The Xbox One Scorpio May Be More Powerful Than PS4 Pro- But It Doesn't Matter, According To Michael Pachter

Later this year, Microsoft is preparing to launch the Xbox Scorpio, which is going to be the most powerful console ever made, with a 6 TFLOPs GPU. The Scorpio is going to apparently be able to render its games in 4K natively- which is not something that any other console on the market can do, including the PS4 Pro. But according to Wedbush Securities analyst Michael Pachter, that ultimately won't matter- according to him, the Scorpio's graphical differential will be negligible on screens and setups that most people own.

'Power is not that important anymore," Pachter said on his web show. 'Yes you need greater power to do things, but we're now at the point where graphics look like movies- look at Uncharted 4 or The Last of Us or Horizon: Zero Dawn- it's cartoony and colorful, but it's a very clear looking game. So no, I don't think it matters. We can go from 1080p, which is 2 million pixels, to 4K, which is 8 million pixels on screen. And although that's 6 million more pixels, and four times the graphics intensity- I defy you to tell the difference on your screen. Yes, if you low it up on a 100 inch TV screen, you'd know the difference. But most of us aren't playing games on a 100 inch screen- I'd say most of us play on somewhere between 32 inch to 55 inch screens.'

According to Pachter, the problem is that we are now officially at the point of diminishing returns- so while the Scorpio is more powerful, functionally, that should be meaningless to most people.

'Scorpio is going to be 4K,' he said. 'What does 4K mean? Four times as many pixels as 1080p. Yes, that requires a whole lot more processing power- but it isn't that big of a deal. So PS4 Pro is HDR, I wish I knew what that meant. I am sure there are 1080p TVs that support HDR- my two year old TV does not. So I have a PS4 Pro, I can't tell the difference, but I don't care, I am future proofed. I will ultimately get a new TV. So the next gen consoles aren't going to do that much more. So yes, it's more powerful- but, and I'm not suggesting that you can't tell the difference. But do you care at that point? The answer is, no you don't. So I think it's great, I think that for movie type playback it matters, and I think it might be more efficient if you wanted to play old content- but I think we are at the point where new cycles don't matter. We are definitely at a point of diminishing returns. You won't be able to tell the difference- I promise you you won't. So, it's a great thing to happen, but it doesn't matter.'

I largely agree with him, actually. But with that said, I do think that if Microsoft stopped mandating 4K or parity with the existing Xbox One, allowing developers to use the Scorpio's powers in any way they like, then the console could be meaningfully differentiated and set apart from any other on the market- and find a meaningful use for its power, and niche for itself.

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So, is the Scorpio a guaranteed success, now?

Scorpio > the rest

Isn't it SWs consensus that anything Patcher says will be the exact opposite?

That's exactly what I said in the OP

@VERTIGO47 said:

I second this.

@Pedro said:

@VERTIGO47 said:

I second this.

I usually multi task, posting on System Wars and getting laid at the same time.

It wasn't a real question. Guess I should have phrased it better

I think Scorpio will succeed based on Microsoft's own expectations of it being fairly niche but not on the expectations of Xbox fans that are hoping it's the savior.

It's getting sad to see Xbox fans on twitter, reddit, and youtube losing hope while their idols like Crapgamer and Tim Dog are telling them to wait till E3 for everything to turn around.

Well, some one is getting screwed.

poor lems...

I agree that 4K doesn't really matter. I'd rather see larger more detailed games that are locked 60FPS and 1080p or how ever higher they can push it to keep games 60FPS

Well, devs will apparently have this option on the Scorpio and the Pro.

Micheal Pachter is often wrong with hes predictions and hes not a gamer. Hes forgotten or is ignorant to the fact gamers on the internet discussed and debated resolution for 3 years

Hes also ignoring the PS4 pro performance right now. Mass Effect Andromeda is checkboarding from a start point of 900p and it drops frames to 25 (its only a 30fps game on console)

I agree mainstream 4K gaming is not there yet, but he clearly is an idiot if think gamers will not notice performance differences between Playstation and xbox one games.

When he says powers don't matter? Battlefield 1 is 720p on xbox one and 900p on PS4 low to med graphical settings. So gamers will not want a console where this game would be 1080p native and 4K.

You going to be surprised how well it does when it releases. The Majority of xbox fans will buy this 1 to 2 years. And i think lot of gamers will buy the Scorpio as its best console for third party games.

While I somewhat agree with what he's saying, that we are definitely getting to the point of diminishing returns, I think he contradicts himself. He says that while his TV doesn't support the HDR in the PS4 Pro it doesn't matter because he will get a new TV that does so he is future proofed. In that case the same could be said about the Scorpio because while most people may not be able to take full advantage of the Scorpio immediately that ultimately shouldn't matter because people who have it will be future proofed as well, even more so then the PS4 Pro.

Huh, so you're saying it might be worthwhile to put some money aside for a Scorpio.

He's talking about 1080p tv's supporting HDR. Does this guy understand technology?

it'll matter to those console gamers that care about that kind of stuff, which is exactly who the Pro and Scorpio are marketed at.. if you're a console gamer who has a 4K HDTV and have the choice to get a Pro (that upscales games to 4K) and Project Scorpio (that will do native 4K and have an UHD Bluray drive), then that extra performance does indeed matter..

Is it going to tip the scales of the sales war?.. nope, I highly doubt it.. but as a consumer who plans to buy a 4K HDTV this year, I think Project Scorpio is going to be a worthy upgrade to my current Xbox One and would be a preferred purchase over a PS4 Pro for multiplats..

And sorta off-topic but not really, I wonder where these "you cant really tell the difference between upscaled and native" articles were at the beginning of this gen prior to the Scorpio announcement.. for the last 3 years, 1080p upscaled from 900p was trash compared to native 1080p but now, all of a sudden, 4K upscaled from 1440p looks basically the same as native 4K?.. boy, it didn't take long for that narrative to change..

And for the record, just like I believe there's little visual difference between upscaled 1080p and native 1080p under normal gaming conditions, I also believe that anyone with a 4K HDTV and opts to go with the PS4 Pro is going to get treated to some beautiful games that will basically look just as good as what's going to be on Project Scorpio in terms of your average gamer. this is unless most of Scorpio's games will be 60fps versus 30fps on PS4 Pro which would be an obvious advantage but we'll have to wait and see on that.. Yet with all that said, for the same $60 price tag and without any preference, it's undeniable that the potential of playing a native 1080p game on PS4 versus playing an upscaled 1080p game on Xbox One is a clear advantage for Sony no matter how you rationalize it in terms of both marketing and value.. That ideal just doesn't magically go away now that the shoe is going to be on the other foot.. and that's no matter how much fanboys (and apparently the gaming media in general) want to change the narrative all of a sudden..

1080P TVs could run HDR just fine. It is just no one makes 1080P HDR panels yet. HDR does not need 4K to work properly, but I don't think any manufacture will make 1080P HDR panels because these companies want to sell you 4K now.

That's my point...

It means people are full of shit. Just like the ones who argue that the difference between 1080p to 4k can be discern regardless of viewing distance.

@Pedro: Devs should totally be able to choose. I have a "4K" TV and it looks great but it's not true 4K no where near the quality of the higher end real 4K tv's and I'm perfectly fine with that because the picture is truly great and looks impressive.

A massive smooth framed games that's 1080p or higher is gonna look amazing especially if if there is some upscaling involved on the systems end or TV's end.

But either way Scorpio is needed cause Xbox One isn't gonna every be able to do that ?

I honestly can't imagine what it must be like being a die-hard true believer of XBox. You get bus thrown for the past 4 years for having an expensive and weak console. Then, the main competition starts dropping games on everyone like it's 1944 Berlin. Then, right as you feel like you've summoned the ultimate power for the counter-attack to end all counter-attacks, Nintendo drops a new console that is less powerful than your current one and people absolutely lose their shit for it.

Yeah yeah yeah, I am the Lord of the Anti-lems and all that, but objectively speaking, that fanbase has been utterly demoralized since 2010 and it's really starting to show now. They just can't pull the W, and their sheer insistence that everything is okay at every turn has been the instrument by which they have been dismantled. Following a brand that's Achilles Heel is it's intrinsic "me-too'ism" has to leave one distraught at this point. Like playing a fighting game with a broken controller.

I think you mean "he's" not "hes". Not trying to be a grammar Nazi but it's ironic that you're calling someone an idiot but can't tell that "hes" is not a word.

Wow, his ignorance on this issue gives me a headache.

Does he really not understand you need a HDR TV (preferably with WCG) in order to see HDR content?

Does he really not know what HDR is?

How can he give his opinion on the matter if he doesnt understand this? Or the relevance of 4K (or extra clarity)?

Wow Pachter..........

See folks, this is when you take the System Wars too seriously. You actually believe in the above statements.

@Shewgenja:

bu bu buut buut...those high quality pixels are on the way!

the same damn games at higher resolution makes them better games. like, p'chya, obvious.

No counter argument, then? Just the same tired ad-hominems?

@charizard1605: Why do you always post anti MS BS?

I'm just posting news. In both cases I have also noted I disagree.

@charizard1605: You said you largely agree lmao...

I said i agree with graphical diminishing returns. I did say that the Scorpio's extra power is not pointless, if Microsoft lets developers utilize it however they want. Which I am still holding out hope they do.

You can't counter foolishness.

@biack_goku: the problem is you think Xbox fans think they are in need of saving.

All the people I play with are happy with their Xbox. Has it had missteps? Sure.

But I don't feel disappointed with my Xbox and in fact them being in second place this gen actually has made them listen to the real fans more.

I don't really look at Scorpio as some savior, its just a continuation of the good things they've been doing since they started righting the ship.

I personally can't wait til E3 to see what else they have coming.

It's always been known that Scorpio would just render Xbone games at 4k with little to no added extra's, I'm pretty someone at Microsoft already said it.

Anyone who expected Scorpio is completely kill off Pro is in for a huge shock, when checkerboard rendering is implemented properly it's very very difficult to tell that it's not native 4k.

Heck Digital Foundry said in the Mass Effect video that the checkerboard implementation so can be so good that it looks like native 4k.....

1080p with good anti-aliasing is still more then adequate on the screens most people have.

Is Pro and Scorpio we're built to render at 1080p can only imagine how much better games would look.

"'Power is not that important anymore,"

Funny, power was plenty important when the PS4 came out of the gate. Why is it all of a sudden not important now?

Then why even release the Xbox Scorpio?

He's pretty much spot on. Console gamers don't care about graphics the same way as PC gamers do. They won't be able to tell the difference between checkerboard 4k and native (although Scorpio will barely be able to do native anyways). The way to sell the Scorpio would be through games and to call M$ offer there pathetic is an understatement.

Disagree. Power is important. It may not outsell the PS4. But why would it when the console has no games? Ouya has more exclusives than Scorpio lol

Of course it doesnt matter. Games sell consoles, not hardware. Hardware may sell a few consoles at the beginning when the sheep are blinded by the hype but its the games library that keeps console momentum going. MS has been TERRIBLE when it comes to exclusives and I dont see that ever changing

@Vatusus: Are you serious?.. The entire industry had Microsoft predicted as dominating this generation.. Given a time machine to make a few PR changes and adding some GDDR5 RAM and that forecast could easily have been true.. If Sony put out weaker hardware at a higher price in comparison to Microsoft, would "games sell consoles" still have resulted in a 2:1 sales advantage for PS4?..

Sony has played this generation masterfully so far, no doubt, and for the better part of the first three years, "better hardware" and "better mulitplats" has been at the core of that narrative.. Look at the most sold games on these platforms and tell me why multiplatform games are leading the charge.. These days, unless you're Nintendo, console exclusives are great additions but AAA multiplats out number exclusives by a very large margin in both quantity and sales and those are what's truly selling these consoles on the wider scale..

Just because Sony 1st parties have finally put out Uncharted 4 and Horizon in the last year doesn't mean you can rewrite history..

Patcher is killing it his predictions seem anti microsoft indeed

And now the Ouya is defunct. That was a failed analogy.

Having the most powerful console is a great thing; obviously, all else being equal, Scorpio will be the preferred gaming system for multiplats. But it means pretty much nothing for those of us who are PS4/PC gamers. If I didn't have a gaming PC, I'd probably buy my games on Scorpio. I also appreciate the fact that Microsoft has put a good effort into BC, because I still think there are some good 360 era games worth playing, some of which aren't on PC (RDR, Catherine, most Halo and Gears games, etc)

That said, power alone just doesn't mean much to me without exclusives. To own an Xbox One solely for superior multiplats seems odd when you could alternatively get a gaming PC. On the other hand, I think the PS4 has finally built up a library of exclusives which justifies its price tag even to PC gamers.

@Antwan3K: The irony of your statements is that you probably consider yourself to be among these console gamers that care about power for multiplats and that will be your excuse to buy a scorpio but you have spent the last 4 years justifying to yourself why power and better multiplats don't matter enough. Lol lems are funny they can't even lie to themselves well. The percentage of console gamers that actually care about power differences as the ones we have today is probably less than 1%. Power in console gaming is now mostly irrelevant, just like the scorpio.