The time has come - Sony, Nintendo and Microsoft working together...to fight the Chinese tariff,

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Ant_17

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#1 Ant_17
Member since 2005 • 13199 Posts

https://www.express.co.uk/entertainment/gaming/1144336/PS5-price-release-date-UPDATE-big-news-Sony-PlayStation-next-Microsoft-console

As mentioned above, there’s currently a window open for companies to share their own thoughts on the changes.

And Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo have responded to the Tariffs, putting forth an argument on why consoles should be made exempt.

There are plenty of other tech firms voicing their concerns too but with the PS5 and Project Scarlett hitting shelves in 2020, Sony and Microsoft will be keen to avoid any extra costs.

Tariffs could mean a rise in price for new and old products, although it’s unclear at this point what kind of effect these new tariffs would directly have.

Next gen AND curent gen will be effected. Wow.

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deactivated-5ea0704839e9e

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#2 deactivated-5ea0704839e9e
Member since 2017 • 2335 Posts

No i dont think so. Theyre already pushing the cost up a bit. Consumer want to see what theyre getting for their money, in that they want an immediately visible upgrade over xbox x. If that requires these companies (before tariff) to charge 500 or 600 dollars for a console, no way are they going to jump to, say, 800 dollars for example. At launch many people pick up an extra controller and a game or two. If the latter were the case that would make the initial investment over 1000 dollars.

Thats risking market crash.

More likely scenario is they find someway to charge $99/year for the psn/live service, or close to it. Or nickel and dime a few extra dollars on accessories.

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Ant_17

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#3 Ant_17
Member since 2005 • 13199 Posts

@heirren: Did you missed the part that curent console will also might get a price hike?

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deactivated-5ea0704839e9e

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#4  Edited By deactivated-5ea0704839e9e
Member since 2017 • 2335 Posts

@Ant_17:

Not going to happen. If anything theyll push the next gen out sooner than expected.

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dzimm

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#5 dzimm
Member since 2006 • 5914 Posts

Move production out of China. Problem solved.

/thread

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Pedro

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#6 Pedro
Member since 2002 • 41336 Posts

@dzimm said:

Move production out of China. Problem solved.

/thread

If only it was that easy.

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Howmakewood

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#7  Edited By Howmakewood
Member since 2015 • 6210 Posts

Wish more countries would tariff the shit out of china, not for Trump reasons, but those that are good for the rest of the world

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Pedro

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#8 Pedro
Member since 2002 • 41336 Posts

@howmakewood said:

Wish more countries would tariff the shit out of china

You do know that the citizens pay for the tariffs.

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dzimm

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#9 dzimm
Member since 2006 • 5914 Posts
@Pedro said:
@dzimm said:

Move production out of China. Problem solved.

/thread

If only it was that easy.

Nintendo has already begun the process.

https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2019/06/nintendo_moves_switch_manufacturing_out_of_china_two_new_models_reportedly_in_production

Sony and Microsoft need to get on the ball if they don't want to get strangled by China.

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Pedro

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#10 Pedro
Member since 2002 • 41336 Posts

@dzimm: Your link doesn't demonstrate that moving manufacturing out of China is easy.

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DaVillain-

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#11  Edited By DaVillain-  Moderator
Member since 2014 • 42952 Posts

@Pedro said:
@dzimm said:

Move production out of China. Problem solved.

/thread

If only it was that easy.

Nintendo is getting ready to pull out of China cause they don't wanna be effected whenever they release their upgrade Switch models. All that's left is Sony/MS.

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Pedro

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#12 Pedro
Member since 2002 • 41336 Posts

@davillain- said:

Nintendo is getting ready to pull out of China cause they don't wanna be effected whenever they release their upgrade Switch models. All that's left is Sony/MS.

Moving manufacturing is not an easy process. This is not like changing your ISP or getting your cake baked at another location. BTW I am not arguing that it cannot be done.

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Ant_17

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#13 Ant_17
Member since 2005 • 13199 Posts
@Pedro said:

@dzimm: Your link doesn't demonstrate that moving manufacturing out of China is easy.

Plus Sony and MS have more than just consoles to mass produce.

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dzimm

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#14 dzimm
Member since 2006 • 5914 Posts
@Pedro said:

@dzimm: Your link doesn't demonstrate that moving manufacturing out of China is easy.

When did I say it was "easy"?

Companies have two choices: 1) Move manufacturing out of China and enjoy the benefits of fair trade and competitive pricing; or 2) Stay in China and get strangled by the dragon.

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dzimm

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#15 dzimm
Member since 2006 • 5914 Posts
@Pedro said:
@howmakewood said:

Wish more countries would tariff the shit out of china

You do know that the citizens pay for the tariffs.

It's a lot more complicated than that. Higher prices can have a negative impact on sales and will shrink the customer base, meaning that passing on tariffs to the customer is rarely desirable for the company.

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Pedro

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#16 Pedro
Member since 2002 • 41336 Posts

@dzimm: You responded to my comment "If only it was that easy." which if you are countering you will be demonstrating that it is that easy. If you weren't countering my claim, then its settled.

As for your last paragraph, I am opting out. :)

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BenjaminBanklin

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#17  Edited By BenjaminBanklin
Member since 2004 • 6423 Posts

These tariffs might be the thing that ends up pushing people toward cloud gaming. Depends on how people react to possible 25% price hikes. Something console and PC gaming doesn't need right now.

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onesiphorus

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#18 onesiphorus
Member since 2014 • 3422 Posts

Did a similar thread made more than a week ago was locked because it quickly became too political? And by the way, would this be more appropriate for the Political Gamers forum? Tariffs are controversial politically and economically and such subjects should belong where politics can be discussed?

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faponte13

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#19 faponte13
Member since 2013 • 124 Posts

Looks like trump wants to crash a whole industry.

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#20 jeezers
Member since 2007 • 4952 Posts

they should leave china, that cheap slave labor isn't worth it now with the tariffs

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jeezers

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#21 jeezers
Member since 2007 • 4952 Posts

@Pedro said:
@davillain- said:

Nintendo is getting ready to pull out of China cause they don't wanna be effected whenever they release their upgrade Switch models. All that's left is Sony/MS.

Moving manufacturing is not an easy process. This is not like changing your ISP or getting your cake baked at another location. BTW I am not arguing that it cannot be done.

Nintendo would be smart to move manufacturing, if the others stay and Nintendo gets a jump on em, Nintendo will have a big leg up on the competition, screw china, they treat their workers like cattle any way

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WitIsWisdom

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#22  Edited By WitIsWisdom
Member since 2007 • 6230 Posts

No... just no. People are so damned gullible it's absolutely ridiculous. People getting mad at Trump when they don't even understand why he is doing it... lol. US economy at the highest its been in decades, all-time low unemployment rate, wages going up, jobs being created, prices not raising (other than at normal cost of living rates, despite people panicking), Mexico sending 15,000 additional guards to the border (at their expense) to help stop illegal border crossing... I could go on and on. Stop drinking the cool aid. The tariffs are a good thing and are only evening the playing fields. This should have been done a few decades ago, but no one had the balls to do it.

The only country benefitting from the deals we had before was China... which is why so many companies decided to move their business there in the first place. China will be the one that has to wind up making the big choices, either play fairly or lose the businesses that made it so much money to begin with. If they don't want their economy to tank then they will realize that it's not ok to be a mean kid with a magnifying glass burning ants on the sidewalk any longer. If they don't want to even things up then those same companies won't stay there, which will either force China's hand, or they can be stubborn and lose them to other countries...

Making things an even playing field and bringing companies and workers back to the US isn't evil or greedy, they only went there in the first place because of terrible business decisions and agreements made by former government officials.. The next thing you know China took off, and it left lawmakers and the government scratching their heads.. lol. I love when people think it's ok for China to do this, but not ok for us to fire back and even things up. The good old Democratic fake news machine is always hard at work brainwashing the gullible and flipping the script in any fashion they can to get the results they are looking for. #walkaway

Either way, I'm not going to be political anymore on this forum since it's hard to get away from that crap on a day to day basis let alone on a gaming forum. I won't respond back, but just know I'm not wrong. Hopefully someone learned something. It's just funny seeing people spout off about things they have absolutely no clue about because it is the "popular thing" and they hear other people that have no idea what they are talking about spouting off as well. That's how the social elite democratic party operates.

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#23  Edited By WitIsWisdom
Member since 2007 • 6230 Posts

@jeezers said:
@Pedro said:
@davillain- said:

Nintendo is getting ready to pull out of China cause they don't wanna be effected whenever they release their upgrade Switch models. All that's left is Sony/MS.

Moving manufacturing is not an easy process. This is not like changing your ISP or getting your cake baked at another location. BTW I am not arguing that it cannot be done.

Nintendo would be smart to move manufacturing, if the others stay and Nintendo gets a jump on em, Nintendo will have a big leg up on the competition, screw china, they treat their workers like cattle any way

Bingo, and that is the whole idea. Companies will either stay with China while their government remains stubborn and feel the consequences, move their operations to another country and not have to worry about it, or China will have to reconsider it's approach and start playing fairly. Any solution is a good one for consumers and the global economy outside of China, which is only as strong as it is today because people have dealt with their horrible policies for so long.

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WitIsWisdom

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#24 WitIsWisdom
Member since 2007 • 6230 Posts

@dzimm said:
@Pedro said:
@howmakewood said:

Wish more countries would tariff the shit out of china

You do know that the citizens pay for the tariffs.

It's a lot more complicated than that. Higher prices can have a negative impact on sales and will shrink the customer base, meaning that passing on tariffs to the customer is rarely desirable for the company.

Exactly, which is why China will either play fairly or lose them anyways. It might not look good in the short term, but a lot of people can't seem to see that it is a marathon not a sprint. Evening the playing field now ensures that prices will stay fair and everyone has a piece of the pie for years to come.

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#25  Edited By Gatygun
Member since 2010 • 2018 Posts

Lol aint going to happen, the whole reason he rams those taxes on there is that he wants those company's to move out of them.

What's they should do is ask china for compensation or move out of china or deliver a cheaper product Upping prices is going to be business suicide.

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Ant_17

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#26 Ant_17
Member since 2005 • 13199 Posts

To all that think Sony and the rest will move their factories to the US, Thailand exists.

https://www.gizmochina.com/2019/03/28/sony-closing-smartphone-plant-in-china-moving-production-to-thailand/

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#27  Edited By ronvalencia
Member since 2008 • 29612 Posts

@Pedro said:
@dzimm said:

Move production out of China. Problem solved.

/thread

If only it was that easy.

Both PS4 and XBO are also sourced from Japan and Brazil respectively.

Trump's traiff on China also benefits Latin Amercia. China has nearly 400 million in middle class, hence it's time to move significant amount of US trade benefits away from China towards Latin Amercia and that's helping Latin Amercians in thier home countries.

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deactivated-5d1e44cf96229

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#28  Edited By deactivated-5d1e44cf96229
Member since 2015 • 2814 Posts

I support what Trump is doing on this particular matter. It's about time that somebody stands up to China.

And I don't expect console prices to rise from this because I ultimately expect that Trump will win this trade war since China has too much to lose if they don't agree to play fairly. And if not then many companies will move out of China which would ultimately be good for the rest of the world in the long term.

People need to stop being so short-sighted and look at how what Trump is doing on this matter will be a good thing in the long term. Either getting China to play fairly or having companies move out of China would both be good in the long term.

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#29 faponte13
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@WitIsWisdom: its wierd that in 2016 when unemployment was at 4.6 percent somehow the economy sucked and everything was going down the drain. 2 years later the unemployment rate is 3.8 and everything is going amazing. Like .8 percent makes all the difference in the world.

Inflation has been the same for about the last 4 years so what are you talking about.

Lets talk about short sightedness. We are having normal growth with tax cuts and increased goverment spending. That extremely short sighted. Your kids and there kids are going to be paying for this economy for a long time.

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#30 Jag85  Online
Member since 2005 • 14787 Posts

Original source:

Comment from Gina Vetere, Microsoft Corp., Nintendo of America Inc., Sony Interactive Entertainment LLC (Regulations.gov)

Opening statement:

Microsoft Corporation (“Microsoft”), Nintendo of America Inc. (“Nintendo”), and Sony Interactive Entertainment LLC (“SIE”) respectfully submit these joint written comments in response to the Office of the U.S. Trade Representative’s (“USTR”) request for public comments regarding products imported from China that could be subject to tariffs pursuant to USTR’s Section 301 investigation of China’s acts, policies, and practices related to technology transfer, intellectual property (“IP”), and innovation.

At the outset, we note that we support the Entertainment Software Association’s (“ESA”) submission requesting removal of a broader range of videogaming-related Harmonized Tariff Schedule of the United States (“HTSUS”) subheadings from the final tariff list. As leading video game console manufacturers, we submit this separate submission to highlight the enormous impact and undue economic harm that proposed tariffs on video game consoles would have on the entire video game ecosystem. In particular, tariffs on video game consoles would:

  • Injure consumers, video game developers, retailers and console manufacturers;
  • Put thousands of high-value, rewarding U.S. jobs at risk;
  • Stifle innovation in our industry and beyond.

While we appreciate the Administration’s efforts to protect U.S. intellectual property and preserve U.S. high-tech leadership, the disproportionate harm caused by these tariffs to U.S. consumers and businesses will undermine—not advance—these goals. Accordingly, we respectfully request that the Administration remove HTSUS subheading 9504.50.00, covering video game consoles, from the final list of tariffs, and thus refrain from applying tariffs on these products.

Top five reasons why console makers should be exempt from tariffs:

  1. Our Companies and the Video Game Industry Drive U.S. Economic Growth and Technological Innovation
  2. Video Game Consoles Are Highly Specialized Products With Complex Supply Chains
  3. Beyond Video Game Console Makers, U.S. Consumers, and U.S. Retailers, the Proposed Tariffs Would Asymmetrically Harm Small and Medium-Sized Software Developers Across America
  4. Tariffs Could Hinder or Delay Technological Innovation in a Broad Range of Applications Beyond Gaming
  5. Imposing Tariffs on Video Game Consoles Would Not Be “Practicable or Effective to Obtain the Elimination” of China’s Problematic IP Practices

Click on the link for more information.

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Star67

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#31 Star67
Member since 2005 • 4748 Posts

@WitIsWisdom: You're delusional if you think any of those jobs are coming back to the US, they're going to go to some other south east Asian country.

Even if some do come back.......it'll all be done by robots

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#32  Edited By Jag85  Online
Member since 2005 • 14787 Posts

@Star67: Yeah, the trade war will only end up hurting both the US and China. But other countries could benefit from the fallout.

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#33  Edited By ronvalencia
Member since 2008 • 29612 Posts

@Jag85 said:

@Star67: Yeah, the trade war will only end up hurting both the US and China. But other countries could benefit from the fallout.

Other low wage countries benefits from US's tariff on Chinese trade.

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ronvalencia

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#34 ronvalencia
Member since 2008 • 29612 Posts

@Jag85 said:

Original source:

Comment from Gina Vetere, Microsoft Corp., Nintendo of America Inc., Sony Interactive Entertainment LLC (Regulations.gov)

Opening statement:

Microsoft Corporation (“Microsoft”), Nintendo of America Inc. (“Nintendo”), and Sony Interactive Entertainment LLC (“SIE”) respectfully submit these joint written comments in response to the Office of the U.S. Trade Representative’s (“USTR”) request for public comments regarding products imported from China that could be subject to tariffs pursuant to USTR’s Section 301 investigation of China’s acts, policies, and practices related to technology transfer, intellectual property (“IP”), and innovation.

At the outset, we note that we support the Entertainment Software Association’s (“ESA”) submission requesting removal of a broader range of videogaming-related Harmonized Tariff Schedule of the United States (“HTSUS”) subheadings from the final tariff list. As leading video game console manufacturers, we submit this separate submission to highlight the enormous impact and undue economic harm that proposed tariffs on video game consoles would have on the entire video game ecosystem. In particular, tariffs on video game consoles would:

  • Injure consumers, video game developers, retailers and console manufacturers;
  • Put thousands of high-value, rewarding U.S. jobs at risk;
  • Stifle innovation in our industry and beyond.

While we appreciate the Administration’s efforts to protect U.S. intellectual property and preserve U.S. high-tech leadership, the disproportionate harm caused by these tariffs to U.S. consumers and businesses will undermine—not advance—these goals. Accordingly, we respectfully request that the Administration remove HTSUS subheading 9504.50.00, covering video game consoles, from the final list of tariffs, and thus refrain from applying tariffs on these products.

Top five reasons why console makers should be exempt from tariffs:

  1. Our Companies and the Video Game Industry Drive U.S. Economic Growth and Technological Innovation
  2. Video Game Consoles Are Highly Specialized Products With Complex Supply Chains
  3. Beyond Video Game Console Makers, U.S. Consumers, and U.S. Retailers, the Proposed Tariffs Would Asymmetrically Harm Small and Medium-Sized Software Developers Across America
  4. Tariffs Could Hinder or Delay Technological Innovation in a Broad Range of Applications Beyond Gaming
  5. Imposing Tariffs on Video Game Consoles Would Not Be “Practicable or Effective to Obtain the Elimination” of China’s Problematic IP Practices

Click on the link for more information.

For RX 5700 series, AMD made sure "Made in Taiwan" is clearly marked on their RDNA presentation.

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ronvalencia

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#35 ronvalencia
Member since 2008 • 29612 Posts

@faponte13 said:

@WitIsWisdom: its wierd that in 2016 when unemployment was at 4.6 percent somehow the economy sucked and everything was going down the drain. 2 years later the unemployment rate is 3.8 and everything is going amazing. Like .8 percent makes all the difference in the world.

Inflation has been the same for about the last 4 years so what are you talking about.

Lets talk about short sightedness. We are having normal growth with tax cuts and increased goverment spending. That extremely short sighted. Your kids and there kids are going to be paying for this economy for a long time.

Under Obama's admin, you have Federal Reserve Bank pumping large amount of cash into system which is not needed under Trump admin. .

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Jag85

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#36 Jag85  Online
Member since 2005 • 14787 Posts

@ronvalencia: The advanced 7nm semiconductors and memory chips used in AMD's latest processors are designed and manufactured by Taiwanese company TSMC. That's why it's "Made in Taiwan". China doesn't even have 10nm fabrication facilities yet, but is lagging behind with 14nm semiconductors.

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#37  Edited By EG101
Member since 2007 • 2091 Posts

Big electronics companies need to move production of their tech elsewhere.

MS for instance once used to produce Xbox consoles in Mexico and Sony used to produce PS consoles in Japan.

China violates every tech companies patents, IP, etc. and the Chinese government is the one who allows this to be legal in China. Chinese tech companies are allowed to steal any tech sold or manufactured in China.

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phbz

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#38 phbz
Member since 2009 • 6169 Posts

Make American prices greater!

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Jag85

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#39 Jag85  Online
Member since 2005 • 14787 Posts

@EG101: Japan would be too expensive to expensive to manufacture consoles. Same goes for America. Labour costs would be too high in Japan and America. On the other hand, most third-world countries with cheap labour lack the adequate infrastructure for tech manufacturing. That's why China is an ideal place for tech manufacturing. It has relatively low labour costs along with established infrastructure. It would be very costly to move production out of China, as you would need to build factories and infrastructure in whatever country you move production to.

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Raining51

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#40 Raining51
Member since 2016 • 1151 Posts

Super dramatic over the top.