Sony's Shawn Layden states a true next generation (PS5) will happen - Won't continue iterative approach w/ PS4 - PS4Pro

Mixed with statements addressed as fact. That's the way it came off but I get what you're saying and why.

@kingtito: I didn't want to open the can of worms called "MS says one thing and does another." I'm still salty over that Crackdown non-reveal. So, I premised my argument around MS being genuine in its assertion that they want to go iterative.

I understand, I'm just saying that even if they went that route there isn't anything that would stop them from creating their next console to be just as powerful as a PS5. We'll find out in time.

yea PS5 will happen...just not until 2020 & later... :P

That's actually a little disappointing. The iterative approach kind of forces backwards compatibility on the consoles.

Few years is very vague wording and also, inaccurate. X1 is in its 4th year and still receiving full software support. There's no indication it's going to stop receiving that support within the next 3-4 years. It seems likely its mainline software support lifespan will at least match that of the approximately 8 year software lifespan of the 360.

Last gen is generally acknowledged as not only the longest console gen, but also that it was bad for evolution of gaming tech that it lasted so long without specs ever improving. MS is creating a new console releasing framework where your giving the consumer a little more than 4-6 years to upgrade to a new console so they can keep playing new AAAs for longer, your not forcing people to reset to 0 on their software library, and your not making devs start from square 1 with a new architecture. Things like UWP, continued backwards compatibility, and iterative console releases bring new specs within 3-4 years for those that want better visuals and performance, then 5-8 years after a base console release (X1) you can phase out mainline software support for the older machine, make the higher spec console your lower spec base console, then release a new, higher spec console.

It seems perfectly logical and economical to me. Seems a lot better than your library becoming obsolete, useless, and locked down to abandoned consoles, and having to wait for devs to get used to a totally new console design to develop for, with years of waiting before they can optimize and fully take advantage of the hardware.

The 360 existing and getting GTA 5 and Shadow Of Mordor developed for it didn't hold back the X1/PS4/PC versions. The current gen versions are visually higher fidelity and more robust, better game playing experiences.

Don't be mad just cause Sony half assed the Pro and about 3 years max is all the AAAs they can probably get out of it. MS built a machine in the X1X with actual longevity. Backwards compatibility going back 2 gens+forward compatibility through till the next Xbox, they're setting a standard that will only make Sony look bad if they don't follow suit.

This guy. Yeah, forward compatibility holds devs back just like PC GPUs that came out in 2014 are holding current GPUs back from getting more out of the same games. Except...it doesn't work that way at all and they're not.

Playstation users will have to leave the gen cause the Pro was half assed and Sony was already counting those PS5 profits when they put the machine together. You mean the power limitations of the Pro.

Wait, so now backward compatibility matters, and is important for Playstation? You were one of the people making fools of themselves in the X1 BC thread laughing to yourself at the erroneously posted usage statistic which were debunked later in that thread. Except you and the usual Xbox hating children were too stupid to keep reading the thread to read that part and kept shit posting as if the information was never invalidated, which it was.

Here's more hypocritical, backtracking, flip flopping Sony fanboy logic for Gordon Freeman to add to your web of lies and contradiction. When Xbox offers something free and consumer friendly its useless, desperation, and irrelevant. And it's okay for Playstation to re-release remaster after remaster, and charge for PSnow no matter what you already bought and own, and to give BC with early PS3 then take it away, but it's IMPORTANT PS5 has BC! That's freaking priceless.

Didn't you get the Sony exec memo? Who'd want to play those old PS4 games anyway?! They so ugly!

Market leader indeed.

The way Xbox has been KILLING it, making all the right moves and improving the platform, don't give a **** if they trail in sales for the next 10 years. Value is value, I'm not a stockholder and don't care how many others buy what I buy.

If X1X has mobile ZEN and physics/AI simulation modeling was designed for quad core/8 threads ZEN with working 256 bit AVX v2 per CPU core, it would not fit on XBO's 7 core Jaguar at 1.75 Ghz.

Each ZEN CPU has 4 port 128 bit SSE. 2 ports with 128bit FMAC (both FADD and FMUL) and 2 port with 128bit FADD. The two ports combines to form 256 bit AVX. ZEN can execute 1 AVX with FMA3 and 1 AVX FADD. Intel Haswell can execute 2 AVX with FMA3.

AVX v2 introduces GPU style gather instructions that can populate it's 256 bit registers.

Each Jaguar CPU has 2 port 128 bit SSE. 1 ports with 128bit FADD and 1 port with 128bit FMUL. 256 bit AVX v1 on Jaguar is for forward compatibility with desktop CPUs, but they are 2 cycle throughput.

ZEN v2 is allocated for 7 nm process node and it's improvements are unknown, except it follows Intel's AVX road map.

Microsoft already engaged the desktop PC market with "full fat" Intel Skylake CPUs and selling NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1080 GPU cards.

@NeonicTrash: You're a delusional clown. XboneX is trash and will be forgotten in 2 years when more powerful hardware releases. MS doesn't get to decide where the market is going, they are getting outsold and destroyed by both nintendo and MS. XboneX is a lame ass excuse for a nextgen console, a failed attempt to reset because they are getting pounded by PS4 this gen. Gamers will go to where the games are once PS5 releases.

The gen belongs to Sony, all you lems can do is cry and wait for it to be over. Forward compatibility is bullshit and you just gonna have to deal with it. ? Be prepared to buy another Xbox in a another 2 years after blowing $500 on the new Xflop.

X1X dev kit already has 24 GB memory storage and MS is already placing the ground work for the next Xbox. Mainstream 7 nm ZEN and NAVI 11 hasn't arrived.

Historically, MS spends on larger silicon budgets when compared to Sony's record.

@FastRobby:

Why do people even care about backwards compatibility? Did you buy a ps4 to play ps3 games? Or an Xbox One to play Xbox 360 games? People buy new consoles to play new games! No newer console will ever play old games as well as the original, that's why we keep the old consoles.

@FastRobby: PS4 doesn't have bc and it's absolutely dominating, not sure why that would change if the series thing happened with the PS5. You trolls really need to give it a rest.

@vfighter: it's not dominating because it doesn't have BC. In case of the One BC came to late to turn the tides. If Sony and Microsoft would release a new console at the same time, I'm sure that BC will play a role in marketing and how the media will perceive it.

I find it really weird that some people here are saying BC is a bad thing for gaming. When it has so much value.

@killered3: Personally it's useful for me if I ever want to visit earlier games I haven't played or wish to play again while not wanting to keep two consoles plugged in. It's convenient and it also opens up your library that little bit more.

I'd rather iterative consoles. I don't care what "hardcore" gamers young enough to be my kids want I.e. : long generations.

I want new consoles like the pro and x1 when hardware advances allow. The choice is with the consumer to upgrade or not.

I don't care about the BC argument. It's as stupid as the Forza/GT ones because it's about as high up on a list of reasons to own a console as a damn racing game is.

If it's there good if not I won't notice.

Looks like Sony is running scared. I don't blame them. They keep dropping the ball, and now they dropped all their balls, lol.

I hope it's not coming soon, beating XboneX in power isn't worth it. Keep the games coming.

As long as its fully backwards compatible its fine.

But if they use the "its next gen, so no you need to rebuy the games again" I call utter bullshit.

Pretty much while XB2 owners get Xbox, XB360 and XB1 games for FREE with Enhancements.

The Cows Love getting Milked by their Over Lord Sony anyway.

I could see Sony releasing a 20 TF PS5 around 2021.

I agree but I think there is 0 chance of PS5 not being backward compatible, it's just too much of a risk to not have it vs having it.

The PS4 didn't have BC because of functionality difficulties of PS3s exotic cell processor and it wasn't worth the financial hit to production. ]

With X86 arch that is no longer an issue and I'm sure Sony is smart enough to realize that the knowledge of gamers knowing that they keep their library moving forward from the PS4 to PS5 is a bigger sales push than a sales strategy leaving BC out and lose potential buyers who would have upgraded otherwise from the huge pool of current PS4 owners.

At the very least I expect the digital PSN library to completely compatible to PS5 if the physical disks are not and that works for me since most of my titles are bought through PSN.

My only question about BC would be if they could somehow "also" add PS3 games thru brute force of a more powerful system.

I think it's funny for anyone to even entertain the idea that PS5 wont have PS4 game compatibility, it's too much money for Sony to loose by not having it. They made PS4 Pro just to make PS4's generation last longer, there is no way they'd just that off all that work just to release a new system and have to start from 0 lol.

It's funny when you really think about it.

The problem that the PS4 Pro, and especially the XBX has created for Sony is cost.

The PS5 will be expected to be a generational step ahead of the current consoles when it's released. That is literally impossible to do in the next 2-3 years without it costing a fortune at launch. Sony's either going to have to take a big loss per unit, or charge over $600 for the PS5.

I wouldn't expect the PS5 anytime soon.

Bc on PS5?? Not something I care, just have some nice exclusives ready for launch and that will be nice.

@Desmonic: I believe PS5 Will have bc with all PS4 games. Hardware wise i'm sure it would not be a problem, and it would be very stupid to give up of the massive library PS4 already has.

@Shewgenja: so you are suggesting that Sony will actually go backwards and gimp themselves. If they go for something different and power and it's not x86 they will almost certainly loose the ability to have BC. So PS5 would be starting from scratch, getting the install base, MS would be sitting there as the console install base leader, as well as being able to release a console that is more powerful than X1X down the road and making X1X the low end system and having "whatever" be the better strong system rivaling PS5. Sony would be pretty dumb or ballsy to pull that move.

Very smart post which kind of highlights what I said. Sony would have to be suicidal to not have BC in PS5.

No BC in PS5 would be the biggest self-ownage move since MS attempted to market a No used games, DRM focused, online-only console to gamers at $500.

There is higher of a chance of a PS5 NOT happening at all than for PS5 to not have BC with PS4.

As always, greatness awaits.

@lexxluger: @xxyetixx: Guys, they have PSNow. They will always leverage that. Where were you when the 600/500 dollar ps3 had infinite backwards compatibility to two of the largest gaming libraries the world had ever seen?

You're both grandstanding on a feature that has never demonstrated value in the console gaming market. Even if all 30 million of you stamp the bleachers, you won't drown out the sound of facts. It would seem your memory capacity for what does and doesn't work begins and ends with 2014. And you don't even have full BC yourselves while demanding it from Sony? Gtfo with the bush league shit.

Good I'm glad I didn't buy a pro then

Both of those statements are kind of funny knowing the AAA line up of games Sony has produced on PS4 so far this year and E3 confirming it will have an even bigger stack of AAA titles releasing in 2018.

Why do people still care about BC?

lol, do you know me?

I bought the PS3 fat FYI and think it's the best playstation console ever with one of the primary reasons being it's full BC support out of the box. The cut down BC-less PS3 was never even a consideration for me.

I gave sony a Pass on BC with PS4 ONLY because we all know of the functionality issues it would have had with going forward with a better design and more so to speak to the larger gaming community, Xbox's BC was an after-thought and neither PS4 nor X1 had BC out of the box so there was really no better options for gamers coming into this gen if they wanted an HD console.

Your argument has a bunch of failed logic.

1. This isn't he beginning of the gen when neither system had options for BC
2. PSNow is a service, a PAID service, which has absolutely no attachment to any specific device and therefore no advantage to PS5 concerning a person who has a current library of PS4 games.
3. Value in the market is determined by demand and something that was not valuable in the market at one time can change at another.

How much do you think 1080p TVs are going to run you now that 4k sets have flooded the market? Just wondering would you pay the same for a 4k as a 1080? Probably not.

Remember when Nintendo and Sony offered free online and only MS charged? Yeah those were the days huh?

Stop living in the past and realize that competition drives the market and if something is pushed hard enough (like 4k which no one care about 2 years ago) it can create demand.

because companies have the ability to make it happen?

@lexxluger: I'd rather not have a future tethered to the past. If PS5 has "Super Cell" that's easier to code for in an APU format that has stacked GDDR6 on-die with a relevant GPU from NVidia, I could reasonably expect there to be problems running PS4 games but also watch MS and Nintendo shit kittens waiting for standard X86 apu design to catch up in any meaningful way in terms of performance.

Xxyte postulated that such a thing would be regressive of Sony to do. Do you?

@Shewgenja: I'm not even grandstanding on BC, if PS5 went the direction of experimenting and doing something different to be more powerful i.e. The cell 2 or something. Not only do they lose BC but they start all over again. Zero install base, devs starting from scratch to makes games for it, while also making the same games for PS4/Pro and X1X. Sony would be forfeiting the market share to MS, as much as the cows seem to enjoy saying "console sales leader", "largest install base" they would be handing that over to MS if MS continues this forward compatible mini PC route. That guarantees 3rd party deals for MS, that guarantees games being made for the console with the largest install base being made there first.

As for your where was I for PS3, I was out at $600 and taking a year longer to drop over the 360. I was waiting patiently and anticipating its release, then the announcement happened and I snagged a 360.

BC made it easier for me to pull the trigger on a Wii and WiiU all my kids games just worked. BC is just good, even if "no one uses it" or "rarely uses it". It's just there if you want it, a safety net if you will. It's doesn't matter if this console doesn't launch with a game your excited about cause you can still play "this game you love". And people might or might not, then they will move on playing all the new releases and may or may not ever use it again to revisit something. It's a better feature to have and not use, than to want it and have to pay for it or not get it at all.

Good. This mid-gen upgrades are a stupid idea. Gamers arent like phone users. Gamers buy new consoles to play games they cant in a previous generation, not to play the same games but with a better performance. For that, gamers would stick with PC gaming

Yes I do.

It would be the most idiotic thing Sony could do to sabotage themselves from a consumer market standpoint and if by some chance they actually do through with NOT including BC in PS5 I'll laugh my ass off at the arrogance and balls of Sony and Never touch a PS5 until 4 or 5 years down and only used as to not give Sony any profits.

To make my view point clear. NEITHER PS4 nor X1 had BC as an option coming into this gen basically setting BOTH Sony and MS at 0 when starting this generation. It's not the same situation 'now' however.

Sony intended to extend PS4's life span by launching the PS4 Pro because of how amazing they'd done with the market saturation and POWER that comes from being the market leader. If Sony launched a new console WITHOUT BC they loose...ALL of that and have to start from 0 all over again, this also would effectively make MS the market leader over Sony in one fell swoop.

lol it would be hilariously disastrous for them with all the work they've do so far to secure PS4 as the market leader, but I honestly think there is 0% chance of this happening because I'm sure Sony understands this fact well enough by the mere existence of PS4 Pro.

@Vatusus: lolwut. I buy new consoles/PCs to play all my games. In a digital age where you can have libraries that cover many years, my new product better work with other shit I bought through their online store.

EDIT: The mid-gen cycle provides choice, something console gamers don't typically have.

That's my main point.

My biggest gripe with Sony and PS4 this gen is that stuff I bought on PSN (which should be a unified network) for PS3 doesn't translate over to PS4.

They had the excuse of the PS3's exotic hardware to serve as a way out of not having people play content they bought on their store this gen but that isn't going to work anymore going forward.

They absolutely have no way out of not making games which were bought through their network to not compatible to any hardware going forward, it would be suicide.

Mid gen upgrades are awesome as long as all my games transfer. I would argue we have had mid gen upgrades for quite a while with Slim's and redesigns. This time however we actually got more powerful tech.

I will also LOL if Sony comes out with a PS5 that is not BC like they did with the 4.

When this gen started, I never ever care about the lack of BC at all. When I buy a new console, I expect to play new games for that console, not the past games and if I wanted to go play my old games, my PC can do that for me or just unboxed my console to play that exclusive old game if I need to.

I couldn't careless if PS5 has BC, I just want to play something new and that's it.

@Shewgenja: come One now you've even said it your self to put down Xbox One X, power isn't everything. If Sony does what you said and makes a totally different architecture they will fall behind and MS and PC will move forward.

There doesn't seem to be any reward on Sony's end if they go this route only risk. I think MS's goal is to continue this forward compatible PC like route while phasing out the lowest model and replacing it with a higher spec'd console i.e. Xbox One S and Xbox One X 4 years from now Xbox One S gone Xbox One X becomes lowest and Xbox "whatever" becomes high end. So MS would already have the advantage of an existing user base, add that with PC that uses the same architecture and the push MS is having for play anywhere and Xbox becoming a PC machine, Sony will be regressing, and would be an inconvenience to Devs and publish

@lexxluger: I really don't understand that absolute hate they are trying to give BC. In this day and age of digital purchases it's an even better feature.

My ready to install list grows all the time and every now and again something will pop up that I completely forgot about or didn't give any proper amount of time to it.

Anyone of these people jumping through the hurdles to dismiss BC is mind boggling. It's free, you don't have to use, you don't have to like it. I mean is it really called BC anymore, if MS is trying to break the generation mold and make everything work forward and back. What do they call a 10 year old game on PC, what's Crysis just an old game right, it's not a BC title. Fucking idiots ?

We have digital games now. You cant just say 'hey we are ceasing production of your console and your digital purchases will end life when your console does'.

That just doesn't work any longer in a digital age.

Good for you. Others do like to play old games, hence the crazy amount of sales for remasters.

Pro is out now, so till December, you have nothing, as always.

yes we need powerful monsters consoles

@xxyetixx: Well, with risk comes opportunity. If Sony laps MSes "generationless" console with the PS5, you can bet your ass XBox will lose support. You can forget timed exclusives, marketing deals, and all that other malarky.

@APiranhaAteMyVa: the Microsoft model workd very well actually.

In the Mary phone model, there is FC, however the older model becomes EOL.

The same case will happen with OG Xbox One and One S. They'll become EOL after the next Xbox console, Xbox One X will become the low end

Can't believe Cows are against this but they have always been on the wrong side of most things.

Pay For Game Service (Live)

Backwards Compat

VR (Worst use of resources ever)

No console iterations

All digital consoles

what sony should do to win public favor:

Ps5 can read ps4 game disks

Ps5 need a powerful cpu not only gpu so it runs games at 60fps

No need for 4k hdr disk player for movies. (my opinion here is that xbox one x would have done better if used those resources in a better cpu.)

you cant run ps5 games on ps4 (so games wont be hold back by ps4)

lots of exclusives on day 1