Which games do you think aged poorly?

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Mozelleple112

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#1 Mozelleple112
Member since 2011 • 7504 Posts

This thread does not apply to games that were always bad, but instead focuses on games that were MIND BLOWING at the time but down a few years later makes you go eh? How did I manage to play this...

I'll give a few examples.

  • GRAND THEFT AUTO III

I've stated in other threads that GTAIII might be the most revolutionary game of the 21st century, it's a nominee for game of the decade and GOTY 2001 for sure. But if you played Vice City like I did, it's almost impossible to like GTA 3. GTA: San Andreas made it completely redundant.

Vice City aged poorly as well, because after SA it was hard going back to a GTA that wouldn't let you swim, build your physique or ride BMX bikes.

  • Uncharted: Drake's Fortune (and Uncharted 2)

Uncharted 1 wasn't really anything special, a solid 8/10. but Uncharted 2 was better in every way. There's literally no point to play UC1.

After Sony made the Nathan Drake collection free, I have told all my friends to skip UC1. Half of them listened to me, those who didn't played it for a few hours and deleted the game. Doubt they'll ever give the franchise a go (my friends are casual gamers). I myself am struggling to bother. Got to about 70% and started right on Uncharted 2.

Uncharted 2 is one of the best games ever made. Completely deserves its 96 MC rating, in fact I would have given it 9.7/10 at launch. But even back in 2009 I noticed a lot of its virtues were there graphics, presentation, action sequences, cinematics etc so even 11 years ago I predicted it wouldn't really stand the test of time like Super Mario Bros, or Diablo 2 or CSS/CS1.6. Its story was nothing special either so remaking it won't really help that much. I'm about half way and not enjoying it anywhere near as much as I did in 2009 (it was my GOTY and top 5 GOTG). Still a great game, just not mind blowing.

  • Metal Gear Solid 1-3

MGS2 is one of my top 5 favourite games of all time. MGS3 top 10 somewhere. Huge Metal Gear fan, but as they stand (simply remastered) it is almost impossible to enjoy them. I cannot believe how I 19 years ago could stand holding down R1 to swap to FPV then hold down square and release to shoot.

Once you got used to MGS4 / MGS5 controls it made it impossible to replay.

Now the difference with these three Metal Gear games and the older GTAs & Uncharted is the Metal Gears can be remade to perfection. Just give them proper TPS action like MGS4 and boom, you have three of the best games of all time which could be replayed for decades. the stories are all some of the top 10 - top 20 best stories in gaming history, and that'll never go out of date.

  • Resident Evil 4

I didn't played RE4 on launch. I did however, give it a try after playing games like Gears of War. I was so fucking frustrating by the fact that I couldn't move and shoot that I gave up about 1 hour in. The game has a ridiculous 96% on MC, but its unplayable to me. I played the RE2 remake and absolutely loved it. Looking forward to RE3 remake going on sale and I believe a RE4, like the aforementioned Metal Gears, can be remade with modern controls (RE2 style) and it would be a timeless classic. Let me move and shoot and I'd buy an RE4 remake day 1.

So there you go. I differentiated my picks by games that have aged poorly beyond repair and those that aged badly but could be fixed with a simple update.

What are some of your favourite games that are 'impossible' for you to enjoy today? Or which games blew your mind back in the day but are nothing special today?

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osan0

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#2 osan0
Member since 2004 • 15858 Posts

I dont think i would like to go back and play the original shogun total war. It was epic at the time but...well...Creative assembly have made an improvement to the games since then. Same with Medieval 1 total war. I would be reluctant to go back to Rome at this stage too (Fantastic in its day though).

I was thinking of getting the Medieval remaster but the more i look at it the more i think "oh....naff". i really enjoyed it on the PS1 back in the day but i suspect things like the character handling will drive me a bit mad now. from what i can see it still is medieval with just a new coat of paint.

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Gifford38

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#3 Gifford38
Member since 2020 • 1581 Posts

ps1 games the early 3d games is just yuk. 2d games age much better than old 3d games.

ps2 is stretching it.

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PinkRibbonScars

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#4 PinkRibbonScars
Member since 2019 • 1033 Posts

MGS and Resident Evil 4 have aged poorly? Is this a troll thread?

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PAL360

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#5 PAL360
Member since 2007 • 29903 Posts

PS2 era in general.

2d pixelart doesn't age to me, and 5th gen 3d games with their plain polygons or pixelated textures still have alot of charisma.

I just can't enjoy 6th generation games anymore (PS2 in particular). It's a gen where most companies tried to aim at realism, but without the resources to do so. Most games feel like modern games, but without the level of polish, smooth gameplay, etc we take for granted these days.

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Ghosts4ever

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#6 Ghosts4ever
Member since 2015 • 15261 Posts

Any early 3D console game aged very poorly.

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Gifford38

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#7 Gifford38
Member since 2020 • 1581 Posts

@PAL360 said:

PS2 era in general.

2d pixelart doesn't age to me, and 5th gen 3d games with their plain polygons or pixelated textures still have alot of charisma.

I just can't enjoy 6th generation games anymore (PS2 in particular). It's a gen where most companies tried to aim at realism, but without the resources to do so. Most games feel like modern games, but without the level of polish, smooth gameplay, etc we take for granted these days.

yeah i have a hard time playing old ps2 games. ps1 is even worse unless its 2d.

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Cloud_Man

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#8 Cloud_Man
Member since 2020 • 177 Posts

Most console games from late 90s and early 2000s. Controls feel so clunky. And that includes classics like Silent Hill 2. Some have aged well. MGS 2 for example felt pretty fluid when I played it last year.

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nepu7supastar7

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#9 nepu7supastar7
Member since 2007 • 5940 Posts

@Mozelleple112:

I disagree, Uncharted 2's charm was its fun factor. It was an exciting adventure from start to finish. As adventure game, it's every bit as fun as it ever was.

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Mozelleple112

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#10  Edited By Mozelleple112
Member since 2011 • 7504 Posts

@pinkribbonscars: Absolutely not. I even specified in my post that MGS2 is my either my 4th or 5th favourite game of all time. I'd give it a 9.8/10.

I recently tried MGS: HD Collection Remaster on PS Now.

The opening cinematic from Sons of Liberty nearly brought me to tears. the visuals and theme sound track of the main menu nearly made me soil my pants. the menu sounds everything - so much nostalgia. I truly love this game sooo much.

Then I started playing it and after 45 minutes I just gave up. Constantly frustrated. It was like playing with my feet. or playing without opposable thumbs.

Now remake it in 4K/60fps on Fox Engine and give it the same gameplay / control mechanics of MGS4 / MGS5 without altering the phenomenal story, voice-acting, OSTs, etc and you have one of the greatest games ever. In its current state its pretty unplayable.

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nepu7supastar7

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#11 nepu7supastar7
Member since 2007 • 5940 Posts

Almost every ps1 game has aged poorly in terms of graphics and gameplay. Like Spiderman, Tony Hawk, Tomb Raider, Final Fantasy VII and even Resident Evil trilogy. They're all just dull as rocks.

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ConanTheStoner

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#12 ConanTheStoner
Member since 2011 • 19022 Posts

Weird.

Usually these "aged poorly" takes are really just examples of games that always sucked and you finally realized it later. Something about the game wowed you at the time, but the game wasn't actually all that. We all have some of those in our past.

Great game design isn't something that ages.

But what's odd is that you listed some legit good/great games. Reading your reasoning behind listing the MGS games and RE4 is painful. Had to scroll up back to make sure this wasn't a Ghosts4ever thread.

It's especially clear that you have no idea how games like MGS2 or RE4 work. The changes you propose are absurd and absolutely would not work with their core design.

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my_user_name

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#13 my_user_name
Member since 2019 • 227 Posts

Agreed on Vice City. I don't think RE4 has aged much , I just never found it deserving of its status as one of the all time greats. Very good sure . Same with Uncharted 2. Outside of one really amazing set piece it's just a polished version of 1. Plus it has some stuff that really drags like the village and train wreck.

I think MGS3's movement is a bit stiff/limited and the aiming controls take some getting used to but asides from that it is still alot of fun to play. Would rather play it then 4/5.

I played Devil May Cry 3 in 2006. Had not played 1 or 2. Then gave 1 a shot and quit on the first mission. The controls were weird . Plus you have fewer options for combat compared to 3. Have never tried it again

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Ghosts4ever

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#14 Ghosts4ever
Member since 2015 • 15261 Posts

@pinkribbonscars said:

MGS and Resident Evil 4 have aged poorly? Is this a troll thread?

RE4 aged very poorly. its too clunky to play now.

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DocSanchez

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#15 DocSanchez
Member since 2013 • 5520 Posts

I think the king of this debate is Goldeneye.

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Mozelleple112

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#16 Mozelleple112
Member since 2011 • 7504 Posts

@ConanTheStoner: I disagree. There are games that can blow my mind today and not be so great many years later.

Certain things age better than others. The more simple, the better it ages.

Think of Avengers: Endgame. I think its overrated AF, not a classic at all. but people love it and some even wanted it to win Academy awards.

Amazing CGI, action scenes, Atmos sound and 4K/HDR, etc . but 20 years from now people will be like "meh, Avengers 16 is soo much better than this crap". A movie like Joker on the other hand will age amazingly well and probably be appreciated for 40, 50 years in the future.

I'm the biggest Metal Gear fan but playing the old ones is tough. I'll rather save it for when they get remade. I'm not suggesting they simply swap the camera angle, but do whatever small changes needed to make it play more like MGS4 but with as many original elements as possible. What part of the games do you think wouldn't be possible by being able to move and shoot and having the camera behind you? Change the angles/placement of traps/cameras/bombs, etc and maybe make the enemies stronger/smarter if TPS controls make it 'too easy'. IDK. I LOVED their gameplay back in 2001-2004 but again, after playing MGS4 then going back, it has been a tough transition/downgrade.

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Mozelleple112

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#17 Mozelleple112
Member since 2011 • 7504 Posts

@DocSanchez: Oh yeah absolutely. Never grew up with an N64 (I had PS1), tried it a few years after launch and it was absolute garbage. I played CS 1.6 back in the day and Half Life and CS to Goldeneye put the latter to shame.

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Mozelleple112

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#18 Mozelleple112
Member since 2011 • 7504 Posts

@ConanTheStoner:


Let's look at Red Dead Redemption (didn't age too well) vs Mass Effect 2 (aged perfectly).


if you asked me in 2010 or 2011,2012, 2013, 2014... Which game was GOTY 2010 I would say Red Dead Redemption. At the time it was the best game I played that year.

Looking back in 2020, IMO Mass Effect 2 is the best game of that year. That it what I voted in the 2010 poll made here not long ago. RDR2 made RDR redundant. Mass Effect 2's story, voice-acting, OSTs etc will live on forever. one of the best games of all time, but not as good as RDR was at launch.

Make sense?

in 2010 RDR > ME2

in 2020 ME2 > RDR.

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Mozelleple112

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#19 Mozelleple112
Member since 2011 • 7504 Posts

@my_user_name: All fair points.

Devil May Cry is one of my top 10 favourite games... Don't tell me it aged poorly :( Considering the HD remaster but hope it isn't difficult to replay after having played the also excellent DMC5 (DMC 1 is still better)

then again if I wait a few more years no doubt Capcom will come out with a full Devil May Cry remake.

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Telekill

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#20 Telekill
Member since 2003 • 9387 Posts

Uncharted 2 is my favorite game of all time. I don't see how it's aged badly other than the co-op servers being shut down.

Getting back on track... Jumping Flash.

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nepu7supastar7

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#21 nepu7supastar7
Member since 2007 • 5940 Posts

@Mozelleple112:

Red Dead Redemption aged just fine, wtf are you even talking about?! The only thing that aged was the graphics but it still has awesome gunplay.

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Macutchi

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#22 Macutchi
Member since 2007 • 7238 Posts

@Mozelleple112 said:

@ConanTheStoner:

Let's look at Red Dead Redemption (didn't age too well) vs Mass Effect 2 (aged perfectly).

if you asked me in 2010 or 2011,2012, 2013, 2014... Which game was GOTY 2010 I would say Red Dead Redemption. At the time it was the best game I played that year.

Looking back in 2020, IMO Mass Effect 2 is the best game of that year. That it what I voted in the 2010 poll made here not long ago. RDR2 made RDR redundant. Mass Effect 2's story, voice-acting, OSTs etc will live on forever. one of the best games of all time, but not as good as RDR was at launch.

Make sense?

in 2010 RDR > ME2

in 2020 ME2 > RDR.

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#23  Edited By warmblur
Member since 2017 • 5541 Posts

Lets see

  • GTA 3D games 2001-04
  • Mafia 2002
  • Resident Evil PS1 games and the 2002 remake
  • Silent Hill games that involve combat
  • Far Cry 2004 and FC2 2008
  • Max Payne

The lack of physics in alot of these games really make them age and face models.

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Seabas989

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#24 Seabas989
Member since 2009 • 13387 Posts

A lot of games from the PS1/Saturn/N64 era.

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#25  Edited By Yams1980
Member since 2006 • 3976 Posts

Most of my Atari games I think have aged the worst, a few are still decent for a few minutes but the gameplay was so simple they aren't fun to play for long.

NES/SNES games have held up better, there was usually a lot more to those games, lots of trash though still.

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mandzilla

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#26 mandzilla  Moderator
Member since 2017 • 4492 Posts

GTA: San Andreas. Go up a steep hill in your car, pop the breaks on then try to accelerate up to the top again. You can't. Tires spin out then you end up rolling back down.

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sakaiXx

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#27 sakaiXx
Member since 2013 • 8344 Posts

@osan0: best total wars is still Medieval 2 personally. Always a good time coming back

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sakaiXx

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#28 sakaiXx
Member since 2013 • 8344 Posts

Ass Creed 2 trilogy is very dated and aged so poorly.

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Litchie

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#29  Edited By Litchie
Member since 2003 • 26128 Posts

Like Conan pointed out, pretty much every game that wasn't good to begin with. Like many early 3D games. Devs were all about taking advantage of 3D tech and forgot to make their games fun.

Usually, games that focus on anything other than gameplay will age badly, while games with good gameplay age like wine. Which is why I constantly get the urge to play old Nintendo games, for example.

RE4 was and still is awesome, by the way.

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#30  Edited By Jag85
Member since 2005 • 14780 Posts

Examples that come to mind:

  • Console and computer games before the NES
  • Most NES games
  • Most 8-bit RPGs
  • Super Mario Bros series and Super Mario 64
  • Most 3D first-person shooters
  • Tomb Raider series
  • Grand Theft Auto series

Borderline example:

  • Classic Resident Evil games - The games have aged well, but the tank controls have aged badly.

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Jag85

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#31  Edited By Jag85
Member since 2005 • 14780 Posts
@Litchie said:

Like Conan pointed out, pretty much every game that wasn't good to begin with. Like many early 3D games. Devs were all about taking advantage of 3D tech and forgot to make their games fun.

Isaac Newton: "If I have seen further, it is by standing on the shoulders of Giants."

3D gameplay didn't come fully-formed. It had to be constantly developed, improved and refined. Early 3D game developers were figuring out how to make their games in 3D, before later developers improved on their work and did it better.

  • For example, early 3D console games were stuck with D-pad controls. And then Super Mario 64 came along and showed developers how 3D gameplay can be significantly improved with analog thumbstick controls, opening up new possibilities for 3D gameplay.
  • Similarly, early 3D melee combat systems were horrible. Ocarina of Time then came along and showed how Z-targeting could significantly improve 3D melee combat. This paved the way for Onimusha and then Devil May Cry, which set the benchmark for 3D melee combat systems.

And finally, a lot of fun comes from the novelty factor. When something is fresh or innovative, it's fun to experience something new. But after experiencing it over and over again, or experiencing something better, it gets boring. Early 3D games were fun for their time, because they were novel and innovative.

In other words, I don't buy this whole argument of "they were never fun to begin with." That's an anachronistic argument, and misses the point of what made them fun in the first place.

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DrDeSSStruction

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#32 DrDeSSStruction
Member since 2020 • 85 Posts

Final Fantasy IX, Devil May Cry 1, Ocarina of Time

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xantufrog

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#33  Edited By xantufrog  Moderator
Member since 2013 • 13404 Posts

Most early 3D console games. Especially those with tank controls.

Also, many games from last gen that are visually muddy and mechanically restrictive and it turns out people were really excited about "mature" themes with 720p*

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SolidGame_basic

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#34 SolidGame_basic
Member since 2003 • 26782 Posts

I think when you play an old game now, there's sort of a lag period where you have to get used to the controls and how games were back then. I think it's that initial learning curve that puts people off. If you play it for a substantial amount of time, it may stick with you. It's kind of like someone who is used to play 60 FPS games, and then playing console. Initially they will say console sucks, but I find that after a while, I get used to the 30 FPS. If it's a good game, it should stand the test of time for the most part.

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Star67

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#35 Star67
Member since 2005 • 4743 Posts

For me it's games like Oblivion and Skyrim. I tried playing the OuterWorlds recently but I just can't get into it. It's too much "Go here, talk to this guy, go get thing, go back to talk to original guy"

To me that WRPG formula is getting a little stale. I much preferred playing games like Bloodborne, GOW, and Nioh for my rpg fix.

Also, MGS3 Subsistence does a good job modernizing the game a little. I would go back and play that version.

MGS3 is one of my favorite games of all time.

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ConanTheStoner

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#36  Edited By ConanTheStoner
Member since 2011 • 19022 Posts

@Jag85 said:

In other words, I don't buy this whole argument of "they were never fun to begin with." That's an anachronistic argument, and misses the point of what made them fun in the first place.

Sure, but that's not even the argument man.

A game having a solid foundation in design vs what an individual finds fun, not the same thing. I can fully respect strong game design in plenty of games that I don't personally find fun at all.

Anyways.

SF2 and MK1, same genre, same era, and I had a blast with both. I saw them being on even ground. In hindsight, SF2 is still a damn good game, while MK1 is trash.

Couldn't see it at the time, but after having some distance between myself and the experience, the novelty of MK1 wore off while the core play of SF2 still shines through. I was wowed by many superficial aspects of MK1, "blinded" in a sense and I can see and admit that now. It was my error, not a game "aging".

And having better iterations after the fact doesn't bury a well designed game. FGs have come a long way since then while SF2 remains a good game and always will.

Similarly we've had countless good/great platformers over the years, but we're never going to look back on stuff like SMB3 or SMW and say oh yeah, they aged poorly. Those games have air tight mechanics + strong level design, iteration doesn't erase that.

No matter how many Metroidvania games we get, Super Metroid remains an outstanding title.

Can improvement on a formula make a prior game less appealing by comparison? Of course. I still consider SMB1 a well designed game, but I feel SMB3 is a stronger game. Still, that doesn't take away from SMB1. Won't make me say it "aged poorly". It's still a solid game even if I realize better iterations on that formula have come to pass.

Strong game design doesn't retroactively become bad game design.

It's a weird thing with some gamers. Rather than admit their own error in judgement, realizing their change of perspective, just blame the game for "aging" even though it remains a constant lol. Pretty absurd when you think about it. We're not discussing jugs of milk here.

---

I feel in a round about way, you're actually supporting my argument.

- Apologizing for the many hurdles developers faced with early 3d gaming. Ok. Basically you're saying they hadn't sorted their shit yet. So while we were all wowed by a lot of their efforts, we were really willing to gloss over various examples of poor design for the fresh experience.

- Novelty factor. Yup, self explanatory there. Something outside of the core gameplay knocked your socks off and you realized that in hindsight.

Just to reiterate "Never fun to begin with" was never my argument to begin with.

@Litchie said:

Like Conan pointed out, pretty much every game that wasn't good to begin with. Like many early 3D games. Devs were all about taking advantage of 3D tech and forgot to make their games fun.

Usually, games that focus on anything other than gameplay will age badly, while games with good gameplay age like wine. Which is why I constantly get the urge to play old Nintendo games, for example.

RE4 was and still is awesome, by the way.

EXACTLY.

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Mozelleple112

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#37 Mozelleple112
Member since 2011 • 7504 Posts

@nepu7supastar7: I would not recommend Red Dead Redemption to any gamer in 2020. I'd say screw, get a recap of the story from YouTube and start playing the phenomenal RDR2.

I would however, absolutely tell a gamer looking for a superb RPG to get ME2. it beats out any RPG of the last decade except perhaps Witcher 3 and TES V: Skyrim.

so I hate RDR and love ME2? No, as I stated I thought RDR was GOTY back in 2010, but ME2 aged better.

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Mozelleple112

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#38 Mozelleple112
Member since 2011 • 7504 Posts

@SolidGame_basic: I bought a classic PS1 and tried games from my childhood like Syphon Filter. Holy crap it was soooo garbage.

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Mozelleple112

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#39  Edited By Mozelleple112
Member since 2011 • 7504 Posts

@Macutchi:

10 years ago Game A is slightly better than Game B

Today Game B is a better game than Game A.

Not hard to understand is it?

that's an example of marginal differences in ageing.

A more extreme example of huge disparity in ageing:

In 1997 I think Goldeneye is 100 times better and more fun than some silly Mario platformer.

23 years later Goldeneye is unplayable garbage but the Mario platformer is extremely fun to play.

What used to be MUCH better is now MUCH worse, because of ageing poorly vs ageing well.

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Ghosts4ever

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#40  Edited By Ghosts4ever
Member since 2015 • 15261 Posts

@warmblur said:

Lets see

  • Max Payne

The lack of physics in alot of these games really make them age and face models.

Max Payne age like a fine. infact its still mechanically perfect when todays third person games we see the likes of last of us and uncharted.

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nepu7supastar7

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#41 nepu7supastar7
Member since 2007 • 5940 Posts

@Mozelleple112:

Bullshit, RDR aged just as well as Mass Effect 2. They both have nearly identical combat to boot. Anyone who played RDR 2 can easily get along with RDR 1 (once they get past the graphics. Especially considering that they both have very similar mechanics. I can enjoy RDR 1 just much as I did before and I know for a fact that I'm not the only one enjoying it in 2020. You're talking like as if it's a game from ps2 or if it was like the old GTA games. It's not and it was already ahead of its time. Playing it now is basically like playing a less-depth sequel to RDR 2. The story might start off slow but that's about it.

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Zero_epyon

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#42 Zero_epyon
Member since 2004 • 14688 Posts

@sakaixx said:

Ass Creed 2 trilogy is very dated and aged so poorly.

Yes. I recently purchased the trilogy on PC and regretted it almost immediately. The games were amazing then though.

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Macutchi

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#43 Macutchi
Member since 2007 • 7238 Posts

@Mozelleple112 said:

@Macutchi:

10 years ago Game A is slightly better than Game B

Today Game B is a better game than Game A.

Not hard to understand is it?

when you phrase it like that it's not.

but when you say red dead redemption was your goty ten years ago, and you'd take it over mass effect 2 for five years running, then rdr2 came out and suddenly me2 becomes one of the best games of all time with a story that will live on forever and is now your 2010 goty...

that takes some mental gymnastics to rationalise :)

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#44  Edited By Sevenizz  Online
Member since 2010 • 5195 Posts

The N64 controller. Quite possibly the worst set up for a controller in history. N claims they designed it ergonomically, but they should’ve tested it with human hands.

For this reason, the entire catalogue of the N64.

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#45 BenjaminBanklin
Member since 2004 • 6338 Posts

@PAL360 said:

PS2 era in general.

2d pixelart doesn't age to me, and 5th gen 3d games with their plain polygons or pixelated textures still have alot of charisma.

I just can't enjoy 6th generation games anymore (PS2 in particular). It's a gen where most companies tried to aim at realism, but without the resources to do so. Most games feel like modern games, but without the level of polish, smooth gameplay, etc we take for granted these days.

I'm the opposite. I love 2D pixel art if it's done well enough. It's why a title like SFIII still holds my attention to this day.

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#46  Edited By flashn00b
Member since 2006 • 3783 Posts

Final Fantasy VII. I know people wish that the Final Fantasy 7 remake was a 1:1 remake but let's be real: that type of battle system has long since been relegated to "Have a thing to play while playing the Engineer in TF2".

Actually, what game would you play while playing a turn-based JRPG at the same time? Cuz the Engineer in TF2 seems like the best example I can think of since your reward for good sentry placement is "you don't get to see much action at all because your enemies are too scared to face your sentry"

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#47 Jag85
Member since 2005 • 14780 Posts
@ConanTheStoner said:

A game having a solid foundation in design vs what an individual finds fun, not the same thing. I can fully respect strong game design in plenty of games that I don't personally find fun at all.

SF2 and MK1, same genre, same era, and I had a blast with both. I saw them being on even ground. In hindsight, SF2 is still a damn good game, while MK1 is trash.

Couldn't see it at the time, but after having some distance between myself and the experience, the novelty of MK1 wore off while the core play of SF2 still shines through. I was wowed by many superficial aspects of MK1, "blinded" in a sense and I can see and admit that now. It was my error, not a game "aging".

And having better iterations after the fact doesn't bury a well designed game. FGs have come a long way since then while SF2 remains a good game and always will.

Similarly we've had countless good/great platformers over the years, but we're never going to look back on stuff like SMB3 or SMW and say oh yeah, they aged poorly. Those games have air tight mechanics + strong level design, iteration doesn't erase that.

No matter how many Metroidvania games we get, Super Metroid remains an outstanding title.

Can improvement on a formula make a prior game less appealing by comparison? Of course. I still consider SMB1 a well designed game, but I feel SMB3 is a stronger game. Still, that doesn't take away from SMB1. Won't make me say it "aged poorly". It's still a solid game even if I realize better iterations on that formula have come to pass.

Strong game design doesn't retroactively become bad game design.

It's a weird thing with some gamers. Rather than admit their own error in judgement, realizing their change of perspective, just blame the game for "aging" even though it remains a constant lol. Pretty absurd when you think about it. We're not discussing jugs of milk here.

---

I feel in a round about way, you're actually supporting my argument.

- Apologizing for the many hurdles developers faced with early 3d gaming. Ok. Basically you're saying they hadn't sorted their shit yet. So while we were all wowed by a lot of their efforts, we were really willing to gloss over various examples of poor design for the fresh experience.

- Novelty factor. Yup, self explanatory there. Something outside of the core gameplay knocked your socks off and you realized that in hindsight.

Just to reiterate "Never fun to begin with" was never my argument to begin with.

  1. There was no "solid foundation" for early 3D games. It took years of effort, experimentation and refinement before developers eventually developed a "solid foundation" for 3D games.
  2. I never found Mortal Kombat to be much fun to begin with. The only part I actually found fun were the fatalities. The actual fights themselves were otherwise quite boring. That's not the kind of "novelty factor" I'm referring to. I'm talking about "novel" gameplay, not novel non-gameplay stuff like graphics, violence or gore.
  3. SF2 still remains a good game at its core. But it's quite basic and lacks content compared to later Street Fighter games. So yes, it has aged in that regard.
  4. Sure, SMB3 and SMW have aged well. Can't say the same for the original SMB or SM64 though.
  5. There were dozens of "Metroidvania" style platform-adventures before Super Metroid. It took dozens of iterations before Super Metroid eventually perfected the formula. If those earlier experiments didn't exist, then Super Metroid wouldn't exist. Likewise, Zelda wouldn't exist without a game called Hydlide, which is today widely reviled as a "trash" game in the West, yet it was that "trash" game which paved the way for Zelda. Even Hideki Kamiya, the dude who gave us the "solid foundation" for 3D melee combat with DMC, has nothing but praise for Hydlide, because that's what got him into game design in the first place.
  6. Same goes for the original SMB. There were dozens of side-scrollers that came before it. It took years of effort, experimentation and refinement before SMB eventually laid down the "solid foundation" for side-scrollers. But personally, I didn't find the original SMB much fun to begin with. Since my introduction to platformers was Alex Kidd in Miracle World, a Sega Master System platformer that improved on OG SMB in almost every way. In other words, OG SMB didn't age too well.
  7. Again, no one knew what "poor design" in 3D gaming was back then, simply because there was no "solid foundation" for 3D gaming back then. That's an anachronistic argument, or what historians criticize as "whig history" (which means "an approach to historiography that presents the past as an inevitable progression towards ever greater liberty and enlightenment"). What made Gen 5 so exciting and unique was the constant innovation and experimentation, trying to figure out what works and what doesn't, the process of discovery and refinement.
  8. Again, the "novelty factor" I'm referring to is gameplay, not graphics/sound/story/whatever. Early 3D games gave us novel gameplay. Which made the gameplay fun. Because we were experiencing new kinds of gameplay we hadn't experienced before. That's my point.

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#48 Mozelleple112
Member since 2011 • 7504 Posts

@Macutchi: Well a game that is 1, 2 ,3 , 4 , and 5 years old won't be 'outdated'. RDR2 released 8 years after and for me it completely replaces RDR1, just like every GTA game does its prequel.

Mass Effect 4 could be the best game ever and I would still recommend ME2, because it's storyline won't ever get outdated or 'replaced'. The same goes with Metal Gear games. Sons of Liberty's story will still remain one of the best stories ever told and every gamer for the next century deserves to experience it. Shame with controls are a bit wonky / aged, but a full remake can fix that.

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#49 Mozelleple112
Member since 2011 • 7504 Posts

@Sevenizz: The N64 controller is complete garbage lool. Huge disasterpiece of a clusterfuck, ergonomically speaking.

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#50 Crazy_Chemist
Member since 2020 • 152 Posts

Take a look and try to play the first syphon filter. It looks awful, i mean its........its bad. Lol