Valve getting sued by.....Austrailia

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Avatar image for mr_huggles_dog
#1 Posted by Mr_Huggles_dog (7805 posts) -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7o0CijdNl4&list=PLQ2uc-bCRaPcJkyZqhI1HoDVcoqHPx79o

So apparently Aussies are mad that Valve/Steam makes it nearly impossible to get a refund.

Steam is great don't get me wrong....but when you're the flagship of PC gaming you need to have a department working on customer relations....which includes refunds.

Avatar image for clyde46
#2 Posted by clyde46 (49050 posts) -

Steam is bound in the UK to give a refund within 7 days of purchase. Thing is, they will give you a refund then ban your account after that.

Avatar image for getyeryayasout
#3 Posted by getyeryayasout (11491 posts) -

Crikey!

Avatar image for ghostwarrior786
#4 Edited by ghostwarrior786 (5811 posts) -

this is why consoles are so far ahead of pc and why pc will never appeal to the casuals. well 1 of the reasons

Avatar image for clyde46
#5 Posted by clyde46 (49050 posts) -

@ghostwarrior786 said:

this is why consoles are so far ahead of pc and why pc will never appeal to the casuals. well 1 of the reasons

You want to try and get a refund when buying through XBL? I remember them saying they didn't do refunds.

Avatar image for bldgirsh
#6 Edited by BldgIrsh (3044 posts) -

A refund policy would become abusive if not done right. So I could see some limitations being added.

Avatar image for lostrib
#7 Posted by lostrib (49999 posts) -

@ghostwarrior786 said:

this is why consoles are so far ahead of pc and why pc will never appeal to the casuals. well 1 of the reasons

in what way is console "so far ahead" of PC?

Avatar image for Comduter
#8 Posted by Comduter (2313 posts) -

Steam doesn't deserve it's reputation due to its non-existant customer service and severe compatibility issues with many of its games. If Left 4 Dead 2 and Team Fortress 2 didn't require Steam to play, then I wouldn't be using it at all. I hope the Aussies win.

Avatar image for lostrib
#9 Posted by lostrib (49999 posts) -

@Comduter said:

Steam doesn't deserve it's reputation due to its non-existant customer service and severe compatibility issues with many of its games. If Left 4 Dead 2 and Team Fortress 2 didn't require Steam to play, then I wouldn't be using it at all. I hope the Aussies win.

how many?

Avatar image for ghostwarrior786
#10 Posted by ghostwarrior786 (5811 posts) -

@clyde46 said:

@ghostwarrior786 said:

this is why consoles are so far ahead of pc and why pc will never appeal to the casuals. well 1 of the reasons

You want to try and get a refund when buying through XBL? I remember them saying they didn't do refunds.

why would they? all games on xbl are guaranteed to work with the system so its up to the consumer to research the game before buying it instead of bitching to get a refund

@lostrib said:

@ghostwarrior786 said:

this is why consoles are so far ahead of pc and why pc will never appeal to the casuals. well 1 of the reasons

in what way is console "so far ahead" of PC?

0 compatibility issues, better exclusives, less hassle, cheaper hardware, no messing around with drivers

Avatar image for edwardecl
#11 Posted by edwardecl (2240 posts) -

I'm kinda with Valve on this issue though, the only reason a refund should be given is if the product is not as advertised or is defective and not fixed within a reasonable time.

All this early access shit should be exempt from refunds because it's quite clearly stated is not a finished product and may never be, buy at your own risk.

Avatar image for parkurtommo
#12 Posted by parkurtommo (28295 posts) -

@clyde46 said:

Steam is bound in the UK to give a refund within 7 days of purchase. Thing is, they will give you a refund then ban your account after that.

Really? Any proof of that? :/

Avatar image for mr_huggles_dog
#13 Posted by Mr_Huggles_dog (7805 posts) -

@edwardecl said:

I'm kinda with Valve on this issue though, the only reason a refund should be given is if the product is not as advertised or is defective and not fixed within a reasonable time.

All this early access shit should be exempt from refunds because it's quite clearly stated is not a finished product and may never be, buy at your own risk.

I actually agree.

While I think Early Access crap is just the bane of gaming....it should be known that they are not complete games. No refund should be given for being ignorant.

That said...there should be a refund policy or department. When Steam was growing I had bought GTA:SA and for some reason it was on an account or under an account name that I didn't use. I didn't even know I had 2 accounts....I dunno...I was something really screwed up and it was from them changing the way they were doing Steam.

So I never will play that game that I paid for, b/c I have the account that I'm using now.

In those situations there should be a refund....there are always special cases.

Avatar image for funsohng
#14 Edited by funsohng (29896 posts) -

Oh I thought they were suing them for making their country like this in TF2:

Avatar image for clyde46
#16 Posted by clyde46 (49050 posts) -

@parkurtommo said:

@clyde46 said:

Steam is bound in the UK to give a refund within 7 days of purchase. Thing is, they will give you a refund then ban your account after that.

Really? Any proof of that? :/

I remember hearing reports of it. Not sure how it was happening though. I know that Valve does not let you do charge backs so maybe thats why accounts were banned. Still, if I asked for a refund and then had my account banned I'd go to court and sue them,

Avatar image for remiks00
#17 Posted by remiks00 (3794 posts) -

@edwardecl said:

I'm kinda with Valve on this issue though, the only reason a refund should be given is if the product is not as advertised or is defective and not fixed within a reasonable time.

All this early access shit should be exempt from refunds because it's quite clearly stated is not a finished product and may never be, buy at your own risk.

pretty much this. /thread austrailia

Avatar image for lostrib
#18 Posted by lostrib (49999 posts) -

@ghostwarrior786: so mostly bullshit?

Avatar image for PsychoLemons
#19 Posted by PsychoLemons (3174 posts) -

M'kay.

Avatar image for Comduter
#20 Edited by Comduter (2313 posts) -

@lostrib said:

@Comduter said:

Steam doesn't deserve it's reputation due to its non-existant customer service and severe compatibility issues with many of its games. If Left 4 Dead 2 and Team Fortress 2 didn't require Steam to play, then I wouldn't be using it at all. I hope the Aussies win.

how many?

How should I know exactly? 125? I know that Supreme Commander, GTA 1, GTA Vice City, Dark Forces 2 and Return To Castle Wolfenstein don't work for me at least

Avatar image for lostrib
#21 Posted by lostrib (49999 posts) -

@Comduter: you said many. So what do you consider "many of its games"?

Avatar image for FreedomFreeLife
#23 Posted by FreedomFreeLife (3948 posts) -

Why would you get refund when you buying game, playing it and then you want refund? You knew what you buying. So you don´t need refund

Avatar image for longtonguecat
#24 Posted by longtonguecat (2545 posts) -

I've been given a refund before, the support stuff seem pretty understanding if its a valid reason. I'm ok with how the system works at the moment. (also am Australian)

Avatar image for lostrib
#25 Posted by lostrib (49999 posts) -

@FreedomFreeLife said:

Why would you get refund when you buying game, playing it and then you want refund? You knew what you buying. So you don´t need refund

why do you still post?

Avatar image for Comduter
#26 Edited by Comduter (2313 posts) -

@lostrib said:

@Comduter: you said many. So what do you consider "many of its games"?

125 games.

Avatar image for lostrib
#27 Posted by lostrib (49999 posts) -

@Comduter said:

@lostrib said:

@Comduter: you said many. So what do you consider "many of its games"?

125 games.

source on these 125 games having severe compatibility issues?

Avatar image for Comduter
#28 Posted by Comduter (2313 posts) -
@lostrib said:

@Comduter said:

@lostrib said:

@Comduter: you said many. So what do you consider "many of its games"?

125 games.

source on these 125 games having severe compatibility issues?

The forums for these games.

Avatar image for WilliamRLBaker
#29 Posted by WilliamRLBaker (28915 posts) -

@clyde46: depends on the circumstances I purchased shadow complex twice accidentally and they refunded the second purchase.

Avatar image for adamosmaki
#30 Posted by adamosmaki (10566 posts) -

@clyde46 said:

@parkurtommo said:

@clyde46 said:

Steam is bound in the UK to give a refund within 7 days of purchase. Thing is, they will give you a refund then ban your account after that.

Really? Any proof of that? :/

I remember hearing reports of it. Not sure how it was happening though. I know that Valve does not let you do charge backs so maybe thats why accounts were banned. Still, if I asked for a refund and then had my account banned I'd go to court and sue them,

Rumors which i highly doubt are true considering i asked for a refund and i had no problem ( not in UK but another EU country and i never actually installed the game i accidentally bought so that might have played a role ). Of course it took over a month and lots of emails to achieve it but still

I agree though they need a much better refund policy

Avatar image for adamosmaki
#31 Posted by adamosmaki (10566 posts) -

@ghostwarrior786 said:

@clyde46 said:

@ghostwarrior786 said:

this is why consoles are so far ahead of pc and why pc will never appeal to the casuals. well 1 of the reasons

You want to try and get a refund when buying through XBL? I remember them saying they didn't do refunds.

why would they? all games on xbl are guaranteed to work with the system so its up to the consumer to research the game before buying it instead of bitching to get a refund

0 compatibility issues, better exclusives, less hassle, cheaper hardware, no messing around with drivers

and this is different than researching a game on pc before buying how ?

But then again i guess you guys are used to games been a slideshow running well under 30fps that you pretty much will play anything no matter the optimization issues

Also if you are messing around with drivers and have hassle with pc nowdays one of the 2 is happening.

1. You are completely clueless about pc's and you are doing something terribly wrong for reasons i cannot explain

or 2. You had bad hardware which is quite rare nowdays ( rarer than consoles at least ) and thats not a problem on pc gaming

Oh and pc exclusives >>>>>>> consoles exclusives ( this year alone pc had more high rated exclusives than all consoles combined that should really tell you something )

Avatar image for RoboCopISJesus
#32 Edited by RoboCopISJesus (2222 posts) -

@ghostwarrior786 said:

this is why consoles are so far ahead of pc and why pc will never appeal to the casuals. well 1 of the reasons

Steam has more users concurrent than psn or xbl combined last time checked for each. PC has more sales than all consoles combined. The most played games on the planet are all on PC.

XBL and PSN are jokes compared to steam. The wannabe Steam sales they have are laughable. Their e-sports and competitive gaming scenes are practically dead in comparison. They have the fraction of the high-scoring (or otherwise) libraries across both systems. They don't have mod support, they patch later, the games get less updates, the communities shift to the next game and leave the last for dead, the wannabe twitch doesn't begin to compete w/ PC's numbers...etc. You're paying monthly for something that is worse in every way. You get the point.

In what respect are consoles far ahead in?

Avatar image for mr_huggles_dog
#33 Edited by Mr_Huggles_dog (7805 posts) -

@RoboCopISJesus said:

@ghostwarrior786 said:

this is why consoles are so far ahead of pc and why pc will never appeal to the casuals. well 1 of the reasons

PC has more sales than all consoles combined.

False.

Avatar image for Cloud_imperium
#34 Posted by Cloud_imperium (14387 posts) -

@mr_huggles_dog said:

@RoboCopISJesus said:

@ghostwarrior786 said:

this is why consoles are so far ahead of pc and why pc will never appeal to the casuals. well 1 of the reasons

PC has more sales than all consoles combined.

False.

True . Google it . Both PC hardware and software market have surpassed console revenue .

Avatar image for deactivated-597794cd74015
#36 Edited by deactivated-597794cd74015 (961 posts) -

@mr_huggles_dog said:

@RoboCopISJesus said:

@ghostwarrior786 said:

this is why consoles are so far ahead of pc and why pc will never appeal to the casuals. well 1 of the reasons

PC has more sales than all consoles combined.

False.

Simply saying "false" does not make you right my simple-minded friend.

Avatar image for mr_huggles_dog
#37 Edited by Mr_Huggles_dog (7805 posts) -

@Cloud_imperium said:

@mr_huggles_dog said:

@RoboCopISJesus said:

@ghostwarrior786 said:

this is why consoles are so far ahead of pc and why pc will never appeal to the casuals. well 1 of the reasons

PC has more sales than all consoles combined.

False.

True . Google it . Both PC hardware and software market have surpassed console revenue .

I'm confused....are you counting every piece of software for PC. B/c you don't have nearly the amount of software for consoles as you do for PC.

So are you counting like MS Office, Turbo Tax, Norton and the like...or just games?

And yeah...since theres nothing hardware wise to buy for consoles theres gonna be more PC sales....thats a no shit statement....and apples and oranges.

Avatar image for RoboCopISJesus
#38 Posted by RoboCopISJesus (2222 posts) -

aww, poor huggles lying and trolling again.

Avatar image for adamosmaki
#39 Posted by adamosmaki (10566 posts) -

@mr_huggles_dog said:

@Cloud_imperium said:

@mr_huggles_dog said:

@RoboCopISJesus said:

@ghostwarrior786 said:

this is why consoles are so far ahead of pc and why pc will never appeal to the casuals. well 1 of the reasons

PC has more sales than all consoles combined.

False.

True . Google it . Both PC hardware and software market have surpassed console revenue .

I'm confused....are you counting every piece of software for PC. B/c you don't have nearly the amount of software for consoles as you do for PC.

So are you counting like MS Office, Turbo Tax, Norton and the like...or just games?

And yeah...since theres nothing hardware wise to buy for consoles theres gonna be more PC sales....thats a no shit statement....and apples and oranges.

Just games you troll. And nothing hardware wise to buy for consoles ? Then what are the consoles themselves ? Imaginary item running on magic ?

Avatar image for mr_huggles_dog
#40 Edited by Mr_Huggles_dog (7805 posts) -

Ok...well I'm done with this conversation.

I ask a specific question and get called a troll which is about as severe here as spanking a dead guy.

Then you have ridiculous concepts like "what are consoles, dur....they're hardware"....as if seperate CPU, GPU, RAM, sound cards, cases, heat sinks, and pre built PCs all are going to be masked by 1 system with all that in it already.

Yeah...that makes lots of sense. You can upgrade a PC....you can't a console....I don't see how that even is comparable.

You call me a troll....I call you a dumbass.

Avatar image for ghostwarrior786
#41 Posted by ghostwarrior786 (5811 posts) -

@lostrib said:

@ghostwarrior786: so mostly bullshit?

no just facts

Avatar image for Cloud_imperium
#42 Edited by Cloud_imperium (14387 posts) -

@mr_huggles_dog said:

@Cloud_imperium said:

@mr_huggles_dog said:

@RoboCopISJesus said:

@ghostwarrior786 said:

this is why consoles are so far ahead of pc and why pc will never appeal to the casuals. well 1 of the reasons

PC has more sales than all consoles combined.

False.

True . Google it . Both PC hardware and software market have surpassed console revenue .

I'm confused....are you counting every piece of software for PC. B/c you don't have nearly the amount of software for consoles as you do for PC.

So are you counting like MS Office, Turbo Tax, Norton and the like...or just games?

And yeah...since theres nothing hardware wise to buy for consoles theres gonna be more PC sales....thats a no shit statement....and apples and oranges.

1. I am talking about games . PC gaming revenue have surpassed consoles . Even if most of them are generated from online games , we shouldn't forget about casual games on consoles like GTA , FIFA , Madden etc that make billions . If someone thinks majority of console revenue is generated from "Amazing Exclusives" then it is ignorance and laughable .

2. Read point one in bold .

3. PC gaming hardware sales have surpassed consoles . nVIDIA sold more GPUs in 2013 then they ever did in history .

4. Looks like you've edited the comment , where you said Rockstar delayed PC version of GTA (so called "biggest game of last gen" . LOL) . May be you forgot that PS4 and Xbox One version are coming out alongside PC and the game was made primarily for current gen platforms . Anyone with common sense can tell you that . Current gen version uses completely different assets than gimped last gen version .

5. PC is making more money and you can already see the results . Console focused devs that never released their games on PC for ages are bringing their titles back to PC . Recent example is MGS 5 . Hell ,even Tekken 7 is coming to PC and new online shopping centers have listed WWE 2015 for PC . Not to mention upcoming AAA titles like Unreal Tournament , Star Citizen , Everquest Next and so on . I think they are fools to release their games on PC because "it is not profitable" . Every platform gets delayed ports , at least on PC it is worth it because it gets better version . My favorite game of last gen was Mass Effect 2 (yours must be GTA 5) and it was released one year later on PS3 while first game was after 4 years . On other hand you got half assed version of Crysis after 4 years .

Avatar image for mr_huggles_dog
#44 Edited by Mr_Huggles_dog (7805 posts) -

@Cloud_imperium said:

@mr_huggles_dog said:

@Cloud_imperium said:

@mr_huggles_dog said:

@RoboCopISJesus said:

@ghostwarrior786 said:

this is why consoles are so far ahead of pc and why pc will never appeal to the casuals. well 1 of the reasons

PC has more sales than all consoles combined.

False.

True . Google it . Both PC hardware and software market have surpassed console revenue .

I'm confused....are you counting every piece of software for PC. B/c you don't have nearly the amount of software for consoles as you do for PC.

So are you counting like MS Office, Turbo Tax, Norton and the like...or just games?

And yeah...since theres nothing hardware wise to buy for consoles theres gonna be more PC sales....thats a no shit statement....and apples and oranges.

1. I am talking about games . PC gaming revenue have surpassed consoles . Even if most of them are generated from online games , we shouldn't forget about casual games on consoles like GTA , FIFA , Madden etc that make billions . If someone thinks majority of console revenue is generated from "Amazing Exclusives" then it is ignorance and laughable .

2. Read point one in bold .

3. PC gaming hardware sales have surpassed consoles . nVIDIA sold more GPUs in 2013 then they ever did in history .

4. Looks like you've edited the comment , where you said Rockstar delayed PC version of GTA (so called "biggest game of last gen" . LOL) . May be you forgot that PS4 and Xbox One version are coming out alongside PC and the game was made primarily for current gen platforms . Anyone with common sense can tell you that . Current gen version uses completely different assets than gimped last gen version .

5. PC is making more money and you can already see the results . Console focused devs that never released their games on PC for ages are bringing their titles back to PC . Recent example is MGS 5 . Hell ,even Tekken 7 is coming to PC and new online shopping centers have listed WWE 2015 for PC . Not to mention upcoming AAA titles like Unreal Tournament , Star Citizen , Everquest Next and so on . I think they are fools to release their games on PC because "it is not profitable" . Every platform gets delayed ports , at least on PC it is worth it because it gets better version . My favorite game of last gen was Mass Effect 2 (yours must be GTA 5) and it was released one year later on PS3 while first game was after 4 years . On other hand you got half assed version of Crysis after 4 years .

You're straight up lying.

Steam doesn't release it's sales and NO ONE buys PC games retail anymore. So thats a load of bullshit...I don't know what world you're living in or what crack pot article you read....but it's shit.

Again....GTA V...you have to wait for. Doesn't fucking matter why. If PC was important to them...they would have released it. What does it matter if it was "along side the next gen release"....so fucking what? They're not going to release a next gen version on PC....so it doens't matter.

So even if we take your theory into account, no they wanted the 7th gen console version to be as good as possible...so they made the master race wait so they could focus on the console version....putting the PC version on the backburner.

And the fact that you think GTA V wasn't the biggest game of last year....makes me laugh. It might not be the most popular or whatever among the "elite" but given the fact that it made history the way it did....almost EVERYFUCKINGBODY bought that game.....

,....except PC gamers.

And Rockstar isn't the only one. CDPR, who PC gamers praise....went to console....Blizzard when to console....Crytek went to console.....

Do you see a trend here? I'm not talking out of my ass.

Consoles....are where the money is.

That shit is a fucking fact of life....whether you want to believe your own manipulation is your delusion..not mine.

Avatar image for 7mdma
#45 Edited by 7MDMA (315 posts) -

Even if retail games like GTA 5 make more money from consoles doesn't mean PC isn't the best platform to play those games. Better graphics, better performance and mods to enhance an aspect of a game you want improved.

PC gamers have more games than time so the waiting isn't an issue at all and when we get the game it's invariably better than the console version.

PS: Anyone else sick of seeing that dudes face on the Aim Down Sights promo? It's gotten to the point that it's detracting from my enjoyment of this board.

Avatar image for chaplainDMK
#46 Posted by chaplainDMK (7004 posts) -

@Comduter said:

Steam doesn't deserve it's reputation due to its non-existant customer service and severe compatibility issues with many of its games. If Left 4 Dead 2 and Team Fortress 2 didn't require Steam to play, then I wouldn't be using it at all. I hope the Aussies win.

Precisely, Steam is an abomination. Yet people are creaming their pants all over it for years.

And when EA comes out with Origin people bi***.

Avatar image for which_wich
#47 Edited by which_wich (189 posts) -

@lostrib said:

@Comduter said:

Steam doesn't deserve it's reputation due to its non-existant customer service and severe compatibility issues with many of its games. If Left 4 Dead 2 and Team Fortress 2 didn't require Steam to play, then I wouldn't be using it at all. I hope the Aussies win.

how many?

Avatar image for mr_huggles_dog
#48 Posted by Mr_Huggles_dog (7805 posts) -

@7mdma said:

Even if retail games like GTA 5 make more money from consoles doesn't mean PC isn't the best platform to play those games. Better graphics, better performance and mods to enhance an aspect of a game you want improved.

PC gamers have more games than time so the waiting isn't an issue at all and when we get the game it's invariably better than the console version.

PS: Anyone else sick of seeing that dudes face on the Aim Down Sights promo? It's gotten to the point that it's detracting from my enjoyment of this board.

Better system is subjective. I will agree that the PC has some fantastic advantages. Like you said....better graphics, mods, etc.

But again...all that is subjective. I peronsally think the graphics on the next gen systems are fine and I'm not really a mod person. I've done my share of mods and skins.....they can be a headache and annoy the shit out of you and I've been over them for a long time.

And the point isn't if PC gamers have game to play in the meantime...it's the fact that regardless....they don't get the same professional treatment from companies.

Look at Epic. They ruined the UT series to focus on Gear of War. And then that jackass Cliffy Bnut trolls the PC gaming community. Why?

B/c they don't give a **** about a platform that doesn't give them revenue. Do you really think that a guy representing a company would say that to a group of ppl who were a major source of income??

Heeeeeeelllll no.

Avatar image for 7mdma
#49 Edited by 7MDMA (315 posts) -

@mr_huggles_dog said:

@7mdma said:

Even if retail games like GTA 5 make more money from consoles doesn't mean PC isn't the best platform to play those games. Better graphics, better performance and mods to enhance an aspect of a game you want improved.

PC gamers have more games than time so the waiting isn't an issue at all and when we get the game it's invariably better than the console version.

PS: Anyone else sick of seeing that dudes face on the Aim Down Sights promo? It's gotten to the point that it's detracting from my enjoyment of this board.

Better system is subjective. I will agree that the PC has some fantastic advantages. Like you said....better graphics, mods, etc.

But again...all that is subjective. I peronsally think the graphics on the next gen systems are fine and I'm not really a mod person. I've done my share of mods and skins.....they can be a headache and annoy the shit out of you and I've been over them for a long time.

And the point isn't if PC gamers have game to play in the meantime...it's the fact that regardless....they don't get the same professional treatment from companies.

Look at Epic. They ruined the UT series to focus on Gear of War. And then that jackass Cliffy Bnut trolls the PC gaming community. Why?

B/c they don't give a **** about a platform that doesn't give them revenue. Do you really think that a guy representing a company would say that to a group of ppl who were a major source of income??

Heeeeeeelllll no.

Agree with you on some of that. Some of the retail companies or people working for them do tend to try and trivialize the PC experience. PC is always sort of in the background and the lions share of retail marketing is done toward console which indicates that it's more lucrative for mainstream AAA games.

The former is still a strong market in its own right. I wouldn't be surprised if PC made up roughly 10 % of all sales for any given AAA multi-plat release. (going by data that I saw about Watchdogs sales from Ubisoft at least so hard to tell with Steam being so opaque). PC titles also tend to sell consistently over time and are less front loaded than console releases.

Avatar image for RoboCopISJesus
#50 Edited by RoboCopISJesus (2222 posts) -

@mr_huggles_dog said:

You're straight up lying.

Consoles....are where the money is.

That shit is a fucking fact of life..

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2014/04/analyst-pc-gaming-now-brings-in-more-money-than-console-gaming/

http://www.vg247.com/2014/07/12/pc-gaming-hardware-worth-double-console-gaming-market-value-report/

http://www.twitch.tv/pax/c/5027007

Idiot.