What is Sony's worst division?

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PraetorianMan

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#1 PraetorianMan
Member since 2011 • 2073 Posts

I don't want this to become a flame war, and there's no reason for this thread to live longer than 2 posts.

Anyway, it is very clear that Sony has lost a LOT of money since 2000. They went from being worth something to the tune of $100 billion to $18 billion. That is a MASSIVE loss of value in... not that long of a time. They didn't exactly become worthless overnight like some companies did recently, but somewhere in Sony a LOT of money is being hemorrhaged,

Before anyone says anything stupid, we already know its NOT SCE that's the problem The PS3 so far has been a net loss for them, but NOT LIKE THIS. Since 2000 SCE has, in spite of PS3's losses, still retained a cumulative profit. That means that $82 billion has been and is being lost somewhere else in Sony.

My question for you is, who is losing this money? Who is losing the most money?


At this point I'm tempted to say that Sony should cut everything in their company except SCE. Their videogame division is apparently the only thing that is producing a profit for them. I'm willing to give their TV's a chance since they have a couple of interesting products coming out, but if that fails, they should go VG only like Nintendo. At least that way they won't have a deficit.

Actually, let me establish a rule for this thread. Your post isn't allowed to be longer than 1-3 words. "Cell Phones" works as an answer.

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Bigboi500

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#2 Bigboi500
Member since 2007 • 35550 Posts

Gaming.

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PraetorianMan

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#3 PraetorianMan
Member since 2011 • 2073 Posts

Gaming.

Bigboi500

We already confirmed that's not correct. Next.

EDIT: I should elaborate a bit. SCE is Sony's gaming division. Re-read the original post.

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Basinboy

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#4 Basinboy
Member since 2003 • 14495 Posts

Sony's film division puts out some of the most ill-conceived and executed garbage in all of Hollywood. Probably doesn't tarnish their bottomline very much, but I can't stand answering any other way.

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hexashadow13

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#5 hexashadow13
Member since 2010 • 5157 Posts

TVs

Now, I know that this is against the rules, but I feel like I need to explain. Sorry :(

Sony not only put major development into it, but actually sold TVs for a loss trying to simulate media sales. They do this with most of their hardware. But with most it actually ends up working out to at least not have them lose much and eventually give them a base to grow. It worked OK when they did to push blu-ray, but even then it never really got them major profit. They tried more recently to do it to stimulate their digital markets, but that hasn't worked at all. Their other divisions such as their mobiles also suffer from this.

Honestly their cameras and PS is the only thing they're actually doing right at this point, and PS only because the base remains and doesn't change every other year like most other technology.

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nitekids2004

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#6 nitekids2004
Member since 2005 • 2981 Posts

I don't want this to become a flame war, and there's no reason for this thread to live longer than 2 posts.

Anyway, it is very clear that Sony has lost a LOT of money since 2000. They went from being worth something to the tune of $100 billion to $18 billion. That is a MASSIVE loss of value in... not that long of a time. They didn't exactly become worthless overnight like some companies did recently, but somewhere in Sony a LOT of money is being hemorrhaged,

Before anyone says anything stupid, we already know its NOT SCE that's the problem The PS3 so far has been a net loss for them, but NOT LIKE THIS. Since 2000 SCE has, in spite of PS3's losses, still retained a cumulative profit. That means that $82 billion has been and is being lost somewhere else in Sony.

My question for you is, who is losing this money? Who is losing the most money?


At this point I'm tempted to say that Sony should cut everything in their company except SCE. Their videogame division is apparently the only thing that is producing a profit for them. I'm willing to give their TV's a chance since they have a couple of interesting products coming out, but if that fails, they should go VG only like Nintendo. At least that way they won't have a deficit.

Actually, let me establish a rule for this thread. Your post isn't allowed to be longer than 1-3 words. "Cell Phones" works as an answer.

PraetorianMan

Are you talking about the value of the stock price from its high of 150+ to the current 17+?

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PraetorianMan

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#7 PraetorianMan
Member since 2011 • 2073 Posts

Sony's film division puts out some of the most ill-conceived and executed garbage in all of Hollywood. Probably doesn't tarnish their bottomline very much, but I can't stand answering any other way.

Basinboy
While you technically violated the 1-3 word rule, I will respond to this anyway. SPE owns Columbia Pictures, Tristar pictures, and other crap. These guys regularly pump out some absolutely abysmal bullsh!t [like Jack and Jill]. The strange thing is, to my knowledge anyway, these movies actually turn a profit. Jack and Jill was profitable, in spite of its $79 million budget. Its just bizarre. While I really don't like the majority of what SPE pumps out, I agree I don't think they're actually operating at a loss, or not a big one anyway.
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#8 PraetorianMan
Member since 2011 • 2073 Posts
>

Are you talking about the value of the stock price from its high of 150+ to the current 17+?

nitekids2004
Oooh I'm.... actually not sure. It was a random stat I picked up from one of Charizard's threads.
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nitekids2004

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#9 nitekids2004
Member since 2005 • 2981 Posts

[QUOTE="nitekids2004"]>

Are you talking about the value of the stock price from its high of 150+ to the current 17+?

PraetorianMan

Oooh I'm.... actually not sure. It was a random stat I picked up from one of Charizard's threads.

:lol: ok

Because if its market capitalization (aka stock price x # of shares outstanding), we all knew that there was a stock market bubble in 2001-2002 so they were grossly inflated anyway.

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Marka1700

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#10 Marka1700
Member since 2003 • 7500 Posts

TVs

Now, I know that this is against the rules, but I feel like I need to explain. Sorry :(

Sony not only put major development into it, but actually sold TVs for a loss trying to simulate media sales. They do this with most of their hardware. But with most it actually ends up working out to at least not have them lose much and eventually give them a base to grow. It worked OK when they did to push blu-ray, but even then it never really got them major profit. They tried more recently to do it to stimulate their digital markets, but that hasn't worked at all. Their other divisions such as their mobiles also suffer from this.

Honestly their cameras and PS is the only thing they're actually doing right at this point, and PS only because the base remains and doesn't change every other year like most other technology.

hexashadow13

They sell them at a loss becuse they have to buy other manufactures pannels as they have not tech of thier own. Untill they start produceing thier own display tech they will keep losing money in this sector.

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Newhopes

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#11 Newhopes
Member since 2009 • 4775 Posts

TV's is by far the worst but most of there products are getting hammered.

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kylemoffattscea

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#12 kylemoffattscea
Member since 2012 • 126 Posts

I can tell you gaming is their best!:P

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PraetorianMan

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#13 PraetorianMan
Member since 2011 • 2073 Posts

TVshexashadow13
Hmm.. I suspected that TVs were a big problem. I don't know if they should be axed yet though, We'll see how some of their latest products go [namely the new Bavaria lineup and the CLED]. If those fumble though, I think it would be a good time to throw in the towel. Honestly I would imagine that their cellphone division would have lost more money. Their phone aren't even good. Sony needs to focus what is working for them, and quit what's not.

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PraetorianMan

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#14 PraetorianMan
Member since 2011 • 2073 Posts

I can tell you gaming is their best!:P

kylemoffattscea

I completely believe this. Sony should double their focus on SCE.

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hexashadow13

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#15 hexashadow13
Member since 2010 • 5157 Posts

[QUOTE="hexashadow13"]

TVs

Now, I know that this is against the rules, but I feel like I need to explain. Sorry :(

Sony not only put major development into it, but actually sold TVs for a loss trying to simulate media sales. They do this with most of their hardware. But with most it actually ends up working out to at least not have them lose much and eventually give them a base to grow. It worked OK when they did to push blu-ray, but even then it never really got them major profit. They tried more recently to do it to stimulate their digital markets, but that hasn't worked at all. Their other divisions such as their mobiles also suffer from this.

Honestly their cameras and PS is the only thing they're actually doing right at this point, and PS only because the base remains and doesn't change every other year like most other technology.

Marka1700

They sold them at a loss becuse they have to buy other manufactures pannels as they have not tech of thier own.

OK? A company wouldn't sell TVs for a loss at all if they didn't have a possible profit in it. Reasons why it's at a loss doesn't really matter.
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#16 Thefatness16
Member since 2010 • 4673 Posts

Probably their electronics division.

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#17 deactivated-5ac102a4472fe
Member since 2007 • 7431 Posts

A few educated guesses would be thier movie branch, or thier phone branch.

Both of those are in really bad shape.

thier TV branch is in a sad state, but didd'nt they sell some assets to Samsung, and then focus on the CLED?

thier gaming branch (SCE) should be doing pretty well overall, but is dragged down by some of the other branches.

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#18 Diviniuz
Member since 2009 • 6460 Posts
mobile cellphone
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#19 Basinboy
Member since 2003 • 14495 Posts

[QUOTE="Basinboy"]

Sony's film division puts out some of the most ill-conceived and executed garbage in all of Hollywood. Probably doesn't tarnish their bottomline very much, but I can't stand answering any other way.

PraetorianMan

While you technically violated the 1-3 word rule, I will respond to this anyway. SPE owns Columbia Pictures, Tristar pictures, and other crap. These guys regularly pump out some absolutely abysmal bullsh!t [like Jack and Jill]. The strange thing is, to my knowledge anyway, these movies actually turn a profit. Jack and Jill was profitable, in spite of its $79 million budget. Its just bizarre. While I really don't like the majority of what SPE pumps out, I agree I don't think they're actually operating at a loss, or not a big one anyway.

Sickening, I know. I guess it didn't come across but my OP addressed that a lot of those films do actually make money for Sony. While not harmful to the company, there isn't any other division in Sony I can hate as profoundly as their film division.

In all honesty, divisions that are probably hitting Sony hard are TVs (since their margins are pretty small anyway and Sony is always, somehow, more expensive than the competition) and their computer line too. VAIOs don't exactly light the laptop market on fire and the margins are those are just as slim if not moreso than televisions. A lot of their losses off those margins, too, are magnified by the ailing Japanese economy and the strengthening Yen to the dollar. The trade deficits end up doing a really shocking level of damage to the end bottomline.

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#20 RandomWinner
Member since 2010 • 3751 Posts

I'm just going to agree with everyone else and say its TVs, which is too bad because they ARE great TVs. I came here mostly because I wanted to say that the important thing is that gaming is their strongest asset. Even if Sony go under Playstation will be here to stay for many years.

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#21 Jynxzor
Member since 2003 • 9313 Posts

As much as I enjoy my Sony products.

TV's

Sony just doesn't have the abillity to produce TV's and sell them as cheap as Samsung or LG who release TV's on par if not better than more expensive Sony sets, it's a shame Sony used to have that market (As well as most consumer electronics markets) under their thumb but I have to say they spread themselves thin in the past years going after too many markets when they needed to consolidate and focus in such a rapid moving tech world.

They didn't drop their stake in LCD's for nothing, they are obviously scaling back on the TV market, Phones, Tablets, Consoles, Cameras is where they are strong currently they need to make a name for themselves again before going gunghoe on all fronts. The Sony name doesn't throw around as much weight as it did in the 90's early 2000~.

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nitekids2004

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#22 nitekids2004
Member since 2005 • 2981 Posts

Right now, TV. Too many competitors.

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#23 Kashiwaba
Member since 2005 • 8059 Posts

As much as I enjoy my Sony products.

TV's

Sony just doesn't have the abillity to produce TV's and sell them as cheap as Samsung or LG who release TV's on par if not better than more expensive Sony sets, it's a shame Sony used to have that market (As well as most consumer electronics markets) under their thumb but I have to say they spread themselves thin in the past years going after too many markets when they needed to consolidate and focus in such a rapid moving tech world.

They didn't drop their stake in LCD's for nothing, they are obviously scaling back on the TV market, Phones, Tablets, Consoles, Cameras is where they are strong currently they need to make a name for themselves again before going gunghoe on all fronts. The Sony name doesn't throw around as much weight as it did in the 90's early 2000~.

Jynxzor

Its not SONY fault its the high exchange rate of Yen its the same reason Toshiba, Sharp and Japanese cars manufuctures are suffering and cant keep up with their Korean rivals.

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#24 SUD123456
Member since 2007 • 6939 Posts

[QUOTE="Jynxzor"]

As much as I enjoy my Sony products.

TV's

Sony just doesn't have the abillity to produce TV's and sell them as cheap as Samsung or LG who release TV's on par if not better than more expensive Sony sets, it's a shame Sony used to have that market (As well as most consumer electronics markets) under their thumb but I have to say they spread themselves thin in the past years going after too many markets when they needed to consolidate and focus in such a rapid moving tech world.

They didn't drop their stake in LCD's for nothing, they are obviously scaling back on the TV market, Phones, Tablets, Consoles, Cameras is where they are strong currently they need to make a name for themselves again before going gunghoe on all fronts. The Sony name doesn't throw around as much weight as it did in the 90's early 2000~.

Kashiwaba

Its not SONY fault its the high exchange rate of Yen its the same reason Toshiba, Sharp and Japanese cars manufuctures are suffering and cant keep up with their Korean rivals.

The Yen is not the primary reason for the continued worsening of the CPD division. In fact, in the last reported quarter (Jul - Sep 11) the year over year effect of foreign exchange was positive.

The primary drivers of the worsening results in TVs is Cost of Sales ratio (by far), followed by lower Unit Sales. In other words, they sold less TVs than expected which is bad, but what is worse is that they had to sell them all at a lower price due to competition.

There is too much TV competition, with too much total manufacturing capacity, at a time of reduced consumer confidence/spending. The result is that Sony cannot extract a Brand premium on their TVs due to competition so they have to sell them at a lower price. Pick up any electronics flyer from a big box store and the answer is obvious: dirt cheap HDTVs from numerous competitors.

There is no easy solution to this problem. HDTVs are becoming a commodity like product with little brand differentiation. The Yen is an issue, but it is not the core issue.

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meetroid8

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#25 meetroid8
Member since 2005 • 21152 Posts
Electronics corporation division wars?
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SUD123456

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#26 SUD123456
Member since 2007 • 6939 Posts

Electronics corporation division wars?meetroid8

Sounds like a good game.

Each company'ssales operativesgets one universal projectile firing weapon.

The ammunition is their company's actual electronics products.

You load up a Sony Bravia and fire it the competitor causing great damage. He fires back with smaller but higher cyclicalfiring ammunitionshooting 3DS units at you.

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razgriz_101

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#27 razgriz_101
Member since 2007 • 16875 Posts

Film division is hemmorhaging money and pumping out crappy films.Last film i think that i bought that was under a Sony pictures label was FFVII advent children.

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#28 ShadowDeathX
Member since 2006 • 11698 Posts
Electronics corporation division wars?meetroid8
Electronics my ***. Sony's most profitable division is their Financial services. Them selling life insurance is what is keeping them mostly upfloat.
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#29 cainetao11
Member since 2006 • 38026 Posts
Their fanboys
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#30 tjricardo089
Member since 2010 • 7429 Posts

Computers.

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#31 GTerror666
Member since 2012 • 77 Posts
I think i remember reading thier tv sales arent performing. Gaming is turning a profit finally.