What do we want from Streets Of Rage 5?

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uninspiredcup

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#1  Edited By uninspiredcup
Member since 2013 • 41753 Posts

Hello. Now that Streets Of Rage is back, and and arguably better than ever where can it go from here?

Couple of things I think that need fixed

- More persistent logic

Sometimes the player can pick up grenades, sometimes they can't. Sometimes the enemies can be hurt by by them, other times they can't. Player takes ground splash damage, enemies don't.

- Enemy spawning

On some maps, enemies straight up drop from the sky onto the player and more or less instantly hit the player. You can counter this if you know the map explicitly, but I still think this is sort of bullshit design.

I'd like to see more diverse levels than the A-B stuff. The games own elevator sequence is really good, and a good example of a game emulating movies (specifically Hong Kong) without the game itself sacrificing gameplay, the music, action and pacing perfectly gells together.

This is something Mother Russia comparatively has in spades, but does it poorly thanks constantly irrupting the player with story-shit nobody cares about and a combat system that's basically ice-skating with a bat hoping you hit something.

The best probably being the Revolution level whereby a bunch of gimmicks are thrown at the player, fog blocking the line of sight, dogs, projectles protecting NPC's, slowing down police as the screen scrolls etc...

10:00

If stuff like this was done in SOR, be pretty rad.

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VFighter

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#2 VFighter
Member since 2016 • 7231 Posts

*More variety in levels

*Better special effects (explosions, fire, etc)

*Better hit detection (it wasn't major, but it was enough that it annoyed me)

*More characters (bring in some from other Sega franchises like Golden Axe)

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Ezekiel43

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#3 Ezekiel43
Member since 2017 • 2903 Posts

3D, third person, similar controls and gameplay. If it doesn't work, we can go back to 2D.

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ConanTheStoner

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#4  Edited By ConanTheStoner
Member since 2011 • 19470 Posts

Damn. Had a laundry list of little things when I was playing it obsessively. Now forgot most of it.

I liked so much about the game. Even stuff that seemed off at first, mostly turned out to be "git gud", or just not initially understanding what their goal was. Even the super armor boss shit went from being a complaint to something I sorta appreciated.

What remained was mostly nitpicky stuff. Like the enormous hitboxes on knife Galsias. Crazy degree of lane change on Suzy jump ins (mostly an issue on Mania). And feeling kinda robbed by the Kickboxers flurries with zero telegraph. I'm sure the games been patched a ton, so not even sure how that stuff is now.

Hard to think of any real complaints.

Right off the top, I'd definitely like a more balanced scoring system. S-ranking some stages on hard+ required near perfection, while others were a little too lenient.

And yeah, more moments like the elevator sequence, definitely the most memorable moment of the game for many. It all came together perfectly. Basically set pieces, they just don't take you out of the core game.

I thought the bosses were really good, tho could be better. And would like to see more of them, even if they're hidden stage secrets. Like the arcade + taser shit, more of that kind of stuff plz.

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judaspete

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#5 judaspete
Member since 2005 • 4014 Posts

Make it Golden Axe.

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uninspiredcup

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#6 uninspiredcup
Member since 2013 • 41753 Posts

@ConanTheStoner said:

Damn. Had a laundry list of little things when I was playing it obsessively. Now forgot most of it.

I liked so much about the game. Even stuff that seemed off at first, mostly turned out to be "git gud", or just not initially understanding what their goal was. Even the super armor boss shit went from being a complaint to something I sorta appreciated.

What remained was mostly nitpicky stuff. Like the enormous hitboxes on knife Galsias. Crazy degree of lane change on Suzy jump ins (mostly an issue on Mania). And feeling kinda robbed by the Kickboxers flurries with zero telegraph. I'm sure the games been patched a ton, so not even sure how that stuff is now.

Hard to think of any real complaints.

Right off the top, I'd definitely like a more balanced scoring system. S-ranking some stages on hard+ required near perfection, while others were a little too lenient.

And yeah, more moments like the elevator sequence, definitely the most memorable moment of the game for many. It all came together perfectly. Basically set pieces, they just don't take you out of the core game.

I thought the bosses were really good, tho could be better. And would like to see more of them, even if they're hidden stage secrets. Like the arcade + taser shit, more of that kind of stuff plz.

Def the most annoying fucker in the game. He's not really hard to avoid, but if you're going for higher ranks, or just clustered up on screen, yes, a problem.

Seems Cherry is best at circumvent him and keeping combos going easily with her head hopping shit.

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#7 ConanTheStoner
Member since 2011 • 19470 Posts

@uninspiredcup:

Damn that pic. 😂

Yeah man, after switching to Adam4 as my go to character, just went for neutral jump kicks every time. Insanely good hit box, seemed like the safest bet against those bastards. Good for dealing with Signals slides too.

I probably will pick up Cherry next time I get into the game. Adam4 ended up being my fav, but also used Blaze4 a ton. Hardly used the rest of the cast. Think I only used Floyd for the no damage chievo.

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deactivated-5f3ec00254b0d

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#8 deactivated-5f3ec00254b0d
Member since 2009 • 6278 Posts

I want better specials.

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Renegade_Fury

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#9 Renegade_Fury
Member since 2003 • 21045 Posts

I honestly don't think there is going to be an SoR5 anytime soon, if at all. We're still waiting on SoR4 patches, and the DLC characters will probably come out sometime next year.

But anyway, I guess I'd want significantly better hit detection, varied enemy movesets (as opposed to the one dimensional enemies with super armor that they have in SoR4), and alternate paths and endings. Basically, copy the other stuff from Remake that they haven't yet.

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avenger85

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#10 avenger85
Member since 2015 • 298 Posts

More characters would love to see max, Sheva, Skate and Roo make come backs.

More weapons, levels Also more skins.

Would be cool to have bonus stages where you can replay past levels in the new game engine.

At this point though I love 4 a lot would be excited to play 5 day one.

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my_user_name

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#11 my_user_name
Member since 2019 • 301 Posts

I'd like some more moves. It doesn't need to become Devil May Cry but ... well actually yes, 2d Devil may Cry sounds good to me.

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#12  Edited By ConanTheStoner
Member since 2011 • 19470 Posts

@my_user_name:

I like a good combo heavy game, but honestly appreciated SOR4 for not going all in. Mostly about pokes and throws to manage positioning, crowd control play, then occasionally let out with longer form combos when the opening presents itself. Earning that moment to finish a string or to go in with a corner infinite felt like a nice payoff.

That said, if you haven't played Fight 'N Rage it's worth a go. Wouldn't call it 2d DMC, but it lets you go wild with combos while still sharing core similarities with classic beat em ups like SOR.

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filthyn00b

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#13 filthyn00b
Member since 2020 • 473 Posts

3D, enough of the 2d shit.

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mrbojangles25

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#14 mrbojangles25
Member since 2005 • 47995 Posts

@filthyn00b said:

3D, enough of the 2d shit.

What? Why?

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filthyn00b

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#15 filthyn00b
Member since 2020 • 473 Posts

@mrbojangles25: that franchise has been around 30 years and they're still too scrared to try to make a 3d beat em up? WTF

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#16 filthyn00b
Member since 2020 • 473 Posts
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#17  Edited By filthyn00b
Member since 2020 • 473 Posts

Why has there been no evolution of the 3d beat em up games? These people too scared to evolve em play it safe with 2d pieces of shit.

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#18 Sancho_Panzer
Member since 2015 • 1422 Posts

@filthyn00b said:

Why has there been no evolution of the 3d beat em up games? These people too scared to evolve em play it safe with 2d pieces of shit.

I think it's because 3d brawlers are a bastard to control.

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mrbojangles25

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#19  Edited By mrbojangles25
Member since 2005 • 47995 Posts

@filthyn00b said:

@mrbojangles25: that franchise has been around 30 years and they're still too scrared to try to make a 3d beat em up? WTF

I don't think they're scared. They are just a.) sticking with a winning formula and b.) capitalizing on nostalgia.

Innovation is nice, don't get me wrong, but sometimes sticking something we know works and is still enjoyed is also nice.

Also things don't always translate well to 3D.

@sancho_panzer said:
@filthyn00b said:

Why has there been no evolution of the 3d beat em up games? These people too scared to evolve em play it safe with 2d pieces of shit.

I think it's because 3d brawlers are a bastard to control.

Yup.

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filthyn00b

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#20 filthyn00b
Member since 2020 • 473 Posts

yakuza to the cloest thing to a modern day 3d best em up, it controls fine.

I never had any problems in fighting force/dynamite cop it adds depth to the fighting instead of just just moving up and down on the screen or turning left or right lol.

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filthyn00b

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#21 filthyn00b
Member since 2020 • 473 Posts

nowadays they could have better camera systems than back in the day also.

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#22  Edited By Sancho_Panzer
Member since 2015 • 1422 Posts

@filthyn00b said:

yakuza to the cloest thing to a modern day 3d best em up, it controls fine.

I never had any problems in fighting force/dynamite cop it adds depth to the fighting instead of just just moving up and down on the screen or turning left or right lol.

Sure, there's no doubt a super-talented subset of fighting game fans who get enjoyment out of the potential arising from the extra depth, but my guess is that for a lot of (even pro level) players, it's an unnecessary layer that distracts from the core of what makes fighting games fun, and would involve re-balancing the good stuff in a way not many games have pulled off. I'm terrible at all fighting games, lol, so maybe I'm in no position to speak on anyone's behalf.

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Ezekiel43

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#23  Edited By Ezekiel43
Member since 2017 • 2903 Posts

@sancho_panzer said:
@filthyn00b said:

Why has there been no evolution of the 3d beat em up games? These people too scared to evolve em play it safe with 2d pieces of shit.

I think it's because 3d brawlers are a bastard to control.

Like what?

A couple of years ago, I was fantasizing about a 3D Streets of Rage-L4D-like game. This is a part of what I wrote, the control scheme.

The game has a soft lock on system, meaning the game will slightly adjust the player’s orientation towards enemies. But it doesn’t turn you all the way around, like in Batman or Metal Gear Rising; you need to do that yourself. You also need to face an enemy to block.

  • WASD: Move (Slow run. Character will run fast after a few seconds of running uninterrupted. There is no sprint button, since being able to sprint instantaneously would make combat too easily avoidable.)
  • Mouse button 1: Punch/shoot (item)
  • Mouse button 2: Kick (Player can kick even while holding a gun.)
  • Shift: Evade (Will lean body and take a few quick evasive steps.)
  • Shift + MB1 + move sideways/backwards: Evasive punch
  • Shift + MB2 + move sideways/backwards: Evasive kick
  • Shift + MB1 + move forward: Lunge punch
  • Shift + MB2 + move forward: Lunge kick
  • Ctrl: Block (Blocking an attack still hurts you.)
  • Spacebar: Jump, climb, vault
  • E: Grab enemy
  • C: Look back
  • F: Pick up and drop weapon
  • Q: Rearward elbow strike (Pressing it twice in a row will make the character also turn around whilst hitting rearward.)

I know the control scheme is simplistic enough to be mapped to a controller, but I just don’t care to. There can be a walk button, but I don’t know if I’d even use it. Assign it to some unimportant button, like Left Alt.

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#24  Edited By Sancho_Panzer
Member since 2015 • 1422 Posts

@ezekiel43 said:
@sancho_panzer said:
@filthyn00b said:

Why has there been no evolution of the 3d beat em up games? These people too scared to evolve em play it safe with 2d pieces of shit.

I think it's because 3d brawlers are a bastard to control.

Like what?

A couple of years ago, I was fantasizing about a 3D Streets of Rage-L4D-like game. This is a part of what I wrote, the control scheme.

The game has a soft lock on system, meaning the game will slightly adjust the player’s orientation towards enemies. But it doesn’t turn you all the way around, like in Batman or Metal Gear Rising; you need to do that yourself. You also need to face an enemy to block.

  • WASD: Move (Slow run. Character will run fast after a few seconds of running uninterrupted. There is no sprint button, since being able to sprint instantaneously would make combat too easily avoidable.)
  • Mouse button 1: Punch/shoot (item)
  • Mouse button 2: Kick (Player can kick even while holding a gun.)
  • Shift: Evade (Will lean body and take a few quick evasive steps.)
  • Shift + MB1 + move sideways/backwards: Evasive punch
  • Shift + MB2 + move sideways/backwards: Evasive kick
  • Shift + MB1 + move forward: Lunge punch
  • Shift + MB2 + move forward: Lunge kick
  • Ctrl: Block (Blocking an attack still hurts you.)
  • Spacebar: Jump, climb, vault
  • E: Grab enemy
  • C: Look back
  • F: Pick up and drop weapon
  • Q: Rearward elbow strike (Pressing it twice in a row will make the character also turn around.)

I know the control scheme is simplistic enough to be mapped to a controller, but I just don’t care to. There can be a walk button, but I don’t know if I’d even use it. Assign it to some unimportant button, like Left Alt.

Well, there you go - maybe it's totally do-able. I'll be honest, just looking at that list gives me a headache. I'd love it if someone could pull it off in a way that didn't, and maybe in reality, this one would feel quite natural.

My personal issue is I usually get peeved with most 3rd person mouse-controlled action games. There's a point where continual quick transitioning between forward facing and backward facing whilst maintaining a hold to the left or right causes me to keep slipping off my mousemat. It's frustrating, and I figure it's part of the reason that mouse turning often involves an on-screen cursor on PC. That looks weird though, breaks immersion and is visually confusing to boot. I don't know what the answer is, and I figure that's why 3rd person action games are best played on controller.

If you can map this to a controller, could be you're onto a winning forumula. I'd give it a try but can guarantee you I'd suck, mouse or controller.

*Edit*

To try and explain a bit better what I mean by mouse control being frustrating with external camera: It's an issue with holding a direction. On controller, you simply hold the stick in that direction, relative to the dead-zone. On mouse, you have no absolute dead-zone - it's all relative, so to confirm you want to continue holding in a particular direction rather than reverting to dead-zone, you need to keep pushing the mouse that way. Hence all the problems with drifting off the mouse-mat. Don't know if that clarified at all - it's not easy to articulate what I mean without demonstrating.

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DocSanchez

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#25 DocSanchez
Member since 2013 • 5528 Posts

Max.

Max's Son.

Max's Wife.

Max's tag team partner, Dax.

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#26 DocSanchez
Member since 2013 • 5528 Posts
@filthyn00b said:

3D, enough of the 2d shit.

No body wants this, on the entire planet. Not even you.

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#27 my_user_name
Member since 2019 • 301 Posts

@ConanTheStoner:

That looks pretty cool. Will have to check it out.

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ConanTheStoner

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#28 ConanTheStoner
Member since 2011 • 19470 Posts

Eh, we already have games that are essentially the 3d evolution of the beat em up. God Hand, DMC, Ninja Gaiden, Bayonetta, etc.

All different takes, and they're great games.

Supposedly some of the Yakuza titles scratch that itch too? Idk, never really got into them.

I'm sure a 3d SoR could be great. Would love to see what Platinum could do with the IP.

But would be a completely different thing. What works in 2d doesn't translate to 3d and vice versa. And while the great 3d titles are pretty rare as is, the great 2d beat em ups are basically a unicorn.

SOR4 being as good as it is was a shock, would rather see the series continue in this direction.