Why are light sabers always so FAIL in star wars games?

Am I the only one bothered by there being no starwars games where light sabers act like light sabers? In every starwars game the light sabers act essentially like sticks that you club people with. Aren't light sabers supposed to cut? And it can't be for violence reasons, there's no blood, the wound is cauterized. And in the movies (which are kid friendly) you see storm troopers get sliced up all the time.

I'd mostly agree, except I really liked Jedi Outcast's light sabers. You could throw them and i just felt they were a little more satisfying than a club. Not to mention the ability to use force powers. Always loved force-pushing people off of edges lol:twisted:skiinian_basic

Jedi Knight did a good job.

But making lightsabers strong poses a very difficult design decision, especially if the majority of your combatants arent Lightsaber users themselves. The nature of the Star Wars universe makes no grades or levels of lightsabers judging one is stronger than the other. Even if it were the case, each lightsaber is meant and is special for each owner making them unlikely to switch over.

To keep it true to the Star Wars universe, you are essentially giving the player the strongest weapon in the game at the start. You can delay giving him a lightsaber at all like KOTOR did, but that really cheapens the entire Star Wars experience of playing a Jedi.

The entirety of the game has to be done knowing the player will never upgrade or change his weapons under most circumstances. Thats pretty hard to do whether its an RPG or an action game since you've taken away the easiest form of character progression.

The easiest option is to make light sabers somewhat weak with force powers being very strong. Since that is something that is easy to make multiple levels of and create various types split between dark and light, its a heck of alot easier designing games around that.

I think that most developers would fail attempting to do what you are asking for. While it might be a bit more faithful to the Star Wars universe and give a better feeling to light sabers, it would probably end up as a boring repetative game, or an extremely frustrating game where the enemies and environments are designed to be cheap against you considering the strength of your saber.

You guys should play Star Wars: Jedi Knight: Dark Forces 2.

It was easily the greatest Star Wars game ever conceived.

Jedi Knight did a good job.

But making lightsabers strong poses a very difficult design decision, especially if the majority of your combatants arent Lightsaber users themselves. The nature of the Star Wars universe makes no grades or levels of lightsabers judging one is stronger than the other. Even if it were the case, each lightsaber is meant and is special for each owner making them unlikely to switch over.

To keep it true to the Star Wars universe, you are essentially giving the player the strongest weapon in the game at the start. You can delay giving him a lightsaber at all like KOTOR did, but that really cheapens the entire Star Wars experience of playing a Jedi.

The entirety of the game has to be done knowing the player will never upgrade or change his weapons under most circumstances. Thats pretty hard to do whether its an RPG or an action game since you've taken away the easiest form of character progression.

The easiest option is to make light sabers somewhat weak with force powers being very strong. Since that is something that is easy to make multiple levels of and create various types split between dark and light, its a heck of alot easier designing games around that.

I think that most developers would fail attempting to do what you are asking for. While it might be a bit more faithful to the Star Wars universe and give a better feeling to light sabers, it would probably end up as a boring repetative game, or an extremely frustrating game where the enemies and environments are designed to be cheap against you considering the strength of your saber.

XaosII

A game does not need weapon upgrades to be an RPG. Jedi do get stronger and more skilled. That should be more than enough RPG elements for a jedi game. Also, while most enemies aren't a threat to a jedi, there are plenty that are like destroyer droids, aliens, or of couse other jedi.

A jedi game doesn't have to be 'walk in to room and fight hordes of weaklings'. That's fine on occasion, but anything in mass should be able to take down jedi. Just look at order 66.

I'd mostly agree, except I really liked Jedi Outcast's light sabers. You could throw them and i just felt they were a little more satisfying than a club. Not to mention the ability to use force powers. Always loved force-pushing people off of edges lol:twisted:skiinian_basic

Agreed, The Outcast games had awesome lightsabers, I had way to much fun in the second one with a lightsaber.

A game does not need weapon upgrades to be an RPG. Jedi do get stronger and more skilled. That should be more than enough RPG elements for a jedi game. Also, while most enemies aren't a threat to a jedi, there are plenty that are like destroyer droids, aliens, or of couse other jedi.

A jedi game doesn't have to be 'walk in to room and fight hordes of weaklings'. That's fine on occasion, but anything in mass should be able to take down jedi. Just look at order 66.goblaa

A hallmark of RPG is character progression. Every RPG game has that. Its usually done through a combination of stats, items, and story. Giving out the lightsaber early cuts off a veary easy means of item progression. Its the same reason KOTOR and Jedi Knight didnt start you off with a light saber.

An RPG doesn't NEED item progression, but it makes it a heck of alot easier to design by having it.

The only real way to show a jedi getting stronger and more skilled is by giving them more/better force powers or better stats. The problem with giving just better stats is that its rather lame. Its kinda boring when your only reward for leveling up is +5 to strength or something. It isn't anywhere near as exciting as, say, getting a new force power.

But then you run into the issue that if the force powers arent stronger than your light saber, then you've effectively got nothing good, and you'll rely mostly on your saber with little to look forward to in terms of seeing something new. If the force power proves to be too strong, then the lightsaber doesn't feel like it would in the movies, giving you little reason to use your saber. Its a delicate balance.

Your statement of Jedi being able to be killed by a mass of things is true, but im arguing more from a basic game design perspective the real issue. While you can do the things you've suggested, you can only do it so many times before its repetative and/or frustrating.

Like i said, Jedi Knight does a decent job, but comes dangerously close to the frustrating side of things for the exact reasons i mentioned. You are often pitted against storm troopers bombarding you from turrets in unreachable places or cliffs with lava that instantly kill you. These are done to balance you overpoweredness as a Jedi.

Im not saying what you want can't be done, buts its a surprisingly difficult thing to balance and design.

Am I the only one bothered by there being no starwars games where light sabers act like light sabers? In every starwars game the light sabers act essentially like sticks that you club people with. Aren't light sabers supposed to cut? And it can't be for violence reasons, there's no blood, the wound is cauterized. And in the movies (which are kid friendly) you see storm troopers get sliced up all the time.

It's cool that they made unleashed have accurate force powers and all for once, but couldn't they have gone the extra step and done the same for light sabers? goblaa

You never played any of the Jedi Knight games. I've only played Jedi Academy, but the light saber combat in that game is what you're looking for. Limbs fly left and right.

Plus, the combat is really satisfying. Its not based off of combos or anything like that, its all just swings. You have like 6 basic swings, a few special swings and various stances. You have to use them all effectively. Its less like a button masher and more of a fencing simulator.

You can beat base level people just randomly doing stuff, but you'll get cut down in like 10 seconds by a decent sith (which the game gives you nonstop in boss levels and the later stages) if you didn't actually learn what stance is strong against what, and how to actually fight smart. As the game goes one, you never really have a physical strength advantage over people. You can always die from one well placed hit. When you beat someone in a saber fight, its not because of stats, its because you put up a better fight and you knew more about sabering than they did.

And the force powers are still there and they are done well and are easy to implement into combat. I always liked that in Jedi Academy, you could get killed by storm troopers if they were out numbered, similar to Order 66. However, if you were like Obi-Wan and Yoda, you could be surrounded by like 15 people and get out of it by using push, saber throws, acrobatics, and ACCURATE sabering. Every stormtrooper can basically be killed with one swing. But they can do basic dodges. If you're just spinning the analog stick hoping to hit something, you will get shot in the face alot. But if you know what you're doing, you can tear them apart. The only issue with that system was that lightning was way to strong and grip was too strong. You could button mash your way through if you didn't have any issue spamming the hell out of those two moves. But then you'd go online and when you fight someone and they get taken down with one hit on a regular basis, its clear who actually learned the system and who just hit lightning/grip non-stop.

LOL @ dumbest post I have seen all week! It's like asking why bullets in most games don't immediately kill, or why dead enemies disappeart, or why cars survive whead-on collisions in racing games.

Come on...

Have people in SW become so silly?

farrell2k

Bullets don't kill immediately in real life, unless its a head shot, but in games generally headshots are fatal too.

Dead enemies or "people" do disappear.... it's called decomposing

Cars surviving head on collisions?? Forza 2

Jedi Knight Series (Outcast especially)

Jedi Academy.

Lightsabers, dueling and force powers have never been better.

[QUOTE="farrell2k"]

LOL @ dumbest post I have seen all week! It's like asking why bullets in most games don't immediately kill, or why dead enemies disappeart, or why cars survive whead-on collisions in racing games.

Come on...

Have people in SW become so silly?

Veterngamer

Bullets don't kill immediately in real life, unless its a head shot, but in games generally headshots are fatal too.

Dead enemies or "people" do disappear.... it's called decomposing

Cars surviving head on collisions?? Forza 2

Well it depends on what type of bullet and where you are hit....

Besides there are plenty of games that simulate real combat, and bullet penatration, though they are all on the PC.

they should get itagaki to make starwars games!Silenthps

[QUOTE="Silenthps"]they should get itagaki to make starwars games!whocares4peace

[QUOTE="whocares4peace"]

[QUOTE="Silenthps"]they should get itagaki to make starwars games!dooly420

they should get itagaki to make starwars games!Silenthps

Anyways, all of the star wars moves have been in ninja gaiden really, so all he'd have to do is change Ryu to Yoda or something. Lol, that actually sounds kinda bad ass. Lets not even change the game. We'll just call it Yoda Vs. Ninjas

Sorry, im tired, and im rambling.

The only real way to show a jedi getting stronger and more skilled is by giving them more/better force powers or better stats. The problem with giving just better stats is that its rather lame. Its kinda boring when your only reward for leveling up is +5 to strength or something. It isn't anywhere near as exciting as, say, getting a new force power.

XaosII

I disagree.

Everyone's forgetting lightsabers require the utmost concentration to wield. I reckon there could be a risk/reward system in which you must be absolutely skillfull when using the lightsaber so as to not go ahead and cut your own limb off. It's more suited to an action game, but it can be suited towards an RPG. I mean, I thought about that in three seconds, so someone take ten seconds to think of an RPG version of misusing a lightsaber.

Am I the only one bothered by there being no starwars games where light sabers act like light sabers? In every starwars game the light sabers act essentially like sticks that you club people with. Aren't light sabers supposed to cut? And it can't be for violence reasons, there's no blood, the wound is cauterized. And in the movies (which are kid friendly) you see storm troopers get sliced up all the time.

It's cool that they made unleashed have accurate force powers and all for once, but couldn't they have gone the extra step and done the same for light sabers? goblaa

There IS a dismemberment cheat in Jedi Outcast.

In Jedi Knight they burn't walls when they touched them, chopped limbs and heads off.Kez1984

Jedi Outcast

/thread

Am I the only one bothered by there being no starwars games where light sabers act like light sabers? In every starwars game the light sabers act essentially like sticks that you club people with. Aren't light sabers supposed to cut?

goblaa

The lightsaber seals the wound at the same time it cuts. So there should not be much bleeding.

[QUOTE="Silenthps"]they should get itagaki to make starwars games!falconclan

You would be correct

[QUOTE="Silenthps"]they should get itagaki to make starwars games!falconclan

Why not? For all we know the heat of the lighsaber could cause severe tissue damage several inches past where it actually cut. If it charred the flesh deep enough, no, there wouldn't be any blood.

they should get itagaki to make starwars games!Silenthps

the games would be too easy if the lightsabers just cut through enemies. it'd be realistic to the point where you might not have fun at all.Tiefster

Not really, Jedi Knight 2 was not easy by far from having that.

Why dont guns actually act like guns in FPS :?

I know why !! Because if they did it wouldnt be FUN anymore. :|

[QUOTE="Tiefster"]the games would be too easy if the lightsabers just cut through enemies. it'd be realistic to the point where you might not have fun at all.ArisShadows

Not really, Jedi Knight 2 was not easy by far from having that.

Yeah. The balance is that if a Jedi gets shot thats like half your life bar instantly. Not to mention that in Jedi Knight you often fight against a dark jedi (who can kill you in one well placed hit) and hordes of well armed stormtroopers at the same time.

[QUOTE="skiinian_basic"]I'd mostly agree, except I really liked Jedi Outcast's light sabers. You could throw them and i just felt they were a little more satisfying than a club. Not to mention the ability to use force powers. Always loved force-pushing people off of edges lol:twisted:monkeytoes61

wroung onley possible if you had a dismemberment mod which allowed you to cut heads,legs, and torsos off

[QUOTE="ArisShadows"]

[QUOTE="Tiefster"]the games would be too easy if the lightsabers just cut through enemies. it'd be realistic to the point where you might not have fun at all.Senor_Kami

Not really, Jedi Knight 2 was not easy by far from having that.

Yeah. The balance is that if a Jedi gets shot thats like half your life bar instantly. Not to mention that in Jedi Knight you often fight against a dark jedi (who can kill you in one well placed hit) and hordes of well armed stormtroopers at the same time.

You guys must have sucked at Jedi Knight 2. The only times where i died would be in the platforming elements.

[QUOTE="Senor_Kami"][QUOTE="ArisShadows"]

[QUOTE="Tiefster"]the games would be too easy if the lightsabers just cut through enemies. it'd be realistic to the point where you might not have fun at all.insanejedi

Not really, Jedi Knight 2 was not easy by far from having that.

Yeah. The balance is that if a Jedi gets shot thats like half your life bar instantly. Not to mention that in Jedi Knight you often fight against a dark jedi (who can kill you in one well placed hit) and hordes of well armed stormtroopers at the same time.

You guys must have sucked at Jedi Knight 2. The only times where i died would be in the platforming elements.

Awesome!!!!!

Do you use lightning and grip? Those powers break the game. Bad guys rarely block grip and you often fight in dangerous areas. You can kill pretty much anyone in two seconds by gripping and throwing them off a ledge. You can clear out a whole room of dark jedi in 3 seconds if you hold down the lightning attack. I don't think the developers did any testing at all when they put those in, or if they did they added them to casualize the game so that even if you suck you can beat any enemy you come against.