TLOU 2 has NO multiplayer + new gameplay

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x_Hedon

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#201 x_Hedon
Member since 2019 • 12 Posts
@briguyb13 said:

Yep this is my last Sony system. I've enjoyed the PS4 for the most part, but their exclusives are shit these days and so are their policies and philosophies.

So true.

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KillzoneSnake

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#202 KillzoneSnake
Member since 2012 • 2496 Posts

@i_p_daily said:

You may just be the smartest Sony fan here.

Do you remember this BS excuse for leaving MP out of its uncharted collection for the PS4?

Well they want you to buy the PS4, but when it comes to MP Naughty Dog said "we don't want to fracture our current player pool and community" on the PS3, and Sony just let them get away with it so they could just milk its fanbase, its just one lame excuse after another lol.

Yep and recently all UC games on PS3 got shutdown. Since the remasters have no online UC fans are left offline forever.

While Gears of War 1 is still online after like 13 years!!!! Sony shuts everything down way faster. There are barely any first party online games left online from Sony. Driveclub will shutdown next year, and i expect Shadow Fall to face the same fate.

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I_P_Daily

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#203 I_P_Daily
Member since 2015 • 12833 Posts

@KillzoneSnake said:
@i_p_daily said:

You may just be the smartest Sony fan here.

Do you remember this BS excuse for leaving MP out of its uncharted collection for the PS4?

Well they want you to buy the PS4, but when it comes to MP Naughty Dog said "we don't want to fracture our current player pool and community" on the PS3, and Sony just let them get away with it so they could just milk its fanbase, its just one lame excuse after another lol.

Yep and recently all UC games on PS3 got shutdown. Since the remasters have no online UC fans are left offline forever.

While Gears of War 1 is still online after like 13 years!!!! Sony shuts everything down way faster. There are barely any first party online games left online from Sony. Driveclub will shutdown next year, and i expect Shadow Fall to face the same fate.

It is extremely poor of Sony to be closing servers from this gen, but being first in sales and having a fanbase that is more like a cult, Sony could do anything and get away with it.

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I_P_Daily

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#204 I_P_Daily
Member since 2015 • 12833 Posts

@jcrame10 said:

@i_p_daily: PS3 free online: Killzone 2-3, Resistance 1-3, Uncharted 2-3, Motorstorm 1-3, Gran Turismo Prologue/5, Littlebigplanet 1-2/Karting, PS Allstars, Warhawk, Starhawk, Modnation Racers, TLOU, SOCOM Confrontation/4

PS4 paid MP: Killzone Shadowfall, Driveclub, Gran Turismo Sport, Uncharted 4/LL, Gravity Rush 2, Littlebigplanet 3, TLOU Remastered

And soon you will be taking Driveclub off the list, also Sony already shut down the MP features of Gravity Rush 2 a long time ago. So that list is even more pathetic.

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I_P_Daily

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#205 I_P_Daily
Member since 2015 • 12833 Posts
@Livecommander said:

@i_p_daily: what triple AAA exclusives did xbox release this entire gen ? All them shits is last gen quality with next gen-ish lighting

Ms spends 90% of their game dev money on mp and hardly release note worthy games.

Let ms release as much games as sony and it will be a shit fest all across the board.

Depending on friends to have fun in a game is just sad unless the game is only meant for online smh

But my brain small

@Livecommander said:

@i_p_daily: mp being ensured is nothing if they barely compete with the third party offerings or even last gen offerings.

Or even worse it can mess up single player aspect of the game

Scalebound is the perfect example of why multiplayer shouldn't always be ensured

You complain about old servers. That's a minor argument. Dum lems have nothing but but minor arguments to hold on to all gen

Nobody cared about 5 year old games when the 360 was out

Nobody cared about playing OG xbox games on the 360

I was in these forums back then so you cant tell me otherwise.

But now that Sony is leading 5 to 1 these things are major factors ?

Apparently you mainly played orginal xbox games and the 1st few 360 games all of last gen.

None of that (rambling's of a madman) comes close to explaining why Sony charge for MP when they create so little and shut it down in the same gen, you're just attacking MS to avoid answering the question.

Sony are fraudsters and people like yourself making excuses for them only show that they can milk its fanbase and get away with it.

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#206 Livecommander
Member since 2009 • 1146 Posts

@i_p_daily: milk ?

Rehashed barely upgraded 3 franchises is milking.(halo , gears , forza )

Sony could easily rehash the old socom and it will get like 80s on metacritic

But that wuddnt be nothing new and overall it would be a waste of money

Theres a reason ms had to resort to 1 dollar services.

Nobody wants that rehashed shit. Some fools buy it thinking it'll be a little better and then just stay content cause that rehashed shit isnt that bad with friends

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KillzoneSnake

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#207  Edited By KillzoneSnake
Member since 2012 • 2496 Posts

@i_p_daily said:
@jcrame10 said:

@i_p_daily: PS3 free online: Killzone 2-3, Resistance 1-3, Uncharted 2-3, Motorstorm 1-3, Gran Turismo Prologue/5, Littlebigplanet 1-2/Karting, PS Allstars, Warhawk, Starhawk, Modnation Racers, TLOU, SOCOM Confrontation/4

PS4 paid MP: Killzone Shadowfall, Driveclub, Gran Turismo Sport, Uncharted 4/LL, Gravity Rush 2, Littlebigplanet 3, TLOU Remastered

And soon you will be taking Driveclub off the list, also Sony already shut down the MP features of Gravity Rush 2 a long time ago. So that list is even more pathetic.

Not sure if this was posted before, but did some digging on this subject and Sony denied Days Gone from having MP. They really don't want MP lol. Sony fans should jump out if at PlaystationExperience things don't change.

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robert_sparkes

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#208 robert_sparkes
Member since 2018 • 3407 Posts

It's obvious the focused solely on SP this generation. I'm pretty sure they will have focused on building some quality MP games next generation. Still find it strange they decided against MP in the last of us.

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#209 I_P_Daily
Member since 2015 • 12833 Posts

@Livecommander said:

@i_p_daily: milk ?

Rehashed barely upgraded 3 franchises is milking.(halo , gears , forza )

Sony could easily rehash the old socom and it will get like 80s on metacritic

But that wuddnt be nothing new and overall it would be a waste of money

Theres a reason ms had to resort to 1 dollar services.

Nobody wants that rehashed shit. Some fools buy it thinking it'll be a little better and then just stay content cause that rehashed shit isnt that bad with friends

Yes milking you idiots by charging for PS+ and not delivering any MP in its games for ages, and closing down the ones they have, and you wonder why I said you have a small brain because you can't even follow a simple conversation.

Like seriously who is talking about Halo, Forza, Gears and Socom or rehashing games, you fucking serious???

I take that small brain comment back and change it to no brain at all.

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I_P_Daily

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#210 I_P_Daily
Member since 2015 • 12833 Posts
@robert_sparkes said:

It's obvious the focused solely on SP this generation. I'm pretty sure they will have focused on building some quality MP games next generation. Still find it strange they decided against MP in the last of us.

WOW you're pretty sure, well i'm pretty sure that Sony is taking money and not providing content for that service, and raking in a LOT of money and cows sit by and take it up the arse. But you're sure they will next gen LOL.

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#211 I_P_Daily
Member since 2015 • 12833 Posts

@KillzoneSnake said:
@i_p_daily said:
@jcrame10 said:

@i_p_daily: PS3 free online: Killzone 2-3, Resistance 1-3, Uncharted 2-3, Motorstorm 1-3, Gran Turismo Prologue/5, Littlebigplanet 1-2/Karting, PS Allstars, Warhawk, Starhawk, Modnation Racers, TLOU, SOCOM Confrontation/4

PS4 paid MP: Killzone Shadowfall, Driveclub, Gran Turismo Sport, Uncharted 4/LL, Gravity Rush 2, Littlebigplanet 3, TLOU Remastered

And soon you will be taking Driveclub off the list, also Sony already shut down the MP features of Gravity Rush 2 a long time ago. So that list is even more pathetic.

Not sure if this was posted before, but did some digging on this subject and Sony denied Days Gone from having MP. They really don't want MP lol. Sony fans should jump out if at PlaystationExperience things don't change.

Cows are so far up Sony's arse that a petition for a co-op mode in Days Gone can't even get 200 signatures

And you're right MP was pitched for Days Gone and Sony said no, I mean its lazy when Sony doesn't want to do it but when someone else offers to do it for you and you still turn it down, well shows Sony doesn't want to use any of the money they make from charging for MP on MP, they should be refunding PS+ money, either that or a class action should be taken against these fraudsters.

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#212 DaVillain-  Moderator
Member since 2014 • 38490 Posts

@KillzoneSnake said:

Not sure if this was posted before, but did some digging on this subject and Sony denied Days Gone from having MP. They really don't want MP lol. Sony fans should jump out if at PlaystationExperience things don't change.

At this point, Sony doesn't need to bring PS+ into PS5 if all they are gonna do is single player experience only since Sony did stated they're focusing more on cinematic games onward.

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Livecommander

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#214 Livecommander
Member since 2009 • 1146 Posts

@davillain-: days gone would have state of decay levels of production if they shared the development budget on mp

Money dont grow on trees

Maybe they have have enough sells to make a high production sp with highly produced mp as well

Not everyone wants tac'd in mp just for the sake.

These things have to been done right unless your a generic team of developers.

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#215 Livecommander
Member since 2009 • 1146 Posts

@i_p_daily: maybe that money goes towards actually having games that look next gen.

Nobody pays for a services for the mp console exclusives. Maybe when halo 2 and 3 was out.

So why care about slight mp quantity.edge ?

If sony had half the money ms has them old ass games would still have their servers but big whoop.

It's all about who's trying to push the industry forward now.

If xbox live was only neccessary for 1st party games nobody would buy that shit.

Atleast their is some kind of fresh innovations going on in the psn network exclusives

Mp or not it still cost more than the low level productions ms has you use to.

So who's really being cheap ?

It doesnt take a brain to know that.

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#216 AgentA-Mi6
Member since 2006 • 16681 Posts

@i_p_daily said:

So Sony charge people for PS+ for what reason?

At this point it's pretty much fraud by Sony.

Is this a joke? It was a design choice, they can add a multiplayer component on dlc, maybe they'll release the basics free of charge and add more content and maps down the road. Most importantly, this is one game, ONLY ONE.

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#217 jcrame10
Member since 2014 • 5342 Posts

@i_p_daily said:
@KillzoneSnake said:
@i_p_daily said:
@jcrame10 said:

@i_p_daily: PS3 free online: Killzone 2-3, Resistance 1-3, Uncharted 2-3, Motorstorm 1-3, Gran Turismo Prologue/5, Littlebigplanet 1-2/Karting, PS Allstars, Warhawk, Starhawk, Modnation Racers, TLOU, SOCOM Confrontation/4

PS4 paid MP: Killzone Shadowfall, Driveclub, Gran Turismo Sport, Uncharted 4/LL, Gravity Rush 2, Littlebigplanet 3, TLOU Remastered

And soon you will be taking Driveclub off the list, also Sony already shut down the MP features of Gravity Rush 2 a long time ago. So that list is even more pathetic.

Not sure if this was posted before, but did some digging on this subject and Sony denied Days Gone from having MP. They really don't want MP lol. Sony fans should jump out if at PlaystationExperience things don't change.

Cows are so far up Sony's arse that a petition for a co-op mode in Days Gone can't even get 200 signatures

And you're right MP was pitched for Days Gone and Sony said no, I mean its lazy when Sony doesn't want to do it but when someone else offers to do it for you and you still turn it down, well shows Sony doesn't want to use any of the money they make from charging for MP on MP, they should be refunding PS+ money, either that or a class action should be taken against these fraudsters.

Days Gone PvP would have been beautiful, the gameplay mechanics are a mixture between Uncharted and The Last of Us so it would have been interesting to see what kind of competitive mode they could have cooked up. I would have taken a co-op mode as well.

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#218  Edited By jcrame10
Member since 2014 • 5342 Posts

@KillzoneSnake said:
@i_p_daily said:

You may just be the smartest Sony fan here.

Do you remember this BS excuse for leaving MP out of its uncharted collection for the PS4?

Well they want you to buy the PS4, but when it comes to MP Naughty Dog said "we don't want to fracture our current player pool and community" on the PS3, and Sony just let them get away with it so they could just milk its fanbase, its just one lame excuse after another lol.

Yep and recently all UC games on PS3 got shutdown. Since the remasters have no online UC fans are left offline forever.

While Gears of War 1 is still online after like 13 years!!!! Sony shuts everything down way faster. There are barely any first party online games left online from Sony. Driveclub will shutdown next year, and i expect Shadow Fall to face the same fate.

No, the real reason is because PS4 had nothing big to offer the Christmas season of 2015 and Uncharted 4 was coming spring 2016. So Sony rushed Bluepoint Games out the door with the Uncharted collection remaster and they didn't have time to incorporate the MP elements that Uncharted 2 and 3 had (which was A LOT, lots of maps, lots of PVP modes, co op adventure, co op survival). And now the games are shutdown on PS3. It's a damn shame.

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#219 I_P_Daily
Member since 2015 • 12833 Posts

@AgentA-Mi6 said:
@i_p_daily said:

So Sony charge people for PS+ for what reason?

At this point it's pretty much fraud by Sony.

Is this a joke? It was a design choice, they can add a multiplayer component on dlc, maybe they'll release the basics free of charge and add more content and maps down the road. Most importantly, this is one game, ONLY ONE.

Is that a joke? this is not ONE game, its been happening most of the gen. They have closed servers for games this gen and still are, and all but 2 (that I can think of right now) have no MP or co-op modes and yet they have charged for it all gen. The only game that Sony has made with MP in the last 2yrs has been both the MLB games (that I know of, feel free to correct me)

The whole they can add MP content down the line is just an excuse. When has Sony released dlc with MP modes in it this gen, I don't know so i'm curious.

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#220 I_P_Daily
Member since 2015 • 12833 Posts
@jcrame10 said:
@KillzoneSnake said:
@i_p_daily said:

You may just be the smartest Sony fan here.

Do you remember this BS excuse for leaving MP out of its uncharted collection for the PS4?

Well they want you to buy the PS4, but when it comes to MP Naughty Dog said "we don't want to fracture our current player pool and community" on the PS3, and Sony just let them get away with it so they could just milk its fanbase, its just one lame excuse after another lol.

Yep and recently all UC games on PS3 got shutdown. Since the remasters have no online UC fans are left offline forever.

While Gears of War 1 is still online after like 13 years!!!! Sony shuts everything down way faster. There are barely any first party online games left online from Sony. Driveclub will shutdown next year, and i expect Shadow Fall to face the same fate.

No, the real reason is because PS4 had nothing big to offer the Christmas season of 2015 and Uncharted 4 was coming spring 2016. So Sony rushed Bluepoint Games out the door with the Uncharted collection remaster and they didn't have time to incorporate the MP elements that Uncharted 2 and 3 had (which was A LOT, lots of maps, lots of PVP modes, co op adventure, co op survival). And now the games are shutdown on PS3. It's a damn shame.

Sony/ND said they didn't want to fracture the community and then shut down the PS3 servers anyway, what a bunch of lying a-holes lol.

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#221  Edited By I_P_Daily
Member since 2015 • 12833 Posts

@Livecommander said:

@i_p_daily: maybe that money goes towards actually having games that look next gen.

Nobody pays for a services for the mp console exclusives. Maybe when halo 2 and 3 was out.

So why care about slight mp quantity.edge ?

If sony had half the money ms has them old ass games would still have their servers but big whoop.

It's all about who's trying to push the industry forward now.

If xbox live was only neccessary for 1st party games nobody would buy that shit.

Atleast their is some kind of fresh innovations going on in the psn network exclusives

Mp or not it still cost more than the low level productions ms has you use to.

So who's really being cheap ?

It doesnt take a brain to know that.

So you're saying they use the money they make from charging for MP to make their games look next gen lol.

You keep saying pushing the industry forward, so Sony ripping people off is pushing the industry forward to you???

Well that's the dumbest thing I've read all week, as for the rest of the post I couldn't get through it as its just ramblings and you simply can't answer a simple question.

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#222 DaVillain-  Moderator
Member since 2014 • 38490 Posts

@AgentA-Mi6 said:
@i_p_daily said:

So Sony charge people for PS+ for what reason?

At this point it's pretty much fraud by Sony.

Is this a joke? It was a design choice, they can add a multiplayer component on dlc, maybe they'll release the basics free of charge and add more content and maps down the road. Most importantly, this is one game, ONLY ONE.

You are missing the point. What Daily is saying that Sony doesn't take online MP that serious as MS does with it's games like Forza, Halo, Gears, and their latest IP's like State of Decay & Sea of Thieves all involve heavy on MP thus making their Gold service worth paying is what he's saying. Paying PS+ and for what? Lousy and barley any MP focus? Look at the upcoming Death Stranding, you don't need PS+ to access online features, it'll be free of charge. I know the decision was made by Naughty Dogs, not Sony, but you gotta ask yourself, is paying PS+ worth it? Are you getting your money's worth?

To be honest, as a PC gamer, no one shouldn't be paying to access online at all. Both Sony/MS are just being greedy but Sony is even more worse charging PS+ for nothing. Not to mention, they aren't offering better freebie games compare to Gold.

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#223  Edited By I_P_Daily
Member since 2015 • 12833 Posts

@davillain- said:
@AgentA-Mi6 said:
@i_p_daily said:

So Sony charge people for PS+ for what reason?

At this point it's pretty much fraud by Sony.

Is this a joke? It was a design choice, they can add a multiplayer component on dlc, maybe they'll release the basics free of charge and add more content and maps down the road. Most importantly, this is one game, ONLY ONE.

You are missing the point. What Daily is saying that Sony doesn't take online MP that serious as MS does with it's games like Forza, Halo, Gears, and their latest IP's like State of Decay & Sea of Thieves all involve heavy on MP thus making their Gold service worth paying is what he's saying. Paying PS+ and for what? Lousy and barley any MP focus? Look at the upcoming Death Stranding, you don't need PS+ to access online features, it'll be free of charge. I know the decision was made by Naughty Dogs, not Sony, but you gotta ask yourself, is paying PS+ worth it? Are you getting your money's worth?

To be honest, as a PC gamer, no one shouldn't be paying to access online at all. Both Sony/MS are just being greedy but Sony is even more worse charging PS+ for nothing. Not to mention, they aren't offering better freebie games compare to Gold.

To be honest dav no one owns PC therefor its a wasteland where a universal pay wall to play online is never going to happen. If somehow someone tried and succeeded in doing it you could say that no one would pay to play online when you know that's simply not true as hermits would pay, because you wouldn't be able to play online.

You could boycott it but where would you go as all other gaming platforms has a paid service. Also the vocal minority on here doesn't represents real life and you know that.

But yes the cows in this thread can't seem to grasp what i'm saying, its like i'm not speaking English or something. Its more like a cult than a fanbase, its almost scary lol.

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getyeryayasout

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#224 getyeryayasout
Member since 2005 • 12600 Posts

They will be able to capitalize on TLOU 2 hype twice by splitting the single and multiplayer.

As long as the multi is free to owners of the single player game, I'm not too bothered.

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#225  Edited By jcrame10
Member since 2014 • 5342 Posts

@i_p_daily said:
@jcrame10 said:
@KillzoneSnake said:
@i_p_daily said:

You may just be the smartest Sony fan here.

Do you remember this BS excuse for leaving MP out of its uncharted collection for the PS4?

Well they want you to buy the PS4, but when it comes to MP Naughty Dog said "we don't want to fracture our current player pool and community" on the PS3, and Sony just let them get away with it so they could just milk its fanbase, its just one lame excuse after another lol.

Yep and recently all UC games on PS3 got shutdown. Since the remasters have no online UC fans are left offline forever.

While Gears of War 1 is still online after like 13 years!!!! Sony shuts everything down way faster. There are barely any first party online games left online from Sony. Driveclub will shutdown next year, and i expect Shadow Fall to face the same fate.

No, the real reason is because PS4 had nothing big to offer the Christmas season of 2015 and Uncharted 4 was coming spring 2016. So Sony rushed Bluepoint Games out the door with the Uncharted collection remaster and they didn't have time to incorporate the MP elements that Uncharted 2 and 3 had (which was A LOT, lots of maps, lots of PVP modes, co op adventure, co op survival). And now the games are shutdown on PS3. It's a damn shame.

Sony/ND said they didn't want to fracture the community and then shut down the PS3 servers anyway, what a bunch of lying a-holes lol.

That was just a PR excuse. It really makes no sense when you think about it. And it absolutely makes no sense when you figure Naughty Dog released The Last of Us with factions multiplayer in 2013 then re-released it with multiplayer for PS4 in 2014.

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#226 I_P_Daily
Member since 2015 • 12833 Posts

@jcrame10 said:
@i_p_daily said:
@jcrame10 said:
@KillzoneSnake said:
@i_p_daily said:

You may just be the smartest Sony fan here.

Do you remember this BS excuse for leaving MP out of its uncharted collection for the PS4?

Well they want you to buy the PS4, but when it comes to MP Naughty Dog said "we don't want to fracture our current player pool and community" on the PS3, and Sony just let them get away with it so they could just milk its fanbase, its just one lame excuse after another lol.

Yep and recently all UC games on PS3 got shutdown. Since the remasters have no online UC fans are left offline forever.

While Gears of War 1 is still online after like 13 years!!!! Sony shuts everything down way faster. There are barely any first party online games left online from Sony. Driveclub will shutdown next year, and i expect Shadow Fall to face the same fate.

No, the real reason is because PS4 had nothing big to offer the Christmas season of 2015 and Uncharted 4 was coming spring 2016. So Sony rushed Bluepoint Games out the door with the Uncharted collection remaster and they didn't have time to incorporate the MP elements that Uncharted 2 and 3 had (which was A LOT, lots of maps, lots of PVP modes, co op adventure, co op survival). And now the games are shutdown on PS3. It's a damn shame.

Sony/ND said they didn't want to fracture the community and then shut down the PS3 servers anyway, what a bunch of lying a-holes lol.

That was just a PR excuse. It really makes no sense when you think about it. And it absolutely makes no sense when you figure Naughty Dog released The Last of Us with factions multiplayer in 2013 then re-released it with multiplayer for PS4 in 2014.

Its pretty simple really when you think about it as it makes perfect sense.

For starters Sony and MS were neck & neck last gen so Sony being seen as consumer friendly was good PR for them.

As we moved forward to this gen and Sony are killing it they don't need to be consumer friendly as they see they have everyone where they want them with massive console sales, hence why very little MP this gen. The only thing is now they NEED to make MP in their games because now they charge for it.

Correct me if i'm wrong but Sony's last AAA release that had MP was in October 2017 in the form of GT Sport right??? and since then 2 niche Baseball titles, so its been 2yrs since a AAA game with MP.

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#227 Livecommander
Member since 2009 • 1146 Posts

@i_p_daily: bro imagine sony advertising a side 360 looking game like state of the decay last year.

How is that not more of a rip off than a high quality sp game that cuddnt be dont on a last gen system?

Just cause mp is tac'd in doest make it a bigger effort.

Its actually sad how little xbox's mp affects the industry this despite all the extra attempts.

Nobody buys a xbox to play these games you swear makes xbox live a way better mp service.

Pubg was the closest thing and that was timed and beaten out by free to play fortnite.

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jcrame10

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#228 jcrame10
Member since 2014 • 5342 Posts

@Livecommander: yeah, Gears 5 plays like a last gen game. It doesn’t offer anything new. My Gamepass expired and I can’t play it now but it’s alright because I own Gears 4 on disc and it’s basically the same game.

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I_P_Daily

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#229  Edited By I_P_Daily
Member since 2015 • 12833 Posts

@Livecommander said:

@i_p_daily: bro imagine sony advertising a side 360 looking game like state of the decay last year.

How is that not more of a rip off than a high quality sp game that cuddnt be dont on a last gen system?

Just cause mp is tac'd in doest make it a bigger effort.

Its actually sad how little xbox's mp affects the industry this despite all the extra attempts.

Nobody buys a xbox to play these games you swear makes xbox live a way better mp service.

Pubg was the closest thing and that was timed and beaten out by free to play fortnite.

You should seek help like right now.

I will give this one last shot with you.

Last gen Sony didn't charge for MP, therefore they aren't required to make games with MP

NOW

This gen Sony does charge for MP therefore they need to justify charging for it like making first party games with MP.

Last gen Sony made more games with MP when FREE, now they make less and charge for it.

Lastly this has nothing to do what games look like or MP's impact on the industry, its about taking money for a service and then not providing content for that service.

I expect the same nonsensical response from you Sonycommander lol.

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Livecommander

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#230 Livecommander
Member since 2009 • 1146 Posts

@i_p_daily: what makes you think xbox or playstation charge's mainly for exclusive multiplayer ?

They are charging for many things including general multiplayer.

If you think even 10 percent of xbox lives revenue goes towards exclusives your naive.

You would have protested the 360 if you knew where the money was truly going to.

Enjoy that supreme mp experience your having over there in the meantime tho.