Uncharted 4 was inspired by Anita Sarkeesian's fight against "sexism" in the video game industry.

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thepclovingguy

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#1  Edited By thepclovingguy
Member since 2016 • 2059 Posts

http://kotaku.com/uncharted-4-director-says-they-had-to-ask-one-sexist-fo-1778198178

I hate to post this type of stuff, but uninspiredcup would have done it sooner or later anyway.

Not everyone was happy with new Uncharted 4 characters like Nadine “Triceps” Ross. In fact, according to director Neil Druckmann, his team had to ask an angry focus tester to leave the room after he freaked out over the game’s portrayal of women.

WARNING: Spoilers for Uncharted 4's ending follow.

Druckmann sat down with Kotaku friend Chris Suellentrop for an interview in the newly launched Glixel,an upcoming gaming website by Rolling Stone. (I would make fun of the name Glixel, but hey, ours is Kotaku.) There are a lot of interesting nuggets in there, including Druckmann’s answer to a question about game critic Anita Sarkeesian and how her work has affected Naughty Dog. Read this:

You’ve said in the past that you’ve been influenced by Anita Sarkeesian’sFeminist Frequency videos and the larger conversation about diversity and representation in games. How did that affect Uncharted 4?

Druckmann: When I’m introducing and describing a new character to our lead character concept artist, constantly she will ask, “What if it was a girl?” And I’m like, Oh, I didn’t think about that. Let me think, does that affect or change anything? No? Cool, that’s different. Yeah, let’s do it.

Initially, in the epilogue, it was Nate’s son. Something similar happened with the mansion they go into. That was an old English guy’s house. She asked, Well, what if it was a woman?

You have some sexist focus testers who were really upset by Nadine beating up Nate, and really upset at the end when it was Nate’s daughter. To the point where we had to ask one guy to leave. In his core, it just affected him. He was cursing, “Not you, too, Naughty Dog! Goddammit. I guess I’m done with Uncharted, if you guys ever make another one, with his daughter. This fucking bullshit.”

And I was like, Wow, why does that matter?

Two thoughts:

1) There’s something both hilarious and depressing about the image of an MRA focus group tester coming in and yelling things like “Not you too, Naughty Dog!” because they dared to make Nathan Drake have a daughter instead of a son.

2) No matter your opinions on Sarkeesian and her work, I hope you’ll agree that getting developers to think “What if this were a girl?” rather than assuming a male default is a very good thing for gaming. It’s so easy for writers to fall into the routine of telling only stories about people who act and think like them. Pushing those storytellers to consider other options can lead to way more interesting decisions and way better stories. And hopefully we’ll get to play as Cassie Drake in the DLC.

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Primorandomguy

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#2 Primorandomguy
Member since 2014 • 3368 Posts

Yeah unfortunately this place seems to be full of conservatives.

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dotWithShoes

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#3 dotWithShoes
Member since 2006 • 5588 Posts

The question I ask is this, when you're thinking "What if were a woman," also think is it going to push the story forward better if it is a woman?

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SecretPolice

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#4  Edited By SecretPolice
Member since 2007 • 37219 Posts

Get yo azz in the kitchen and make me a samitch. :P

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thepclovingguy

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#5 thepclovingguy
Member since 2016 • 2059 Posts

@SecretPolice: Bitch, please...

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Seabas989

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#6 Seabas989
Member since 2009 • 13415 Posts

UC always had a shit story so this debate doesn't really matter to me.

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Kruiz_Bathory

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#7 Kruiz_Bathory
Member since 2009 • 4765 Posts

I've never understood these issues.

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SecretPolice

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#8 SecretPolice
Member since 2007 • 37219 Posts

@thepclovingguy:

lol

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panda30

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#9 panda30
Member since 2016 • 941 Posts

Feminist Frequency and Anita are just a bunch of Anty gamer grup in disease NONE of there so call sexisim have to do whit sexisum

all the bitch about is

violence in game

sexuality

and freedom of art

none of witch have to do whit equality or people being sexist on top of that

they make videos lying about games to piss off gamers and then they turn the camera towards the gamers and and say look see they all violent BUT HIDING THE FACT THAT THEY INSTIGATED THE WHOLE THING

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freedomfreak

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#10 freedomfreak
Member since 2004 • 52000 Posts

Nadine was a shitty character that added ****-all to the game.

Laura Bailey is still cool tho

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Junky-trunk

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#11 Junky-trunk
Member since 2016 • 228 Posts

UC4 movie is teh sucks, Quantum Break whoot

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Ant_17

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#12 Ant_17
Member since 2005 • 13619 Posts

I really don't care where they got the idea of the story.

@primorandomguy said:

Yeah unfortunately this place seems to be full of conservatives.

I'm a communist.

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Jagoff

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#13  Edited By Jagoff
Member since 2016 • 515 Posts

This has less to do with the influence and more about how some play testers lost their shit over stupid reasons.

The brief moment Cassie was beautifully done. But Nadine? She was a poorly developed character. As far as baddies go, she was as one-dimensional as they come.

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Chutebox

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#14 Chutebox
Member since 2007 • 46893 Posts

@primorandomguy said:

Yeah unfortunately this place seems to be full of liberals.

Fixed it for ya.

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Primorandomguy

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#15 Primorandomguy
Member since 2014 • 3368 Posts

@Ant_17: Are you really a communist? Or a liberal? Because I know a lot of right wingers call liberals and democrats communists, even though their views don't align in the slightest. Always confused me actually lol.

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Primorandomguy

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#16  Edited By Primorandomguy
Member since 2014 • 3368 Posts

@Chutebox: Lol oh god are you a Republican or a conservative? If so I'm probably going to think you're an idiot. Just a heads up. If you're a trump supporter then I'll definitely think you're a dumbass.

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Chutebox

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#17  Edited By Chutebox
Member since 2007 • 46893 Posts

@primorandomguy said:

@Chutebox: Lol oh god are you a Republican or a conservative? If so I'm probably going to think you're an idiot. Just a heads up. If you're a trump supporter then I'll definitely think you're a dumbass.

Oh boy, you think I care what you think. That's got to be embarrassing for you.

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Ant_17

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#18 Ant_17
Member since 2005 • 13619 Posts

@primorandomguy: Yes, really.

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Sollet

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#19  Edited By Sollet
Member since 2003 • 8171 Posts

Who gives a shit? Game's still awesome regardless of what sex nathans offspring has.

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Primorandomguy

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#21 Primorandomguy
Member since 2014 • 3368 Posts

@Ant_17: Are you from Russia?

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#22 Ant_17
Member since 2005 • 13619 Posts

@primorandomguy: No.

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uninspiredcup

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#23 uninspiredcup  Online
Member since 2013 • 42665 Posts

The age of men is over.

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GarGx1

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#24  Edited By GarGx1
Member since 2011 • 10934 Posts

Modern Femin*zi's (go Gamespot's mangina filter) are a complete joke, they are the most sexist and discriminatory, contradictory 'equal rights' movement to exist. Why on earth anyone, let alone businesses, pander to them is beyond my comprehension. The sufferance movement and the real sacrifices they made are belittled by those self entitled, self righteous, self centred media hogs.

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Chutebox

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#25 Chutebox
Member since 2007 • 46893 Posts

@primorandomguy said:

@Chutebox: Not embarrassing at all. I knew you wouldn't care, I just wish morons like you would start thinking for yourselves or not exist. :)

Damn, you know so much about me. Bravo.

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DaVillain-

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#26 DaVillain-  Moderator
Member since 2014 • 44536 Posts

@uninspiredcup said:

The age of men is over.

You know, I ain't mad.

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Speak_Low

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#27 Speak_Low
Member since 2013 • 2248 Posts

ND are a bunch of sensitive SJWs and white knights lol!11!

This is why you should stop using the "SJW" tag so much in conversations and look at the issues at hand instead. You were all about making fun of anyone fighting against sexism (at least that's what it sounds like from your posts), and now that ND has done it, you have nothing to say.

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deactivated-583e460ca986b

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#28 deactivated-583e460ca986b
Member since 2004 • 7240 Posts

This "representation in video games" thing bugs the shit out of me. If you want there to be games with a minority lead, make it. Don't try to get people to change their vision because of how it makes you feel. Make a game as good or better and show them the right way to do it. Be an innovator instead of shaming people into giving you what you want. Don't talk about it, be about it.

I could go on for days on this topic but I will bite my tongue. This is nothing new for Naughty Dog though. that TLOU DLC was PRAISED by the games media. I won't spoil anything for anyone but it's pretty obvious why...


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Primorandomguy

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#29 Primorandomguy
Member since 2014 • 3368 Posts

@Chutebox: I don't know why people have to be so annoying. If you're conservative or not say it. Don't string people along so you can be condescending. If you're conservative or not isn't my business, but you definitely make yourself out as one with your replies, especially changing my quote.

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Chutebox

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#30 Chutebox
Member since 2007 • 46893 Posts

@primorandomguy said:

@Chutebox: I don't know why people have to be so annoying. If you're conservative or not say it. Don't string people along so you can be condescending. If you're conservative or not isn't my business, but you definitely make yourself out as one with your replies, especially changing my quote.

Oh, I'm the condescending one throwing around insults? Ok pal haha.

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Primorandomguy

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#31 Primorandomguy
Member since 2014 • 3368 Posts

@Chutebox: Partly trolling, I'm definitely not a conservative but I have a friend that's conservative. I think he's pretty dumb but he's not a hateful dick. A good friend at least lol.

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gamecubepad

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#32 gamecubepad
Member since 2003 • 7332 Posts

@primorandomguy said:

Chutebox: Not embarrassing at all. I knew you wouldn't care, I just wish morons like you would start thinking for yourselves or not exist. :)

Oh the irony!

---

ND is known for technical prowess. Aside from the ability of the character artists and lead programmers, they are pretty average. The fact the whole series is a rip-off of female-lead series, in a way marginalizing woman, would point to the need for inclusion. Dude-Raider, right?

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Vaasman

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#33 Vaasman
Member since 2008 • 14684 Posts

This is dumb. If they'd just said nothing and let the story be, as presented, I probably wouldn't have noticed or even cared, which is what you're supposed to shoot for. Instead I now know thanks to the word of god that these characters were only made the way they were simply to fulfill an agenda.

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Zergforlife

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#34  Edited By Zergforlife
Member since 2016 • 467 Posts

Another reason to not like this movie game rental.

@primorandomguy said:

Yeah unfortunately this place seems to be full of conservatives.

I'm not conservative, and even I have noticed how out of control new wave Feminism is, to the point of seeming like actual conservatives themselves who are against female sexuality.

And they are almost always ugly, and I'm 100% certain they are just being catty bitches who are jelous.

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Ant_17

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#35 Ant_17
Member since 2005 • 13619 Posts

@gamecubepad said:
@primorandomguy said:

Chutebox: Not embarrassing at all. I knew you wouldn't care, I just wish morons like you would start thinking for yourselves or not exist. :)

Oh the irony!

---

ND is known for technical prowess. Aside from the ability of the character artists and lead programmers, they are pretty average. The fact the whole series is a rip-off of female-lead series, in a way marginalizing woman, would point to the need for inclusion. Dude-Raider, right?

No, Larry Croft.

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Bread_or_Decide

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#36 Bread_or_Decide
Member since 2007 • 29713 Posts

Here's a fun exercise. Write a complete story. Make the protagonist ambiguous both in sex and race.

Then let Hollywood decide for you.

What race and sex do you think they'll choose if given free reign to decide on their own?

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Maroxad

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#37  Edited By Maroxad
Member since 2007 • 16499 Posts

Why is this news? Anita Sarkeesian was an inspiration for The Last of Us as well

In fact, why is this even newsworthy?

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Cloud_imperium

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#38 Cloud_imperium
Member since 2013 • 15142 Posts

Ewww. Respect for the guy who said "Not you too Naughty Dog".

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Sweetbackhair

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#39 Sweetbackhair
Member since 2007 • 2945 Posts

As long as it's fun and has a great story, that's all I care about.

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Maroxad

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#40  Edited By Maroxad
Member since 2007 • 16499 Posts

@Cloud_imperium said:

Ewww. Respect for the guy who said "Not you too Naughty Dog".

Should have done his rant with TLOU then. Because that is where it began ;)

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Flyincloud1116

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#41 Flyincloud1116
Member since 2014 • 6418 Posts

@SecretPolice said:

Get yo azz in the kitchen and make me a samitch. :P

Yes, and take your shoes off too!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We agree on something yet again.

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Cloud_imperium

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#42 Cloud_imperium
Member since 2013 • 15142 Posts

@Maroxad said:
@Cloud_imperium said:

Ewww. Respect for the guy who said "Not you too Naughty Dog".

Should have done his childish whine with TLOU then. Because that is where it began ;)

Lol. True dat.

I mean, characters like Lara Croft, Kate Archer, Alyx Vance etc etc etc are among my most favorite characters. In fact it's always nice to see some female lead. But it just annoys me when things are changed or forced into the game just to please some cry babies.

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Shewgenja

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#43 Shewgenja
Member since 2009 • 21456 Posts

Honestly, I didn't care for Nadine at all up until the very end. They did not develop her character very well. I should have cared a lot more when she did that thing that she did at the end, but it was more like "Oh, so you're not completely GI Joe in a bra, okay."

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Maroxad

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#44 Maroxad
Member since 2007 • 16499 Posts

@Cloud_imperium said:
@Maroxad said:
@Cloud_imperium said:

Ewww. Respect for the guy who said "Not you too Naughty Dog".

Should have done his childish whine with TLOU then. Because that is where it began ;)

Lol. True dat.

I mean, characters like Lara Croft, Kate Archer, Alyx Vance etc etc etc are among my most favorite characters. In fact it's always nice to see some female lead. But it just annoys me when things are changed or forced into the game just to please some cry babies.

With Naughty Dog. I just think its common ground and agreement in that regard. ArenaNet is definately the same with Anita. So in the case of those two devs... I dont think they change or force something in a game to appease anyone. If anything, I am convinced they do it on their own accord.

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Ten_Pints

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#45 Ten_Pints
Member since 2014 • 4040 Posts

Is this why they decided not to put a cape on Nate to hide his ass?

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princeofshapeir

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#46 princeofshapeir
Member since 2006 • 16652 Posts

@freedomfreak said:

Nadine was a shitty character that added ****-all to the game.

objectively false

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freedomfreak

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#47 freedomfreak
Member since 2004 • 52000 Posts

@princeofshapeir: She showed up to beat up Nate and Sam. She was also the boss of all the dudes you kill. And in the end, she calls it quits. Brilliant.

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princeofshapeir

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#48  Edited By princeofshapeir
Member since 2006 • 16652 Posts

@freedomfreak said:

@princeofshapeir: She showed up to beat up Nate and Sam. She was also the boss of all the dudes you kill. And in the end, she calls it quits. Brilliant.

nadine's priorities are quite obviously her men and the mission, which is a change of pace from the usual commanders of mercenaries of past uncharted games who were hell-bent on getting the treasure for either fame, fortune, or world domination. the treasure to her is just a means of getting paid and fulfilling her contract, not a pride thing. she turns on rafe because she had pretty much lost all her men and could see that rafe was willing to get everyone killed for purely selfish and vain reasons.

an antagonist who isn't just a psychotic saturday morning cartoon villain? an antagonist with motivations we can sympathize with and understand? how terrible

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TheEroica

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#49  Edited By TheEroica  Moderator
Member since 2009 • 18847 Posts

I hate that this industry has pumped out some of the most endearing female characters in entertainment over the past 30 years... All of which have been wildly popular and respected by men (Lara croft, Samus, Princess peach, Alex Vance... Etc.... Fem Shep.... Etc....) yet somehow being a gamer smatters us all with being misogynistic dicks.

Misogyny in video games is something I've largely ignored... Mainly because for me and my circle of like minded gamers, it just doesn't apply. It's fiction.

I don't relate to the crowd, whomever they may be who have stirred the Kool aid.

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Jag85

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#50  Edited By Jag85
Member since 2005 • 15222 Posts

One of the comments read: "This sounds like a Tomb Raider prologue all of a sudden." That's exactly what I was thinking when I saw that spoiler.

Anyway, Neil Druckmann said something similar about The Last of Us, that it also took some cues from Anita Sarkeesian. Neil Druckmann is what many gamers of the MRA/Gamergate persuasion would call a "social justice warrior". And the Uncharted writer before him, Amy Hennig, is also a "social justice warrior". Gamers are just going to have to accept that many of the developers making their games are "social justice warriors", whether they like it or not.