The Last of Us 2 Thread - GS Review 8/10

I stopped at the flashback within a flashback part. It's dragging on way too fucking long. I'll get back to it once I finish Persona 5 Royal.

No, an agenda isn't solely about inclusion nor representation. An agenda differentiates itself in the fact that it makes it of predominant importance to elevate one aspect of something above others, typically to its detriment. TLoU didn't do that with Bill, nor Ellie, nor Henry or Sam. All of their differences were incidental to their characterization, and not included simply to check off an ideological quota box.

Let's take a look at TLoU 2:

We have a lesbian main character, one bi supporting, one trans (Lev), an extremely androgynous antagonist she-hulk to appeal to the trans community, am explicit sex scene with her, a sex scene with Ellie and Dina, the "Dr. Uckman" superhero card that's "fighting for equality" (and paints him as an villain for doing so), a rainbow crosswalk, two rainbow flags, a "Book of Gay" , and not to forget......."Bigot sandwiches", as the very first thing the game makes you do is go see a straight white guy (big shocker) homophobic bigot to get an apology. Of which to no surprise, Ellie essentially in so many ways tells him to get bent.

But let's move onto the second half, because it doesn't end there.....The WLF home base where the majority of female NPC characters are extremely androgynous in their designs. They're male bodies with female heads. From what I saw, there are only four characters with female traits in the game: Nora, Mel (largely because she was with child), Dina, and Maria. Even Ellie, with her San Diego model, had broad shoulders and the physique of a man. This isn't including the scene with Lev speaking on his gender crisis identity problem, nor of the Sepharite female brutes who I can only assume to be products of genetic experimentation, because I can see no narrative justification for their size in a game that's been very grounded in its fiction up to this point. And to top it all off, the game closing with a shot of Ellie running away with the guitar in the foreground, with a butterfly on its neck, a LGBT symbol. Is that enough? If not, perhaps people should look at ND's past statements, actions, and affiliations, which throws even more evidence onto the pile.

Any one of the above aforementioned inclusions, or even a few, wouldn't cause me to question anything. But taken altogether? To attempt to argue that no agenda or pandering is present here (as many are doing) in light of all this is insanely disingenuous, intellectually dishonest, and downright delusional. TLoU II is bursting at the seams with it, even worse than I suspected it would be after the trailers arose my suspicions. And just to clarify: that I believe there's one at play doesn't mean I stand against what is being pushed by it. I welcome all diversity and representation. I highly enjoy playing as both Ellie and Abby, both female leads, and desire more of it. But I'm tired of people insulting my intelligence by trying to tell me there's no agenda here, and a harmful one at that.

And to answer you question, it matters because in such execution, Druckmann has caused more opposition to the cause he wishes to further more than any bigot out there could've ever hoped for. Just look at the push-back such hamfisted and forced execution has created. You think people aren't going to look at future games that strive for diversity and representation and hold the worst of suspicions after this? There are many games out there with progressive content that didn't create such a fuss. Why? It is not because the bigots suddenly decided to come out of the woodwork only for this game.....it's because those games were smart, respectful, and not so laughably overt in their implementations. Just like TLoU, but not like its sequel.

So keep fighting the good fight, Druckmann. Thanks a lot.

What is the agenda? I keep asking but no one has yet to reply to me.

The argument is a post above, and even quotes you in the chain.

@MirkoS77:

What is the agenda been pass on?

That whole post, describes the agenda. I'm not gonna fall on either side, but can you not f*cking read? @MirkoS77 breaks it down, in quite some detail.

Wait wait wait.

First, Bill lived on his own after his partner died from getting bitten. Who were they going to show him with? Joel?

Second, did you miss Left Behind where Ellie makes out with Riley?

Third, Henry and Sam were side characters for a single chapter. Thankfully Ellie and Joel aren't racists POSs and race wasn't a factor. Unless you think it should have?

You also seem to miss that Tess also had an androgynous design. It's almost like constantly fighting to survive makes your physique a certain way. What do you want? The female soldiers to look like playboy models? That's asinine. This is what women look like in the military:

OMG THE US MILITARY IS TRYING TO PUSH THEIR AGENDA ON US!

Lesbians exist (which shouldn't be a surprise since you should have known Ellie was gay seven years ago). A bi-woman was needed to introduce the family element that Ellie would eventually lose. People like lev will continue to exist and was necessary to explain why he and his sister were on the run from the Scars. Would it trigger you less if it were something more generic like stealing or killing someone?

Also, Abby is muscular for a reason. She isn't built like a tank from childhood. She dedicated her life to preparing to fight and hunt down Joel for killing her father. You know women can be muscular and not have it affect their sexual orientation right? She served as a soldier for years and became very good at what she does. But you have to claim agenda because she's not visually appealing to you? Sounds like a you problem.

The push back isn't coming from people using rational thought processes. It's actually coming from weak men who can't stomach the fact that the avatar they play as is either a dangerous lesbian or a military-trained muscular woman. Grow up dude.

PS. Most people are actually upset about Joel getting murdered at the beginning of the game and not that there's a child who wants a male role in his/her society.

Yeah I just saw it and replied.

Saw that as well. TBH, i'm largely the same with quotes. Sometimes I just forget or forego.

Again, I'm not denying that an agenda is present. I certainly agree that it was purposefully put in there. The difference being that I never saw it as a detriment (outside of sex scenes as they're bad in any video game). WLF body specifics and Seraphite hammer wielders though? That seems like nitpicking. But if you have qualms about a narrative agenda getting in the way of execution that is totally fair.

But to clarify when you say 'But I'm tired of people insulting my intelligence by trying to tell me there's no agenda here, and a harmful one at that.', what exactly is the harmful part you mention? There is a clear difference between, 'This content is harmful to promote' -and- 'The execution of this narrative is harmful to its own interest.' The latter of which I agree to some extent in this case.

Well folks, I finally finish TLOU2. I'll give it a 7/10 and a few pointers:

• Graphics was stunning but on the other hand, there was too much film grain. Graphics was almost on par with God of War 4.
• Gameplay plays like Metal Gear Solid 5 and pretty much in a good way.
• The sound was spot-on.
• The story was poor.

Here's my grip, its Abby for starters. The game really tries so hard for you to feel sympathy for her and I'm pissed it should have let players play Abby first and foremost to understand what's really going on and it totally breaks the immersion as you progress. The problem is, Abby tortures Joel and this ruins any chance for someone to emphasize with the character. Joel deserved to die yes I understand but it was completely unnecessary for her to go that far. Also, why am I playing as the villain for 10+hours in a game that is supposed to be a The Last of Us game?

Neil Druckmann is a hack...or a genius how you view him but that's another story. Naughty Dogs dedicated almost half the game to humanize and make the player empathize with her and her crew. It's not even subtle or nuanced...They literally try to make her and Lev seem like a mirror to Joel and Ellie. To me, it failed to capture that immersion. And this is something that, if it doesn't manage to hit it ruins a lot of the game and story. It's simply an impossibility for many people after the way she's introduced. She's a victim of poor writing, first make us care for her before she does the irredeemable horrible thing to an established character we already connected with from the previous game.

Is it worth a play? I'd say yes but wait for a price drop and the way this game plays to tell the story, expect to go in as if its Game of Thrones doesn't get close to the character's development.

@davillain-: It feels to me that the story is jumbled up. If the timelines were a bit different, I think it could work. The pacing hurt my playthrough.

But I cannot sympathize with Abby, whatsoever. I dropped the controller when I felt like her part is dragging for too long. As I said, I'll finish Part 2 after I finish Persona 5 Royal.

You guys, you guys. There is an agenda, yes. But if you want to know the target you are going to have to look much, much higher.

Spiritual wickedness is no joke.

Here's how I see it:

Joel killed Abby's father, prevented a cure from being developed, and caused the fireflies to be disbanded. Which means he killed her family, her future without infected, and her home with the fireflies. She gets revenge after years of trying to track him down. In pursuit of her revenge though, she loses Owen, becomes a cold killing machine, and is continually haunted by the memories of her murdered father. Abby goes through the same things that Ellie goes through later on in the game. Ellie is traumatized by Joel's death. Seeks revenge which ends up costing her relationship with Dina becomes a cold killing machine, and almost kills Abby, but pulls back.

When I had to play as Abby to fight Ellie, it clicked for me. Swap Ellie out for Abby and you'd end up with the same story. Each one has their reason, each one goes down the same path psychologically, both end up being murderous monsters. People empathize more with Ellie because we connected with her in the first game and we all felt like we were protecting her like our own daughter. But that doesn't make Ellie a good person. She's just as bad and I saw it when fighting her.

Think about it. First Joel kills her dad. Then, when she tries to put her past behind her, 4 people show up and start killing her friends and tried to kill her. When Abby confronts Ellie, she yells "I know why you killed Joel. It's because of me and that we don't have a cure." This was wrong. Ellie had no idea Joel killed her father. But even so, after realizing that Abby's killing of Joel was justified, she still tried to kill Abby. Twice! lol.

I also believe Abby never wanted to be a WLF. She didn't really care all that much about them. Her loyalty was always to "The Salt Lake Crew" which were all fireflies. She even hints at it in the first scene where she says to Owen that they should keep heading south to Mexico. She ultimately just used the WLF's resources to hunt for Joel and to become stronger. I don't think they were trying to humanize her with Lev. Lev was a refocusing of priorities for her. With Joel dead, she was ready for something else and that happened to be helping out the two kids that saved her life and leaving Seattle for Santa Barbara with Owen, at least until Mel checks her.

I don't see Abby's story as one of redemption. More of a person who accomplished her goal and is ready to move on. We don't get that from Ellie until about a year later in California.

Phew that was a big one...

What I'm really upset by is this:

Why isn't anyone talking about the SECOND DATA DISC? I did not expect that at all! Who does ND think they are? Rockstar?

Just finished. This game was absolutely brilliant. There were a few narrative issues (which I can't really talk about without spoiling big parts of the game), but overall, Naughty Dog really outdid themselves, and this might be the most well-executed (read: well-executed, didn't say "best") narrative I've ever seen in a video game.

I hope everybody is able to comprehend that not liking something does mean it was bad; it means you didn't like it. The fact that any of the disdain for this game stems from having representation "shoved down your throats" is simply dumb. If that's your problem with the game, then don't play it. It's clearly not meant for you, so go play something else.

This game was challenging, it made you question the motives of its characters, it made you think. You leave it not knowing if this was the right way to go, and that's the whole deal with the universe of The Last of Us. This world is absolutely horrible, and people have to live accordingly. There are no good people, there are only less bad ones. And how to assess that is not clear cut.

The Last of Us Part 2 was exactly what it should have been, and had it been anything else, it shouldn't have existed in the first place.

"This world is absolutely horrible, and people have to live accordingly. There are no good people, there are only less bad ones. And how to assess that is not clear cut."

Exactly this! This was the theme in the first game and what helped form Joel's final decision in the first game. There's no going back because people aren't good anymore. There are only those on your side of the wall and those who aren't. And as we saw in the game, your side can change in an instant.

And this game really doubled down on that. By the end of it, you really don't know how to feel, anymore. Did anybody make the right choice? Was any action justified? Was anybody worth sparing?

Another criticism I have for those who have finished it: Did anyone else find the Rat King boss out of place? An amalgamation of different bodies together as one? This seemed like some sort of resident evil sh*t. It didn't really fit the lore of the fungal infection. Maybe it's just me though.

@HoolaHoopMan: The systems of Last of Us 2 really didn't support an encounter like that. There were a few points in the game, where I thought: this game wasn't designed to facilitate something like this, and that was definitely one of them.

It made sense to me since that level of the hospital hasn't been touched since the outbreak. All those infected people locked away and barricaded within the hospital. The rat king is probably a consequence of the fungus cannibalizing itself to stay alive all those years. The one that split apart from it didn't seem to want to be part of the rat king. I'm just glad they didn't try to include it again as some games do. It was a unique one-time thing.

@Zero_epyon: I was talking to a buddy of mine, and one thing that I think would have made that entire encounter better was: instead of insta-killing you whenever it got a hold of you, it threw you through a wall and landed you on the other side of the level with like 5% health. That way, you still had at least somewhat of an opportunity to regroup, but still keep the encounter super tense, the way a boss fight should be.

just started playing, is it just me or was anyone else a bit disappointed. I enjoyed Last of Us 1 a bit more.

@MirkoS77: "An agenda differentiates itself in the fact that it makes it of predominant importance to elevate one aspect of something above others, typically to its detriment"

If tlao2's agenda is to elevate homosexuality, then by your logic every bro shooter elevates heterosexuality.

I just dont get how anybody in 2020 can play a video game or watch a movie that has gay characters, and cry "agenda" when gay people are actual real world people.

Honestly if I had locked myself in a cave for the period leading up to tlou2's launch, I would have started the game and thought "Cool, a welcome change in casting characters...".

I just don't get the outrage from some, unless it's based on fear of gay people....in which case they really do need to get some kind of help.

@realistic44: just me? Have you been living under a rock, or you just like to play dumb.

After reading some of the comments, I'm glad I didn't fall for the hype and waited for a price drop. Not paying $60 for a torture porn soap opera.

Still haven't received my copy, **** this.

@Epak_: where the hell did you order from?

VPD, you're from Finland right? Their FB page has other people too who are still without a game.

Yeah, I just walked in and picked my copy from verkkokauppa, big off regardless from vpd

@briguyb13:

So in other words you dont take reviews into account,but would take the word of blind biased joke of a posters from this site as some kind of valid reason to skip getting the game?

You know what is sad here? That you get mad when some one call you a blind lemming,yet look at you always throwing mud at sony while kissing MS ass for everything they do.

So again i was right you are a blind lemming,dont worry i am sure sony will not die because a hater didnt get TLOU2.

I'm downloading the digital version now, grew tired of waiting for one kusinen game :P Gonna return it when/if it arrives.

@lundy86_4:

No all he did was cry about the main character been a lesbian and other been based on their sexual orientation,did he cry like this when the characters were straight on a game?

So the whole tears is about lesbian,if she was a freaking whore with huge boobs no one would have complained.

Who the fu** cares if the characters are lesbians or not,people should not let their freaking prejudice block enjoyment of something is pathetic.

The only problem here is people who have issues,and cant see past them,i dont care if a character is gay,straight,lesbian,trans,bi or a freaking nun.

Is the game good? Do the damn mechanics work? How are the graphics? Does it has any bugs that break the game?

No then i am fine,people should stop crying about this stupidity,if you has issues with any of the rainbow comunity that is not the developers fault is his,and it was known that the main character was a lesbian way before release.

@tormentos: There is an agenda here, same agenda that has been invaiding the entertainment industry for the last 10 years.

Your already to brainwashed to see it. Congratulations you are now a complete PC zombie.

Those of us that can see what going on and don't agree with it, are humanities last hope.

@davillain-: Good, honest criticism of the game. The problem with Abby has nothing to do with the identity politics, but her godawful characterization. Regardless of how you feel about the concept, Abby as a character could have been executed much better. As you are a mod, do you think I should make a topic on Political Gamers about this game? Would be nice to at least see more discussion about the actual game, rather than agendas.

What's the agenda? Is the gaming industry trying to change people's sexual orientation?

@Zero_epyon: Right? Ellie's been a gay character since the first game, and we've known that her relationship with Dina was going to be a big part of the story since the first E3 trailer several years ago. Why people are shocked about any of this now is beyond me.

Characters in stories, believe it or not everybody, sometimes have relationships with other characters in the story...

Okay, please listen. There is an agenda. It did not start with this game, and it won't end with it. It is wide-reaching, encompassing various mediums. It doesn't end with entertainment, either. Far from it. That's all I'm going to say about this particular aspect because going any further into it will transform this thread into utter chaos.

So, the game. The game is about discernment. Let's call it moral discernment. You could replace 'moral' with 'spiritual' and it would work fine, as well. So, morals. What are the morals of TLoU2? What are morals, period? These are the questions that need to be asked. The world of the game is an obviously dark place. Right and wrong becomes easily blurred. If you were in that world, like really, actually there, would you know what to do? Would you know the true difference between right and wrong?

The point is, TLoU2 is filled with impossible situations. 'Impossible' meaning that right and wrong seem no longer to exist. Or maybe some think only wrong exists, and wrong people along with it. Bad people, because that is the only kind that can survive in such a hellish place. Perhaps. Or, perhaps, even in said place, the right thing to do still does, in fact, exist, and good people exist as well, who do the right things, make the right moral choices.

Again, if you existed in the world of TLoU2, would your moral discernment carry you through? Would it tell you the difference between right and wrong? Would you listen to it if it did? Or would you become blind to what is right, and confused about what is wrong, and walk the land not knowing how to act? Would you simply react, no longer possessing a moral compass? What would you become?

What are you right now? The real world is falling apart. People are angry, fighting each other. Screaming at each other. Toppling statues, burning buildings, flipping over cars. They're worried, scared, doubtful of the future. Do you know what is right, and what is wrong in these times?

In the game, you are presented with choices. Or rather, the characters have choices to make, and make them. You do not truly have the freedom, as the player, to do what you wish. You have a little leeway here and there, but ultimately you are left watching decisions being made, and then have the option to think about said decisions. That option is not freedom. The game does not, at least in a literal manner, ask you, 'Okay, what would you do here?', meaning that you can say whatever it is you, the player, would do, free of limitations. And of course it does not ask that. It's a game. It is also an arranged drama. It forces you into situations, and forces you to watch events that you are not controlling, and, for the most part, have no control over. You simply ingest what is placed before you.

Again, there is an agenda. That agenda, in large part, is designed to dampen and ultimately dissolve your powers of moral discernment. It is not about homosexuality, transgender this or that, race, gender, etc.--but it uses these things. It uses these things to bring about arguments, to make us fight. To divide us.

You may come away from TLoU2 not knowing how to feel about the events in the game, if what people did was right or wrong. There is one thing to remember. Regardless of any given situation, the right thing to do still exists. It always will. True, pure morals do not die. They are eternal. They are law. In the midst of chaos, wrong is not made right, nor right made wrong. This game, and other games/movies/etc. like it try to blur your notions of moral correctness. But there is a way to break the spell.

Look into your heart. That is where the truth lives.

We are here to live and to die for each other.

We are here to love each other.

I love you all.

Have a nice day. :)

@IMAHAPYHIPPO: I dont think we should put everyone in the same basket here.

There are good and bad reasons to dislike this game.

Let's be honest, representing minority groups in a game does not necessarily mean an agenda is being pushed. However, there are things in this game's narrative, such as an extremely early event, that reeks of an agenda. I was willing to give the game my benefit of doubt, because Druckmann often likes writing characters in many different roles. But alas, too many events and dialgoue in this game reeks of an agenda being pushed... hamfistedly.

I don't think this game does the LGBT community any favors and neither do many members of the LGBT community, with members of the LGBT community calling the game "Misery Porn" and I suspect some transwomen will very much feel very uncomfortable, as in "Triggers my Gender Dysphoria" Uncomfortable with Abby.

I am not opposed to games having agendas however, but I think Druckmann should read more books. They handled a lot of the topics he wanted to talk about MUCH, MUCH better than he did.

@Zero_epyon:

First, Bill lived on his own after his partner died from getting bitten. Who were they going to show him with? Joel?

What's your point? All I'm saying is that Bill's orientation was incidental to his character, that's it.

Second, did you miss Left Behind where Ellie makes out with Riley?

Perhaps your definition of making out differs from mine, but Ellie's kiss in LB was simply a sign of affection to further character growth, it wasn't some carnal lust borne of her sexuality that was made the focus. Apparently you missed that if you believe "making out" was all they were doing.

Third, Henry and Sam were side characters for a single chapter. Thankfully Ellie and Joel aren't racists POSs and race wasn't a factor. Unless you think it should have?

Again, it was incidental to their character, not the focus.

You also seem to miss that Tess also had an androgynous design. It's almost like constantly fighting to survive makes your physique a certain way. What do you want? The female soldiers to look like playboy models? That's asinine. This is what women look like in the military:

Woman in the military are in shape, but their frames and general indicators of their biological sex do not change within that context.

What I expect is for them to retain some semblance of feminine characteristics. Abby is ridiculously portrayed in her physique, modeled after Colleen Fotsch, someone who not only has a man's build, but dedicates her life to her discipline. Hours in the gym per day, a high caloric intake incompatible with living in an apocalyptic setting (not to mention a lacking of steroids and growth hormones, which these athletes use). I'm not expecting them to appear as playmates, but at the very least to hold general distinguishment from their male counterparts: namely, hips to bear young, smallish shoulders, and a general smaller frame. As TLoU had, and no, Marlene had a woman's figure.

Yet apparently, I'm the enemy in 2020 for having the gall to suggest that men and woman, generally speaking, hold differentiating traits respective to their biology. How dare I, right? What a bigot.

OMG THE US MILITARY IS TRYING TO PUSH THEIR AGENDA ON US!

Lesbians exist (which shouldn't be a surprise since you should have known Ellie was gay seven years ago). A bi-woman was needed to introduce the family element that Ellie would eventually lose. People like lev will continue to exist and was necessary to explain why he and his sister were on the run from the Scars. Would it trigger you less if it were something more generic like stealing or killing someone?

And I have no trouble with Dina, this was to be expected given Left Behind's revelation. But no, Lev wasn't at all "necessary" to explain anything aside highlighting a demographic minority because an ideology of inclusion dictated it. And again, I don't have a problem with this inclusion, but spare me the argument that it's not borne of agenda.

lso, Abby is muscular for a reason. She isn't built like a tank from childhood. She dedicated her life to preparing to fight and hunt down Joel for killing her father. You know women can be muscular and not have it affect their sexual orientation right? She served as asoldier for years and became very good at what she does. But you have to claim agenda because she's not visually appealing to you? Sounds like a you problem.

This has nothing to do with what I wish to see.

You realize that turning women into husks of men isn't necessary to portray their strength, yes? Perhaps I differ from the majority, but apparently I'm living in lala land because I think that to turn a woman into a man to make them "strong" devalues them at their most core integrity. It's insulting, because it automatically assumes males to be the superior default that females should strive to be in accordance to one biological distinction. If you want to be respectful to women and truly empower them, empower them on being WOMEN, not trying to achieve what is considered a strong man. Hone in on their maternal instinct, on their instinct to nurture, to protect, which is one of the most powerful on the planet. Physicality is such non-determinant of strength, determination, and will power......men and woman alike, and I'm beyond sick and tired of this increasing trend to turn women into men. Fucking sue me.

Aside this to say and respective to the fiction, bulking up is nothing but stupid in this universe. If you were smart, you'd be lean, agile, and seek a runner's body, because bulk would do nothing but unnecessarily encumber you in a world where, even if you were armed, that would be a last resort and you'd be running your ass off most of the time to survive (as was many times shown in the game). You are always going to be outnumbered, and if you get into a melee brawl where your bulk would assist you, it wouldn't matter because you'd be near your end. Bulk does absolutely nothing for you aside slow you down, so even in narrative justification I can't buy it.

The push back isn't coming from people using rational thought processes. It's actually coming from weak men who can't stomach the fact that the avatar they play as is either a dangerous lesbian or a military-trained muscular woman. Grow up dude.

PS. Most people are actually upset about Joel getting murdered at the beginning of the game and not that there's a child who wants a male role in his/her society.

It's as if you can't read, so let me C & P what I previously wrote:

"I welcome all diversity and representation. I highly enjoy playing as both Ellie and Abby, both female leads, and desire more of it"

The push-back is coming from people (aside the few opportunist bigots) who have an actual head on their shoulders who can remove themselves from being blinded by their ideological predilections and recognize what is happening right in front of their face. I'm sorry you can't. I wish I could tell you to grow up as well, instead, I'd have to tell you to grow a brain.

So is this Abby character m2f, f2m, or is that left to the viewers interpretation?

I watched a few clips of the gameplay and I find it ridiculous that a 90lbs female can overtake any character she does - especially the butch whatever at the end. But I guess it’s trendy to push an agenda over reality in today’s sad climate.

Positions like this always make me wonder if people believe that agendas actually exist in the world.

Do you believe they can, or not? If yes, what do you believe is the differentiating factor from an agenda from the excuse that "these people exist in the real world", therefor there's no agenda?

She's an actual woman, but there is a trans character.

What I'm hearing you say is that:

• Sexual orientation of a character should never be highlighted or portrayed heavily.
• Women shouldn't look like masculine. Ever.
• It's impossible for women to be muscular like Abby without steroids (like wow)

I'm starting to wonder if you've actually played the game or not. But let me refresh your memory:

Abby is in the WLF military. They aren't starved. They have a functioning city with power, food, and water. They have a strength training facility that you literally walk past in her Day 1 chapter with Manny. She pretty much destroys a burrito in two mins. She spends most of her time either fighting or maintaining her physical condition. If you want to claim it's unrealistic for her to be bigger than a normal woman, you have to also have a problem with those hammer wielding scars that are like 6'10 300 pounds. Which are both male and female. Where are they getting their steroids from to grow that large on that island?

The assumption that a woman has to be on steroids in order to have large muscles is rooted in misogyny. But I guess that's the agenda right? To normalize anti-misogynistic behavior?

"You realize that turning women into husks of men isn't necessary to portray their strength, yes? Perhaps I differ from the majority, but apparently I'm living in lala land because I think that to turn a woman into a man to make them "strong" devalues them at their most core integrity. It's insulting, because it automatically assumes males to be the superior default that females should strive to be."

What in the world are you talking about? Is Ellie portrayed as a weak character even though she's smaller than Abby? You're literally spending so much time on Abby's physique that you ignore that Ellie could have killed Abby multiple times in this game. Heck, even Tommy came close to it. So did Dina. In all cases, Abby is spared either by being saved by a secondary character or spared by Ellie herself. What good was all of her muscles if Ellie could still kill her if she wanted to?

Abby being as strong as she was made for interesting combat mechanics. She has unique character abilities that Ellie couldn't do like crushing an infected skull with a single punch and chaining them together. That made the game more interesting to play through while you went through Abby's story.

"The push-back is coming from people, aside the few opportunist bigots, who have an actual head on their shoulders who can remove themselves from being blinded by their ideological predilections and recognize what is happening right in front of their face. I'm sorry you can't. I wish I could tell you to grow up as well, instead, I'd have to tell you to grow a brain."

What's ND's goal with this game? What's the agenda? All I've heard about is what makes you uncomfortable and that the agenda is there but I have to be smart enough to notice it. Reveal the secrets please! Let me learn!

I love this game. Does this mean i'm LGBTQ certified?

Yes! The Agenda has worked on you!

God this is exciting. Calling my mom to let her know!

Ha

I apologize, it is just my perspective, I like the story a bit more in Last of us 2 but the gameplay was better imo in last of us 1.

@Advid-Gamer:

What is the agenda.😂