Sorry tormentos, PS5 lost the GPU wars

The PS5 being weaker is definitely wrecking you all Sony fannies. Keep damage controlling, maybe Sony will overclock the GPU again to reach 12 TFLOPS. LMAO

@Pedro: I kind of wish they would so they quit crying. It’s getting pathetic.

@Sagemode87: I'm just repeating what Tom Warren from The Verge and others have said... don't blame me because you don't like the fact that XsX is more powerful :)

@BlackShirt20: Oh noes how dare I make rational argument using logic+facts on a game/system discussion forums, what will world ever do lol.

I mean as someone who owns multiple devices such as a

-Workstation/HTPC (Ryzen 9 3950X,128GB DDR4,X470-Taichi,RX-5700XT-Nitro+, BDXL Drive, 10GBE SFP+ NIC, 2* 256GB NVME SSD, 1 TB SDD, 74 TB of HDD for games/anime/movies, etc) which doubles as a Supercharged Xbox ,

-PS4Pro (w/ 2TB SSD),

-PS3 Superslim (w/ 512 GB SSD),

-Freenas/Plex Server (Ryzen 7 3700X,X570-Pro4, 64GB DDR4, 2* 240GB nvme SSD,8*8 TB HDD in RaidZ1,10GBe SFP+ NIC) ,

-Seedbox (i5-4570,16GB DDR3, 120GB SSD, 2 * 2 TB 7200 RPM HDD in Raid0),

-Pfsense Router (2200G,32GB DDR4,B450 ITX, 240GB SSD, X550-T2 10 Gbe NIC)

all on an 10Gbe SFP+ on a home lan connection I have a good laugh of having to join the XSX.

@tormentos:

On PS5 clock speed issue,

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2020-playstation-5-specs-and-tech-that-deliver-sonys-next-gen-vision

Mark Cerny freely admits that CPU and GPU won't always be running at 3.5GHz and 2.23GHz respectively.

"When that worst case game arrives, it will run at a lower clock speed. But not too much lower, to reduce power by 10 per cent it only takes a couple of percent reduction in frequency, so I'd expect any downclocking to be pretty minor," he explains. "All things considered, the change to a variable frequency approach will show significant gains for PlayStation gamers."

Cerny is revealing the non-linear power curve for RDNA 2.

For PS5, Sony didn't budget for TDP with max clock speeds for both CPU and GPU since Sony assumes CPU wouldn't be fully max'ed e.g. do you need max CPU usage for a single-player story that doubles as an interactive movie?

Do you need AVX2's gather instructions for CPU software 3D rendering? There's 896 GFLOPS FP32 from the CPU.

Microsoft budgeted XSX's TDP like a gaming PC i.e. max everything e.g. heavy CPU large scale RTS game with max GPU usage.

LOL.

@hrt_rulz01: Warren expertise doesn't deal with EE/CS related matters (such as Computer Architecture) he is at best an IT journalist from the Verge (the Verge PC build anybody), he's about as knowledgeable as a games journalist when it comes to these topics.

See the problem is your math skills.

These new GPU’s are far more efficient this generation. The power difference is about 2 standard PS4’s or even a PS4 Pro because of the RDNA 2.0 technology.

This is what i quote from you.

You claimed the difference was 2 PS4 or a Pro which which is even more than 2 PS4.

To that be correct a 3TF RNDA2 most match or beat an xbox one X not a 4.5TF one.

That will never happen because the PS5 is RDNA2 as well not Polaris.

The gap is 17% and when games come out will have to change accounts again blackace.🤣

What can we spect from people who believe that MS magic cloud would make the xbox one more powerful than the PS4.🤷‍♂️

Something to think about with RTX 2070 at 2150 Mhz (36 CU equivalent, 9.9 TFLOPS)

RDNA 2 is effectively AMD's Turing RTX.

RDNA 1 is effectively AMD's Turing GTX.

NVIDIA hasn't been pushing Turing's clock speed to its limit.

Trash setup...lol.

@tormentos: Get ready. Because Xbox Series X will take full advantage of RDNA 2.0 and will likely have better ray tracing. Even DF said it was a little concerning Cerny didn’t mention one of the most efficient and most important feature of RDNA 2.0 VRS. Just saying little buddy, Xbox Series X is a future proof system especially when you consider it will have XCloud play anywhere.

I mean, you can mock the power of the mighty cloud. But even Sony needs the power of Microsoft’s cloud technology to support PS5 multiplayer. MS has so much more technology it’s not even funny at this point.

@dagubot: Ahh I see the salt....

@BlackShirt20: lol Cerny not mentioning VRS in PS5 because it's a baseline feature in RDNA2, is like saying the PS5's CPU is not Zen2 cuz he didn't bother to mention SMT, the lack of logic gives me a good laugh.

@Uruz7laevatein: 100% faster is bullshit. The main difference was 900p vs 1080p. A 44% difference.

Twice the frame rate in Tomb Raider is because it’s locked at 30 with vsync. Not because it can’t go higher on Xbox.

@Uruz7laevatein: Well, He certainly took to discussing ray tracing. And even less important features such as “geometry engine”. Literally every GPU tech he discussed is in the Xbox Series X. But he left out a few vital RDNA 2.0 features. Such as VRS like I said which is nearly as important as ray tracing. Plus no machine learning. So again, I question if it’s full RDNA 2.0 or just a custom GPU based off RDNA 2.0 tech.

@BlackShirt20: The thing is VRS is literally a stock feature of RDNA2 that helps provide the perf/watt it's just not really neither a unique feature that's exclusive a PS5/XSX feature, much like Machine Learning (which refers to the usage of multi FP/INT 16/8/4 instructions on the RDNA2 CUs to accelerate ML algorithms as boolean (if/else) statements don't need standard FP32 instruction to provide memory saving in both bandwidth and amount) and "Ray-tracing" is also a stock feature of RDNA2. It's just that certain features being mentioned are more of a priority in time/budget(unique PS5 features which Cerny refers to as "Custom", whereas "standard/full" Zen2/RDNA2 features are referred to as "New" compared to previous Gen consoles). The only reason for MS to state baseline Zen2/RDNA2 features on XSX features to highlight the upgrade/improvements from XBO/X1X to XSX(such as RT/ML/VRS despite being stock RDNA2 features).

@Uruz7laevatein: Lol, whatever you have to tell yourself to make you feel better about the XsX being more powerful :)

@Juub1990: 44% difference is on the low/conservative end with developers being a little "nice" to provide some "parity" to not leave the XBO of the multi-plat too far "behind" the PS4 version despite XBO being the "target" platform to optimize for (#PS4NoParity) . It doesn't make much sense to lock the FPS to 30 if it can hit 60, but only to mitigate FPS fluctuation at under 60 FPS due to pipeline stalls in the XBO APU.

@hrt_rulz01: Ahh I see, me stating facts is too much, that one provide a proper rebuttal LOL.

So not all of them top 100 will be playable. Pretty sure they took less of a look at the other less popular games. Be it 2% or 5% it still sucks lol, specially 0% PS1/2/3.

@Uruz7laevatein: Which cow alt are you???

Watch it again, please, at 35:27 here:

First, he talked about "power consumption" it can drop by 10% effecting either by 1-2% only in performance, and that in rare situations, with literally doing the opposite gaining 1-2% on either:

From

https://www.neogaf.com/threads/12-15-10-28-1-87-teraflops-difference-between-the-xsx-and-ps5-52-cus-vs-36-cus.1532085/post-257449875

Ps5 just looks like a compromise to me. Theres BC of sorts, but the compromise is that so far only 2.5% of ps4 games are working on ps5. No ps3 or previous outside of psnow confirmed.

Theres amazing sound with a dedicated chip, but they dont know how to implement it.

Theres a blazing fast ssd, but it's nearly 20% smaller than on the last console and we dont know if 3rd party games will support it.

You can use 3rd party drives to expand storage, but they are supposed to come in the future.

Many ps4 games will likely be remastered for ps5, but you will have to pay for them again.

The only positive I can see is that it has to be cheap, but given the cost of the unique ssd and sound chip I'm not sure that Sony can release under 499.

@Uruz7laevatein: It can’t hit 60 and it’s vsync and locked to 30. It can go higher than 60. Also please, you literally can’t find a single game where the PS4 performa twice as well. It’s a 900 vs 1080p thing. Don’t care about your conspiracy theories.

Twice as fast my ass. PS4 can't even maintain its 60fps target and dips to the 30's. Xbox One is at a flawless 30. Quit lying.

When did you become a Pro Sony media Ron.

@sealionact:

https://blog.us.playstation.com/2020/03/18/unveiling-new-details-of-playstation-5-hardware-technical-specs/

Lastly, we’re excited to confirm that the backwards compatibility features are working well. We recently took a look at the top 100 PS4 titles as ranked by play time, and we’re expecting almost all of them to be playable at launch on PS5. With more than 4000 games published on PS4, we will continue the testing process and expand backwards compatibility coverage over time.

Give Sony QA team the time to play +4000 games on PS5 :P

:P

@ronvalencia: I know Ron, that "almost all of the top 100" figure is where the roughly 2.5% figure came from.

Point is, we know all x1 games will run on xsx, we also know not all ps4 games will run on ps5.

@hrt_rulz01: believe developers more than a journalist. Have fun playing Crackdown 4 next gen. MS games suck 🤣

@SecretPolice: can't blame you guys for wilding out. This gen scarred you guys. The Stockholm is strong with Lems though considering MS keeps putting out garbage games.

@tormentos: You mean the same cloud that forced Sony to shuffle over to Redmond and ask to be a part of?

@Sagemode87:

:P

@Pedro:

Bah you are trying to hard.

Bullshit now we know Github was right all alone those early test show the PS5 running at 2.0ghz in innitial tets INNITIAL test,so sony was aiming for high speed all alone,the cooling solution they have on that machine most be incredible and more efficient than the series X.

How many AMD GPU on PC or console come with 2.23ghz speed name them please,stop talking out of your ass just to make the xbox look better you look pathetic the xbox is more powerful no need to invent crap.

CPU load is not based on the game been offline or online,and the PS5 wasn't manufarcture with just first party developers in mind in fact you can watch the damn conference sony talked to a hell of allot of developers,while sony can have single player games that doesn't mean other 3rd parties will,also sony has offload allot of shit from the CPU to things like DMA from decompression to audio,and considering that this CPU is 8 cores 16 thread Ryzen i don't know how the PS5 would have problems with anything the CPU in this machines run circles around the crap we had last gen,on top of that console have always been super efficient with theri CPU.

MS wanted a more powerful machine and payed for it,but if if there is something i have learn over the years is that a 36CU GPU will not cost the same as a 52CU one,one of this machines will be more expensive.

By the way the speed will be 2.23ghz most of the time,with drops when load demand for it,the frequency drop will be minimal.

By the way sony single player game >>>>> MS multiplayer..

Is sad when a game that double as a movie get better sales and score than halo.lol

Sure it will it has more power.🤷‍♂️

Yes and he didn't mention hardware based ray tracing when he announce the PS5 before the series X was even reveal,didn't stop you people from assuming there was no HBRT.

Na Sony could have gone google or amazon,but this is business,MS was cheaper,just like MS pick sony image sensors for its products it means nothing.

See you on launch for the generational leap the series X will have over the PS5 what was it 1 PS4 Pro? 😂

720p vs 1080p is 100%+.

It may not be the norm but it was there,look at doom by the way the xbox one drops to 828P while the PS4 stay almost always in 1080p,worse frame drops to the 40's on xbox one while also been 828p while the PS4 also stick to 60FPS almost always so please quantify me that gap.

The only time in doom were the xbox one was close was when nothing was happening.

By the way several games not only were 1080p vs 900p as advantage but also were a few frames faster or having better effects which also increase than 44% lead to over 50%.

The PS4 had a 40% lead in power,and most games showed that just by been 1080p on PS4 and 900p on xbox,many games showed an even bigger gap.

He remind me when lemmings use to also claim the PS4 didn't have tile resources,simply because it didn't say so,but in reality that was the name MS gave to hardware based partialy resident textures on xbox one which is why it didn't appear by name on the PS4 side,because on the PS4 side it was PRT on MS side it was tile resources..😂

I remember the lemmings making a parade about it and how it would close the gap in power..lol

I don't know what video are you watching but the PS4 there for most of that video has a 20+ gap in frame vs the xbox one,in fact the xbox one drops below 30 even lock,it drops as low as 26FPS the gap is variable but when nothing is happening or things are not hot the PS4 does have a 60FPS vs 30FPS lead and you can see it on that video,many times is not 60 but is 56,50 or 58

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2014-metal-gear-solid-ground-zeroes-face-off

1080p on PS4 with dynamic skies.

720p on xbox one no dynamic skies.

Please the gap here is 100%+ sustained,sure is not the norm but it did happen.

The same happen on the witcher after it was fix the PS4 had faster frame + 1080p vs 900p,in fact it was say the xbox one had dynamic resolution,but digital foundry test found that the only time the xbox one was 1080p was on the damn menu,on game all the footage they analize was 900p.

Oh they were not force,Google has a cloud so does amazon,or they simply could keep using what they were using,but using a cloud for playing online is not the same as using a cloud to stream power to an underpower console.

So you have no point what so ever,MS claimed the cloud would increase the xbox one power,it basically put a developer in from of people to LIE about DX12 gains and falsely claim it would double the xbox one performance which promted a bunch of post from developer making fun of MS for that shit.

I don't see sony here going as low as MS did,sony downplayed the Tflops games,but they have a point when it comes to AMD hardware it scale better with speed than with more CU proven with Vega 56 which OC can beat vega 64 even that it has less CU and less Flops,now no one is saying this will be the case here,but you didn't see sony claim they have a magical api that would double performance or a magic cloud.

Nor make endless articles with DF to spread lies about secret sauce that on the end failed to materialize they downplay the gap in games and on launch payed for it.

@tormentos:

The real bullshit comes from you.

PS5's variable clock speed = Sony didn't budget for max clock speed for both CPU and GPU. Hint: Sony goes for a lower-cost approach.

@tormentos:

Within 5GB memory storage, PS4's GPU TMU already operates at optimal fetch rates from GDDR5 fool.

For optimal TMU fetch rate for XBO GPU, a tiled resource is a requirement to feed texture data from DDR3 to 32 ESRAM ahead of actual TMU consumption.

PS4 has less need for tile resource workaround when compared XBO due to a larger GDDR5 memory pool.

You're a fuk!ng idiot.

@tormentos: Its a brave attempt Tormy, but no...Sony went straight to ms for a reason cap in hand, and you cant seriously mean that Sony could have kept what they had...its woefully inadequate.

The "Power of the cloud" in terms of gameplay couldn't take off because people moaned about always online and drm issues (Where are we with that now?) which meant 3rd party devs were never going to be able to take advantage of processing via the cloud, but that didnt stop things like cloud saves - which unlike Sony, xbox offers without an online subscription - improved local server access for mp, services like gamepass and xcloud as well as our digital library.

@tormentos: Because the X1 version is obviously capped to 30fps.

I called bullshit on the 100% gap claim. The norm is in the range of 40-60%, not 50-100%.

I thought VRS was a DX12U feature?

The xbox one version DROPS below 30,if uncapped it would have reach higher but also way LOWER so yeah it would probably had drop to the low 20's.

But you can clearly see the gap is there.

On Doom and many other games there were combined gaps of resolution,effects or extra frames.

Yes i agree the gap mostly was from 40 to 60%.

Dont really care which console has the slight edge. My question is will both of these new systems be able to play Star Citizen?

I don't see why not and I don't see why they want to.

OK.

WTF does that first bold part has to do with ANYTHING I SAY ON THAT POST.

2-That isn't my point you walking pancake,my point is simple MS called PRT tiled resources they changed the name of the damn feature in order to make it look like something else,i remember here how many claimed the PS4 didn't have tile resources when in reality it did it was call PRT,and try pass it as something that would increse the xbox power.

This is the reason why you quote me some lemmings clowns try to pass Tile Resources as something that would transform the xbox into a beast or change anything.

You try to imply that Tile resources would work better on xbox one because it has 2 memory pools,when in reality it was a GCN feature on AMD GPU which only have 1 memory pool not 2.

I call you for it.

So tell me Rondementia how was Tile resources on xbox better how did it change anything?

The few games that use the feature were superior on PS4.

AMD has also announced that RDNA2 GPUs would feature VRS (Variable Rate Shading) & hardware-accelerated ray tracing.

Apparently it is.

@Pedro: just wondering since I'd rather not have to upgrade my pc. Hopefully one day they will port Star Citizen to PS5 or XsX.

@uitravioience: In theory the overall Architecture of the PS5 would be very ideal for a very large massive open world game like Star Citizen (i.e PS5's Kraken along with it's 16GB GDDR6 uUMA is ideal from the asset streaming of Star Citizen, with it's high RDNA2 clocks aside from Zen2 being a beast as it is)

Which one will have the better games? F your specs. In the end they mean nothing and you thirsty fan hoes know it. I will give it a few years and see where we are. Also, 1st gen hardware is the worst to buy. we all know that.

@uitravioience: Xbox One and PS4 could run Star Citizen. It’s not a question of if they can port the game to the upcoming Console, but rather, would they even want to?

Star Citizen is also a glorified tech demo. The developers have basically cashed in.