Surprise Addition to Xbox Series RDNA 2?

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Pedro

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#1 Pedro  Online
Member since 2002 • 45162 Posts

I literally have no idea what the following is

At the very beginning of development of the Xbox Series X | S, we knew we were setting the foundation for the next decade of gaming innovation and performance across console, PC and cloud. To deliver on this vision we wanted to leverage the full capabilities of RDNA 2 in hardware from day one. Through close collaboration and partnership between Xbox and AMD, not only have we delivered on this promise, we have gone even further introducing additional next-generation innovation such as hardware accelerated Machine Learning capabilities for better NPC intelligence, more lifelike animation, and improved visual quality via techniques such as ML powered super resolution. Link

While I have had the privilege of knowing everything about the Series X|S months before the reveal 😛, this is one thing that I have no idea what the hell MS is talking about.

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sakaiXx

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#2 sakaiXx
Member since 2013 • 10030 Posts

@Pedro: You should have warned them about the super weak Series S if you has info Pedro. Poor day 1 buyers thinking its only resolution reduction/

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Pedro

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#3 Pedro  Online
Member since 2002 • 45162 Posts

@sakaixx said:

@Pedro: You should have warned them about the super weak Series S if you has info Pedro. Poor day 1 buyers thinking its only resolution reduction/

Ask your historian buddy to find my comments on the S before they announced it. Also, the Series S specs have been disclosed for months. Try not to derail the topic.

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Zero_epyon

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#4 Zero_epyon
Member since 2004 • 15905 Posts

Microsoft pushing Secret Sauce now?

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BlackShirt20

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#5 BlackShirt20
Member since 2005 • 2451 Posts

@Pedro: I believe that is AMD/DirectX 12 Ultimate version of DLSS?

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rzxv04

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#6 rzxv04
Member since 2018 • 2100 Posts

Should highlight MACHINE LEARNING SUPER RESOLUTION

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Ghost_of_Phobos

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#7 Ghost_of_Phobos
Member since 2020 • 815 Posts

It's DirectML right?

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Bluestars

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#8 Bluestars
Member since 2019 • 2061 Posts

RNDA 2.5

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ellos

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#9  Edited By ellos
Member since 2015 • 2474 Posts

Could be great for Series S I don't know. The issue is they have shown nothing but the expected bc integration. Honestly MS needs to show next gen content that takes advantage of full RDNA2 sauce there pushing.

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SecretPolice

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#10 SecretPolice
Member since 2007 • 37288 Posts

:P

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Pedro

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#11 Pedro  Online
Member since 2002 • 45162 Posts

@ellos: Exactly. This feature is or has been practically non existent in all demonstrations of the system.

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tormentos

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#12  Edited By tormentos
Member since 2003 • 33587 Posts

@Zero_epyon said:

Microsoft pushing Secret Sauce now?

And pedro acting as if he didn't know, the whole hardware accelerated machine learning is nothing more than using rapid path math it was already confirmed by DF.

This is why people need to take what MS say with a grain of salt, while it is hardware accelerated yeah it does so by using the GPU own juice.

DirectML – Xbox Series X and Xbox Series S support Machine Learning for games with DirectML, a component of DirectX. DirectML leverages unprecedented hardware performance in a console, with Xbox Series X benefiting from over 24 TFLOPS of 16-bit float performance and over 97 TOPS (trillion operations per second) of 4-bit integer performance on Xbox Series X. Machine Learning can improve a wide range of areas, such as making NPCs much smarter, providing vastly more lifelike animation, and greatly improving visual quality.

https://news.xbox.com/en-us/2020/03/16/xbox-series-x-glossary/

In fact this is very misleading, because you can't simply make a game on xbox and use all the GPU resources for machine learning, its clear what MS is doing with PR here some blind fanboy only understand the word TF and see nothing more, so i am sure many would be the lemmings falling for the whole 97TF crap and spewing it as it was real.

The PS5 can do ML as well, but i don't think to the same granularity of the series X the PS5 does support rapid path math, it need to the PS4 Pro was the first console to support it, so its need it for BC.

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#13 Ghost_of_Phobos
Member since 2020 • 815 Posts

@tormentos: So this means the XSX advantage will be even greater than expected? Impressive stuff!

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tormentos

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#14 tormentos
Member since 2003 • 33587 Posts

@ghost_of_phobos said:

@tormentos: So this means the XSX advantage will be even greater than expected? Impressive stuff!

If i have to point at it i would say the series X would have better machine learning, but then again is based on the own GPU resources, so 20% power you divert for machine learning is 20% you loss for resolution, frames or visuals.

Everything has a cost.

Alto if it works like DLSS (which i doubt do to Nvidia true hardware for it) it would give the series X a nice jump based on the fact that it could run a game on lower resolution while having more frames and not losing image quality.

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Pedro

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#15 Pedro  Online
Member since 2002 • 45162 Posts

No one talks about this features because it has hardly been discussed but the Sony fannies leader is claiming that folks are falling for the hype. While you were on your damage control spew you missed this comment. 😎

"This feature is or has been practically non existent in all demonstrations of the system."

Please share how ML works for the PS5 and Series X.

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sts106mat

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#16 sts106mat
Member since 2005 • 25117 Posts

not a clue but sounds good to me

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Ibacai

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#17 Ibacai
Member since 2006 • 14044 Posts

Sounds like marketing secret sauce but that could easily be ignorance. Hopefully we see some cool applications of this and it furthers the Xbox capabilities.

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tormentos

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#18 tormentos
Member since 2003 • 33587 Posts

@Pedro:

You riding the secret sauce is a thing of beauty and making seen like you don't know is even better.

Time to bookmark.

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Mesome713

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#19 Mesome713
Member since 2019 • 203 Posts

PS5 was rushed and is already feeling outdated. Was smart of Microsoft to wait on the tech.

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regnaston

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#20 regnaston  Online
Member since 2008 • 1754 Posts

pretty sad when certain users have to "bookmark" things .. shows how petty they can be LOL

I am sure on his desktop there is a file folder labeled "Tormy's System War Pwnage resources" ... sad sad sad life

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HalcyonScarlet

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#21 HalcyonScarlet
Member since 2011 • 9127 Posts

"Xbox Series X|S are the only next-generation consoles with full hardware support for all the RDNA 2 capabilities AMD showcased today."

"In our quest to put gamers and developers first we chose to wait for the most advanced technology from our partners at AMD before finalizing our architecture."

"We are extremely proud of the results gamers will see at launch from titles... but we are even more excited by how developers will be able to take further advantage of these next-generation innovations in the future"

VERY interesting statements. I like the last one, because everyone is trying SO HARD to use freaking launch titles as measurements of the consoles performance as if we don't go through this every single gen.

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Pedro

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#22  Edited By Pedro  Online
Member since 2002 • 45162 Posts

@tormentos: Oh! Poor thing. You and your companion think this is secret sauce. 😂🤣

@HalcyonScarlet: I am more interesting in the implementation of their ML. Its their least talk about feature.

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#23 GirlUSoCrazy
Member since 2015 • 10590 Posts

@mesome713: Sony was using reconstruction on the PS4 Pro to provide higher resolutions and they have been filing patents on the tech, I doubt they just dropped it and said they don't want it on the PS5.

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#24 HalcyonScarlet
Member since 2011 • 9127 Posts
@tormentos said:

@Pedro:

You riding the secret sauce is a thing of beauty and making seen like you don't know is even better.

Time to bookmark.

What you said raises a bunch of questions.

I mean, is it secret sauce? Machine learning has been part of Nvidia cards for a while now with RTX. Doesn't DLSS stand for Deep Learning Super Sampling? Is that not the point of Tensor cores? Wouldn't AMD have come up with something of a comparative nature with which they can compete with?

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#25 osan0
Member since 2004 • 16030 Posts

@HalcyonScarlet said:
@tormentos said:

@Pedro:

You riding the secret sauce is a thing of beauty and making seen like you don't know is even better.

Time to bookmark.

What you said raises a bunch of questions.

I mean, is it secret sauce? Machine learning has been part of Nvidia cards for a while now with RTX. Doesn't DLSS stand for Deep Learning Super Sampling? Is that not the point of Tensor cores? Wouldn't AMD have come up with something of a comparative nature with which they can compete with?

the million dollar question. rarely is there only one solution to a problem.

A lot of very big companies are now looking at it (Sony, MS, possibly samsung and AMD themselves of course) since they will be relying on RDNA in some form. if they can find an effective alternative for image reconstruction that gives similar benefits to DLSS without using or relying on tensor cores (Or some sort of specialised hardware) then that would be a big win.

as for the ML stuff in general.....it looks like marketing fluff but i would love to be proven wrong. I would love to see devs try to use the GPU for other things in a game instead of just putting something pretty on the screen.