The Last of Us Part 2- Story Discussion (Spoilers)

Just finished the game 30 minutes ago and my question is; What the hell just happened? Right now I'm still in the middle of my thoughts and don't know what to think about it, there is a lot to process. I enjoyed early moments of the game a lot playing as Ellie. There were some sections that dragged on for too long and there were some pacing issues but overall I was having a great experience. Once you are half way through the game you are given control of "villain" Abby. Then you spend rest of the time playing as her.

I get it, they were trying to show that every story has 2 sides and I understood it too. In fact I really liked some of the WLF characters too like Owen for example. Really felt bad over his demise. However the plot in that second half played no role in main story line. It was just a side quest or felt like an expansion pack. The characters you try to protect are not likable much. In fact that kid "Lev" was pretty annoying in the beginning and due to his stupidity so many people get killed. If only he could sit in the room as he was told to. From there the game drags on for way too long until you get back to the main story right in the end.

Then I wished for the ending because I was kinda exhausted but realized I'll have to play over an hour of slow paced epilogue again as Ellie. After grinding my way through it, I reached the final fight. Ellie leaves her family to avenge Joel's death. But then she doesn't even kill Abby. She returns home after getting her two fingers eaten. What was the point of going after her and leaving your family? The payoff wasn't satisfying after nearly 30 hours of playthrough. For better or worse, the gameplay remained the same as it was in TLOU. Despite pacing issues it was really fun. But frankly I've no idea what to think of overall experience ATM. However I'll definitely won't give it a 10 or a 4. Both critics and users are supporting two extremes.

What are your thoughts?

Oh, Ellie got Golem'd? Haha

Sorry, nothing to add, I just found that funny.

It's a 10 as a game. It's a 7 or 8 as a story for me. I enjoyed seeing things from Abby's point of view. I see it this way. Imagine playing as David from the first game for a while. Will it make you sympathize with him? Hell no. He was a cannibal. But it would have given us more insight into who David and his group where, besides being bad people trying to kill Ellie and Joel.

Did I feel sorry for Abby? Nope. And I don't think the game actually wants you to either. The story just shows you that a person you'd normally call a villain is just the person on the other side of the fence. Abby and Ellie are both flawed people. If this game was in reverse and we got Abby's story first, we'd likely hate Joel's guts and would gladly take a golf club to his face, just like you felt relieved and justified when Elie chopped David's face to pieces.

As for the ending, I was actually relieved that Ellie didn't kill Abby. Although Ellie isn't any better for what she's done, choosing to let it go at that moment was the start of her redemption. Just like Abby befriending Lev and Yara was the start of hers.

I think the story is decent, not amazing or anything but pretty good. Perhaps a bit clumsy here and there. As for the ending I thought that it was pretty good. The “payoff” was Ellie having that moment of clarity in the futility of revenge, losing everything in search of it, and in being a better person. I found it kind of a powerful moment myself.

The story sucks......,i didn't like it at all. Terrible and boring story,the first one story was a lot better.

Oh god, another one of these threads. Half of the threads on the 1st page are about TLOU2. Can't all topics be placed into 1?

Also, I give the game a 9.2/10. It's the story they wanted to tell, not me. They did a great job with the writing and overall elements.

Abby kills Joel and Jesse that's it.

Ellie's party kills Abby's Dad, love interest, pregnant friend and ALL her other friends.

But then Abby lets Ellie go.

Abby is outcasted by her community and stuck with some annoying kid trying to survive while Ellie lives a peaceful life with her new family.

But that's not enough for Ellie...she has to go and finish Abby off.

What Druckmann attempted here didn’t work for me. At all.

Once Abby stoved Joel’s head in, it didn’t matter how many dogs I played with, Ferris wheels I jumped off of, aquariums I toured, how many times I had sex with my friend, or how many kids I saved. Nothing could overcome my dislike of her at that point. Perhaps had she earned the right to kill Joel by having me do that shit BEFORE she rearranged his brain matter with a 9 iron, I’d feel differently. But you know you’ve seriously ****ed up narratively when players literally don’t want to continue the game when they realize they have to play as this character after that fact.

I think it also didn’t help because Abby, on her own merits, really isn’t that compelling or endearing of a character. Even had she not murdered Joel, there’s nothing I found about her all that relatable or deep. What made Joel so interesting was the fact that we witnessed him losing a daughter right off the bat, so much of his character’s appeal was founded and built on the player’s empathy and sympathy for something good, something borne of love and loss. Everything we did as him from that point on, right or wrong, we viewed through that lens and understanding. With Abby though, we’re launching off with her on a basis of hate and vengeance. It’s close to the first thing we see of her that is at all meaningful, and hate is something that most people don’t relate to (or don’t want to), especially when it’s absent context, and especially when she kills a beloved character.

First impressions are important. They stick, the rest of the experience is seen through that impression, and hate isn't a foundation I think many players want to launch off from or retroactively attempt to justify. I’ll always remember Joel as a loving man who began by losing his daughter, Ellie as a young, innocent naive girl who was curious about a lost world, and Abby? As nothing but a hateful, vindictive brute. She’s not interesting, likable, her entire character has been predicated upon hate, and I hope this is the last we see of her.

I see 3 threads on the front page of System Wars about TLOU2.

Having everything into 1 thread is a dumb idea since you get a bunch of different convos/topics being mashed together with different conversations on top of each other and it makes it tough to parse.

This is not a new phenomenon. Most major game releases will flood these boards with countless threads made, especially when these big releases are exclusives. It's just another day, another week, another month in SW. Couldn't expect anything less.

I very much like the ending, watching Ellie walk off into the distance, having lost everything. And there is no way to deny the mastery at work with respect to environments, animations, and occasionally enemy encounters. I do wish there was more substance to the infected and the Seraphites, but the reason there wasn’t was largely due to splitting the game between Ellie and Abby. And on that note...

I can’t stand playing as Abby. I don’t like how they set her up, her motivations, and I don’t particularly think Laura Bailey did a good job in her portrayal. On paper, Abby should have worked, but instead she made me wish they had opted for a different narrative direction entirely. Plus the final sequence in Santa Barbara is abrupt and fleeting. It’s inclusion would have been fine if Abby’s section was half or a third of what it was. If TLOU3 happens and Abby is in the game, consider me out.

@cloud_man: I feel your pain man. I got so damn tired of the constantly flash backs. So many aspects of the story are more fantasy and so illogical that it just got to be so ridiculous. I knew of Joel dying and heard the rumor that Abby might be trans. But I still gave it the benefit of a doubt and picked it up. I enjoyed the mechanics and gameplay for the most part. Environment was good. Game looks pretty. Not the best graphics but definitely top tier. But the story is not good. It’s just not. I don’t see anyone outside of media critics giving this story a good rating. The combat, mechanics, gameplay and for the most part level design, this game is a 8.5/9 all day out of 10. But with the story attached and how this game is pushed and leaning on a story, it’s 6.5/10. Overall it’s good. But it’s got a lot of problems.

The first one has probably the best story ever in a video game is a as close to a 10 as you can get even though the mechanics and gameplay were clunky. This game is kind of a joke.

There's a difference between something being bad and you not liking it.

I'm tired of repeating my opinions for Last of Us 2 cause I spend my time over at the hype thread. I already it and finish it and I give it a 7/10.

With all that said, I'm focusing on Ghost of Tsushima next as my hype PS4 game and the final PS4 exclusive to go out with a bang starting July.

I haven't played it yet, probably gonna pass on this one at this point. Watched spoilercast including ones with the creators. They attempted something that worked for some and didn't work for others. Mostly seems to me they created a story that alot people did not want out of there beloved characters. I think its not just about the Joel thing but what happens to Ellie as well. The burden was on them to then hit it out the park. It did for some it failed for most. I really liked and understood different take from both side. ND did not make it easy on themselves as the project just has alot of things its pushing. The character that should have carried this flip for example is one that most players don't want. Then the way they deliver the story asks players to pick up and peace things together, as there already mad does not work well.

After seeing Joel die I have 0 motivation to even play the game anymore, then watching Hallow finish the game I just can't fathom how bad the ending was.

Abby is literally the most dumpster fire character in gaming.

If you wanted to kill off Joel have him die saving Dina/Ellies kid or saving Tommy, hell have him take that bullet for Jesse but no we had the most bull *** death in gaming, his whole death scene was against his character

There's very few people in the world Joel trusted, even giving out his name to randos was beyond out of character. He literally got the Luke Skywalker treatment.

Then there's Ellie...what did they do to my girl, the game could have been saved if it wasn't for the ending and she pussed out. Again out of character, Joel meant everything to her and the TLOU 1 showed us that when Joel was taken out for awhile and you got to play as her in the first game, she was savage as **** and she did it as what a 14 year old girl???. Not getting revenge wasn't the thing Joel would have wanted, imagine if Ellie or Tommy got the club, you think Joel is gonna be like "nah I forgive you"...HELL NO. Ellie even stated to Tommy after Joel died "if it were them he'd be half way to Seattle by now".

Then having Abby as a playable character....excuse me while I wipe the spit off my face from Duckman...you could of let us play as Dina, Tommy or even Jesse before he got dropped. NO ONE WANTED TO PLAY AS ABBY, it's like killing off Shepard in Mass Effect and playing as his/hers killer, killing off Cloud in FF7 and you play as Sephiroth, killing off Link and you play as Ganon and the list goes on, there's a reason why writers DON'T DO THAT.

The game looks amazing graphic wise and I did love that they kept the gameplay as close to the first as possible but god damn....the story makes Mass Effects 3 ending look like the best thing ever.

Seriously listen to this.

I watched 15 minutes of "I'm personally ok with this", i'm not gonna bother to watch the rest.

@R10nu said:

@Zero_epyon said:

Seriously listen to this.

I watched 15 minutes of "I'm personally ok with this", i'm not gonna bother to watch the rest.

What's wrong with learning about both sides of the conflict? Should we not learn about Hitler's rise to power and ultimate defeat?

Imagine still trying to defend this wonky ass narrative.

Not if it's a fluff piece entirely centered around Hitler loving his country, children and dogs, and how despite losing the war he'd won a moral victory in the end.

Did Abby really do that though?

@Zero_epyon: In case you missed it behind subscribing to random youtubers' shaky opinions, yes.

@R10nu:

That depends on whose side you took. Abby killed Joel for killing her dad but in doing so, she also killed Ellie's father-figure. She saw that and saw what Joel meant to Ellie and still went through with it. She didn't have to do it and even she saw that it was ultimately evil.

yea i watched the end on youtube. its one of those endings that leaves you unsure.

like those artsy movies. the sopranos also had one of these type of endings.

from what i saw the ending either means ellie forgave joel. or she didnt. your left to decide if she did or not.

her not killing abby could mean she couldnt forgive joel for what he did and let abbey live. OR she let abbey live because she forgave him. joel was dead so ellie never was able to fully forgive him so instead she forgave abby.

idk thats how i see it.

Ok so Abby loses her dad, gets revenge on the murderer, and spares some of the people trying to kill her = Hitler?

Man people were really bothered about Joel being killed.

Either one of those is a valid interpretation. I was actually relieved that Ellie didn't kill Abby. I see them meeting again and possibly becoming allies.

I think the story is great, for the most part. Don't know exactly why people have so much trouble with the story. I'm even of the opinion that Abby's half has higher highs than Ellie's. It does have a problem, that whole part of going after Lev to the island could be better if fully developed as dlc. As it is it's just bloat.

I enjoyed the revenge story. The look at the impact Joel's decision had in other people's lives. And how individuals act within tribes/organisations.

It's not a stretch to imagine that the doctor who had the possibility to save the world, and Joel murdered to save Ellie instead of the world, wasn't exactly a symbol for evil. Nor was Joel's decision morally immaculate. The first game was never a good Vs evil flick, that's why comparisons with Nazism are just ignorant.

Also, Joel's decision obviously would have tremendous impact on Ellie. She lives in a completely fucked up world, a world she could cure, and then discovers Joel lied to her.

The ending of part I is not so different. The whole first game is you fighting against all odds to transport Ellie for a cure, and once you're at your objective you turn your back.

Abby is a great character. In the context of the narrative, she is the daughter of a doctor that while trying to save the world is murdered by Joel. Her father was not evil. The path to revenge is clear, the character's motivations are well grounded. Her relationship with Owen is really well written and acted.

Even the Scars characters, I enjoyed them. But like I've said in the beginning, there's a whole part on that that shouldn't be in the main game.

The story has some pacing issues. The game could drop a few hours and be much better for it. But most of the narrative issues it has are issues pretty common to story heavy video games. The difference is that on top of that has unparalleled quality levels. Graphics, world building, sound design, acting, art direction, animation, level design are stellar. Plus gun combat, melee and stealth are really good.

Even if the story was the worst thing ever (and it isn't) there's still an excellent game here.

Shut up you cow! /sarcasm

Seriously that's all there is to the game but people are too hurt about Joel to realize it.

@Zero_epyon: Let's make a WWII game where you start playing as the Allies for the first 30 hours.

Then the next 30 hours you play as Hitler and personally execute (gas, shoot, torture) jews, gays, etc. And let's try to sympathise with Hitler.

Then after 60 hours its back to the present(1945) time and Churchill and Roosevelt decide:

"Nahhh, Hitler wasn't so bad, let's send him off to a protected life of luxury in the Cayman Islands"

I wonder if the soyboys over at ND would ever make a game like that lol. (systematically killing gays and having you play and sympathise with those executing them)

Seriously don't get the comparison between Abby and Hitler. You guys are being ridiculous.

It's sad the amount of people still try defend that garbage ass story, what they did to joel, making us play as abby and the ending just destroyed any hope for tlou 2

This guy speaks the truth on what they did to joel

I'm one of the biggest TLOU fans ever, I think it easily game of the decade and one of the top 5 greatest games of all time. I heard people hate about the leaks, and I assumed it was about Ellie's kiss and lesbian relationship with Dina that made people rage so I spent 23 hours enjoying one of the greatest games I have ever played, and possibly one of the only 3 or 4 games I would ever give a perfect score of 10/10.

Then after playing a flawless masterpiece for 23 hours (I was fully immersed, collected and looted everything, so probably longer than most people), we for some reason have to play as a big ugly butch dike of a woman that's suffering from ILS. Not cool. I googled to see if I could get spoiler-free answers on how long we have to play as Abby. The result is I made Abby die about 20 times down in that store then deleted the game. I mean sure I rolled my eyes at the fact that it took only a few minutes before the word 'bigot' was used 3-4 times, and the whole lesbian in your face thing was a bit much, but the SJW propaganda go elsewhere.

Went from 11/10 to 1/10.

@Mozelleple112: That's just so silly.

@phbz:

Well no point in spending what would probably take me another 15-25 hours to finish only to go back AND NOT get the opportunity to pick off every single one of Abby's fingers one by one. then pull out her tongue. Or something cool like that.

With all the talk about the violence (reviewers feeling sick, not being able to continue, wanting to avoide combat altogether, etc) I was really looking forward to Ellie doing something absolutely brutal. poke her eyes out or something. Anything. Nothing in the first half is particularly violent. At least no where even close to making one feel ill or "not wanting to play the game".

No amount of throwing ball with a cute dog will make me sympathise with her. They can make TLOU3 where juice-monkey Abby cures cancer and Joel is a serial pedo and I still won't take her side.

@Mozelleple112: Thankfully the game is selling well enough without you.

This game reminds me a lot of The Last Jedi. It forsakes continuity and character logic for the sake of having a "moment." It drives away consistency and pacing for the sake of "depth." It doesn't care if there's a hole or a character has to be ridiculously stupid to make the plot happen, the plot will happen. And of course it's wrapped in a big budget bow of gloss and cinematography so you won't notice. If you like production quality over story structure, then you might still love it.

I've mostly watched playthroughs and have barely dabbled in playing so far, and sure, I feel like the gameplay is certainly very good. But the game just isn't written well from an overarching perspective. Moment to moment it's good, like random inconsequential dialogue feels very authentic, and it seems to have a lot to say (even if it's message is extremely obvious: violence bad, treat everyone equal), but it starts bursting at the seems before it ever takes off. Maybe that would be okay if it were a light-hearted affair or comedy, but the game takes itself deadly seriously. It just doesn't come together like it should.

To me it seems like they should have just made a whole new franchise for the message they wanted to convey, but maybe Sony just told them no.

@phbz:

What has that got to do with anything? I bought the LIMITED edition copy of this game. I literally gave ND $250 of my money.

I contributed more money to TLOU2 than 99.99% of gamers. I would even claim 100%, but IDK, there's probably that 0.001% that bought lots of merch and stuff.

I'm glad you realized how ill-equipped you are to argue finer details of the game's ending and decided to be deliberately obtuse instead.

@MirkoS77 said:

Wouldn't it be the funniest shit ever if Druckmann decided to retcon a loving daughter to David instead of that random-ass doctor?

Playing as a righteous vengeful daughter of a cannibal chomo for 10 hours. After she eats Joel's heart.

@R10nu: how does a leader who committed genocide and the same level as Abby? How does the game try to make you sympathize for Abby when clearly she’s only really liked by like two people in the whole game. She straight up sleeps with Owen tries to steal him back despite knowing he’s gonna be a baby daddy for another one of her friends. She turns her back against the WLF for a single person. She had no loyalty to anyone but herself. In a way, she’s kind of like Joel. But whatever. I have to hate the game because Abby = hitler somehow.

Such a good game. I'm glad that it doing well it comes to how people bought the game.

Interesting answers. I think reviewing games like these or games in general these days is becoming a bit difficult. It depends on person and what he prefers. Being an old school gamer I kinda still have soft spot for gameplay. If you are in just for the story and were very emotional about characters in the last game, you'll probably think this game is 6 or 5. May be even 4. I on other hand won't disregard the gameplay entirely. Despite pacing issues, I actually did enjoy the gameplay, presentation, some characters and small touches like enemy encounters and the way they interacted with each other even though writing in second half was a complete misfire. I think I'll give it an 8 as an overall experience. However, I don't think I'll return for a second walkthrough anytime soon.

That ending is some "martha" level nonsense.

Oh I don't know, by making you play her for 10 hours, during which she pets dogs, saves baby zebras with her super awesome and kind dad, has a super diverse cast of friends, one of which is her childhood sweetheart, and even goes out of her way to help her sworn enemies who've been waging war with her group for 4 years, because they saved her life.

Yet she doesn't even hesitate to torture Joel, who also saves her life, in front of his family because a grudge from 4 years ago is somehow much stronger than a grudge of a tribal war you're engaging in every single day.

Oh, and if she's only liked by 2 people in the game, how come there's 8 people that went AWOL with her and joined a wild goose chase across 1000 miles of infected-ridden land on horseback just so she can find a middle-aged dude named Joel and get her petty revenge.

Which she literally wouldn't even be able to do upon getting there if he didn't miraculously fall onto her lap, wearing a "Hi i'm Joel, the killer of fireflies extraordinaire" badge.

Joel didn't go on a cross-country journey with his 8 loyal friends to find the commander who gave order to shoot Sarah.

Yeah, you're right, even Hitler wouldn't torture to death someone who saved his life moments ago. Even Hitler cared deeply about the friends he'd lost during WW1 instead of moving on like they never existed.

They say "you judge a man not by how he treats his friends, but by how he treats his enemies". And with the way Abby treats Joel at the start of the game she becomes utterly irredeemable. There's no humanity to be salvaged from her, no matter the amount of animals and kids she saves, like with David from TLOU1. I don't care to hear his sob story for 5 minutes, let alone play him for 10 hours.

How did Abby's body become like that, that's not by any means normal even for women who use roids. Some kind of mutation experiment? They didn't explain this.

From what we can gather from the game, one taco a day.

Burrito.