The Game Awards shows how terrible games media is at judging narrative.

Because like many of the categories, the nominees for Best Narrative are downright bad, with some really obvious snubs of games critically acclaimed for its story, while nominating reaches and divisive stories. But what do you expect from clods who basically get things wrong every year, like awarding TLOU Part II so heavily while gamers picked apart the problems of that game and its story in an effective manner.

Elden Ring is a reach, plain and simple. It absolutely should not be nominated here. Plague Tale Requiem isn't even the best medieval story this year. Horizon Forbidden West was typical AAA sequel bait with a divisive story, and God of War Ragnarok is typical AAA Game Award bait, like Guardians of the Galaxy last year. Only IMMORTALITY should have been nominated here.

Syberia: the World Before absolutely should have been nominated, and it probably could be my winner here. So does NORCO and Pentiment, which I also believe could be the best. And critics really have been underrating Triangle Strategy's story. Citizen Sleeper also should have been taken a good look at.

Notice I am listening for the most part indies and adventure games, games that usually have the best storytelling?

Yet these gaming media cultural gatekeeping corporate clods simply ignore actual great stories and nominate and award only above average at best AAA titles that "check all the boxes" instead of transcending the medium. But what do expect from those who say, got Best Performance so terribly wrong last year that these awards should lose all credibility?

And really, game critics in general judge storytelling very poorly, and that is why your TLOU P2's, your Bioshock Infinite's, and your vanilla Persona 5's get praised, when they wilt heavily under real scrutiny......while stories like Tell Me Why get underpraised like the critics rushed through it without seeing what these stories do right.

Opinions.

Can this be said about anything about the mainstream (actually the lamestream or fake news) media? That is why very few people trust it anymore.

Yup. Move the F on.

@texasgoldrush: you made some good points. TLOU2 is a joke, same with elden ring.

Games media are such a contradiction.

They want to peach about "social justice" when they shrill for or get to close to abusive game companies who crunch or harass their employees, or actually get mindlessly ignorant about racial issues like Beltway limousine liberals tend to do.

Meh. I voted for Elden Ring myself. I’m fine with that. 🤷‍♂️

Democracy dies in darkness

Elden Ring is my GOTY, but it is nowhere near a remotely good narrative nominee.

@texasgoldrush: good to at least hear you say good things about Norco as I have been eying playing that since it dropped on Game Pass

@texasgoldrush: oh yes, a fucking picture book game choose your own adventure game is really pushing the medium lmao

Imagine getting this butthurt that a mainstream excuse to advertise didn't acknowledge your indie game. lol.

Nobody gives a shit about your low budget PC trash.

@texasgoldrush: I wasn't even planning to watch this trash Sony shilling awards ceremony. But steam giving away decks to watch this turd?? Heck yeah...I'll just put it on mute in the background and pray for my deck.

Cheezus the show is 2.5 hours. I guess I need to make sure my computer doesn't go to sleep.

There you go having a meltdown again. TLOU2 is better than anything Xbox has released this gen or last. More awards as well. Sorry you didn't enjoy it but the rest of us will live.

Lol some karen is butthurt again

Elden ring is not a traditional narrative that is for certain, but there is a narrative there not only in item descriptions etc. but in the world itself, there is a story of the golden order, the story of the cursed omen, the cult of the royal perfumers, the Carian Royals, the Mages of the Academy, I could go on. There is actually a fairly deep and interconnected narrative throughout the game but in fairness the game does not present it in a simple traditional manner so I can see why some people believe there is no narrative, that said I do not think it's fair to completely disregard what Elden ring does from a narrative perspective.

There's definitely some odd picks but that's a given at any award. More so if we're talking about a mainstream award show where the creator and host performs live fellatios to industry icons. No reason to stress about it.

Elden Ring for best narrative is no doubt an odd pick and I would like to read the award's justification for it. It's not so much the presence of some titles that upsets me but the absence of titles like Pentiment or Citizen Sleeper that I find difficult justify.

Fake news, fake reviews, fake awards... They can all go Fake off!!! :P

What'd you expect? You gonna listen to these jokers asserting which games are good during a glorified ad?

NORCO was good.

Opinions, dude. I loved TLOU 2. Plenty people did.

And plenty of people hated it. It will go down as a very divisive game in gaming history.

Its nowhere near the reception the first game got.

If game journalism had any real standards in story telling, or understanding of what makes a good story. The overwhelming majority of games would be panned for their stories.

As a nordic person. It is clear NO ONE at Santa Monica has any real understanding of Norse Mythology. God of War 2018, completely missed the narrative tones and underlying things that makes the Norse Sagas work. It is a modern Hollywood film wearing the skin of Norse Mythology for aesthetics. Because none of the prose, themes or general style was there.

I dunno if this was an artistic choice or purely rooted in ignorance and intellectual laziness by Santa Monica. Because it is a real shame. Because several of the creatures could have added a LOT to the actual story Santa Monica were trying to tell. Nokkens particularly could have worked much better with the Kratos. Rather than being a generic taunt enemy.

Game Awards is catered to the mainstream, not to your average gamer.

@texasgoldrush: I like it when people still believe The Game Awards is a legit awards show. It's not thing more than a 2 hour commercial. When airing the actualawards takes a back seat to showing new CGI trailers of upcoming games, it can't be taken seriously as an "awards" show anymore.

TLOU2 had a fantastic narrative. It didn't reach the heights of the first, but I loved that game.

I somewhat agree. The Game Awards and game critics are clueless about writing and storytelling. Every year, they award mediocre AAA game stories, while ignoring adventure games, visual novels and indie games with much better storytelling.

With that said, Elden Ring does have a strong narrative co-written by George RR Martin and Hidetaka Miyazaki. But FromSoftware presents it in an indirect way, rather than a direct way.

Posters often have pointed to George RR Martin's involvement in Elden Ring's story as a marker of its quality.

If Game of Thrones' writer is being cited as a high standard of writing, then really everything else presented is ok, because Game of Thrones is basically an anime/video game story. Yes, it even is with it's nods to significant battles in human history (really neat details in the show). Animes and video games do that as well. Doesn't mean I'm going to personally exalt their writing to the high heavens in all cases, but I will give credit where its due. These games are written well.

Quite extraordinary claims you're making here, which you definitely cannot back up. I think you should calm down and shelve the hate drums for Sony Santa-Monica and take a more reasonable standpoint, even if you disagree with the writing.

Yeah, most "fantastic" storytelling we see are just cheap knock-offs from better novels and TV series. There are games out there that do tell original stories and make use of actual gaming medium to tell a story. But they often get ignored.

I think Atlus is the only developer that did a good job among AAA devs. particularly understanding mythologies of around the world. Actually intergrating the origins of the Abrahamic religions from its Canaanite origins into the plot. As someone who is swedish, it is quite disappointing to see so many games try to implement Norse Mythology into the games, yet completely fail to understand even the basics.

There is NOTHING extraordinary about that claim. I haven't seen a single person in the nordic countries who was under the impression God Of War displayed any level of understanding of Norse Mythology and Sagas. Ranging from prose, themes, tone, to how creatures such as Trolls and Elves are portrayed.

They can take the aesthetics, but the games narrative came across as a 21st century Hollywood take on trying to understand millenia old mythology. This isnt anything new either, as Greeks found Santa Monica's attempts at their epics, and myths to be just as bafflingly missing the point.

When they do Egypt. I just hope they hire someone from the region to help them write, or someone who is an expert on Egyptian mythology. Their takes on both Norse and Greek mythology were pretty embarassing.

So, you can demonstrate that no one at Santa Monica has an understanding of Norse Mythology?

@X_CAPCOM_X: Well, Game of Thrones has always reminded me of Berserk. So that does make GoT feel somewhat like a live-action anime to me.

As far as Elden Ring goes, GRRM has said his role in the storytelling was limited. It's mainly a Hidetaka Miyazaki story, which means it has more in common with Dark Souls than Game of Thrones. But because it's presented in unique interactive ways, it deserves recognition for its unique style of storytelling.

In general, the overall quality of video game storytelling has gone up over the last 25 years. To the point where movies and TV shows are increasingly influenced by video games and anime. But OP's point is that there are better examples of video game storytelling than the usual AAA stuff that The Game Awards nominate. Generally, adventure games, visual novels and indies tend to have better narratives than the AAA games that get nominated.

Not unless I was willing to send a quiz to everyone at Santa Monica about Norse Mythology.

But if you look at the actual product that came out, and the fact that they tried to advertise this as an Authentic Norse experience. Which is hilariously not the case.

God of War had one of the worst attempts at Norse Mythology I have seen.

But yes, if you want to go there, my take that EVERYONE at Santa Monica being ignorant of Norse Mythology being hyperbolic, that would be accurate. But the point is, to point out just how the end product demonstrated a very dismal understanding of what was actually passed down.

Does anyone really watch the game awards for the actual awards.

@Maroxad: Yeah, AAA games tend to ape Hollywood most of the time. Their stories aren't original, but have been done better by Hollywood before. Whereas original stories from smaller studios tend to get ignored in these award shows.

What Atlus games do you mean, BTW? You mean Shin Megami Tensei?

I think a lot of the modern world's understanding of Norse mythology comes from Tolkien. He borrowed quite a bit from Norse mythology, but changed it to suit his own fantasy world. And now much of the world confuses Tolkien with authentic Norse mythology. But as someone from Scandinavia, you'd naturally be more familiar with the authentic Norse mythology. Do they teach that stuff in Swedish history classes?

Yup, Shin Megami Tensei and its spinoffs. It isnt the best out there, but it has some of the better takes.

For sure, Tolkien took Norse Mythology, adapted it to fit his world. But now, everyone is taking Tolkien's takes and thinking this is somehow authentic Norse Mythology.

As for authentic norse mythology, we were taught it in both swedish (literature) class and in history class. We also experience it daily to some extent, just living here. As we still have a strong cultural connection to our Norse past. I remember Age of Mythology handling Norse Mythology really badly, so I never played as the Norsemen because of that.

Good comparison. I would actually hold Berserk in a higher regard than GoT though. I know that would draw fire from people over here in the USA, but I stand my ground and defend it!

GRRM apparently wrote a book/chronology of the events surrounding the Elden Ring story an Miyazaki and the team at From Software took liberties with it, sending him designs and dialogue lines occasionally. He apparently had no idea what they were actually making until it was finished, which is a hilarious reminder of how old he is.

I do agree that storytelling in video games has improved generally, still keeping in mind some great stories and the methods of how they were told that changed even film like Chrono Trigger and Metal Gear Solid 1 and 2. It's unfortunate that many lesser marketed titles aren't represented at the game awards; this would enable a much livelier debate about which stories released in a year are noteworthy rather than picking a few obvious ones. I agree with that point, but I also disagree with the claims that the well-marketed and popular series are unequivocally bad. It reeks of the sort of early 2010's hipsterism -- "oh you thought that popular thing was cool?"

So while I see the point that more games should be recognized, that certainly doesn't mean that the games shown should be immediately deemed undeserving of their praise.

Can someone clarify something for me. Is this particular award show done via player/viewer votes, or is there a panel of critics and experts that decide?

You're almost there. The next step is to stop basing your judgements upon statements you can't prove or demonstrate. Consider possibilities outside of your desired outcomes for any games, media, literature, etc. you consume. Only then will you be able to cease making these sorts of sweeping statements (that are quite popular on this forum, sad to say).

To the bolded, where was GoW "advertised as an authentic Norse experience?"

If you took obvious hyperbola literally, that is on you. The point remains, God of War's take on Norse Mythology was absolutely dismal.

As for where, it was said in at least one interview, can't be bothered looking it up right now though.

Not how it works. If you want to engage in any meaningful discussion, you contribute points to the discussion that can actually be discussed. Statements like the ones you made are impossible to engage in a discussion with other than in the manner I am. It's a waste of forum space and time, and it's also why people get moderated for trolling.

The onus is not on me to qualify your statements, it's on you. A lot of that stuff flies under the radar on this board -- mentioning that once again. It makes actual discussions difficult to hold here.

Back on topic, though.

Hyperbola to clarify certain points being made. Is a COMMON rhetorical practice. Especially on the internet.

Next time, don't take everything you read so literally. Respond to the general message, not cherrypick a line and take it out of context.

https://www.thoughtco.com/hyperbole-figure-of-speech-1690941

For once i'm agree with a thread made by you. Mainstream media is going to be mainstream media ... but oh well.

@Maroxad: Hyperbole is quite the opposite of clarity. Your point becomes less clear when you base it on such discount statements like the one you made.

And don't dig in ~ you simply made a judgement error and I'm pointing it out. You don't have to try to justify it.

Under no circumstances are you entitled to agreement from others, especially when you advance such outrageous positions as what you attempted. I was respectfully calling you out.

I find most reasonable people would disagree with your standpoint. You are of course entitled to your opinion, but you should be clearer about exactly you disagree with instead of substituting a thought out appraisal with hyperbole. Makes me think you're just buying into a hate train. Given this forum, that's entirely possible as well.

You clarify by highlighting a point... and the point, as was abundantly clear with the rest of the post... was that Santa Monica's implementation of Norse Mythology completely missed the mark.

But this conversation is over. I made a hyperbolic statement not meant to be taken literally, you did. What is done is done.

Maroxad EXTREMELY pissed the f off because yet again, a Sony exclusive is getting all the attention. No matter the game, if its a Sony title, and its not niche, he will be raging all over the forums. Imagine that lul.

There isn't a single other developer that has put more effort into the Norse Mythos that SM, and here he is, calling them being completely shit. 94 on meta🥴Your opinion is garbage. You should improve your opinions in the near future. Thank you for understanding.

I am basing this on what I played of 2018, as I didn't play Ragnarok.

Valheim for one, handled Norse Mythology way better.

What GoW is, is what I like to call Pop Norse Mythology. Which is to say, how Norse Mythos is usually portrayed in Pop Culture, rather than how it was historically passed down. A lot of these tropes are built on the adaptations made by Tolkien. Just look at how Trolls are handled for one.

Still... better than Age of Mythology...

And the reason I am being harsh is due to the wording in some interviews held by some of the developers. This is why I am so critical of both GoW and Age of Mythology.

Then you shouldn't be talking at all.

GoW2018 was a test run to see if the new formula is liked by the masses. What's in gow2018 is nothing compared to what's in Ragnarok. But lets keep telling ourselves that "from what i've seen, most people are negative about the game" bullshit you keep repeating. The game is more than appreciated by everyone. Time to get over it, and accept the fact that what Santa Monica has given us is something that the large majority of developers would never be even able to replicate. The only MASSIVE issue this game suffers from is the extremely handholding to the point of being beyond ridiculous. Its the worst i have seen or even heard of. Everything else is good, great, amazing or as good as it gets in the gaming industry. Time to move on🥱

That might have been a good point, if I was primarily talking about Ragnarok here, I wasn't. I was talking about 2018. If Ragnarok does a better job, that does not excuse 2018.

And in the gaming communities I visit, including this one. People are very negative towards Ragnarok. In fact, they are KIND to the game here compared to other communities I am a part of.