This is what Microsoft was so afraid of and WHY the XBOX initiative exists

The PlayStation 2 was the original Trojan Horse. Microsoft and almost everyone else believed that when PS2 technology was revealed in early 1999. This became increasingly clear throughout the rest of that year. Not only did Microsoft fear Sony would dominate the livingroom with a very high-spec machine, which would become a gateway to the internet,

In mid 2001 before and during E3, and still before the XBOX launched, Sony made it clear they were going to do what Microsoft was terrified of.

Sony announced PlayStation 2 network adapter, harddrive and that the console would support AOL e-mail, instant messaging, chat and web browsing with a Netscape browser, as well as online gaming. They showed a PS2 monitor, keyboard mouse as well as support for Macromedia Flash, Sun Microsystem's Java Real Networks video, and everything was tied together with Sony's partnership with Cisco Systems.

http://ps2.ign.com/articles/094/094593p1.html

http://ps2.ign.com/articles/094/094641p1.html

http://ps2.ign.com/articles/094/094643p1.html

http://ps2.ign.com/articles/094/094716p1.html

http://ps2.ign.com/articles/095/095474p1.html

http://www.gamespot.com/news/2001/05/16/news_2761045.html

http://www.gamespot.com/news/2001/05/15/news_2760858.html

http://www.net4tv.com/voice/story.cfm?storyid=3744

Regardless of the fact that a lot of these things never materialized, other than the network adapter, HDD and some games including FF XI, hindsight does not matter. Everyone including Microsoft thought Sony was absolutely serious.

So M$ took the bait and came out as a failure as always with EVERYTHING they do.

Will all this be on the exam?

How are they still running up with so much money in their pockets?

You can see Microsoft motivations as clear back as the Windows 95 "Doom" speech Bill Gates gave about DirectX and game developer support, if anything I think it goes back to making Windows PCs the dominant system because that's where MS makes a ton of money, on the OS, on its software, and bringing people to their platform through gaming is a big motivator. I mean, Betamax was superior to VHS but people chose VHS because that's what the porn industry backed, so it won the format war, I think gaming had a similar pull on the PC vs Mac fight. I think MS was more interested in pushing DirectX with developers on consoles to bridge console-PC development and thus strengthen their hold. Before they were trying to push DirectX on other systems too, on Sega Dreamcast, but Sony's refusal to adopt the DirectX APIs on PS2 was what mostly pushed MS to come out with the Xbox, there was a good video posted here on SW a while back talking with some of the founding Xbox figures that pretty much admitted as much.

I see TC's reasoning less to do with why the original Xbox was created, but I certainly think it's true that maybe MS built XBL in response to Sony trying to integrate some kind of online connectivity with the console.

Yeah I remember reading about how worried Microsoft was about Sony taking over the living room before which was a big reason why they entered the console business. I was very sceptical of them being in the console business myself and wasn’t really interested in them at first. I got the original Xbox later on when Halo 2 was getting ready to launch. I was hearing all this hype about Halo and wanted check it out to see what all the fuss was about. I’m very glad I did though because I then played a number of excellent games for the system.

Doesn't change the fact they lost almost 7 billion on the first Xbox console, and are only still in the console market to save face. Even though it really doesn't make them any money compared to the rest of the company.

Xbox gave the console industry a kick in the ass in places, but have gone right back to irrelevancy at this point.

Cool.

But if they're such a failure, how do they still have money?

https://www.gamespot.com/forums/system-wars-314159282/the-xbox-division-brought-in-2251-billion-in-reven-33431024/#100

@MonsieurX: Monopoly on the OS, dearie.

M$ flopped on consoles, smartphones, apple like laptops, search engines, maps, Messengers, news portal. Every single thing M$ does sucks.

One more thing: have M$ ever created something? Because every single thing they sell is a ripoff or copy of some kind. I've never seen a company so incompetent as micro$oft.

Exactly what I said in a different thread. They cant fail at something they already have ~90% of.

But sure can at anything they dont know.

They never report profit for the Xbox division, so the conclusion is that it's a money sink. Because if it were a success, we'd never hear the end of it. There's too many articles and evidence out there that suggest Xbox isn't pulling weight for the company.

Coming from a Sony fan, that's funny

@dxmcat: agreed and even windows is a bad product, and it started as a ripoff.

@MonsieurX: well, at least Sony succeeds on consoles, TVs and videocameras for movie studios, M$, on the other hand...

https://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2016-07-01-sonys-entire-future-now-rests-on-playstation

Not really

Glad that MS got into it. PSN adapter was nice, Ps2/Ps3 had some great games but the service was lacking. MS and Xbox Live blew the door open for console multiplayer gaming. PsN is decent on Ps4 but still Sony lacks 1st party support for multiplayer/co-op gaming and features you currently find with Xbox Live.

Hopefully Sony at E3 will have a roadmap like MS with 1p support for new ip but for PSN and Multiplayer Gaming. Its been way too long and PS+ needs to get buffed up with more features and multiplayer games.

You fanboys are just dumb as hell. Then explain why Microsoft could be worth 1 trillion dollars by 2020 then? Only worth like 20-25 times more then Sony. Jesus I just can't believe the stupid shit you people say anymore. BTW they have had a ton of successful products like Skype, Azure, Windows Server, Exchange, SQL server, Office, Office 365, Visual Studio, and Sharepoint just for some examples.

http://money.cnn.com/2017/12/11/investing/microsoft-trillion-dollar-market-value/index.html

None of that market value comes from Xbox though so he’s somewhat right about Xbox being a failure for them. Xbox for MS has been a failure and a money sink. They talk all the time about revenue but never about profit coming specifically from Xbox. If Xbox wasn’t a failure they would be reporting sales numbers and actual profit they are making like Sony and Nintendo do. Dumping everything into revenue and mixing revenue from their phone and tablet division isn’t the same thing as giving actual profit numbers and units sold.

Exactly.

@Archangel3371: " Yeah I remember reading about how worried Microsoft was about Sony taking over the living room before which was a big reason why they entered the console business. "

That's what I heard back in the day too.

Quit with your false narratives and made up bullshit. No where did I say a damn thing about Xbox. He mentioned all of the failed products, so I thought I would help him out with all of the products Microsoft has had success with. That is all I mentioned in my statement above. Also how do you know for a fact Xbox isn't doing anything for Microsoft? I don't have the numbers, you don't have the numbers so all of this shit is hearsay until we have the actual numbers.

BTW Microsoft talks about revenue about all of their products and hardly talks about actual profit for singular items in their portfolio. Most of their services are broken up between 3 different services - productivity and business processes, intelligent cloud, and personal computing. They are a large company with a shit ton of services and it doesn't make sense to try break everything down like that.

Nothing I said is made up. Tell me how much money they've actually made off Xbox, I mean actual profit and while you're at it give me the sales numbers. You can't because they have never reported any of these in their financials, at least not recently. Anyone that knows anything about business will tell you revenue isn't the same as profits. The fact MS feels the need to hide their actual Xbox division profits and sales numbers is very telling. They are the only ones out of the big three that do this.

OG Xbox lost MS $4 billion back in 2005 and back in 2013 it was reported Xbox was losing them about $2 billion per year.

When you add the fact that they blew billions of dollars on Sports deals and the failed Kinect at the start of the gen these losses really start to add up. Even at the start of the gen they were losing money on every Xbone sold despite selling at $500. Dropping Kinect and instituting fire sales and bundles couldn't have been cheap and would have led to further losses. When you combine this with the fact that they lose money on every XboneX sold, it makes it harder to believe they are turning a profit. Dumbasses like you see revenue numbers and automatically assume they are making profit when you should be skeptical. They have a $500 console on the market so obviously revenue will be high but it doesn't necessarily mean because revenue is high that they are actually making big profits.

Good lord man I never said Xbox was a success or not. The fact is NO ONE KNOWS except the big wigs of Microsoft. Until we actually know the numbers all of this shit is just opinion and hearsay. Nothing we can say about the Xbox division in this moment in time can be held with any amount of truth. I don't understand why this is so hard for fanboys to understand. Yes, Microsoft blew money on a bunch of shit without success, but guess what it didn't hurt the company in the long haul. We are looking at a company that could possible reach a trillion dollars in net worth and be the first to do it. Unless Amazon beats them to that number. :P I say Microsoft as a whole is pretty damn successful and a **** ton more successful as a whole then Nintendo and Sony combined.

Again about the part I put in bold on your reply. Please tell me where I talked about revenue and how I even praised revenue. Again you rant with a fucking false narrative to try and drive a point. All I am saying is I don't have to question shit. Microsoft as a whole is making a profit and they seem to be doing well. If Xbox was hurting them that bad they would let it go or sale it off. For now they are keeping them around so the CEO must see some kind of worth for the Xbox division right now. I will not say if they are profitable or not because no one knows and guess what the Xbox division is not the only division like that. Most divisions revenue is the only thing giving and the majority of the time profit for the company is the only thing shown between large clumps of services. So you can say that about most of Microsoft services.

Trust me if you say Xbox is not making money or even if you say it is. Both parties are full of shit because no one can back it up with factual information and it is all hearsay. That is a fact. This is also a fact. Microsoft as a whole is extremely successful and the latest CEO has been doing a hell of a job.

So....they "baited" MS.......into competing directly with them? Does that even make sense?

"C'mon Microsoft, you know you want in on this market!"

@airraidjet: Sony's MIPS CPU was used in Unix workstations and MIPS CPU was one of Advanced Computing Environment (ACE)'s CPU selection.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Computing_Environment

The Advanced Computing Environment (ACE) was defined by an industry consortium in the early 1990s to be the next generation commodity computing platform, the successor to personal computers based on Intel's 32-bit instruction set architecture.

The consortium was announced on the 9th of April 1991 by Compaq, Microsoft, MIPS Computer Systems, Digital Equipment Corporation, and the Santa Cruz Operation.^[1][2] At the time it was widely believed that RISC-based systems would maintain a price/performance advantage over the ad hocWintel systems

...

The environment standardized on the MIPS architecture and two operating systems: SCO UNIX with Open Desktop and what would become Windows NT (originally named OS/2 3.0). The Advanced RISC Computing (ARC) document was produced to give hardware and firmware specifications for the platform. Other members of the consortium included Acer, Control Data Corporation, Kubota, NEC Corporation, NKK,Olivetti, Prime Computer, Pyramid Technology, Siemens, Silicon Graphics, Sony, Sumitomo, Tandem Computers, Wang Laboratories, and Zenith Data Systems. Besides these large companies, several start-up companies built ACE-compliant systems as well.

Intel views ACE initiative as a threat and responded with Pentium Pro (P6) which CISC and RISC hybrid CPU design and followed by Pentium II and popular Celeron A.

Pentium Pro was first member from P6 family with latest P6+ member being Intel Skylake X and CoffeeLake.

Intel's vs AMD's Ghz war killed ACE initiative e.g. killed MIPS, killed DEC Alpha and indirectly killed PowerPC from the desktop PC market.

AMD's K7 Athlon reduced the need for DEC's Alpha.

I have played with Windows NT 4 DEC Alpha edition and Windows NT 4 X86 Pentium Pro/Pentium II machines during my university time period.

Intel almost single-handedly defeated all the above mentioned anti-X86 companies.

Sony was part of Advanced Computing Environment initiative.

The problem with you and most lems on this board is that anytime someone mentions Xbox failing you guys start talking about how well MS as a company is doing. No one gives a shit how well MS is doing. MS is one of the richest and most successful companies on the planet, no sane person doubts they are far richer than Nintendo and Sony combined. Everything I posted has to do with MS gaming division profits which is a completely different thing from the rest of MS. No one gives shit if MS as a whole is making profit. MS was making tons of profit when they decided to drop Zune, all the money in the world they were making didn't make a difference in their decision. Why is it anytime someone mentions Xbox isn't doing well you clowns rush in and start talking about how much money MS as a company makes from their other divisions?

I've showed you links that prove MS is bleeding money when it comes to Xbox and you haven't shown a shred of evidence to prove your claim that Xbox makes profit for them. Instead you're telling me all this bullshit about the money the rest of MS makes. Can you not read? I'm talking about the Xbox division not MS as a whole.

No you just showed me opinions and opinions of analyst. You should know by now that analyst data should be taken lightly because they can be wrong and a lot of times they are. I remember PSVR was supposed to sale a hell of a lot more then it did because of dumb ass analyst data. Again, you can have your opinion that they are not successful and I am going to say I don't know if they are or not because I don't have the data to back either stance. Sorry that I like facts to backup my statements. Why is that so hard to understand?

BTW I never mentioned anything about Xbox until you put words in my mouth saying I did. Look at my first post in this thread. No where did I say a fucking thing about Xbox, not a damn word. Again I was just showing successful products Microsoft has had and guess what I didn't put Xbox because know one knows. :P So I have no fucking idea why you keep babbling your bullshit and attacking me for no reason, but shoot away.

From https://www.vg247.com/2017/06/15/xbox-one-x-selling-at-a-loss-even-with-that-500-price-tag/

“I don’t want to get into all the numbers, but in aggregate you should think about the hardware part of the console business is not the money-making part of the business,” Spencer said.

“The money-making part is in selling games.”

When aggregated with selling games, Xbox is profitable.

Hey Quad argue with this guy. I am done with all of this shit. I have said what I needed to say. Goodnight everyone. BTW Ron just like I told Quad you can't say that shit until someone can show actual numbers. Sorry.

@airraidjet:

Without Xbox, the above 48 percent would be completely dominated by the Japanese platform vendors. This is one of the main reasons for Xbox's existence.

In the US, PC gaming hardware superiority = means little for the majority.

-----------

Microsoft's OS platform effectively has Chinese PC gaming. Tencent is the dominant game company in China. Tencent's official gaming hardware partner is Intel. This is the stronghold for Intel IGP (soon dGPU) gaming business. Intel KabyLake G would be important in this market.

Chinese government aided companies like Tencent (SOE) by banning foreign game consoles until recently, but the damage is done.

SOE = State Owned Enterprise. Read http://fortune.com/2015/07/22/china-global-500-government-owned/

it all makes sense now microsoft feared sony making playstation PC's and beating windows in the business sector

@ProtossRushX: buhahahhahhaha.

I didn't know anybody who owned those accessories.

Didn't even know that was a potential business plan from the start.

@airraidjet: Ive got the Linux disc and the HDD for the ps2 around somewhere I thought it was cool as shit when I was a teen, I got it off a mate for a $100 but I have no idea where he got it from. I also had the screen that attached to the back of the ps2 but it sadly broke after the lcd leaked and went all green. I collected a whole bunch of weird stuff for the consoles that would come threw pawn brokers aswell. like a giant arcade stick

Microsoft knows if any of Japanese establishes a strong hold in home desktop gaming, it's gives Japanese a strong software platform base to strike at Microsoft's core business.

Microsoft's main problem is not Japanese but other American software platform companies like Apple and Google.

Companies like Qualcomm are US government protected from takeover e.g. BroadCom's hostile takeover attempt.

Qualcomm is one of the two main PowerPC supplier which is important for US military industrial complex. Qualcomm also sells ARM v8 CPU clones.

British lost ARM to the Japanese.

British lost Imagination's GPU designs to the Canyon Bridge (Chinese SOE)

British lost Imagination's MIPS CPU designs to Tallwood Venture Capital (Silicon Valley,US?)

Technology has national security issues.

@recloud: "I've never seen a company so incompetent as micro$oft."

"microsoft feared sony making playstation PC's and beating windows in the business sector"

Cows... The gift that keeps on giving.

????????????????????????????????

Sony was part of ACE initiative and they are the most successful among MIPS based home computer vendors.

MIPS has problems matching IBM's PowerPC clock speed.

More babybackbqllbagbullshit financial talk on SW.

Someone mentions nothing but OS makes money for MSFT even though there is a business world of evidence that's not true.

Sonys tv, and cameras are mentioned even though they aren't strong sectors for Sony anymore but what does that matter when proof exists right?

Hahahaha hahaha

Bu bu bu bu teh Xbox never turned a profit for MS!

And MS never reported debt like Sony has. That company is a pimple on MS' anus. Let's keep it to consoles and games here in SW because financially your horse blinders mean diddly shat. MS dwarfs them. Swallow your samurai sword if the truth bothers you.

Lol, let's not go that far.

FALSE!

They were successful in making Pay-to-Play online a thing in console gaming!

So you should give M$ their proper respect for achieving one of their primary goals for entering the console industry which was to monetize us gamers with this nickle-N-dime tactic.

This would NOT have happened without M$'s hand as both Sega's and Sony's online were free so this award goes to M$.

Their other goal was to make AAA story based single player games obsolete by spreading the narrative that no one buys SP games so they could push cheaply made nickle-N-dime service based MMO type online games...but that attempt to water down the game industry further was crushed by Nintendo and Sony and sent M$'s ass back to the drawing board.

.

I read that in one of my video game magazines when they were still a thing when social media wasn't a big thing at the time.

Pfffft, I wrote the book on this stuff. Youngsters these dayzzzzz. lololol :P

@tgob89: true, if M$ didn't charge for online, we wouldn't have this now. M$ is cancer, it destroyed gaming industry. I wish it just stayed away from gaming.

@Xabiss: still a terrible company that doesn't create anything.

Game Informer?

@PSP107: Gamepro actually.

Most of the world is running on microsoft systems, if you would take microsoft out of equation, the world would simply stop running as we know it.

They are quite competent, they just get a bit megalomaniac sometimes, and want to be a part of everything.

They focused on a game console to stop Sony, but they should have been focusing on phones and mobile software. They went the wrong direction for sure. Now Apple and Google dominate the mobile software landscape.

You can say the same for Sony too, they got destroyed by Apple in mobile music with the Ipod the Walkman didn't have a chance.

No matter how many times you say it, does not make it true. So keep being the worse gamer their is and that is a fanboy. Enjoy! I am going to keep enjoying Cuphead, God of War, and Zelda. Being a fan of games is so much better!