Sonic the Hedgehog games are bad, and it's time to feel bad for enabling them

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Avatar image for BenjaminBanklin
#1 Posted by BenjaminBanklin (2907 posts) -

Listen, no one likes Sonic anymore. When was the last good Sonic game? Whatever you're answer is, it's likely a terrible game too. Sonic isn't good, it's a memory you're holding onto that you need to let go of. Sega isn't capable of making a good Sonic game. It makes you wonder if Sonic was ever good in the first place. Chances are, it may not be,

The series is more popular with furries than normal people and that's a bad sign. The franchise has always stressed SPEEEEED over well-designed calculated gameplay and that's its anchor. These games will never be good, if you stop buying them, they'll stop making them.

Its embarrassing to keep anticipating these games only to be let down every time. Like a dog waiting for his long gone master to show up. It's not cute anymore and it's leaving poop everywhere. Not worth the disappointment.

Avatar image for MonsieurX
#2 Posted by MonsieurX (38081 posts) -

Sonic Mania.

/thread

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#3 Posted by Boycie (4089 posts) -

Clearly some people like Sonic. Even the last one some people seemed to find it fun.

Personally I think the only great things about Sonic are Sonic himself and the greenhill zone.

The rest is awful.

Avatar image for Litchie
#4 Edited by Litchie (22316 posts) -

Sonic Mania is a good Sonic game I've heard. But I personally think Sonic sucks, even the Sonic games that are considered good. Some people are stillhoping for a good 3D Sonic game even after the 20 last ones they made really, really sucked, and that's just.. weird.

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#5 Edited by Todddow (855 posts) -

I agree OP, let's add all things Nintendo to this list, too.

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#6 Edited by samfisher56 (752 posts) -

sonic is goat /thread

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#7 Posted by BenjaminBanklin (2907 posts) -

@MonsieurX said:

Sonic Mania.

/thread

Sonic Forces

/you wish

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#8 Edited by ArchoNils2 (10080 posts) -

@MonsieurX said:

Sonic Mania.

/thread

this. I guess TC is just trolling.

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#9 Posted by Alucard_Prime (9734 posts) -

These days I barely play platformers, I do have fun with them but there is always another game in my library that demands my attention more.

But Sonic is definitely one of my favorites, I like the style of the game and the emphasis on speed, good score too.

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#10 Edited by deactivated-5a4ebb3492deb (17 posts) -

I grew up with Sonic 2 being my first platformer, but I find that the Mario franchise clowns even the best Sonic games. Especially Yoshi's Island which is still my favorite platformer.

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#11 Posted by Heirren (613 posts) -

Sonic 1&2(never played CD but heard it looks great too) have better graphics than most modern games of today. Sonic 3 is where the designs started getting a tad messy with a drab color palette which I'm strayed too far from the series. So give credit to that design aspect.

The games though unless you memorize everything, they're like Random Time Events.

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#12 Posted by uninspiredcup (28192 posts) -

Yes.

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#13 Edited by nintendoboy16 (35263 posts) -

@MonsieurX said:

Sonic Mania.

/thread

Around here though, Sonic Mania is the Fallout: New Vegas of the Sonic series though.

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#14 Posted by goodzorr (388 posts) -

I must admit I never got the Sonic hype. Nor the Mario one...

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#15 Posted by sayyy-gaa (5847 posts) -

@MonsieurX said:

Sonic Mania.

/thread

Nothing more needs be said.

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#16 Posted by Needhealing (1876 posts) -

Most people don't care about Sonic games, but it has a loyal fanbase that will buy the trash games that Sega pours out. Somehow I feel these fans are worse than COD fans. At least COD is okay in quality, Sonic should just go to the garbage bin.

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#17 Posted by TheEroica (17759 posts) -

I agree with tc main point.... Which is that this franchise at its best has pushed out a few B level games, including the original games which are simply just ok. It has been outclassed in every iteration its ever done and most of the games are flat out bad.

Personal opinion aside, few franchises would be given as many chances as sonic has been given and one could argue the series has NEVER had a spectacular game.

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#18 Posted by drummerdave9099 (3864 posts) -

They're not all bad. Overrated yes, but not bad. The majority are pretty bad though.

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#19 Posted by Renegade_Fury (20146 posts) -

lol. 26 years old, and still rustling jimmies like it's 1991. Sonic > your favorite series.

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#20 Edited by storm_of_swords (2445 posts) -

@BenjaminBanklin said:

Listen, no one likes Sonic anymore. When was the last good Sonic game? Whatever you're answer is, it's likely a terrible game too.

The last good Sonic game is Sonic Mania which released just four months ago and is a great game. I do agree that most other modern Sonic games suck, but Sonic Mania is good and most of the Sonic games from the 16-bit generation were good. Sonic Generations was also another pretty good Sonic game.

@BenjaminBanklin said:

The franchise has always stressed SPEEEEED over well-designed calculated gameplay and that's its anchor.

This comment confirms that you clearly don't know what you are talking about and have not played the first Sonic the Hedgehog game on the Genesis. I question if you have even played any of the Sonic games from the 16-bit generation past maybe the first level. The first Sonic the Hedgehog game especially is much more focused on platforming than speed. Sonic has the ability to go fast, but the platforming obstacles will prevent you from going very fast for very long unless you get very, very good at the game. Often, in this game, you have to slow down to focus on getting past the obstacles. Sonic 2 embraced the speed aspect more than the original, but it was still more focused on platforming obstacles than speed. It wasn't until the modern Sonic games that the series started stressing speed over everything else and that's why most of the modern Sonic games suck, but it wasn't always like that.

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#21 Edited by pelvist (7150 posts) -

If you are talking about the 3D Sonic games then I agree, but Sonic 1, 2, 3/Knuckles, CD and Mania are good games.

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#22 Posted by caryslan2 (2436 posts) -

I love how 20+ years later people like to pretend Sonic never had a good game, and that even the Genesis/Sega CD ones were somehow garbage.

During the 16-bit era, Sonic games were considered some of the best games of their time, and were the chief(although, not only) reason why Sega made such massive inroads into the gaming market.

But now, these games which were classics are suddenly terrible? Anyone care to explain to me how this magically happened?

Yeah, Sonic has seen alot of crappy games over the last decade, but the Genesis Sonic games are classics, as is Sonic Mania.

@BenjaminBanklin said:

ays stressed SPEEEEED over well-designed calculated gameplay and that's its anchor. These games will never be good, if you stop buying them, they'll stop making them.

Have you ever played a Sonic game from the 16-Bit era or even Sonic Mania? Because while the games sold on the gimmick of Sonic being faster than any previous platform mascot, those games had tons of areas that emphasised platforming over speed. In fact, some levels will outright punish you for going too fast.

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#23 Posted by locopatho (23557 posts) -

Yep. It bemuses me how this wreck of a series rumbles on. There's a decent one like Colours or whatever every 5 years or something but nothing must play since the 2D games of the 90s.

@Renegade_Fury said:

lol. 26 years old, and still rustling jimmies like it's 1991. Sonic > your favorite series.

Being mildly curious as to why a 20+ year old corpse hasn't fully rotted away yet isn't being "rustled". Sonic ain't even the top 100 gaming series, any more than Bubsy is.

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#24 Posted by funsohng (29977 posts) -

@MonsieurX said:

Sonic Mania.

/thread

So to have a good Sonic game, they have to go back and make one that feels like it's 20 years old game.

That's like admitting Sonic can't be a modern game, that Sonic going 3D was a mistake, that Sonic is basically a dead series that only can live through nostalgia.

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#25 Edited by Renegade_Fury (20146 posts) -

@locopatho: Rotting corpse? Comparing it to Bubsy? LOL. It's been nearly 30 years, and certain people still need to chime in with "Sonic sux or was never good" and it literally hasn't even been six months since the universally acclaimed Sonic Mania was released. Kids still like Sonic and beyond the games too (see Boom and the Archie & IDW comics) so I'm convinced anyone that's riding the Sonic hatewagon in 2017 is a Nintendo fanboy that must have suffered a severe swirly by a SEGA fan in 1992.

Avatar image for Randoggy
#26 Posted by Randoggy (3366 posts) -

@funsohng said:
@MonsieurX said:

Sonic Mania.

/thread

So to have a good Sonic game, they have to go back and make one that feels like it's 20 years old game.

That's like admitting Sonic can't be a modern game, that Sonic going 3D was a mistake, that Sonic is basically a dead series that only can live through nostalgia.

A good game is a good game.

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#27 Posted by locopatho (23557 posts) -

@Renegade_Fury:Yeah, rotting corpse. It gets a twitch every few years like Colours or Mania, but even the best ones still aren't top tier games. Just "good". And there's like a half dozen in between every good one that are atrocious. Not just the "infamous" ones like Shadow or 2006 either. There were multiple garbage ones on the Wii, and mediocre XBLA spinoffs, and then Sonic Boom (which wasn't even functional) and on and on it goes. Many of these are easily as crap as anything Bubsy ever did. At least he had the grace to just die rather than pumping out dozens of crap games on every system known to man.

It's just fascinating why such a poor series still sells so much and retains such fan loyalty. It's like the Souls fandom intensity and loyalty, without any of that series' quality or innovation. Is it all older gamers who still remember Sonic's early glory days as if they were yesterday?

"the Sonic hatewagon" - Why would I hate Sonic? I loved his rivalry with Mario back in the day, his original Megadrive games are still great fun and I love playing them on the X360 Sonic HD Collection to this day. Why would anyone who says they like Sonic accept such shitty games from their beloved mascot?

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#28 Edited by Renegade_Fury (20146 posts) -

@locopatho: Or maybe, just maybe, try to hear me out on this one, it's that *gasp* people genuinely enjoy playing these games even if you don't. Ever try thinking of that, or is that concept too far beyond for you to grasp? I could go on and on about what makes the Sonic games fun to play, but what's the point? It's not worth writing something like that for a SW audience.

Yeah hatewagon, because for anyone that wasn't around in the 90's, why would they give two shits about Sonic if they don't like the games? Any person with a shred of common sense would just ignore the series, so obviously there must be a form of PTSD that the blue blur instills in these particular individuals. Hopefully one day they'll be able to get over it, because unfortunately for them, Sonic isn't going anywhere.

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#29 Posted by BenjaminBanklin (2907 posts) -

@Renegade_Fury said:

@locopatho: Rotting corpse? Comparing it to Bubsy? LOL. It's been nearly 30 years, and certain people still need to chime in with "Sonic sux or was never good" and it literally hasn't even been six months since the universally acclaimed Sonic Mania was released. Kids still like Sonic and beyond the games too (see Boom and the Archie & IDW comics) so I'm convinced anyone that's riding the Sonic hatewagon in 2017 is a Nintendo fanboy that must have suffered a severe swirly by a SEGA fan in 1992.

Sonic Mania is practically a fan game adopted by Sega. Sonic games for the modern age are an embarrassment. The worst thing that happened to this series is going 3D. No one hates Sonic because it's Sega, people hate it because it's bad and the creepy fanbase won't ever realize it's not worth holding onto anymore.

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#30 Posted by Heirren (613 posts) -

@BenjaminBanklin:

Sonic Adventure is awful. It's embarrassingly bad. Sega produces such great work I am surprised they released such a shoddy mess of a game.

Avatar image for funsohng
#31 Posted by funsohng (29977 posts) -

@Randoggy said:
@funsohng said:
@MonsieurX said:

Sonic Mania.

/thread

So to have a good Sonic game, they have to go back and make one that feels like it's 20 years old game.

That's like admitting Sonic can't be a modern game, that Sonic going 3D was a mistake, that Sonic is basically a dead series that only can live through nostalgia.

A good game is a good game.

ayyy butthurt sonic fan trying to deny the trooth

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#32 Posted by vickissv2 (1951 posts) -

Generations, Colors and Mania were hot, so STFU.

Avatar image for Randoggy
#33 Edited by Randoggy (3366 posts) -

@funsohng said:
@Randoggy said:
@funsohng said:
@MonsieurX said:

Sonic Mania.

/thread

So to have a good Sonic game, they have to go back and make one that feels like it's 20 years old game.

That's like admitting Sonic can't be a modern game, that Sonic going 3D was a mistake, that Sonic is basically a dead series that only can live through nostalgia.

A good game is a good game.

ayyy butthurt sonic fan trying to deny the trooth

Whatever makes you feel better bud.

Avatar image for Renegade_Fury
#34 Posted by Renegade_Fury (20146 posts) -

@BenjaminBanklin said:
@Renegade_Fury said:

@locopatho: Rotting corpse? Comparing it to Bubsy? LOL. It's been nearly 30 years, and certain people still need to chime in with "Sonic sux or was never good" and it literally hasn't even been six months since the universally acclaimed Sonic Mania was released. Kids still like Sonic and beyond the games too (see Boom and the Archie & IDW comics) so I'm convinced anyone that's riding the Sonic hatewagon in 2017 is a Nintendo fanboy that must have suffered a severe swirly by a SEGA fan in 1992.

Sonic Mania is practically a fan game adopted by Sega. Sonic games for the modern age are an embarrassment. The worst thing that happened to this series is going 3D. No one hates Sonic because it's Sega, people hate it because it's bad and the creepy fanbase won't ever realize it's not worth holding onto anymore.

Oh, so Sonic Mania doesn't count? I thought no one liked Sonic, and whatever latest Sonic game we named was supposed to be bad? Hmm, that's odd, or perhaps it's just that stating the truth goes against your stupid ass narrative.

Switching gears to bashing 3D Sonic then? Cool, well if you want to play a good 3D Sonic, may I direct you to Sonic Generations, but yeah, please tell me how it's absolute shit or pretend that it doesn't exist. I'll take either answer, thanks in advance.

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#35 Posted by Jag85 (12037 posts) -

2D Sonic is superior to 2D Mario in almost every way, for reasons I've already mentioned before:

Controls - Sonic's controls are more fluid and sophisticated than Mario.

Physics - Sonic's gameplay is more physics-driven than Mario.

Level design - Sonic levels have greater depth, and more non-linearity, than Mario levels.

Replay value - Sonic levels have greater replay value than Mario levels.

Graphics - Sonic takes the cake here.

Audio - Again, Sonic takes the cake here.

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#36 Posted by DocSanchez (4753 posts) -

@BenjaminBanklin said:

Listen, no one likes Sonic anymore. When was the last good Sonic game? Whatever you're answer is, it's likely a terrible game too. Sonic isn't good, it's a memory you're holding onto that you need to let go of. Sega isn't capable of making a good Sonic game. It makes you wonder if Sonic was ever good in the first place. Chances are, it may not be,

The series is more popular with furries than normal people and that's a bad sign. The franchise has always stressed SPEEEEED over well-designed calculated gameplay and that's its anchor. These games will never be good, if you stop buying them, they'll stop making them.

Its embarrassing to keep anticipating these games only to be let down every time. Like a dog waiting for his long gone master to show up. It's not cute anymore and it's leaving poop everywhere. Not worth the disappointment.

Oh shut up you tart.

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#37 Posted by Heirren (613 posts) -

@Jag85:

Sonics levels are a mess. For example hit a spring or get tossed in the air with absolutely no idea where you are going to land. Sorry that's just stupid. The game stresses speed but the game never let's the player Guage the area ahead. 16:9 helped somewhat in Mania but those older titles in 4:3 where sonic is centered in the screen? Nah. Too much loss of control in sonic. Roll around for 10 seconds with no idea and/or visual ques as to where you can go. Sometimes it doesn't even make sense.

Sonic is nowhere near Mario. Mario let's the player react to the level as it progresses. sonic does not.

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#38 Posted by nintendoboy16 (35263 posts) -

@Renegade_Fury said:

@locopatho: Rotting corpse? Comparing it to Bubsy? LOL. It's been nearly 30 years, and certain people still need to chime in with "Sonic sux or was never good" and it literally hasn't even been six months since the universally acclaimed Sonic Mania was released. Kids still like Sonic and beyond the games too (see Boom and the Archie & IDW comics) so I'm convinced anyone that's riding the Sonic hatewagon in 2017 is a Nintendo fanboy that must have suffered a severe swirly by a SEGA fan in 1992.

Really now? Still think anyone who bashes Sonic is a Nintendo fanboy? I'm sorry, but don't Nintendo and Sonic fans practically get along now, especially since Sonic is now a Smash character, or do you hate that too?

And last I checked, most of the Sonic hate comes from cows. The fanbase of a company that pretty much nuked the Dreamcast out of the competition.

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#39 Posted by BenjaminBanklin (2907 posts) -

@Renegade_Fury said:
@BenjaminBanklin said:
@Renegade_Fury said:

@locopatho: Rotting corpse? Comparing it to Bubsy? LOL. It's been nearly 30 years, and certain people still need to chime in with "Sonic sux or was never good" and it literally hasn't even been six months since the universally acclaimed Sonic Mania was released. Kids still like Sonic and beyond the games too (see Boom and the Archie & IDW comics) so I'm convinced anyone that's riding the Sonic hatewagon in 2017 is a Nintendo fanboy that must have suffered a severe swirly by a SEGA fan in 1992.

Sonic Mania is practically a fan game adopted by Sega. Sonic games for the modern age are an embarrassment. The worst thing that happened to this series is going 3D. No one hates Sonic because it's Sega, people hate it because it's bad and the creepy fanbase won't ever realize it's not worth holding onto anymore.

Oh, so Sonic Mania doesn't count? I thought no one liked Sonic, and whatever latest Sonic game we named was supposed to be bad? Hmm, that's odd, or perhaps it's just that stating the truth goes against your stupid ass narrative.

Switching gears to bashing 3D Sonic then? Cool, well if you want to play a good 3D Sonic, may I direct you to Sonic Generations, but yeah, please tell me how it's absolute shit or pretend that it doesn't exist. I'll take either answer, thanks in advance.

Nope. Sure doesn't. When you have to reach decades back into the Sonic grabbag to get a "good" game, then that proves Sonic is trash tenfold. What if the only good Mario games were the ones back from the NES days? You want the new games to be better than the legacy games. Sega is incapable of such ambition.

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#40 Posted by BenjaminBanklin (2907 posts) -

@DocSanchez: Good comeback. Hope you didn't rip your sweaty Sonic t-shirt getting that one off your chest.

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#41 Posted by VFighter (3802 posts) -

Wow...this site is just one shit show after another anymore. Have the mods left and let the extremely stupid fanboys in charge?

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#42 Posted by organic_machine (9940 posts) -

@heirren said:

@Jag85:

Sonics levels are a mess. For example hit a spring or get tossed in the air with absolutely no idea where you are going to land. Sorry that's just stupid. The game stresses speed but the game never let's the player Guage the area ahead. 16:9 helped somewhat in Mania but those older titles in 4:3 where sonic is centered in the screen? Nah. Too much loss of control in sonic. Roll around for 10 seconds with no idea and/or visual ques as to where you can go. Sometimes it doesn't even make sense.

Sonic is nowhere near Mario. Mario let's the player react to the level as it progresses. sonic does not.

Well Sonic didn't actually move particularly fast. People enjoyed them because they FELT fast, that's the difference. The platforming was based on physics based momentum, so speed was a reward for good platforming. People seem to think it's the other way around: IE that you go fast and are punished with traps. But the game is designed the other way. You won't go fast until you learn how the platforming works. You use the slopes of the level to get to where you need to go as quickly as you can. The games (at least Sonic 2 and onward) were literally designed for speedruns.

In other words, and this is incredibly old fashioned design, your first experience with the game is your worst experience with the game. This is by design (at least Sonic 2 and onward). You're supposed to go back and perfect the levels and get the best times as possible. This is also why many people go back to the old games and are confused as to why people liked them. This isn't just Sonic either. Many Sega series are designed in this old school acrade-y mindset. I mean, that was Sega's idea: to bring the arcade experience home.

The question is how successful are these games at implementing this formula? In my opinion, Sonic 1 and CD are messes. But Sonic 2 is amazingly elegant (though falls apart int he late game). Sonic 3 + K is well designed but I feel the level design is a step down in many ways from 2, there are a few noticeable bollocks parts of some of these levels and I feel more time should have been dedicated to play testing. Are these games for everyone? Hell no. But for some people on this forum to sit there and say that these games were never good? That's some pretty selective memory there.

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#43 Posted by Renegade_Fury (20146 posts) -

@nintendoboy16: If they're a 30+ year old that's still saying that stupid shit, then yes. Anyone born after that era wouldn't care enough to continuously regurgitate that nonsense. Otherwise, it's as you said, because Sonic has been doing the best on Nintendo hardware since Adventure 2 Battle. I think Mania was the #2 selling game on the e-shop for August as well.

@BenjaminBanklin: Gotta keep dat spin goin'. You'd make Sonic proud.

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#44 Posted by nintendoboy16 (35263 posts) -

@Renegade_Fury said:

@nintendoboy16: If they're a 30+ year old that's still saying that stupid shit, then yes. Anyone born after that era wouldn't care enough to continuously regurgitate that nonsense. Otherwise, it's as you said, because Sonic has been doing the best on Nintendo hardware since Adventure 2 Battle. I think Mania was the #2 selling game on the e-shop for August as well.

@BenjaminBanklin: Gotta keep dat spin goin'. You'd make Sonic proud.

Well, I was born in 1991 and even as a Nintendo fanboy then, I always liked Sonic. I had way more fanboy bashings on PlayStation and XBOX when they came around.

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#45 Posted by BenjaminBanklin (2907 posts) -

@nintendoboy16: So you're saying you've always been on the wrong side of history?

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#46 Posted by Alucard_Prime (9734 posts) -

I barely played any of the 3D Sonic titles though, mostly I was talking about the 2D ones, I think they are great. The level design, for example in the very first game, is done in a way that rewards good observation and dexterity, you have to time things right to go through areas super quickly. It's quite the thrill when you get it right and blast through a big chunk of a level in ball form.

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#47 Posted by Renegade_Fury (20146 posts) -
@nintendoboy16 said:

Well, I was born in 1991 and even as a Nintendo fanboy then, I always liked Sonic. I had way more fanboy bashings on PlayStation and XBOX when they came around.

Yeah, so you missed out on the rivalry in its heyday. Since Sonic is no longer a major player, I can only believe that those that still care enough to shit on the franchise or want to pretend that Sonic was never good, and despite Mania proving the contrary, would be people that can't let go of their 90's playground battles. I don't think it's hard to see what makes the games appealing even if one doesn't like them, but most gamers are stupid, so maybe I'm giving them too much credit, lol.

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#48 Edited by storm_of_swords (2445 posts) -

@Renegade_Fury said:

@locopatho: I'm convinced anyone that's riding the Sonic hatewagon in 2017 is a Nintendo fanboy that must have suffered a severe swirly by a SEGA fan in 1992.

I really don't think it's Nintendo fans that are doing most of the hating on Sonic in 2017. That rivalry is long over and I think that most of the people that still enjoy the old school gameplay of Sonic games naturally gravitate towards Nintendo consoles and Sonic games always sell best on Nintendo platforms, so I don't think that is where the hate is primarily coming from. A lot of old Sega fans also migrated to Xbox consoles after Sega left the console market, so I don't see much hate coming from there either. From what I've observed, most of the Sonic hate seems to come from the Playstation fanboys for some reason.

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#49 Posted by aigis (7354 posts) -

Sonic boom was great

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#50 Posted by VFighter (3802 posts) -

Yawn another thread about how Sonic was never good, don't you trolls ever get tired of looking like complete idiots all the time?