the big maps are awesome on PC.

That’s one thing that I wanted on Xbox 360 or PS3 because it would be so awesome on there as well.

Team Death Match Game Mode is the thing that is killing team strategy because everybody goes lone wolf. It’s not the system but the game mode that is being played.

If I play League Of Legends it would be stupid to try and gank a tower turret alone or playing support with the wrong character.... You have to play with the other players and help one another to push through.........

TDM is entirely different.

Objective based gameplay is a lot different and you should know this.

COD has become stupid and Search and Destroy has been ruined in the newer CODs and that’s why they all suck now.

I don’t want to be rude but I hate it when people say the Console players are all COD and mindless. When from my experience I can contradict.

Another thing is the controls of course but I think it will change with the Mouse/ keyboard integration on the next gens.

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deactivated-5cd08b1605da1

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#13  Edited By deactivated-5cd08b1605da1
Member since 2012 • 9317 Posts

Was there ever a MOBA game on consoles?

Anyway, those type of games and RTS are meant to be played with kb/m. With controllers its just unintuitive. It has nothing to do with console gamers not being interested or not "smart" enough to enjoy games with high learning curve (actually that point is just stupid being that most Fighters and Hack'n'Slash games or games like Demon's/Dark Souls that have a high learning curve enjoy a tremedous success on consoles). That point is moot

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MonsieurX

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#14 MonsieurX
Member since 2008 • 39858 Posts

Needs actually one to fail

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#15  Edited By CroidX
Member since 2013 • 1561 Posts

@acp_45:

yea because developers for Sega didn't get any money from selling more pc games than consoles?

And Day Z was never confirm to be coming to console

And too much irrelevant bs that has nothing to do with this thread

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uninspiredcup

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#16 uninspiredcup  Online
Member since 2013 • 58631 Posts

My friends, it's surprising to see more people aren't agreeing that it's due to complexity.

As stated in the initial post, Diablo works fine. Xcom works fine. A redesign would allow the titles to work fine. Likewise, MOBO's have and do exist. "too complex" appears to be the factually correct answer.

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Sokol4ever

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#17 Sokol4ever
Member since 2007 • 6717 Posts

I play extensively Dota 2 and I'm primary PlayStation gamer. I don't believe we have really seen any proper Moba game on the console to be honest with you.

Diablo 3 for example works fantastically on the console and I see no reason something like LoL or Dota couldn't work either.

Maybe in the future, right now it seems rpgs, survival horror, and MMO style genres are picking up strength on next generation.

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#18  Edited By Wasdie  Moderator
Member since 2003 • 53622 Posts

@Boddicker said:

@Wasdie said:

There would have to be a proper MOBA game on the consoles before you could make such a statement.

this.

A port of Dota2 or LoL would probably be DOA because Sony and MS utterly refuse to release a 1st party k/m and make it mandatory for these type of games. Maybe it shouldn't be mandatory, but do you know how much of a pain in the ass MOBA's are with a controller?

They are a pain in the ass with the controls you're familiar with. A console MOBA would need a different design that plays well with a controller. From camera control to the skills/magic for each hero would have to be built around a dual analog setup. It's doable, just nobody has taken the time to do it because the market is thriving on the PC so well there doesn't seem to be a reason to risk it on the console.

MOBAs themselves aren't all that complex, which is why they make for such good competition and are really popular.

I think there could be an audience on the console, but no publisher is willing to risk it. Instead they would rather keep pumping out more shooters as that's what console gamers seem to eat up.

Poor console gamers are really at the mercy of what the publishers believe will sell. Maybe with the self publishing on the PS4 some indie games will show that console gamers play more than just the standard few genres, but I don't have any faith in the quality of indie games.

We're starting to see some MOBA elements spill into other genres. Titanfall includes the NPCs which are basically cannon fodder and used to buff up your character to get your titan quicker. I think we'll start seeing more of those mechanics in games.

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#19 Boddicker
Member since 2012 • 4458 Posts

@Wasdie said:

@Boddicker said:

@Wasdie said:

There would have to be a proper MOBA game on the consoles before you could make such a statement.

this.

A port of Dota2 or LoL would probably be DOA because Sony and MS utterly refuse to release a 1st party k/m and make it mandatory for these type of games. Maybe it shouldn't be mandatory, but do you know how much of a pain in the ass MOBA's are with a controller?

They are a pain in the ass with the controls you're familiar with. A console MOBA would need a different design that plays well with a controller. From camera control to the skills/magic for each hero would have to be built around a dual analog setup. It's doable, just nobody has taken the time to do it because the market is thriving on the PC so well there doesn't seem to be a reason to risk it on the console.

MOBAs themselves aren't all that complex, which is why they make for such good competition and are really popular.

I think there could be an audience on the console, but no publisher is willing to risk it. Instead they would rather keep pumping out more shooters as that's what console gamers seem to eat up.

Poor console gamers are really at the mercy of what the publishers believe will sell. Maybe with the self publishing on the PS4 some indie games will show that console gamers play more than just the standard few genres, but I don't have any faith in the quality of indie games.

We're starting to see some MOBA elements spill into other genres. Titanfall includes the NPCs which are basically cannon fodder and used to buff up your character to get your titan quicker. I think we'll start seeing more of those mechanics in games.

You're probably right about MOBA controls, though the k/m controversy also spills over into the RTS category.

I too have little faith in indie games, but maybe some RTS and MOBA will get popular enough on console to pick up a publisher for a sequel. Tropico 5 is a definite step in the right direction for more PC specific genres coming to console, and one would think with the record breaking kickstarter for Star Citizen that interest in space flight sims is far from dead.

............I want the 90's back :.-(

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#20  Edited By Jankarcop
Member since 2011 • 11058 Posts

Unlike PC, not all genres can work on consoles for several reasons:

1. Not as diverse of a player base. PC has ADD CoD kiddies to elite RTS pro-players.

2. Limited controls. Probably the biggest factor.

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#21 V3rciS
Member since 2011 • 2241 Posts

I'd say controls easily... you need a mouse to play that kind of games, same way you don't see many RTS games on consoles, if any at all.

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deactivated-5acbb9993d0bd

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#22 deactivated-5acbb9993d0bd
Member since 2012 • 12449 Posts

@uninspiredcup said:

@bobbetybob said:

...there's been like one MOBA on consoles. Anyway they'll never work because a mouse pointer is pretty much the only control method that fits a MOBA and if you try and cram it into a controller you're removing a lot of the depth the games offer which is part of the appeal. The WiiU gamepad could work but I doubt anyone would bother making a MOBA for WiiU.

But Diablo is better on consoles. Halo proved FPS could be better on consoles as well.

.... your alittle behind the times, the PC version has been overhauled in a similar fashion now and the expansion is in beta.

so no, diablo is not better on consoles.

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deactivated-5bda06edf37ee

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#23 deactivated-5bda06edf37ee
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@uninspiredcup said:

But Diablo is better on consoles. Halo proved FPS could be better on consoles as well.

awww crap.... you failed on both statements, sry :/

thank you for trying, though! please come again!

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#24 wis3boi
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#25  Edited By EducatingU_PCMR
Member since 2013 • 1581 Posts

ADHD consolite CoD kids can't handle the complexity.


They just want to pull the trigger and expect a kill.

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#26 uninspiredcup  Online
Member since 2013 • 58631 Posts

@EducatingU_PCMR said:

ADHD consolite CoD kids can't handle the complexity.

They just want to pull the trigger and expect a kill.

Excellent point my friend.

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#27  Edited By Jankarcop
Member since 2011 • 11058 Posts

@uninspiredcup said:

My friends, it's surprising to see more people aren't agreeing that it's due to complexity.

As stated in the initial post, Diablo works fine. Xcom works fine. A redesign would allow the titles to work fine. Likewise, MOBO's have and do exist. "too complex" appears to be the factually correct answer.

Diablo3 sold terribly on consoles, and scored lower. Anyone who has played it for a long period of time knows why. The controls and camera angle get annoying after a while, and the mob density/difficulty is lowered to compensate for slower aiming.

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#28  Edited By R4gn4r0k
Member since 2004 • 45988 Posts

Lol, MOBAs are the CODs of PC

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#29 Jag85
Member since 2005 • 19373 Posts

Controls. MOBA's like DOTA work best with keyboard & mouse.

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#30 Jankarcop
Member since 2011 • 11058 Posts

@R4gn4r0k said:

Lol, MOBAs are the CODs of PC

Only they actually require skill and have a serious competative scene

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#31 MonsieurX
Member since 2008 • 39858 Posts
@Jag85 said:

Controls. MOBA's like DOTA work best with keyboard & mouse.

They said the same about D3

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#32 Jag85
Member since 2005 • 19373 Posts

@MonsieurX said:
@Jag85 said:

Controls. MOBA's like DOTA work best with keyboard & mouse.

They said the same about D3

I've only played it on PC, so can't tell how it works on consoles, but an action RPG like Diablo III shouldn't be too difficult to pull off on a console. MOBA and RTS games, on the other hand, are a very different story.

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#33 blangenakker
Member since 2006 • 3240 Posts

Actually there are two MOBA's on consoles, Awesomenauts and Monday Night Combat. Things is both games are probably dead on consoles and Awesomenauts is still active on PC.

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#34  Edited By Roler42
Member since 2013 • 1067 Posts

The only proper MOBA i've seen on the consoles has been awesomenauts and it's kinda useless to mention since people love to pretend indies don't exist LOL

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#35 Midnightshade29
Member since 2008 • 6003 Posts

@uninspiredcup: for me it has nothing to do with controls and more to do with the genre itself. For one there is no single player... That is a huge turnoff for me as rts, turn based and 4x games would work fine on a console, they have single player though mobs doesn't, and as such I won't play them on PC either. Why would a console gamer play a multiplayer only game for a unfamiliar genre with no single player.

Also Moab is known for dousch bag épéen pricks. Why would I want to play with that community? I hated Warcraft 3 and it's focus on heroes. I preferred building up massive armies in rts, and as such Moab is based off of Warcraft 3 model.

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#36 KittenNose
Member since 2014 • 2470 Posts

Monday Night Combat was a console moba and a blast. To be fair though, Super Monday Night Combat was much better and PC only.

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#39  Edited By PrincessGomez92
Member since 2013 • 5747 Posts

Your trolling is so terrible, SNIPER.

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#40 TheShensolidus
Member since 2013 • 224 Posts

Before Halo, this very same post could've been made about shooters on consoles, with the same points and arguments, same people drawing lines in the sand between PC & 'consolites', and they'd be right. However, back before designers corrected the design problems inherent to shooters on consoles, PC gamer's weren't decrying shooters and what they are or calling them 'non-games', so I find this post and some of the people in it to be quite insulting. Still, i'll tell ya what is going on here.

First, within the next 5 years, a MOBA will hit BIG on consoles. No, its fundamental viewmodel and playstyle will not change radically; when you see it, it's going to look almost identical to League vs. looking like Smite because its 3rd person. MOBA's are derived from RTS games, and RTS is a genre that still has one of the worst design transitions from going from KB+M to a standard twin-stick controller. It's not that it's impossible, its just that it needs to be designed properly.

Almost every RTS games seen on consoles last generation (the majority of which were from EA) held fast to the old design idea for RTS of Radial menu's for building options, Right stick moves camera, left stick moves cursor. There are a TON of problems with this, and in an RTS environment moving the camera around a greater map quickly is far more important than just selecting a bunch of units and getting them to move to an area. Because no one has solved the design transition issues means a genre like moba, which is essentially an RTS, gets lost in the shuffle. But, that doesn't mean it won't happen.

Sure, there will be some concessions that need to be made. But if you look at how Blizzard has streamlined Heroes of the Storm, then look at how they streamlined 1-character combat capability in a isometric-camera view on consoles in Diablo 3, we start seeing the ground work for what could be future MOBAs on those platforms.

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#41 GarGx1
Member since 2011 • 10934 Posts

MOBA's are just a sub genre of RTS games, DOTA is originally a mod for Warcraft III. This leaves it with the same reasons for failure, or should that be lack of good titles and support, as RTS games on console.

Analogue controllers don't work, they are too slow and inaccurate.

A lack of interest that comes from a lack of understanding from the community at large. MMO's will face the same problem as this generation progresses and more of them become available and accessible to PS4 and Xbox One owners

A large casual gaming fraternity that want quick plug and play satisfaction. A large proportion of console gamers want to switch on the console and shoot things and/or drive fast cars from the couch, without any real thought (The console equivalent of Facebook gamers on PC)