The importance of Japan (long)

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Danm_999

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#1 Danm_999
Member since 2003 • 13924 Posts

I want to preface my little hypothetical with this; I'm not a blind fanboy or even a Lemming. I certainly don't think Microsoft or the 360 are infallible, or that they will definitely win this generation, or are even the best product on the market. Halo 3 is not the be all and end all in my mind, and I'd really rather the library of the Wii or PS3 than the library of the 360, since so much of it crosses over the PC.

That said, hoping my point is not torn down in 1 sentence as Lemming gibberish; is Japan really a pre-requisite for a console's global dominance?

Some people have said that you cannot win a console generation without Japan, but is that necessarily true? Is it that having Japan is an element to victory, or simply that popularity in Japan is an element all previous console companies have had in common (ie, Sega, Nintendo, Sony). Think about it this way, since the video game crash in the 1980s and the NES revival, Microsoft is the first major non-Japanese console manufacturer. Is saying Japan is necessary because every winning console in the past has dominated it as hypothetically incorrect as saying a President of the US must be a man in order to be good, because all good Presidents in the past were all man, despite the fact that there was never been a female President?

Thus far, Microsoft has had trouble penetrating Japanese culture in terms of video games. I really feel it's incorrect to take the view this is simply due to Japanese elitism or xenophobia, as of course, other things like baseball and iPods have had no difficulty thriving in Japan. More reasonable causes in my opinion, are that many of the best selling Western games are unnappealing to Japanese gamers (ie, American football games, some shooters, though I've heard Gears of War wasn't badly received, action etc).

This, some have argued, is a cultural flaw to the Xbox which cannot be reconciled, that loss of Japan is bad enough, but without Japanese support, their best titles will not be available from Microsoft in the West, and thus it will be unwinnable. I see degrees of truth to this. On the one hand, many Japanese games, such as Gran Turismo, Pokemon, Mario and Final Fantasy, sell extremely well in the West and are a huge impediment to the 360's success. On the other hand, many of the best selling franches; The Sims, Madden, FIFA, GTA, are Western based.

Is the 360 simply a console with a huge hole, or is it attempting to emulate the only form of popular gaming that has thrived despite lukewarm support from Japan; PC gaming. Theoretically, isn't there a possibility that the 360 can succeed in a similar style to PC? (which despite many inane topics here, is experiencing expansionary software sales and increasing popularity in key titles such as the Sims and WoW).

My last question would be, while Japan is certainly a region of cultural importance, is it of economic? The populations and the GDP of both the US and EU far outweigh that of Japan, so theoretically, one could certainly survive with dominance in those two regions (albeit a more pronounced dominance to make up for weakness in the third region).

My feeling is that Japan isn't vital for Microsoft to outperform the PS3 or Wii on a global level, though without, it will be much more difficult to do.

Thoughts/opinions?

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Panzer_Zwei

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#2 Panzer_Zwei
Member since 2006 • 15498 Posts
So far, all the consoles that have been the so called "generation winners" if you care for that, have won Japan. So that's why the feeling that Japan is the key for victory. Japan's importance in videogaming shouldn't even be disputed though.
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coreygames

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#3 coreygames
Member since 2005 • 5027 Posts
GO find the book titled "1up" (the subtitle is like: The invasion of Japaneese culture to videogaming). It is my gaming bible.
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Danm_999

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#4 Danm_999
Member since 2003 • 13924 Posts

So far, all the consoles that have been the so called "generation winners" if you care for that, have won Japan. So that's why the feeling that Japan is the key for victory. Japan's importance in videogaming shouldn't even be disputed though.Panzer_Zwei
I touched on this issue, yes. As I said, can be consider Japan a vital element to victory, or just a coincidental commonality of all victors (which is not hard to believe since it's mainly 3 firms).

 

As well, I'm not disputing Japan's importance by any measure, merely whether or not it is ALL important (ie, without it, there can be no success of any measure).

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lazzordude

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#5 lazzordude
Member since 2003 • 6685 Posts

japan is a key part in determining the winner,but you could win without them.

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Panzer_Zwei

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#6 Panzer_Zwei
Member since 2006 • 15498 Posts
[QUOTE="Panzer_Zwei"]So far, all the consoles that have been the so called "generation winners" if you care for that, have won Japan. So that's why the feeling that Japan is the key for victory. Japan's importance in videogaming shouldn't even be disputed though.Danm_999
I touched on this issue, yes. As I said, can be consider Japan a vital element to victory, or just a coincidental commonality of all victors (which is not hard to believe since it's mainly 3 firms). As well, I'm not disputing Japan's importance by any measure, merely whether or not it is ALL important (ie, without it, there can be no success of any measure).

Of course there can be success, just look at PC gaming, which is remarkably low in Japan, but it's doing just fine by mainly west support only, and most Japanese games are just console ports. But there's a reason why MS is putting so much efford and expending too much money to penetrate Japan. Japan is a very important market, and without dismeriting western developers, the whole lot of Japan's weight a lot more.
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fuzzysquash

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#7 fuzzysquash
Member since 2004 • 17374 Posts
The three largest videogame markets in the world are the US, Europe, and Japan. So while I don't know if Japan is absolutely crucial to victory, it is a huge potential market no console maker can ignore. That's why Microsoft is trying so hard over there.
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HuusAsking

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#8 HuusAsking
Member since 2006 • 15270 Posts

Thus far, Microsoft has had trouble penetrating Japanese culture in terms of video games. I really feel it's incorrect to take the view this is simply due to Japanese elitism or xenophobia, as of course, other things like baseball and iPods have had no difficulty thriving in Japan. More reasonable causes in my opinion, are that many of the best selling Western games are unnappealing to Japanese gamers (ie, American football games, some shooters, though I've heard Gears of War wasn't badly received, action etc).Danm_999
I want to put a few questions on this specific paragraph. Sure, some western things have worked out in Japan, but the ones that have survived for the longest time have two things going for it: they've been at it for a long time and they've subtly altered themselves to better fit in. Baseball and McDonalds fit into this category. They've been in Japan for a considerable length of time (relatively) and have a few cultutal alterations to let them fit in better.  Then you have runaway hits like the iPod. You have to be careful with stuff like these. There's the risk you're hanging on to a fad (like ganguro) rather than a true hit. Rumors are flying that iPod sales in Japan are starting to drop as more Asians turn more to feature-rich smartphones that can play MP3s and still do texting.

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ZinkOxide

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#9 ZinkOxide
Member since 2006 • 633 Posts
Plus, whoever is winning in Japan will get the most and best Japanese devs.
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Danm_999

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#10 Danm_999
Member since 2003 • 13924 Posts
Plus, whoever is winning in Japan will get the most and best Japanese devs.ZinkOxide
That, in my opinion, is probably the most important factor in all of this, because it ensures a large degree of success in both East and West.
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Luigi_Vincetana

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#11 Luigi_Vincetana
Member since 2004 • 7389 Posts
Japan is needed because Japan is around 25-30% of the entire market.
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Danm_999

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#12 Danm_999
Member since 2003 • 13924 Posts
Japan is needed because Japan is around 25-30% of the entire market.Luigi_Vincetana
According to Sony, out of about 115 million units shipped (I suppose since it's last gen we can say shipped=sold), Japan was about 20% of sales, while USA and EU floated around 40% each. So important, but not all important. Certainly, you'd need extreme dominance in both NA and the EU to make up for shortfalls in Japan. http://www.scei.co.jp/corporate/data/bizdataps2_e.html
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#13 Luigi_Vincetana
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[QUOTE="Luigi_Vincetana"]Japan is needed because Japan is around 25-30% of the entire market.Danm_999
According to Sony, out of about 115 million units shipped (I suppose since it's last gen we can say shipped=sold), Japan was about 20% of sales, while USA and EU floated around 40% each. So important, but not all important. Certainly, you'd need extreme dominance in both NA and the EU to make up for shortfalls in Japan. http://www.scei.co.jp/corporate/data/bizdataps2_e.html

That's still a huge percentage of the market to be missing out on. Plus anyway, Japan was in a recession during the PS2 era, now Japan has come out of that recession. There is potential for the Japanese market to expand (it'll depend on what rate of growth they can achieve now).
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Danm_999

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#14 Danm_999
Member since 2003 • 13924 Posts
[QUOTE="Danm_999"][QUOTE="Luigi_Vincetana"]Japan is needed because Japan is around 25-30% of the entire market.Luigi_Vincetana
According to Sony, out of about 115 million units shipped (I suppose since it's last gen we can say shipped=sold), Japan was about 20% of sales, while USA and EU floated around 40% each. So important, but not all important. Certainly, you'd need extreme dominance in both NA and the EU to make up for shortfalls in Japan. http://www.scei.co.jp/corporate/data/bizdataps2_e.html

That's still a huge percentage of the market to be missing out on. Plus anyway, Japan was in a recession during the PS2 era, now Japan has come out of that recession. There is potential for the Japanese market to expand (it'll depend on what rate of growth they can achieve now).

That's a good point, to what extent was Japan restrained by economic downturn last generation. Could it have reached the levels of the USA and EU PS2 consumption.
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#15 Oni
Member since 2002 • 1649 Posts

There's so much talk about trying to win Japan. I think the most important question to ask is: "Does it effect me"? This Generation isn't like the past. Nintendo is trying to push a new game-play control mechanic with "Wii-mote". MS is trying to push on-line game-play to the next level with live and Sony with PS3 are trying to push their blu-ray format.  It's not the same game, I don't understand why people think it is. Is Japan important? IMO, Japanese seem more interested in portable gaming these days (just look at their top 30 console game charts), so I would have to say NO. Are Japanese game developer support important, YES! That's what's really important, don't you think?

As long as 360 is getting great titles, does it really bother you if the Japanese people would rather be playing Dragon Quest on their DS? 

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Idonomeus

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#16 Idonomeus
Member since 2006 • 2273 Posts
The US market is the most important. Any company that can win there would have a good chance of winning the console war. Last gen it was the PS2 but this gen it's up for graps. Europe and Japan are important but if you look at games sales the US is by far the most important market. If you think I'm being America-centric I'm not even American. Look at the numbers.
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Luigi_Vincetana

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#17 Luigi_Vincetana
Member since 2004 • 7389 Posts
[QUOTE="Luigi_Vincetana"][QUOTE="Danm_999"][QUOTE="Luigi_Vincetana"]Japan is needed because Japan is around 25-30% of the entire market.Danm_999
According to Sony, out of about 115 million units shipped (I suppose since it's last gen we can say shipped=sold), Japan was about 20% of sales, while USA and EU floated around 40% each. So important, but not all important. Certainly, you'd need extreme dominance in both NA and the EU to make up for shortfalls in Japan. http://www.scei.co.jp/corporate/data/bizdataps2_e.html

That's still a huge percentage of the market to be missing out on. Plus anyway, Japan was in a recession during the PS2 era, now Japan has come out of that recession. There is potential for the Japanese market to expand (it'll depend on what rate of growth they can achieve now).

That's a good point, to what extent was Japan restrained by economic downturn last generation. Could it have reached the levels of the USA and EU PS2 consumption.

I'm not entirely sure, but I do know video gaming would have done better in Japan last gen had their economy been in a better state. For this upcoming gen I'm will to bet that the Japanese market will become more important as a combination of a healthier economy and the increased effort by devs to expand the target audience.
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Idonomeus

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#18 Idonomeus
Member since 2006 • 2273 Posts

[QUOTE="Danm_999"][QUOTE="Luigi_Vincetana"][QUOTE="Danm_999"][QUOTE="Luigi_Vincetana"]Japan is needed because Japan is around 25-30% of the entire market.Luigi_Vincetana
According to Sony, out of about 115 million units shipped (I suppose since it's last gen we can say shipped=sold), Japan was about 20% of sales, while USA and EU floated around 40% each. So important, but not all important. Certainly, you'd need extreme dominance in both NA and the EU to make up for shortfalls in Japan. http://www.scei.co.jp/corporate/data/bizdataps2_e.html

That's still a huge percentage of the market to be missing out on. Plus anyway, Japan was in a recession during the PS2 era, now Japan has come out of that recession. There is potential for the Japanese market to expand (it'll depend on what rate of growth they can achieve now).

That's a good point, to what extent was Japan restrained by economic downturn last generation. Could it have reached the levels of the USA and EU PS2 consumption.

I'm not entirely sure, but I do know video gaming would have done better in Japan last gen had their economy been in a better state. For this upcoming gen I'm will to bet that the Japanese market will become more important as a combination of a healthier economy and the increased effort by devs to expand the target audience.

I don't think that's likely. In terms of population we are looking at 127 million in Japan, 300 million in the US and 486 million in the EU and that's not the only PAL region. The economic downturn was not so big it would have had a huge impact and I think the much smaller population is the main reason Japan had less sales than the others regions.

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HuusAsking

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#19 HuusAsking
Member since 2006 • 15270 Posts
I don't think that's likely. In terms of population we are looking at 127 million in Japan, 300 million in the US and 486 million in the EU and that's not the only PAL region. The economic downturn was not so big it would have had a huge impact and I think the much smaller population is the main reason Japan had less sales than the others regions.Idonomeus
THing is, out of those 127 million Japanese, a higher percentage of them are gamers. This helps them to make up for the population disadvantage.