Trump to put a 10% tariffs on video game/game hardware

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Avatar image for locus-solus
#1 Edited by locus-solus (1100 posts) -

So what does everyone think about this? i'm curious how this will affect digital sale Steam/psn/xbox live etc. this will probably also affect pc hardware as i'm pretty sure most of it not made in the US.

The Entertainment Software Association is in the process of formulating a plan to deal with the possibility of U.S. President Donald Trump rolling out trade tariffs, a source tells Polygon.

A tariff is essentially a form of tax that is used to make goods and services that are imported in the country more expensive to consumers than the same items made domestically.

Those possible tariffs could have an impact on the cost of game consoles and other hardware, much of which is manufactured overseas.

There were rumblings in the lead up to Trump's election that his team was floating the idea first of a five percent trade tariff, and then a possible 10 percent tariff. On Monday, Trump signed an executive order to withdraw from the Trans-Pacific Partnership. He also met with business and union leaders.

If an across-the-board trade tariff were imposed it would likely impact games and gaming consoles that are imported into the United States, like Nintendo's upcoming Switch console.

Polygon reached out to the Entertainment Software Association Monday morning to find out if the association, which represents video game developers and companies, to ask what sort of impact the association thinks the tariffs would have on the industry if they were passed. We also asked if the ESA was lobbying against the tariffs.

“We are looking into the issue and can provide more information shortly,” a spokesman told us.

CNN Money pointed out that President Trump would likely not need support from Congress to levy tariffs. He could instead use several different existing rules to do so.

While he could impost tariffs fairly quickly, experts have said any significant tariffs could lead to a trade war, with other countries imposing tariffs against U.S. products.

http://www.polygon.com/2017/1/23/14365782/video-game-industry-trump-trade-tariffs-esa

Avatar image for smashed_pinata
#2 Posted by smashed_pinata (3747 posts) -

trump ftw

is this affecting all platforms or just PC?

Avatar image for charizard1605
#3 Posted by charizard1605 (82694 posts) -

@smashed_pinata said:

trump ftw

is this affecting all platforms or just PC?

Anything not made in the US, apparently

Avatar image for dynamitecop
#4 Posted by dynamitecop (6395 posts) -

I see no issue with it, much how I see little issue with other tariff's being put into place to reinforce job security and possibly move more production into the United States.

Avatar image for Gaming-Planet
#5 Edited by Gaming-Planet (19891 posts) -

If that's the case, he better lower income taxes too.

Avatar image for ronvalencia
#6 Edited by ronvalencia (27221 posts) -

@locus-solus said:

So what does everyone think about this? i'm curious how this will affect digital sale Steam/psn/xbox live etc. this will probably also affect pc hardware as i'm pretty sure most of it not made in the US.

The Entertainment Software Association is in the process of formulating a plan to deal with the possibility of U.S. President Donald Trump rolling out trade tariffs, a source tells Polygon.

A tariff is essentially a form of tax that is used to make goods and services that are imported in the country more expensive to consumers than the same items made domestically.

Those possible tariffs could have an impact on the cost of game consoles and other hardware, much of which is manufactured overseas.

There were rumblings in the lead up to Trump's election that his team was floating the idea first of a five percent trade tariff, and then a possible 10 percent tariff. On Monday, Trump signed an executive order to withdraw from the Trans-Pacific Partnership. He also met with business and union leaders.

If an across-the-board trade tariff were imposed it would likely impact games and gaming consoles that are imported into the United States, like Nintendo's upcoming Switch console.

Polygon reached out to the Entertainment Software Association Monday morning to find out if the association, which represents video game developers and companies, to ask what sort of impact the association thinks the tariffs would have on the industry if they were passed. We also asked if the ESA was lobbying against the tariffs.

“We are looking into the issue and can provide more information shortly,” a spokesman told us.

CNN Money pointed out that President Trump would likely not need support from Congress to levy tariffs. He could instead use several different existing rules to do so.

While he could impost tariffs fairly quickly, experts have said any significant tariffs could lead to a trade war, with other countries imposing tariffs against U.S. products.

http://www.polygon.com/2017/1/23/14365782/video-game-industry-trump-trade-tariffs-esa

http://www.shacknews.com/article/87589/the-great-wall-consoles-in-china#chapter-1

China's trade manipulation in video games industry has benefited Chinese game companies such as Net Ease and Tencent.

http://www.digitimes.com/newsshow/company.asp?datePublish=2013/09/04&pages=PD&seq=219&cid=3401

Flextronics lands 90% of Xbox One orders, leaving Foxconn the rest.

Majority of Xbox One's assembly is done by Singaporean headquartered Flextronics. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flextronics

Avatar image for smashed_pinata
#7 Posted by smashed_pinata (3747 posts) -

@charizard1605 said:
@smashed_pinata said:

trump ftw

is this affecting all platforms or just PC?

Anything not made in the US, apparently

I see. Part of him being a nationalist and not a globalist. It's one of his better qualities IMO.

I am ok with this.

Avatar image for mems_1224
#8 Posted by mems_1224 (56916 posts) -

Time to start pirating games

Avatar image for crashnburn281
#9 Posted by CrashNBurn281 (1568 posts) -

China manipulates currency at a whim. You do not see them as nationalistic? The consoles have to be made there to even be sold. More extreme than a tariff.

What about Japan? Their culture is very nationalistic. They buy Japanese period. Xbox never had a chance. It might not be go ernment driven, but almost their entire population is like that.

Suddenly it's bad when America starts to become nationalistic?

Is it worse when a government becomes like that or a whole population?

Avatar image for ronvalencia
#10 Posted by ronvalencia (27221 posts) -

@crashnburn281 said:

China manipulates currency at a whim. You do not see them as nationalistic? The consoles have to be made there to even be sold. More extreme than a tariff.

What about Japan? Their culture is very nationalistic. They buy Japanese period. Xbox never had a chance. It might not be go ernment driven, but almost their entire population is like that.

Suddenly it's bad when America starts to become nationalistic?

Is it worse when a government becomes like that or a whole population?

Far east Asian nations doesn't have western leftist political correctness. Nations such as China, South Korea and Japan will take care their own interest first.

Avatar image for Xabiss
#11 Posted by Xabiss (2416 posts) -

@Gaming-Planet said:

If that's the case, he better lower income taxes too.

He does plan to do that and he wants to move us from 7 tax brackets to only 3. I am okay with this.

Avatar image for crashnburn281
#12 Posted by CrashNBurn281 (1568 posts) -

@ronvalencia: Thanks for not responding with pie charts and one liners that make no sense.

I do agree, Asian countries are extremely nationalistic; however it never seemed to be a problem until America started looking after their own interests.

Each country has a right to govern how it sees fit in its own borders.

Avatar image for ronvalencia
#13 Edited by ronvalencia (27221 posts) -

@smashed_pinata said:

trump ftw

is this affecting all platforms or just PC?

AMD's CPU and Polaris GPUs are made by Global Foundry which doesn't have any silicon chip fabrication factory in China.

PS4 S, PS4 Pro, Xbox One S's APU chips are made by TSMC which is located in Taiwan.

Most of NVIDIA GPU chips are made by TSMC which is located in Taiwan. GTX 1050 chips are made by Samsung which are located in South Korea.

For Intel's CPUs, it doesn't have any silicon chip fabrication factory in China.

China has PCB motherboard and external case assembly. Major push for assembly in China is done by Taiwanese ODM companies such as Foxconn, Pegatron/ASUS, Quanta which has zero regard for USA's security interest.

China wouldn't be strong if Taiwan didn't back stab USA.

My mobile phone is made in South Korea.

Avatar image for PSP107
#14 Posted by PSP107 (17407 posts) -

@ronvalencia:"My mobile phone is made in South Korea..."

So your phone will be more if this proposal was in effect when you got it?

Avatar image for ronvalencia
#15 Edited by ronvalencia (27221 posts) -

@PSP107 said:

@ronvalencia:"My mobile phone is made in South Korea..."

So your phone will be more if this proposal was in effect when you got it?

Trump has U.S. corporate tax reduction.

Increase in import cost is similar to OPEC's high price oil results which increases import transport cost.

OPEC is controlled by foreign governments and some are hostile to western culture.

Avatar image for 2Chalupas
#16 Posted by 2Chalupas (7032 posts) -

@dynamitecop said:

I see no issue with it, much how I see little issue with other tariff's being put into place to reinforce job security and possibly move more production into the United States.

You see no issue with consoles costing $30-$50 more... "because Trump"???

That is generally the outcome with tariffs. Consumers pay more. Tariffs are a terrible idea, at least on stuff like this. Why should Sony or Nintendo, both Japanese companies, be forced to pay a penalty to the U.S. government on ANY of their products regardless of where they are manufactured??? There is little chance that they move production to the U.S, so in the end all it does is harm consumers and make the products harder to sell/less profitable.

Avatar image for dynamitecop
#17 Edited by dynamitecop (6395 posts) -

@2Chalupas said:
@dynamitecop said:

I see no issue with it, much how I see little issue with other tariff's being put into place to reinforce job security and possibly move more production into the United States.

You see no issue with consoles costing $30-$50 more... "because Trump"???

That is generally the outcome with tariffs. Consumers pay more. Tariffs are a terrible idea, at least on stuff like this. Why should Sony or Nintendo, both Japanese companies, be forced to pay a penalty to the U.S. government on ANY of their products regardless of where they are manufactured??? There is little chance that they move production to the U.S, so in the end all it does is harm consumers and make the products harder to sell/less profitable.

It introduces the threat of non-purchase due to cost increase on the consumer end and will cut into the bottom line for all of these companies, it may harm the consumer but it will slow the frequency in which purchases are made.

They will feel the impact one way or another, it can halt the continued outsourcing of jobs and it can also bring production back to the US, especially in the form of tax credits which will make a company money for producing here.

Avatar image for DJ-Lafleur
#18 Posted by DJ-Lafleur (35604 posts) -

Because trying to get over a Trump World wasn't hard enough as is, I can't even escape to video games without his BS...

Avatar image for dynamitecop
#19 Edited by dynamitecop (6395 posts) -

@DJ-Lafleur said:

Because trying to get over a Trump World wasn't hard enough as is, I can't even escape to video games without his BS...

Don't blame him, blame our shitty infrastructure which makes it all too easy to **** over everyone who lives here while also reaping money from them.

American company producing American products in a non-American country and then selling said products back to American's, if you don't see a problem with that then maybe you should just outsource yourself from this country.

Avatar image for ronvalencia
#20 Edited by ronvalencia (27221 posts) -

@2Chalupas said:
@dynamitecop said:

I see no issue with it, much how I see little issue with other tariff's being put into place to reinforce job security and possibly move more production into the United States.

You see no issue with consoles costing $30-$50 more... "because Trump"???

That is generally the outcome with tariffs. Consumers pay more. Tariffs are a terrible idea, at least on stuff like this. Why should Sony or Nintendo, both Japanese companies, be forced to pay a penalty to the U.S. government on ANY of their products regardless of where they are manufactured??? There is little chance that they move production to the U.S, so in the end all it does is harm consumers and make the products harder to sell/less profitable.

Not much different to OPEC's high oil price controls which are controlled by foreign governments. USA's shale oil industry has weaken OPEC's control over oil prices.

OPEC's high oil price has increased import cost.

Trump has corporate tax reductions.

Avatar image for Telekill
#21 Posted by Telekill (8379 posts) -

It hasn't passed yet. No reason to get your panties in a twist guys. Even if it does pass, that's an increase of $6 for the average imported game; $30 extra on the upcoming Switch.

Avatar image for 2Chalupas
#22 Posted by 2Chalupas (7032 posts) -

@dynamitecop said:
@2Chalupas said:
@dynamitecop said:

I see no issue with it, much how I see little issue with other tariff's being put into place to reinforce job security and possibly move more production into the United States.

You see no issue with consoles costing $30-$50 more... "because Trump"???

That is generally the outcome with tariffs. Consumers pay more. Tariffs are a terrible idea, at least on stuff like this. Why should Sony or Nintendo, both Japanese companies, be forced to pay a penalty to the U.S. government on ANY of their products regardless of where they are manufactured??? There is little chance that they move production to the U.S, so in the end all it does is harm consumers and make the products harder to sell/less profitable.

It introduces the threat of non-purchase due to cost increase on the consumer end and will cut into the bottom line for all of these companies, it may harm the consumer but it will slow the frequency in which purchases are made.

They will feel the impact one way or another, it can halt the continued outsourcing of jobs and it can also bring production back to the US, especially in the form of tax credits which will make a company money for producing here.

Threat of non-purchase? Uhhh. yeah. It could be the final nail that puts retailers like Game-stop and Best Buy under, when it takes a chunk out of their electronics business. Higher prices = less sales and less profits for retailers.

I'm all for tariffs that go after legitimate trade violations (specific ones, like the dumping of Chinese steel below production cost). If a country wants to illegally "dump" products or subsidize an industry against trade agreements. But to just slap tariffs across the board? Nope. That's just bad economics.

Avatar image for 2Chalupas
#23 Posted by 2Chalupas (7032 posts) -

@ronvalencia said:
@2Chalupas said:
@dynamitecop said:

I see no issue with it, much how I see little issue with other tariff's being put into place to reinforce job security and possibly move more production into the United States.

You see no issue with consoles costing $30-$50 more... "because Trump"???

That is generally the outcome with tariffs. Consumers pay more. Tariffs are a terrible idea, at least on stuff like this. Why should Sony or Nintendo, both Japanese companies, be forced to pay a penalty to the U.S. government on ANY of their products regardless of where they are manufactured??? There is little chance that they move production to the U.S, so in the end all it does is harm consumers and make the products harder to sell/less profitable.

Not much different to OPEC's high oil price controls which are controlled by foreign governments. USA's shale oil industry has weaken OPEC's control over oil prices.

OPEC's high oil price has increased import cost.

Trump has corporate tax reductions.

OPEC has never had much actual control over oil prices, most of the countries don't even adhere to their own quotas. They can try to talk the markets up or down, try to collude on prices and how much "supply" they are going to supply as a group, but at the end of the day they only influence the market slightly - they don't actually control it. Recently, the theory was that they were actually drivingt oil prices DOWN. Not up. Oversupplying the market to try and drive shale producers out of business. But of course that oversupply (and collapse in prices) already existed because of massive shale oil production.

Avatar image for Shewgenja
#24 Posted by Shewgenja (21139 posts) -

Yay, we're going to have European import taxes without ANY of the consumer protections. One more way America is in a race to act like a tinpot third-world country at the expense of average consumers.

Avatar image for X_CAPCOM_X
#25 Posted by X_CAPCOM_X (8446 posts) -

Another example of how economic nationalism is a cancerous reaction to a dying system. A global economy has given everyone in here the opportunity to enjoy the latest tech, whether it be PC parts, consoles, software, smartphones etc. Anyone defending this is clueless to how much globalized production has benefited their beloved gaming setups, and will only be supporting a decision that attempts to turn back the clock to a time when the material basis for these advancements wasn't available.

Avatar image for Jag85
#26 Edited by Jag85 (13248 posts) -

It doesn't just affect foreign companies from Asia and Europe, but American companies as well. The vast majority of physical video game products, including consoles, graphics cards, and discs, are manufactured in Asia, mostly China. Most American products, like those from Apple and Microsoft, will also get slapped with higher tariffs. Nearly all physical video game products would become 10% more expensive in America.

Avatar image for silversix_
#27 Posted by silversix_ (26347 posts) -

I wish our heavily brain damaged Justin Trudeau was replaced by Trump

Avatar image for ronvalencia
#28 Edited by ronvalencia (27221 posts) -

@2Chalupas said:
@ronvalencia said:
@2Chalupas said:
@dynamitecop said:

I see no issue with it, much how I see little issue with other tariff's being put into place to reinforce job security and possibly move more production into the United States.

You see no issue with consoles costing $30-$50 more... "because Trump"???

That is generally the outcome with tariffs. Consumers pay more. Tariffs are a terrible idea, at least on stuff like this. Why should Sony or Nintendo, both Japanese companies, be forced to pay a penalty to the U.S. government on ANY of their products regardless of where they are manufactured??? There is little chance that they move production to the U.S, so in the end all it does is harm consumers and make the products harder to sell/less profitable.

Not much different to OPEC's high oil price controls which are controlled by foreign governments. USA's shale oil industry has weaken OPEC's control over oil prices.

OPEC's high oil price has increased import cost.

Trump has corporate tax reductions.

OPEC has never had much actual control over oil prices, most of the countries don't even adhere to their own quotas. They can try to talk the markets up or down, try to collude on prices and how much "supply" they are going to supply as a group, but at the end of the day they only influence the market slightly - they don't actually control it. Recently, the theory was that they were actually drivingt oil prices DOWN. Not up. Oversupplying the market to try and drive shale producers out of business. But of course that oversupply (and collapse in prices) already existed because of massive shale oil production.

"Control" can be in-direct and direct.

OPEC's driving the oil price down is an attempt to push US shale oil companies out of the market. Saudi Arabia lead OPEC is waging an economic war against USA.

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2016-06-23/saudi-arabia-declares-cease-fire-in-oil-war

Avatar image for nintendoboy16
#29 Edited by nintendoboy16 (35899 posts) -

@DJ-Lafleur said:

Because trying to get over a Trump World wasn't hard enough as is, I can't even escape to video games without his BS...

Yep! Despicable...

Avatar image for mazuiface
#30 Posted by mazuiface (777 posts) -

@X_CAPCOM_X said:

Another example of how economic nationalism is a cancerous reaction to a dying system. A global economy has given everyone in here the opportunity to enjoy the latest tech, whether it be PC parts, consoles, software, smartphones etc. Anyone defending this is clueless to how much globalized production has benefited their beloved gaming setups, and will only be supporting a decision that attempts to turn back the clock to a time when the material basis for these advancements wasn't available.

Precisely.

The very reason why we have computer technology is because of global production. Anyone who thinks that a general dissolution of organized production around the world can foster advancing technology is living in complete fantasy.

Avatar image for i_p_daily
#31 Posted by I_P_Daily (11045 posts) -

Isn't it Trump who's hiding his tax returns as to not show how many work arounds he uses to avoid paying his fair share of tax, and yet wants to increase taxes for foriegn companies to trade in the US, that will eventually hit American companies, and thus the American people anyway lol.

Well you get what you vote for i guess :P

Avatar image for Jag85
#32 Posted by Jag85 (13248 posts) -
@mazuiface said:
@X_CAPCOM_X said:

Another example of how economic nationalism is a cancerous reaction to a dying system. A global economy has given everyone in here the opportunity to enjoy the latest tech, whether it be PC parts, consoles, software, smartphones etc. Anyone defending this is clueless to how much globalized production has benefited their beloved gaming setups, and will only be supporting a decision that attempts to turn back the clock to a time when the material basis for these advancements wasn't available.

Precisely.

The very reason why we have computer technology is because of global production. Anyone who thinks that a general dissolution of organized production around the world can foster advancing technology is living in complete fantasy.

They live in a delusional fantasy where they think America can compete with China as the world's manufacturing powerhouse. A big reason why China is the world's manufacturing powerhouse is because Chinese workers are paid much less. There is no way American workers would work for as little as Chinese workers do. So there's no way America could compete with China in manufacturing.

Trump wants to punish American companies who rely on Chinese factories, thinking these tariffs would force American companies to bring factories back to America, which is stupid. If American companies manufactured their goods in America, then their goods will increase by a far higher price than whatever tariffs he wants to impose. His 10-40% tariffs may increase the prices of American goods manufactured in China by 10-40%, but if those American goods were manufactured in America, the prices could double or triple. Most American companies would still end up manufacturing in China, regardless of whatever tariffs he imposes, since the alternative he wants would be much worse for them.

Also, China has said that, if Trump goes through with his crazy tariffs, they would retaliate by slapping tariffs on American products. And it won't be just China either, but other countries could also follow suit. This would lead to the decline of American exports, and American companies losing out overseas. Trump's ridiculous trade war with China isn't a battle he can win, and will only end up wrecking America.

Avatar image for jet052006
#33 Posted by jet052006 (857 posts) -

@Jag85:

America is too large of a consumer to really go up against, it would take alot of countries coming together to equal America's buying power in most markets, China alone would loose way more than America trying to start a tarrif war.

When looking at gaming sales America alone makes up around 40% of global sales.

Avatar image for ronvalencia
#34 Edited by ronvalencia (27221 posts) -

@Jag85:

USA has the world largest money spending consumer market.

Most east Asian economies are dependant U.S. consumer spending habits e.g. Japan already stated TPP is meaningless without US.(1)

1. http://www.reuters.com/article/us-japan-tpp-abe-idUSKBN13G2IK

Japan PM says TPP trade pact meaningless without U.S.

Most western countries develop their own economies without being large economic leeches.

US's high standard of living has exist before large trading with China!

Avatar image for ronvalencia
#35 Edited by ronvalencia (27221 posts) -
@mazuiface said:
@X_CAPCOM_X said:

Another example of how economic nationalism is a cancerous reaction to a dying system. A global economy has given everyone in here the opportunity to enjoy the latest tech, whether it be PC parts, consoles, software, smartphones etc. Anyone defending this is clueless to how much globalized production has benefited their beloved gaming setups, and will only be supporting a decision that attempts to turn back the clock to a time when the material basis for these advancements wasn't available.

Precisely.

The very reason why we have computer technology is because of global production. Anyone who thinks that a general dissolution of organized production around the world can foster advancing technology is living in complete fantasy.

China wasn't involve in 1980s computer revolution and we already have Commodore during that era.

Intel's current APUs (which contains CPU and GPU) are NOT fabricated in China!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intel_manufacturing_sites#Fab_sites

D1XHillsboro, Oregon, United States2013300 mm, 14 nm/10 nm //new fab
D1DHillsboro, Oregon, USA2003300 mm, 14 nm
D1CHillsboro, Oregon, USA2001300 mm, 22/14 nm
Fab 12Chandler, Arizona, USA1996300 mm, 65 nm
Fab 32Chandler, Arizona, USA2007300 mm, 22/14 nm
Fab 42Chandler, Arizona, USAtbd[2]450 mm,[3] 14 nm //new fab
Fab 11Rio Rancho, New Mexico, USA1993 (Closed)200 mm, 45/32 nm
Fab 11XRio Rancho, New Mexico, USA2002300 mm, 45/32 nm
Fab 17Hudson, Massachusetts, USA1998 (Closed)200 mm, 130 nm[4]
Fab 24Leixlip, Ireland2006300 mm, 14 nm[5]
Fab 28Kiryat Gat, Israel2008300 mm, 22 nm
Fab 68Dalian, Liaoning, China2010300 mm, 65 nm //old fab

Apple's bin shape Mac Pros are assembled in USA. Apple's Mac Pro manufacturing facility is run by Flextronics.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/kurtmarko/2014/07/02/us-tech-manufacturing-gems/#67a00f3e13d4

What Do a Tesla (Motors), (intel) Xeon and (Apple) Mac Pro Have In Common? Tech Products Still Made in the U.S.A

Avatar image for mazuiface
#36 Edited by mazuiface (777 posts) -

@ronvalencia said:
@mazuiface said:
@X_CAPCOM_X said:

Another example of how economic nationalism is a cancerous reaction to a dying system. A global economy has given everyone in here the opportunity to enjoy the latest tech, whether it be PC parts, consoles, software, smartphones etc. Anyone defending this is clueless to how much globalized production has benefited their beloved gaming setups, and will only be supporting a decision that attempts to turn back the clock to a time when the material basis for these advancements wasn't available.

Precisely.

The very reason why we have computer technology is because of global production. Anyone who thinks that a general dissolution of organized production around the world can foster advancing technology is living in complete fantasy.

China wasn't involve in 1980s computer revolution and we already have Commodore.

Intel's APUs (which contains CPU and GPU) are NOT fabricated in China!

And? The materials that compose printed circuitry and processing units are from all over the world. It is actually impossible to make computer technology within one country unless you somehow rearrange the borders of every country so that the Eurasian landmass is one big nation; which doing that today would mean a nuclear world war which would kill everyone on the planet anyway.

Avatar image for Jag85
#37 Posted by Jag85 (13248 posts) -

@jet052006 said:

@Jag85:

America is too large of a consumer to really go up against, it would take alot of countries coming together to equal America's buying power in most markets, China alone would loose way more than America trying to start a tarrif war.

When looking at gaming sales America alone makes up around 40% of global sales.

The difference is that America is dependent on China, not the other way around. If American companies stop manufacturing in China, there are still many other companies from across the world that will continue to manufacture in China. In such a scenario, it's America that gets screwed over, since they can no longer rely on cheap Chinese manufacturing, which will lead to American products becoming far too expensive to compete on the worldwide market. America needs China, not the other way around.

The largest gaming market in the world is China, which accounts for about 25% of gaming revenues, ahead of America, which accounts for about 23% of gaming revenues. If Trump goes through with his crazy tariff plans, America's share of the woldwide gaming market will decrease, which will lead to China and other countries increasing their share of the worldwide gaming market.

Avatar image for ronvalencia
#38 Edited by ronvalencia (27221 posts) -

@mazuiface said:
@ronvalencia said:
@mazuiface said:
@X_CAPCOM_X said:

Another example of how economic nationalism is a cancerous reaction to a dying system. A global economy has given everyone in here the opportunity to enjoy the latest tech, whether it be PC parts, consoles, software, smartphones etc. Anyone defending this is clueless to how much globalized production has benefited their beloved gaming setups, and will only be supporting a decision that attempts to turn back the clock to a time when the material basis for these advancements wasn't available.

Precisely.

The very reason why we have computer technology is because of global production. Anyone who thinks that a general dissolution of organized production around the world can foster advancing technology is living in complete fantasy.

China wasn't involve in 1980s computer revolution and we already have Commodore.

Intel's APUs (which contains CPU and GPU) are NOT fabricated in China!

And? The materials that compose printed circuitry and processing units are from all over the world. It is actually impossible to make computer technology within one country unless you somehow rearrange the borders of every country so that the Eurasian landmass is one big nation; which doing that today would mean a nuclear world war which would kill everyone on the planet anyway.

Intel APUs are the processing units.

Avatar image for KungfuKitten
#39 Edited by KungfuKitten (26322 posts) -

Tech in the USA has always been very cheap for a country of which the government fell into insurmountable debts. Maybe I should see this as a form of normalization? 10% doesn't sound like it's enough even for the USA to start paying back? Not that I would be in favor of high taxation. I take no stance on this whatsoever because I have no clue of the implications. But I do like to hear what the Americans think.

For Europeans the lack of interest in TPP so probably also TTIP is fantastic because it would have led to some incredible backwards laws and lower standards of products and environmental protection in the EU. I don't mind seeing TTIP swept off the table one bit.

Avatar image for Dark_sageX
#40 Posted by Dark_sageX (3360 posts) -

@smashed_pinata: It affects all platforms. PC components come from american companies (I'm talking about AMD, Intel, Nvidia), however the assembly lines are mostly in china, because the materials required to manufacture them are there. This will affect all forms of electronics (consoles included), so unless the US have mineral reserves buried deep somewhere this tariff will affect everyone.

Which imo is a good thing, this will force companies to re-consider outsourcing their processes and provide americans the opportunity to work for those companies, as a side effect american monopolies will become less present in other places like china and it will give small companies the chance to blossom in the market area, this could mean that we will have more GPU manufactures besides AMD and Nvidia, and this will mean more competition, which will mean better tech, which means better gaming experience.

I'm not a Trump supporter but credit should be given where its due, I fully agree with this movement.

Avatar image for Jag85
#41 Posted by Jag85 (13248 posts) -

@ronvalencia said:

@Jag85:

USA has the world largest money spending consumer market.

Most east Asian economies are dependant U.S. consumer spending habits e.g. Japan already stated TPP is meaningless without US.(1)

1. http://www.reuters.com/article/us-japan-tpp-abe-idUSKBN13G2IK

Japan PM says TPP trade pact meaningless without U.S.

Most western countries develop their own economies without being large economic leeches.

US's high standard of living has exist before large trading with China!

The USA will no longer have the world's largest money spending consumer market if all foreign manufactured goods (including American products manufactured overseas) are slapped with 10-50% tariffs. And as far as gaming is concerned, China has already overtaken America as the world's largest spending gaming market.

The TPP never included China in the first place, which made the TPP dependent on America. But now that Trump is abandoning the TPP, that means most of those TPP countries will just turn to China instead. The TPP gave America an advantage over China, but now that Trump is tearing up the TPP, America has just taken an L and given China the W.

Most Western countries are not the US, so it's irrelevant talking about other Western countries.

The US has always been heavily dependent on foreign trade. When it comes to manufacturing, it's been heavily dependent on China for a while now, and before that, it was heavily dependent on Japan. And when it comes to resources, America has always been heavily dependent on the Middle East.

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#42 Posted by jet052006 (857 posts) -

@Jag85:

China only really prospers in the mobile gaming market, and even then regulates it so foreign companies dont have much chance to make sales. This generation was the first that China finally allowed the xbox/ps4/etc to be sold before then it was completely irrelevant and mostly still so when your a foreign country. China has potential to be a large consumer but they control sales far too much.

There are tons of countries that can provide cheap labor, China isn't the only option closing off potential sales to America would hurt China far more, since American companies already rarely target Chinese buyers.

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#43 Posted by navyguy21 (15218 posts) -

It is highly unlikely that we would get tariffs on electronic devices since the vast majority are made outside of the US.

Wouldnt make economic sense.

You can impose tariffs selectively, as has always been done by most countries.

Very, very rarely are they done across the board.

Gaming industry doesnt need to be worried and I think Polygon knows that.

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#44 Edited by Jag85 (13248 posts) -

@jet052006 said:

@Jag85:

China only really prospers in the mobile gaming market, and even then regulates it so foreign companies dont have much chance to make sales. This generation was the first that China finally allowed the xbox/ps4/etc to be sold before then it was completely irrelevant and mostly still so when your a foreign country. China has potential to be a large consumer but they control sales far too much.

There are tons of countries that can provide cheap labor, China isn't the only option closing off potential sales to America would hurt China far more, since American companies already rarely target Chinese buyers.

The largest gaming market in China is PC gaming, by far, way more than mobile and console gaming combined. China's PC gaming market is huge, and has been the biggest source of PC gaming's growth since last gen. The primary reason why PC gaming is bigger than console gaming today is because of the Chinese market.

The problem is that Trump wants to slap high tariffs on all foreign manufactured goods, not just Chinese manufactured goods. It makes no difference whether American companies manufacture in China or Singapore, they're all going to be slapped with high tariffs.

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#45 Posted by Dakur (3275 posts) -

Trump is the xbone of politics: a complete and utter failure.

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#46 Posted by Dakur (3275 posts) -

@dynamitecop said:
@DJ-Lafleur said:

Because trying to get over a Trump World wasn't hard enough as is, I can't even escape to video games without his BS...

Don't blame him, blame our shitty infrastructure which makes it all too easy to **** over everyone who lives here while also reaping money from them.

American company producing American products in a non-American country and then selling said products back to American's, if you don't see a problem with that then maybe you should just outsource yourself from this country.

Funny how muricans supporting this are usually the ones supporting Murica messing with every country in the world and fucking with their decisions. I'm ok with Murica closing itself to the world but then don't be hypocrites and take your military with you.

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#47 Posted by SolidGame_basic (23953 posts) -

Not what the article said. You are just like the media.

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#48 Edited by ronvalencia (27221 posts) -

@Jag85 said:
@ronvalencia said:

@Jag85:

USA has the world largest money spending consumer market.

Most east Asian economies are dependant U.S. consumer spending habits e.g. Japan already stated TPP is meaningless without US.(1)

1. http://www.reuters.com/article/us-japan-tpp-abe-idUSKBN13G2IK

Japan PM says TPP trade pact meaningless without U.S.

Most western countries develop their own economies without being large economic leeches.

US's high standard of living has exist before large trading with China!

The USA will no longer have the world's largest money spending consumer market if all foreign manufactured goods (including American products manufactured overseas) are slapped with 10-50% tariffs. And as far as gaming is concerned, China has already overtaken America as the world's largest spending gaming market.

The TPP never included China in the first place, which made the TPP dependent on America. But now that Trump is abandoning the TPP, that means most of those TPP countries will just turn to China instead. The TPP gave America an advantage over China, but now that Trump is tearing up the TPP, America has just taken an L and given China the W.

Most Western countries are not the US, so it's irrelevant talking about other Western countries.

The US has always been heavily dependent on foreign trade. When it comes to manufacturing, it's been heavily dependent on China for a while now, and before that, it was heavily dependent on Japan. And when it comes to resources, America has always been heavily dependent on the Middle East.

In any trade war, a country with a trade surplus would hurt more than a country without a trade surplus.

1. http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/japan-rejects-malcolm-turnbulls-push-to-salvage-transpacific-partnership-report-20170124-gty7bb.html

Japan has rejected Australia's pushed for TPP 11 + China plan(1).

2. http://theconversation.com/theres-no-point-to-australias-push-to-ratify-the-tpp-71796

It assumes that the TPP embodies free trade ideals. It does not.

...

In fact, the most significant and most controversial aspects of the TPP embody the opposite of “free trade” principles. Take the deal’s intellectual property (IP) provisions. These would further extend the monopoly rights (and rent-seeking behaviour) of large corporations through changes to patent and copyright laws, delaying competition and keeping the price of IP-protected goods (like pharmaceuticals) higher for longer.

...

Then there are the deal’s investor state dispute settlement (ISDS) provisions. These would give foreign companies the right (not afforded to local firms) to sue the Australian government for regulatory changes aimed at advancing important health, environmental and other social and economic goals.

...

In this brave new world, regulations to prevent profit shifting by multinational corporations or to mitigate climate change could be subject to legal action – and hefty fines imposed on the Australian government (read: Australian taxpayers). This is precisely the fate that befell the Canadian government and its citizens after it agreed to ISDS provisions in its trade deal with the United States

...

In sum, the TPP is not principally – or even largely - about “free trade”. This is precisely why so many people across Australia and around the globe are opposed to it, and precisely why it is so disingenuous of the PM to brand all of its detractors as “anti-free traders” or “protectionists”.

Indeed, if Turnbull’s aim is to signal to the world Australia’s commitment to liberal principles and freer trade, then abandoning the TPP would be a sound first step.

China's gaming industry is already dominated by large Chinese gaming companies such as Tencent and Net Ease.

Game console's market share are tiny and this is mostly due to Chinese's government restrictions which supported Chinese gaming companies like Tencent and Netease. Tencent and Netease has about $12.4 billion (H1 2015 + H1 2016) share from $24 billion.

You have an argument for US shouldn't protect it's industries while China protects their industries i.e. your views are hypocritical.

Sony's and Bandai's home market is Japan.

Apple's iOS has significant mobile market share in Japan while Sony dominates the console market.

For comparison

In the U.S, mobile gaming.

Activision's revenue base are mostly in western countries e.g. US and EU.

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#49 Posted by jet052006 (857 posts) -

@Jag85:

Once again China only makes alot of revenue for Chinese prducts, the EAs, activisions, Sony, Microsofts, Nintendo, and Ubisofts, etc of the world (global publishers) are going to be making around 40% of their sales from America for the most part, with China being a very very small piece of the pie, unless your a Chinese gaming company. Steam wasn't even officially avaliable in China tell almost 2016 just to show how important it is on a global scale.

Once again China doesn't have the buying power to push America around with high tarriffs, they can try and increase labor prices, but always risk the chance of manufacturers moving to some other countries, which we have been seeing in recent times as Chinese labor costs have slowly been increasing. Unfortunately we live in a world were governments are more than willing to make there people work for almost nothing in the hopes to make money and even with higher tarriffs alot of poorer countries would jump at the chance to be the next China.

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#50 Posted by super600 (32438 posts) -

@Jag85 said:

It doesn't just affect foreign companies from Asia and Europe, but American companies as well. The vast majority of physical video game products, including consoles, graphics cards, and discs, are manufactured in Asia, mostly China. Most American products, like those from Apple and Microsoft, will also get slapped with higher tariffs. Nearly all physical video game products would become 10% more expensive in America.

Yeah. A tariff like the one trump proposed pretty much hurts nintendo, sony and microsoft, pc manufactures and companies like Apple that produce stuff in other countries like China and etc.