Botw and totk have a mobile game combat system with no builds or anything.
BotW combat system is not very fun, but made worse by how very little enemy variety there is. Enemy placement is very basic.
Combat might be more fun if Nintendo focused less on blocking/dodging altogether. This is not Nintendo's strong suit and recent 2D Metroid games proved that. If they instead had more variety where they focused on puzzle aspects of combat such as finding the weak spot and exploiting it with the right special item, they might be able to return to the level of enjoyment of combat in previous Zelda games.
They had things like skulltulas where you had to wait for them to flip around to attack them, or pea hats that can't be attacked when flying, etc. They completely ditched this for like 5 basic enemy types that are just pointless busy work that people prefer to avoid altogether.
There is this trial you can play that gives you a gauntlet of enemies to fight and that is just the worst idea they had for BotW.
Indeed. Piss poor combat system, zero enemies variety and laughable boss fights. Its as if Nintendo has too much trouble making anything that is combat related.
What I meant to say was that I like the art direction and don't think it looks ugly, even running on a potato. I wouldn't mind at all this same art direction maxing out a 4090. But I truly like how it looks running on the Switch.
Game sold 30 million copies and is considered greatest game ever made. Sorry TC, go back to your boring story games nobody buys.
While I don’t share the tc sentiment on the matter of Bot, if you’re referring to Ragnarok, then you might want to check your facts before you make a claim that “nobody buys it”.
BOTW was a solid game but I don't have the same excitement that some may have over the game. Definitely wouldn't place it in or remotely near the category of a bad game. Now if we are talking about the visuals, well that is another story.
@hardwenzen: Loo no. The expansion will just be more Elden Ring. Funnily enough, BOTW excels in a lot of the things Elden Ring is bad at and Elden Ring excels in a lot of the things BOTW is bad at.
That is why I think comparing them is ridicilous, they both set out to do different things. The only thing they got in common is that they have an open world in a fantasy setting.
To be fair, Miyazaki did say he was inspired by BOTW - and you can see where Elden Ring borrowed a lot of BOTW's level design.
Both games ditched the traditional sequential dungeon structure in favour of an open world with a handful of small boss-related dungeons and tons of mini shrines/catacombs. Both games allow you to travel whenever you like at the start, limited mainly by the difficulty of the enemies as you head towards the capital. There's even big towers in each region to track down.
The open worlds are used completely differently. BOTW has really detailed exploration and physics mechanics that load up the open world with brilliant emergent gameplay. Elden Ring doesn't really interact with its open world, and instead mainly uses it to make Dark Souls with a grander scope. But I can see where one game clearly influenced the other.
@hardwenzen: Loo no. The expansion will just be more Elden Ring. Funnily enough, BOTW excels in a lot of the things Elden Ring is bad at and Elden Ring excels in a lot of the things BOTW is bad at.
That is why I think comparing them is ridicilous, they both set out to do different things. The only thing they got in common is that they have an open world in a fantasy setting.
To be fair, Miyazaki did say he was inspired by BOTW - and you can see where Elden Ring borrowed a lot of BOTW's level design.
Both games ditched the traditional sequential dungeon structure in favour of an open world with a handful of small boss-related dungeons and tons of mini shrines/catacombs. Both games allow you to travel whenever you like at the start, limited mainly by the difficulty of the enemies as you head towards the capital. There's even big towers in each region to track down.
The open worlds are used completely differently. BOTW has really detailed exploration and physics mechanics that load up the open world with brilliant emergent gameplay. Elden Ring doesn't really interact with its open world, and instead mainly uses it to make Dark Souls with a grander scope. But I can see where one game clearly influenced the other.
What level design has he borrowed? He didn't borrow any level design. He borrowed the idea of a massive open world with no hand holding. The actual level design in the "important" areas of the game are on par with what we've been seeing in Souls games since Demon's Souls, which are far superior to anything you will see in a Zelda game.
BOTW is a very poor Witcher 3 / AC clone, but instead of actually being fun, the world is empty, the climbing is a poor implementation of the assassins creed climb mechanic, the weapons are mostly boring, with the master sword the only interesting weapon in the game, and the Gannon story is so overdone. If you’re not sick of Zelda, link, and Gannon in the same rehashed story after 35 years, you’re way too easy to please and are the reason companies release the same garbage year after year. Making it open world doesn’t make it any better, especially such a poorly done open world. Someone else said it best - if it didn’t have the Zelda nostalgia, it would be a 7/10 game, at best.
Game sold 30 million copies and is considered greatest game ever made. Sorry TC, go back to your boring story games nobody buys.
Took me 50 hours to beat it, and honestly, looking back I couldn't tell you anything regarding the game other than remembering running through an extremely empty open world with only 3 different types of enemies here and there. Oh, and caves that had puzzles with rocks that you had to hit into holes.
By "just as bad as BOTW", do you mean it will also score 97 on Metacritic and be one of the most highly regarded games of all time? Because yeah, I can see that.
BOTW has one of the best open worlds of any mainstream videogame, primarily because of the way the world and environment interacted with the highly detailed game mechanics. It did for open world games what Deus Ex did for shooters.
If this game gets rid of the 'boring bits' that some players didn't like, and expands on ways to interact with the environment, then I could see this being an even bigger hit.
BOTW is a very poor Witcher 3 / AC clone, but instead of actually being fun, the world is empty, the climbing is a poor implementation of the assassins creed climb mechanic, the weapons are mostly boring, with the master sword the only interesting weapon in the game, and the Gannon story is so overdone. If you’re not sick of Zelda, link, and Gannon in the same rehashed story after 35 years, you’re way too easy to please and are the reason companies release the same garbage year after year. Making it open world doesn’t make it any better, especially such a poorly done open world. Someone else said it best - if it didn’t have the Zelda nostalgia, it would be a 7/10 game, at best.
Did you even play Breath of the Wild?
Because it has even less in common with The Witcher 3 than it does with Elden Ring. BotW leans heavily on sandbox elements in its themepark. Witcher 3 is a themepark through and through.
@mysticaldonut: “If this non-existent thing (Breath of the Wild not being a Zelda Game) was this way, then people would view this non-existent thing like this (they would overlook the non-Zelda Breath of the Wild game).”
Seriously, there’s no way for you to know that. Plenty of new IPs get praise for pushing the boundaries like Breath of the Wild did. Heck, some people DISLIKE Breath of the Wild because it didn’t follow the OLD Zelda formula.
Is a smooth brain argument tbh. Like yeah, no shit branding does a lot for a games popularity. Goes for any well known series. Especially ones like Zelda that have earned consumer confidence for providing quality games over the years. Can apply this to plenty of other series.
BotW specifically though, game brought in waaaayyy more players than any Zelda before it. It's not even close. Not to say that's a measure of quality, not at all. Just that its appeal obviously reached far further than your core Zelda fan. This was millions of peoples first Zelda game. And apparently a lot of them loved it.
Personally, I've been on this series from the start, but certainly am not a fan of every game with the name Zelda slapped on it. Actually don't even like many of the games. The series had pretty much lost me until BotW came along. Didn't do three plays, hundreds of hrs each, just because it says Zelda on the tin lol.
@ConanTheStoner: Good point about the establishment of quality that this series has. We’re going on 40 years into the franchise, and most of the games are least good with a few absolute game-changers that completely re-shaped the industry. It’s not like Zelda is historically garbage, and that it has a cult following propping it up to remain relevant.
And Breath of the Wild was long-time-coming, deserved commercial breakthrough for the series. It’s not like it was selling like Madden NFL Football before Breath of the Wild.
@Maroxad: Player expression is a meaningless phrase. BOTW is a story driven game, which is why we have a sequel that continues the story. It just happens to be a boring Zelda.
That's like a two for one ScrubQuotes submission. 😂
Yeah man, player expression arises from depth in a game. It simply means a larger possibility space makes for more meaningful decision making in your play. Be it mechanically, system driven, character builds, what have you. Can even arise from the level design in various games/genres. Even the act of sequence breaking some games can file under that. All kinds of things can feed depth, the result being greater player expression.
Chess, Checkers, Tic Tac Toe. Each present more depth than the next. And wouldn't you know, the room for a player to develop their own playstyle works in the same order.
A sequel following a previous games story does not make it story driven. Are you going to say the Mario Galaxy games are story driven? The whole Ninja Gaiden series? The Bayonetta games? Streets of Rage? Sonic? Come on now. Providing contextual dressing in a logical sequence doesn't mean a games focal point is the story.
I love both games and they're both a million times better than Sony's entire catalogue.
Sony's output has been pitiful this gen.
Yet they were the Best publisher last year. Somehow disqualifying all games released on both the PS4/PS5/PC seems like a dumb rule.
That list is missing God of War Ragnarok, GT7, Returnal, Spider-Man MM, Horizon Forbidden West , Sackboy big adventure and TloU part 1.
13 games in a little over two years is hardly pitiful. The Playstation hate in this forum is pathetic and completely void of any objective criticism. Sorry but this is another shitty take.
Yet they were the Best publisher last year. Somehow disqualifying all games released on both the PS4/PS5/PC seems like a dumb rule.
That list is missing God of War Ragnarok, GT7, Returnal, Spider-Man MM, Horizon Forbidden West , Sackboy big adventure and TloU part 1.
13 games in a little over two years is hardly pitiful. The Playstation hate in this forum is pathetic and completely void of any objective criticism. Sorry but this is another shitty take.
Maroxad is incredibly jelly of Sony's success. No matter how good the games are, he just closes his eyes, plugs his ears, and screams "bad games bad games bad games". Very childish behavior, but if it helps him to cope with the reality, i say let him do what needs to be done.
@Maroxad: Player expression is a meaningless phrase. BOTW is a story driven game, which is why we have a sequel that continues the story. It just happens to be a boring Zelda.
Huh?
BotW was not a story driven game. Which is why it let you skip 95% of the story and head straight to ganon. This is not done by the means of glitches, but by design.
And player expression is not a meaningless phrase. It is arguably one of the best characteristics a game have have on the gameplay side. Player expression is arguably the greatest contributor to depth out there. It is what we get when we see 2 players in a fighting game, using the same character, both really viable, and yet both playing the same character in completely different ways. The opposite is basically execution.
And while I am at it, BotW did not ride on the coattails of previous Zeldas. Zeldas were in a massive decline prior to BotW. Skyward Sword Sold around 3 million copies. BotW has sold nearly 30 million. Prior to BotW the best selling Zelda was Twilight Princess at 9 million. Before that, only 5 games broke the 5 million copies sold barrier.
@silentchief said:
Yet they were the Best publisher last year. Somehow disqualifying all games released on both the PS4/PS5/PC seems like a dumb rule.
That list is missing God of War Ragnarok, GT7, Returnal, Spider-Man MM, Horizon Forbidden West , Sackboy big adventure and TloU part 1.
13 games in a little over two years is hardly pitiful. The Playstation hate in this forum is pathetic and completely void of any objective criticism. Sorry but this is another shitty take.
Umm... did you even read the image? It said PS5 only. Several of those games you listed are available on PC, as for the others, GoW:R, GT7 and HFW are also available on PS4. The fact of the matter is, the PS5 has very few things going for it. Outside of one game (Returnal), none of Sony's output has any interest me whatsoever.
And player expression is not a meaningless phrase.
This forums wild man. These are such basic things.
This reminds me though. One time this dude, I think it might have been Telekill, said to Champ -
"What's player expression? Some sort of liberal shit?" 😂
Might be the most unintentionally funny thing I've read on this board.
That line will forever live on in this board's infamy. Overtook the "What is a Zerg?" line as the crowing moment of silliness on this board. Especially since it was said with such smug confidence.
lol yeah. In fairness to Telekill, simply not knowing what it means, whatever right. Not some common term you'd ever hear outside of gaming. Just the way he asked was funny af.
Denying it as a concept though? Like at the most basic level you should be able to reason that certain games grant a player far more agency than others, in a variety of ways.
lol yeah. In fairness to Telekill, simply not knowing what it means, whatever right. Not some common term you'd ever hear outside of gaming. Just the way he asked was funny af.
Denying it as a concept though? Like at the most basic level you should be able to reason that certain games grant a player far more agency than others, in a variety of ways.
Yeah, had the random political bent been left at the door, someone would probably just have answered his question and everyone moved on.
But his dismissive attitude towards it. put it forever into infamy.
@Maroxad: Well, now I think I’ve seen everything on these forums. BOTW, a game that literally opens with a story, filled with cutscenes and side quests to further flesh out that story, isn’t a story-driven game because the open world is badly designed and allows you to skip some of it. It’s just a “player expressive”, whatever that means, game. 😂
Society thinks that's a bad take, but eventually they will catch up.
Yes, after the big cataclysm when video games are extint and someone finds an old DS with no other trace of previous titles ... that's when society will think that Phantom Hourglass is the best Zelda, at least until they find the superior Spirit Tracks.
Anyways ... despite this trollish atempt of a thread, i can see some people genuinely not liking BotW, but even if the gameplay was okish, it was the sandbox nature of the game that made it so appealing. Not to mention after 30 millions, it would be foolish not to following the same formula.
@Maroxad: Well, now I think I’ve seen everything on these forums. BOTW, a game that literally opens with a story, filled with cutscenes and side quests to further flesh out that story, isn’t a story-driven game because the open world is badly designed and allows you to skip some of it. It’s just a “player expressive”, whatever that means, game. 😂
Allowing players to skip most of the game is not bad design at all. Being allowed to progess how you want, rather than being railroaded by the devs is an integral part of a sandbox game. It is one of the reasons I see it as a sandbox/themepark hybrid, as opposed to the themeparks like Asscreed, Witcher 3 and Elden Ring.
BotW has around than 1.5 hours of cutscenes and storytelling. Having a barebones story doesnt make for a story-driven game. Story sets up the initial context, and it guides you to 5 locations (that they don't even have to visit). The rest is up to the player.
Umm... did you even read the image? It said PS5 only. Several of those games you listed are available on PC, as for the others, GoW:R, GT7 and HFW are also available on PS4. The fact of the matter is, the PS5 has very few things going for it. Outside of one game (Returnal), none of Sony's output has any interest me whatsoever.
Worst major publisher by far.
Of course I did. It's why i mentioned the fact it ignores everything they released on the PS4/PC . Regardless You are saying the best publisher in 2022 is the worst major publisher. This is about on par with most of your shitty takes 🤣🤣. It completely lacks any objective reasoning and is based purely on your unpopular taste. You said Sony's output is pitiful and that is factually wrong. 13 games in a little over two years is hardly pitiful, even if you only enjoy one of them.
Umm... did you even read the image? It said PS5 only. Several of those games you listed are available on PC, as for the others, GoW:R, GT7 and HFW are also available on PS4. The fact of the matter is, the PS5 has very few things going for it. Outside of one game (Returnal), none of Sony's output has any interest me whatsoever.
Worst major publisher by far.
Of course I did. It's why i mentioned the fact it ignores everything they released on the PS4/PC . Regardless You are saying the best publisher in 2022 is the worst major publisher. This is about on par with most of your shitty takes 🤣🤣. It completely lacks any objective reasoning and is based purely on your unpopular taste. You said Sony's output is pitiful and that is factually wrong. 13 games in a little over two years is hardly pitiful, even if you only enjoy one of them.
You said:
"That list is missing God of War Ragnarok, GT7,Returnal, Spider-Man MM, Horizon Forbidden West ,Sackboy big adventure and TloU part 1."
Those games arent missing. Those games exist on other platforms and thus would not be qualified.
And no, 13 games and only one is worth my time. Yeah that is pretty pitiful. Even Ubisoft still has things like Anno. And a Rayman once in a blue moon. In fact, since the PS4, only 2 Sony games either interest me or did anything for me. Those 2 being Bloodborne and Returnal.
Regarding the games Sony has released since 2021
2021
Destruction AllStars
Nioh Collection
MLB The Show 2021
Returnal
Ratchet and Clank
Ghosts of Tsushima Directors Cut
Death Stranding Directors Cut
2022
God of War: Ragnarök
Gran Turismo 7
Horizon Forbidden West
MLB The Show 22
The Last of Us Part 1
Uncharted: Legacy of Thieves Collection
2023
MLB The Show 23
Cutting out the ports and directors cuts. We have 9 games. Of these, 3 are Annual Sports games. And only one game in total interests me in the slightest. Nice...
@tjandmia said:
@Maroxad: Ok, so it has just as much story told in cutscenes as your average Hollywood movie, in addition to a sequel that continues that story. 👍
The cutscenes makes up about 3% of the total experience. Furthermore, the story does not determine the player's progression. Players are instead guided by their curiosity. Breath of the WIld has its flaws. But it is not a story driven game in the slightest.
As someone who dabbles in mmos, what you are doing is akin to saying EVE Online or Albion Online are bad because they are not like WoW or FF14.
Those games arent missing. Those games exist on other platforms and thus would not be qualified.
And no, 13 games and only one is worth my time. Yeah that is pretty pitiful. Even Ubisoft still has things like Anno. And a Rayman once in a blue moon. In fact, since the PS4, only 2 Sony games either interest me or did anything for me. Those 2 being Bloodborne and Returnal.
Regarding the games Sony has released since 2021
But you said Sony had shitty output. Does Sony not making them exclusive to the PS5 somehow disqualify the fact they still released those games? I'm also counting the end of 2020 since that's when the gen started.
The only thing pitiful is your shitty taste in games. Most the games they listed are 85+ on metacritic. Ubisoft hasn't touched anything that comes close to God of War Ragnarok, Horizon Forbidden West and Ratchet and Clank. Sony produces more games with better scores than any publisher last year. It's why they were listed as the best publisher in 2022. You may hate their games and that's fine but it doesn't change the fact they have been a top 3 publisher in both output and quality 3 years in a row.
Those games arent missing. Those games exist on other platforms and thus would not be qualified.
And no, 13 games and only one is worth my time. Yeah that is pretty pitiful. Even Ubisoft still has things like Anno. And a Rayman once in a blue moon. In fact, since the PS4, only 2 Sony games either interest me or did anything for me. Those 2 being Bloodborne and Returnal.
Regarding the games Sony has released since 2021
But you said Sony had shitty output. Does Sony not making them exclusive to the PS5 somehow disqualify the fact they still released those games? I'm also counting the end of 2020 since that's when the gen started.
The only thing pitiful is your shitty taste in games. Most the games they listed are 85+ on metacritic. Ubisoft hasn't touched anything that comes close to God of War Ragnarok, Horizon Forbidden West and Ratchet and Clank. Sony produces more games with better scores than any publisher last year. It's why they were listed as the best publisher in 2022. You may hate their games and that's fine but it doesn't change the fact they have been a top 3 publisher in both output and quality 3 years in a row.
9 games means nothing if only 1 of those games interest me. 2 since the release of the PS4: Bloodborne and Returnal. That is 2 games in nearly 10 years... utterly pathetic. And your metric is hilariously bad. A high average metacritic score, means little. What matters is how many good games they put out.
You mention 3 games that were forgotten instantly. And while it is old, Rayman Legends > God of War Ragnarok, Ratchet & Clank and Forgotten West combined. Same goes for Anno. You couldnt pay me to play any of the 3 games you mentioned.
Either way, this is getting off-topic, so to try to bring it back to the topic somewhat.
BotW was so cool, it manages to maintain relevancy better than modern games. Games maintaining relevance is a far more compelling metric to me than metacritic scores. BotW did not only score high on metacritic (which is a pretty whatever), but it also maintained a high user interest.
And because Hardwenzen is most likely desperate for some kind of win. I will say this.
Elden Ring is a very well made game, personal disappointments with the game aside. As a themepark game, it was truly exceptional and became a phenomenon. However, an expansion pack will likely not generate nearly as much hype as a sequel 6 years in the making.
Of course, regardless of how popular it was. It doesnt change the fact that playing it was an absolute miserable time. So bad that I just asked Steam to delete the game off my library once I was finished. No refund, just wanted that game off my library.
Either way, I am glad Elden Ring exists. Games that emphasize gameplay over storytelling and wasting your time with B movie plots are games that should be commended at every opportunity. Be it Elden Ring or Breath of the Wild.
I have plenty of gripes about BotW, but honestly I ended up really enjoying it when I accepted it as a departure from the traditional Zelda Metroidvania-esque formula.
The only other game since that has given me the same level of satisfaction in just exploring the world is Elden Ring.
I guess BotW is not for everyone, but to my surprise it sure seems to be for me.
Those games arent missing. Those games exist on other platforms and thus would not be qualified.
And no, 13 games and only one is worth my time. Yeah that is pretty pitiful. Even Ubisoft still has things like Anno. And a Rayman once in a blue moon. In fact, since the PS4, only 2 Sony games either interest me or did anything for me. Those 2 being Bloodborne and Returnal.
Regarding the games Sony has released since 2021
But you said Sony had shitty output. Does Sony not making them exclusive to the PS5 somehow disqualify the fact they still released those games? I'm also counting the end of 2020 since that's when the gen started.
The only thing pitiful is your shitty taste in games. Most the games they listed are 85+ on metacritic. Ubisoft hasn't touched anything that comes close to God of War Ragnarok, Horizon Forbidden West and Ratchet and Clank. Sony produces more games with better scores than any publisher last year. It's why they were listed as the best publisher in 2022. You may hate their games and that's fine but it doesn't change the fact they have been a top 3 publisher in both output and quality 3 years in a row.
9 games means nothing if only 1 of those games interest me. As far as I am concerned, Sony could have only released 1 game in since the release of the PS5. 2 since the release of the PS4: Bloodborne and Returnal. That is 2 games in nearly 10 years... utterly pathetic.
And your metric is hilariously bad. A high average metacritic score, means little. What matters is how many good games they put out.
You mention 3 games that were forgotten instantly. And while it is old, Rayman Legends > God of War Ragnarok, Ratchet & Clank and Forgotten West combined. Same goes for Anno. You couldnt pay me to play any of the 3 games you mentioned.
Either way, this is getting off-topic, so to try to bring it back to the topic somewhat.
Ragnarök was so uninteresting barely anyone cared past a few weeks. Couldnt even keep up with a 5 (now 6) year old game.
Games maintaining relevance is a far more compelling metric to me than metacritic scores. BotW did not only score high on metacritic (which is a pretty whatever), but it also maintained a high user interest.
It means nothing to you and your irrelevant opinion. The fact Is their output has been impressive by all standards.
It's not " My metric" it's the metric of metacritic. They were the best publisher in 2022. High metacritic scores mean " good games". 85+ on metacritic is considered a good game
Raymen Legends isn't better than any of those. That's a matter of an opinion but regardless it came out 10 years ago. Sorry you have a shitty taste in games and criticize things you never played.
By that standard Fortnite and GTAV are the best games of all time 🤣.
It means nothing to you and your irrelevant opinion. The fact Is their output has been impressive by all standards.
It's not " My metric" it's the metric of metacritic. They were the best publisher in 2022. High metacritic scores mean " good games". 85+ on metacritic is considered a good game
Raymen Legends isn't better than any of those. That's a matter of an opinion but regardless it came out 10 years ago. Sorry you have a shitty taste in games and criticize things you never played.
By that standard Fortnite and GTAV are the best games of all time 🤣.
And yet, both me, and the person I responded to both vehemently dislike Sony First Party. Sorry that our opinions hurts your fragile feelings. So much so, you go in here to randomly insult people who express their dislike for Sony First Party.
The metric you are using is dumb, for a myriad reasons.
I had a longer response but I deleted most of it to try to bring this topic back to TotK and BotW. The fact that you got so upset and derailed this thread over some anti-Sony snark... grow up.
It means nothing to you and your irrelevant opinion. The fact Is their output has been impressive by all standards.
It's not " My metric" it's the metric of metacritic. They were the best publisher in 2022. High metacritic scores mean " good games". 85+ on metacritic is considered a good game
Raymen Legends isn't better than any of those. That's a matter of an opinion but regardless it came out 10 years ago. Sorry you have a shitty taste in games and criticize things you never played.
By that standard Fortnite and GTAV are the best games of all time 🤣.
And yet, both me, and the person I responded to both vehemently dislike Sony First Party. Sorry that our opinions hurts your fragile feelings. So much so, you go in here to randomly insult people who express their dislike for Sony First Party.
The metric you are using is dumb, for a myriad reasons.
I had a longer response but I deleted most of it to try to bring this topic back to TotK and BotW. The fact that you got so upset and derailed this thread over some anti-Sony snark... grow up.
That's fine, I could not care less about your opinion but to say the gaming industry's top publisher has shitty output is simply a bad take.
It's the metric the industry uses , you can call it dumb all you want but it just makes you sound like a delusional fanboy.
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