Sony would be fools to follow through with MS strategy

In the whole "gens are dead" and constant upgrades. Like a poster in that Next Xbox thread said consoles are NOT like phones which have contracts.

More importantly Sony has been dominating the console space. THEY have the advantage. There is no reason for them to waste money with this. This is why I am glad Sony is milking out the PS4 until its dried out and theu come out with the PS5. IMO Sony will decide when the next gen truly starts. MS will look like fools when Sony doesn't follow through and its just them wasting money.

@blessedbyhorus: Is that the direction Microsoft are going?

I feel like the hardware revisions for Xbox One mirrored the PS4. They both had an enhanced version and slim version of the platforms on top of the regular release.

I dont believe, for even one second, that even Xbox leadership believes that bullshit. They have a brand that has lost over 50% of its mind share in the space of a generation. The rhetoric about a "generationless console" is just another in a long ass line of narratives spun forth to legitimize the Xbox One in the eyes of its fan base.

Ask any third party developer if they think they will code their games for a Jaguar in the year 2030 and dont get salty when they laugh in your face. Console hardware comes and it goes. If you want Generation 8 AI and physics til Kingdom Come, please take a seat on a hype train headed to infinite cloud power.

I don't understand where you are coming from...

Sony already embraced the midgen upgrade system. I think you can reasonably expect a new Sony system roughly every 3 years.

Moreover, "gens" are basically a fabricated concept at this point. The only thing that would make the PS5 feel more like a "real" generation change and not a continuous upgrade is if it lacks bc/fc. And if you are hoping for that to happen then you're no friend of mine... that would be a very anti-gamer thing to want

@jumpaction:

Phil and MS have claimed that the era of console gens are coming to an end. They see consoles being more like tablets/phones where you upgrade. Many ppl believe when the next console arrives that the Xbox One X will be the base model and the next Xbox the premium version. IMO thats just going to make shit more confusing.

@blessedbyhorus: "Sony is milking out the PS4"

Phony has it made with their low info fan base.... Cows sure do love a good milking....

Lol :P

@xantufrog:

If you're talking about the PS4 pro thats not even a large next gen leap in terms of performance. In most cases its still considered a PS4.

@blessedbyhorus: I wouldn't see it as confusing, personally. I guess it depends how that is packaged and marketed. Certainly, if consoles were modular in future, it would make it easier to upgrade your console without having to spend money on an entirely new system and box.

@blessedbyhorus: yes, that's the point. When Sony launches their new "generation" it's only words. The only leverage they have to make it feel more like a "real" generation change is to block bc/fc. If if they do that you definitely shouldn't be cheering. So we'd better hope it's just a more powerful x86 continuation of what they've got going on now.

PCs don't start a new generation when a new powerful gpu comes out. They just get more powerful. That's what we're seeing now with Xbox and PS, and I sure hope it stays. Because when the "generation" comes with an artificial games boundary WE are the ones who lose

Good points by those who disagree. But the next gen consoles can still have bc/fc.

@xantufrog: I totally agree with you. The more accessible game availability becomes, the better. In some circumstances, it is understandably not possible but when/if possible, it would be better to move away from iterative hardware.

Gens are more decided by base controller redesigns now than power ;P

Forwards Compatibility is a lie because physics, people. Please, quit putting PR on a higher pedestal than reason.

Bu bu but gens are dead according to MS. I love how they just make up their own standards when their products are doing shitty or under delivering. What ever happened to Scorpio VR connectivity?

Wrong

New generations are about the BASE console that games are developed for, THAT is what signifies new generations.

Not sure what you guys are talking about here.

A new generation will mean that exclusives will be built from the ground up to take advantage of the current and more advanced hardware. It has absolutely NOTHING to do with Backward compatibility, that is a completely separate matter all together.

QUESTION:

How would PS4's ability to play, say for instance, infamous 2 from PS3 change the fact that Infamous Secound Son would be still unplayable on PS3 since it was a ground up title developed specifically for PS4 hardware?

BTW:

Forward compatibility is counteractive to the entire idea of new generations. It's not a "block" silly, there are no new generations if the base hardware dose not change.

How do you define a gen?

Firstly you are trying to argue it would be foolish of Sony to leverage their existing 80 million install base and instead focus on around 5 million because the new hardware is just faster? Sony makes money of software. People need to get that through their heads. Traditional generational upgrades and exotic hardware is DEAD. You can't bring it back no matter how hard your try. People bitch about Xbox One X and Pro but "next gen" hardware CANNOT even maintain the upgrade from One to One X because there are NO 26TFLOPS GPU on the market and there isn't going to be on in 2 years. Secondly, what are you really expecting the next iteration of hardware to bring to the table besides better performance? Seriously, what? All the hype about TLOU2 and how awesome it looks and "plays" on current hardware and you expect a bigger jump with the next PS5 or Xbox whatever? Finally the notion that such a model would hold back gaming is utter garbage especially when consoles have demonstrated that despite not having the power of a 1080Ti and i7 CPU you have absolutely amazing looking games being played across platforms.

Gens as you know is dead. There is no getting around this reality. Consoles are nothing but custom PCs, time to accept them for what they are.

It might have BC only. FC is some goofy talk MS made up.

Right. So there won't be a new "generation" unless they prevent forward compatibility.

@Pedro:

Not sure how ANY of this addresses what I posted? And read the OP again, Sony will wait until the PS4 sales become stale/dry and then release a new console.

Its only MS that is doing/saying this so not sure what you're talking about? And before you bring up the Pro it wasn't even suppose to be a TRUE upgrade but something that can handle VR and 4k. Question did you purchase an Xbox One X? Because you sound like many who have.

Edit:

PC's aren't a closed market like consoles and ao comparing them to consoles is moot.

@Ant_17:

Now that I think of it agreed. It just goofy PR talk by MS to ease the pain of those who purchased an X1X. BC will be the max they can do.

Why do you think someone who bought a X1X is in pain?

You are trying to argue Sony would not be following MS plans. If they are not following MS plans which is to release a newer console within the next three years then you are trying to say they will be launch a console later. That is not true because even Sony conceded that its the end of life for the PS4. The next PS system is not going to have a 4.6x performance advantage over the existing hardware (which is what the One to One X leap is). So, if you are looking for a "generational" leap in hardware it not going to be greater than the mid gen leap. If you are expecting Sony to lock games to the newer system despite it being just a refresh like the Pro, not only would it be a dumb move but a stupid thing to suppport.

Whether PC's are closed market or not, does not change the fact that PCs and consoles are constraint by the same hardware because they run on the same hardware and run the same software.

It maybe the actual reverse. These folks are scared of the inevitable change in console gaming,MS and Ubisoft are calling it for what it is.

But you are thinking they would make another PS4 type console, For all we know they could make a Switch type console.

Oh but they won't.

M$ was never a trend setter, it's going to ultimately fail.

If they make a Switch like console it would just be PS4 portable which equates to all the games that runs on the PS4 should be fully functional on this portable version. And all the games that are being made for this portable system can run on the PS4 console. So, even in this scenario the idea of abandoning 80 million gamers for a system that is equally capable as the current gen just to sell new hardware would make absolutely no sense for Sony and developers (Nintendo being the exception for now).

What is going to fail?

@Pedro:

1. MS and Ubisoft doesn't know anything. NO ONE can predict the market. MS tried to with motion controls and it bit them.

2. I never said Sony HAS to follow them but they DONT HAVE to. Why the heck would Sony waste money on another console mid gen when their current one is selling at a fast rate? My whole point is that its a waste of money. This whole thing is ludacris for the likea of Sony.

Also when did Sony state the statements you posted.

3. You have to look at it from a deeper view point. Just because they hace similar hardware doesn't mean much. Again there different. Again PC is an OPEN market where being able to play a game depends on what hardware you have. Upgrading your rig once a few years isn't as expensive as upgrading a console every 3 years. There a reason PC gaming once you got your build completed is cheaper than console gaming. More importantly devs BUILD AROUND the consoles while PC gamers have tk BUILD for whatever game the dev has coming out.

@boycie: M$, Just like they always did

@boycie:

If this whole "gens are dead" thing fails then those owners would have wasted their money.

So you don't really know then and you just posting twaddle as usual.

How are you defining a generation though. Do you really think that the next set of consoles are going to have some mystical unheard of technology that will be anything other than just a bit better than the last consoles?

Whether the next playstation is called the PS5 or PS Experts or whatever it's still just going to be off the shelf X86 components.

1. You know less

2. Sony has publicly indicated that the PS4 is dialing down. They also don't have a choice in the matter for their next system because they are constrained (like everyone else) by the advancement in hardware. You are going to get a mid gen console for the PS5 whether you like it or not. And its not even going to be 4.6x GPU performance of current mid gen upgrades.

3. None of that changes the fact that consoles are running on the same architecture and hardware as PCs. Open or close markets doesn't change that fact. It is also the reason why so many console games are now on PCs because the hardware are practically the same.

Well, actually, it's kind of ironic you say that since really, Phony, with the PS4 followed what MS did with 360. And poor MS made a horrible error when they followed what Sony did last gen with BS3 and created Xbox One. It's been one weird gen IMO. lol :P

Who and how would they have "wasted" their money?

Your PS3 and PS4 have a hard-drive built in because MS set the trend for internal storage. Your Playstation network is no longer free because MS set the trend with gamers paying for it. Your PS4 has built in voice chat because MS set the trend. Your PS3 and PS4 had Ethernet as standard because MS set the trend. Lets not pretend that MS offered nothing to gaming. There is a limit to how blinded anyone should be when it comes to brand loyalty.

Who knows what they make. We are all guessing here.

And Phil has just said for the Scarlet he just want frames and resolution and faster loading.

https://www.gamespot.com/articles/e3-2018-phil-spencer-on-why-microsoft-announced-a-/1100-6459831/

Its not all guessing. We aren't hitting that double performance every 6 months and haven't been for years. Hardware performance increases has been conservative but stable. The 1080 Ti clocks in about 11TFLOPS and has been the dominant card for almost a year. The next iteration of video cards would not be clocking double performance because we haven't done such a feat in years. The overall plateauing of hardware may seem as a bad thing but its actually good. Less need to upgrade and longer life for systems whether it be PC or consoles.

Agreed. Some people act as if the X1X was a new gen console with no launch line up. I bought both mid gen upgrades DAY ONE and the Pro had no such line up either. MS simply did what Sony did.

MS is working on the next Xbox. Sony is working on the next PS. I don't see what the TC is even commenting on at this point.

Again, you are guessing.Things change quick now.

Overwatch looked like it was going to be the genre for this gen, now it's Battle Royal.

This is not a guess man. Nvidia, AMD and Intel have roadmaps. I am not talking about market trends but hardware advancements. You are deviating.

Don't they make custom stuff for consoles? The roadmap would be useless.

Nope. They use their existing tech that is found in PCs.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonevangelho/2018/06/12/sources-amd-created-navi-for-sonys-playstation-5-vega-suffered/#2612059924fd

But this says they made it excusive for the PS5.

They make mildly customized versions of the very products on that roadmap.

Probably customized for heat and cost purposes.

Hmm..... /looks at the original Xbox hardware and software platform and compares the PS4 hardware/software platform and then compares to the PS2/. It looks to me like MS set the trend of console hardware and software 17 years ago.

Navi is AMD next GPU iteration after Vega. Its not going to be a Playstation exclusive. The writer of that article is a moron

"The other interesting aspect to all of this is that my sources never mentioned Microsoft in the Navi conversations. This is pure speculation, but maybe Microsoft's next Xbox devices -- code-named "Scarlett" -- won't use Navi at all. Perhaps it will use a separate semi-custom solution incorporating Vega, or something else entirely that we're not privy to. Either way, the conversations I had referred to Navi in the past tense, as if it was already finished."

I hate when people not only speculate but base more speculation off their initial speculation. Navi like all of AMD architecture is going to be used across PC and consoles just like this gen.

Forward compatibility

or

New Generation

PICK ONE!

What purpose does bringing up nonsensical arguments serve exactly?

The objection you're trying to bring up is like arguing that you can't have Artificial Intelligence unless you block humans from making all the decisions...like NO DUH, that is the POINT of Artificial Intelligence!

Similarly...

The POINT of new generations is introducing new hardware to go beyond the limitations of games built from previous systems. So It's not "preventing forward compatibility" (your very though process is wrong) new generations can not happen unless the base hardware is elevated above a previous systems capability. You can't have one with the other because they are contradictory.

Forward compatibility = the continuation of a current generation with games designed around the limitations of previous hardware, with the option of better resolution and frame rate...ALA Fire dumpsters like Sea of Thieves and State of Decay 2 only in 4k.

New Generation = Games built from the ground up with the newest hardware as a base which exceed limitations of previous systems capability.