We need to admit that Persona 5 was one of the most botched releases in recent memory.

Because it was. Dumbest console exclusivity ever for the longest time, and a flawed and rushed original product.

The original was basically an incomplete mess of a game with many flaws, from poor design decisions, to poor dungeon design, to an inconsistent story and a clunkier of a finale, to bad localization, to clearly homophobic scenes being in the game. How it was praised so highly is beyond me, and really I am thankful that ATLUS, instead of being satisfied with blind praise from idiotic mindless critics, saw the game for what it was, a very flawed game that needed vast improvements.

And we got them, for the most part, Royal was excellent. It fixes almost everything and re-contextualizes the game. It introduces one of the best JRPG antagonists of all time, brings in a meaningful third semester and a great new character (unlike P4 Golden) that relegates the original P5 finale to just a narrative speed bump, improves dungeon design and many gameplay elements. If it lost the adult romances and gained LGBT romance options like say, Yusuke and Akechi, and lost some of the slapstick, the game could have been the best JRPG ever.

But it should have been multiplatform by then. It was one of the dumbest exclusives ever. Not only that, people who had the original had to pay full price for the upgrade. Then they release a extremely essential and narratively masterful sequel, Strikers, on multiple platforms, while P5R was just for Playstation. Then had Joker be in Smash despite P5R not being on Switch then. And now the PC and Switch versions are selling a full price, while PS5 players cannot upgrade their PS4 version.

This game could have sold far more copies if Royal was multiplat to begin with, and Strikers would have sold more as well.

Or maybe Persona 6 can also get it right the first time and not need an upgraded version, while releasing on all platforms.

We must have played different games.

No, the original P5 just wasn't very good.

Royal makes P5 fantastic and Strikers completes it. Hell Strikers did what the original tried to do and did it better, especially the final villain.

Sony must have paid all them critics off for it to score so high TC.

That does sound pretty dumb. Luckily, I don't care about the game.

Game sucks. Royal included.

This series caused a lot of cow tears when it was announced at the Xbox show...a lot of tears

I played P5 three times and loved it. I played P5R once and loved it, and will do two more runs on the steam deck eventually. Royal is better, but it's still 90% the same game.

I really couldn't care less about sales, but Persona is going multiplat like every other SEGA game, so the next one will probably be day one if not relatively close.

@texasgoldrush: What is essentially a glorified DLC expansion disguised as a new version, is not enough to make a shit game as you describe into not a shit game.

Perhaps you are just being hyperbolic through the roof with your OP, but you can't turn a pile of shit into a nugget of gold just for sprinkling a little bit of that DLC pixie magic over it.

So it would have been the best game ever for having gay romance options?

Fantastic take, OP. Then again, you’re the same person who argues Dark Souls II is great.

Not everything needs to include homosexual characters or options. People are able to hold different beliefs and convictions. If the creators of a game or any other type of media doesn't want to propagate the LGBT folk, they don't have to. I personally don't play games to live out my life vicariously through a virtual character because of a lack of personal relationships in my life.

@texasgoldrush: dumb post I’ve read in a while, and I’m known to make dumb posts. I beat p5 and the game was fantastic. Someone said that there isn’t much difference between the 2, and that there’s 90% of the same game. I have just started p5r but that’s the vibe I’m getting from it.

You bashing it for not being multiplatform is legitimate though, but what does that have to do with the game itself??

Nothing wrong with the p5 ending either, which I liked!! Gundams are always cool.

Except there were scenes with these two characters that were clearly homophobic, which Royal did make adjustments to.

And no, their lack of LGBT options is clearly lazy, especially when Yusuke and Akechi would easily be natural fits for romance options. Oh, and Akechi is the most popular character in Japan and thats why his role is expanded in Royal.

Welcome to the real world.

The ending sucks because it fails to wrap up P5 in a cohesive thematic manner at all, while relying on an out of nowhere cop out god villain. Its fitting that the last dungeon there was the sin of sloth because thats what the finale was, sloth.

And there is a world of difference between the two.

Odd opinion but we all have them, I guess. I for one quite enjoyed Persona 5. The most fun I had with a turn-based game and I hate these kind of games usually. Gotta get to the Royal version eventually.

well, thats one part of a great game that you don't like. The rest of us don't really care, we're not movie gamers, not hollywood, we aint that complicated. We're just dude bros, gimme my club, gimme some fire and im happy type of gamers. We're happy enough with the god villain ending.

Though now I am interested in seeing how p5r is different or even better than p5.

Halo Infinite has lapped that.

Never played the original myself, have started playing Royal recently though, but I find it extremely difficult to believe that it could possibly be considered as “one of the most botched” releases in recent history. Actually I’m just going to go out on a limb and say I simply don’t believe it. 😅

Hard disagree, enjoyed vanilla P5 a lot.

i only played orginal, have no idea whats wrong with it even after reading TC complaints

Poor dungeon design.......Royal fixes it.

Spotty narrative and a weak ending.......Royal fixes it

They fixed the confidents and day to day system as well.

I consider the original P5 to be like the theatrical version of Kingdom of Heaven, fun in places, but hollow and doesn't work.

P5 Royal is like the Director's Cut of Kingdom of Heaven, with what they added completely fixes almost all its problems and re-contextualizes the experience.

P5R has vastly improved dungeon design and battle system, two fantastic new characters and an extra semester with some of the best storytelling in the game with a new dungeon (best in the game), added cutscenes to give the vanilla story more context, new locations to explore, boss fights are reworked for the better, new Personas to use, etc.

Very significant upgrade.

@texasgoldrush: oh wow, thats excellent to hear! Good thing i picked Royal up on a sale for 20 smacks months ago on the ps5. I'll get to it eventually. Gotta finish FF7R. At least im done with that godawful Ragnarok everyone seems to adore.

I loved Persona 5, just a shame it was way too long. I didn't bother with P5 Royal

Yet you shouldn't have to for a third party game.

No, in this game is an underage boy dating adult women, including his teacher.

The game was a hit on Playstation. Xbox and Nintendo owners failed it. Waste of a port

Or its full price for a game that has been out awhile.

I don't think that matters if these bases haven't played it. Wasn't the port built from the ground up for these platforms too?

Even back when Persona 5 was first announced, Charizard1405 at the time wouldn't shut up about it and hype that game to death in SW, he made me play it and I enjoy it.

(If you are reading this Charz, please come back for Persona 6. I still worship you for your return)

Firstly, this is empty hyperbole. The game functioned from start to finish when it launched, and offered a thoroughly entertaining (if uneven) campaign. That automatically disqualifies it from any discussion of "botched releases".

Secondly, I don't think Royal is definitively better than P5. It broke as much as it fixed.

The original release had a problem where the story hits its natural peak (at the ship, finishing the central plot, the main villain, the main character's story arc and the betrayal plot) and then keeps going past the climax of the story until it awkwardly falls apart (Mementos onwards).

Royal buggers up the pacing even further. Not only are there more empty sequences between main plot points, and more cutscenes between important cutscenes, and more characters who don't get relevant until after the finale...but the story extends for an additional 20ish hours beyond the actual climax of the story.

I think that would be fine if the new semester wasn't just a wacky what-if scenario, loosely tied in with the plot, and having virtually no consequences for the core cast moving forwards. It feels weird that Royal's story ends with a focus on such an irrelevant boss, a character who has nothing to do with the plot of the first 80 hours of the game.

P4G had the same problem. The story hit a natural conclusion, and 20 hours later you're fighting the villain behind the villain behind the villain behind the villain. It's lazy, overindulgent storytelling, and it weakens the otherwise strong arc of the core story.

WRONG. The new arc and villain are wildly praised and seen by consensus as the strongest points of the entire game.

The entire new arc re-contextualizes the entire game, and switches the climax. Now Shido and his conspiracy LEAD to the final conflict. And no, the the new semester was not a whacky what if scenario, it shows how much damage Shido did to the thieves, and all throughout the game, the antagonist consulling the thieves led to this.

The foil between the Royal villain and the thieves are well established all throughout the game.

The Yaldoboath arc now becomes a speed bump for the main conflict. It is the problem, not the new arc.

Royal finds the main theme that P5 originally lacked, the value of overcoming personal struggles, and this theme continues into Strikers. Its all about theme, thats what Royal royally improved upon.

Don't get me wrong, I liked the new story episode. It's a fun, self-contained personal journey for two characters that weren't present in the original game, and who had no significant role to play in Shido's or Yaldoboath's plans.

I'd say it doesn't fit the central story arc because, well, the central story has a natural rythym to it. It starts with the Phantom Thieves rebelling against their immediate authority figure (a school teacher), then escalates to bigger and bigger establishments - the arts, crime syndicates, major corporations, the justice system, the government, the nation, and finally god. The stakes get higher and higher as they get closer to the heart of the conspiracy.

Then you hit the Royal story, where that tension and escalation is totally gone, the conspiracy is gone, and you're facing a different character who isn't particulalry a villain, and wasn't actively opposed to the main characters? A lot of the Royal explores the background of these two new characters, in the same vein as the Futaba or Okimura chapters, and it would have fit the natual arc better to have these personal chapters appear earlier in the story. Instead, the Royal now runs as personal mini-stories -> team finds its resolve to confront its biggest adversary - > personal mini-story-with-a-new-adversary. It disrupts the flow and detracts from the natural climax of the story.

@Planeforger: No, Maruki is the central story and that is the point. The game is once again about the value of overcoming struggles and the fulfillment from it. The conspiracy only sets up this theme.

The out of place element is Yaldoboath, plain and simple. He comes basically out of nowhere, does not feel natural to the story, and the section of the game is completely rushed. In fact, with minor changes, you can delete the entire section from Royal, it is that insignificant. Really Akechi should have been the main villain in the original, not only being a foil to the Joker, his arc is far better and fitting for a finale than Yaldoboath.

You can easily go from Shido's chapter to the new chapter and the game would have been better for it.

And no, the new villain is by far the most dangerous of the cast (outside Yaldoboath) and the escalation actually continued. He actually threatens free will itself. And Strikers brings out villains more on the new villain's level, not Shido's.

"I called it a "What If" scenario because it feels like a Christmas episode, full of temporary wish-fulfilment for the main characters. What if this character was still alive? What if this character got what they wanted? etc.

Obviously it was nice to see the characters play out these scenarios, but that ultimately meant the ending of Royal left the characters in exactly the same place as the ending of P5. Sure, they've got a slightly different outlook on life, but since everything reversed at the end of Royal, none of it really had any consequences for the main cast."

Except that it did with the experience they got and it shows up in Strikers. Nevermind Strikers continues this theme from Royal's third semester.

What bugs me is the fact that it took 8 years after Persona 4 released to get another. I played Persona 3 and 4 back when they released on PS2 I felt this was a series that definitely needed more exposure than being just locked on PlayStation consoles. Or even until now just to finally see it be releasing more broadly on other systems.

Atlua did at least make the Persona 4: The Golden for Vita and Catherine during that time, and those are great games, but I feel they really let an opportunity slip through their fingers to give the series the attention it deserved with a more widely available and accessible release in that gap. Them testing the waters with spin-offs was a bad idea IMO, with Persona Arena and Persona Q titles, also great games, just not the kind of games that should have been used to test the viability of of the franchise's mainline entries on other systems. At least finally now they have a clue. I actually think Persona 5 released in a decent state and the content added with Royal definitely made it better.

There was a definitely a missed opportunity post-P4 to bring it to other systems and grow the base. It was especially a ripe opportunity that went ignored because FFXIII took forever to release and people were somewhat disappointed by the end result of that. I think Persona could have really done well in those years to fill a holes for JRPGs left by Square Enix bogging down the FF series in that time. That same potential rivaly even came to be eventually during the lead-up to Persona 5's initial release when it was pitted against FFXV which had been in development for what seemed like forever since it originally was supposed to be Final Fantasy Versus XIII and took a decade to make. Square Enix even did a poll asking if both games released at same time which one would people get. Just the idea they'd even ask, or even I remember people discussing the implications of the poll and which game they preferred, it showed there was some real competition being offered up by Atlus/Sega. Persona 5 deservedly went on to sell very well with both its releases on PlayStation and it seemed Atlus/Sega finally got a clue they had something special. That sort of irks me that it took so long and they're finally treating the series with the attention it should have received years back by finally bringing it to other systems, but better late than never I guess.

In some ways I thought the original was better than Royal, because the latter was way easier and I want a good challenge. The powerups / equipment you got from José and boss fights made Royal too easy. If I remember correctly, after Madarame you get an armor (powerup?) that removes all weaknesses of your Persona. Ridiculous.

Funny, how Elden Ring borrows from Dark Souls II the most.

First off, Royal makes the boss fights harder, especially Okumura and Shido.

But yeah, Royal is easier to exploit...........however, the flow of the original just sucks. For example, the gameplay flow and how systems works together really break down in Okumura's palace in the original, while the dungeon itself sucked. Not only the quality of life is lacking, its systems conflicted with eachother.