I'm personally excited that these two games are expected to release this holiday season. I'm hoping there will be a rivalry renaissance. I would love for Sonic to be relevant again. Do you think it's possible, SW? If you haven't seen it already, below are the reveal trailers for both games. Mario has a whopping 17 million views and it's destined to be sure fire hit. Sonic has about 600K after just a few days. The enthusiasm is definitely there.
I don't think there's much of a rivalry. Mario is just perfecting itself and platforming even further while Sonic is grasping at the fundamentals again and trying to resurface with a respectable game. Sonic Forces could be good, but people thought that about many other games in the past.
I wish Sega would just make Sonic Adventure 3, I like the Adventure games more so then the latest Sonic games and I need to see more of Sonic Forces before I jump-in. For now, I'm more interested in Super Mario: Odyssey.
No, the new sonic game is likely going to be terrible, I don't think sonic will ever do well in 3d because the speed that made these games appealing turn them into mindless running.
I didn't think Sonic was up to snuff with Mario in 2D, when Sonic games at least had an argument for being considered good. In 3d, it's been one giant blow out in favor of Mario. The Sonic Adventure are fucking trash people apologize for, because the dreamcast has to be paraded around as something it isn't. After that? People settled for Sonic Colors as an improvement, and that game is dullsville.
Even the most irritating of Mario games (Sunshine) or creatively dull (3D Land/World) are genuinely more enjoyable to play than Sonic the Hedgehog.
They fell way too in love with the idea that Sonic is speed first, and a platformer second.
I enjoyed Sonic Generations more than recent Mario games. And so far, Sonic Forces looks like it's shaping up to be another Generations, whereas Mario Odyssey is giving Sonic 06 vibes. Sonic Forces for me.
If Forces really is like Generations, then it isn't even worth thinking about to me: I'll take Sonic. Mario is also going in the opposite direction of what I want, the focused obstacle courses found in the Galaxy games. and is reverting back to the aimless 64 design.
I didn't think Sonic was up to snuff with Mario in 2D, when Sonic games at least had an argument for being considered good. In 3d, it's been one giant blow out in favor of Mario. The Sonic Adventure are fucking trash people apologize for, because the dreamcast has to be paraded around as something it isn't. After that? People settled for Sonic Colors as an improvement, and that game is dullsville.
Even the most irritating of Mario games (Sunshine) or creatively dull (3D Land/World) are genuinely more enjoyable to play than Sonic the Hedgehog.
They fell way too in love with the idea that Sonic is speed first, and a platformer second.
Sonic's premise was practically designed for them to use the words BLAST PROCESSING. Now they're stuck with this hedgehog who runs fast. Since then Sega has been obsessed with reinventing him only to come across constant hits and misses. I'm not sure why they don't just stick to what works: i.e. Sonic Generations mixing both styles of gameplay.
As far as 2D goes, 2D Sonic was better than 2D Mario, in almost every way, from the platforming mechanics, physics and level design to the graphics and music.
I completely disagree on all areas expect graphics and music. :P
Mechanics were floaty and inconsistent when slowed down, lead-room was bad, level design is only engaging when you are good at the game (lots of gimmicks for poor players and many ramps that stunt the game down to a snails pace), hit detection was poor and the enemy placement felt random. Too many leaps of faith, too little reaction time, design revolved around level memorization than skill with the mechanics, the sprites are too big and the color palette too similar (sometimes projectiles are hard to view against the high detailed backgrounds)
As far as 2D goes, 2D Sonic was better than 2D Mario, in almost every way, from the platforming mechanics, physics and level design to the graphics and music.
Indeed. I'll take Sonic and about 15 other platformer IPs before getting to Mario, which I consider to be middle of the pack.
I was always under the impression that Mario games were better designed than Sonic games. I still do feel this way but I'd like to get someone's perspective on the opposing opinion.
I didn't think Sonic was up to snuff with Mario in 2D, when Sonic games at least had an argument for being considered good. In 3d, it's been one giant blow out in favor of Mario. The Sonic Adventure are fucking trash people apologize for, because the dreamcast has to be paraded around as something it isn't. After that? People settled for Sonic Colors as an improvement, and that game is dullsville.
Even the most irritating of Mario games (Sunshine) or creatively dull (3D Land/World) are genuinely more enjoyable to play than Sonic the Hedgehog.
They fell way too in love with the idea that Sonic is speed first, and a platformer second.
back in genesis/snes days. sonic was easily better and more innovative. mario was just a platformers which many clones follow mario. sonic was different. its about speed and collected coins.
I always hated mario even as child and loved playing sonic back in days. they were very fun games. 2d sonic games were better than mario bros games at those times.
mario was just a platformers which follow many clones.
That is the worst troll post you've ever made. I didn't even think you could pull this off, you are the fucking Michael Jordan of bad posts. The Tom Brady. The Muhammed Ali.
I was always under the impression that Mario games were better designed than Sonic games. I still do feel this way but I'd like to get someone's perspective on the opposing opinion.
Don't let these crazy people fool you, **** sonic the hedgehog.
2D Mario was the first of its kind to introduce the composite genre of action platformers by way of making the jump not just the primary mechanic of advancing through a level but also as a means of defeating enemies.
This is not to say that Sonic wasn't innovative but the idea that Super Mario Bros. wasn't innovative? I can't get behind that.
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No disrespect meant but I'd take Champ's advice on platformers over yours, man. :(
No disrespect meant but I'd take Champ's advice on platformers over yours, man. :(
Disrespect intended. If Ghost wasn't a troll, and genuinely serious, there are STD's worth having than taking his opinion on anything. Not just games, **** that, anything. His opinion on cereal is probably terrible lol
mario was just a platformers which follow many clones.
That is the worst troll post you've ever made. I didn't even think you could pull this off, you are the fucking Michael Jordan of bad posts. The Tom Brady. The Muhammed Ali.
in early 90s. there were many many mario clones. sidescroll platformers where you jump to kill enemies. it was very common. there were many clones that follow mario
mario was just a platformers which follow many clones.
That is the worst troll post you've ever made. I didn't even think you could pull this off, you are the fucking Michael Jordan of bad posts. The Tom Brady. The Muhammed Ali.
in early 90s. there were many many mario clones. sidescroll platformers where you jump to kill enemies. it was very common. there were many clones that follow mario
Right, but the way you worded it....never mind, Sonic sucks. His lone good games are his racing games.
@jumpaction: i know every single one on GT. who were you on GT my dear friend?
@jg4xchamp said:
Right, but the way you worded it....never mind, Sonic sucks. His lone good games are his racing games.
2d sonic games were easily better than mario games. now i dont play platformers anymore especially modern platformers absolutely suck but early sonic were best platformers ever. cant stand mario even when i was kid. always prefer sonic.
@ghosts4ever: I had a different username back then. :) Uh, do I remember it? I'm getting old. I do recall changing it to AhHereSteve but I don't remember what it was before that.
2D Mario was the first of its kind to introduce the composite genre of action platformers by way of making the jump not just the primary mechanic of advancing through a level but also as a means of defeating enemies.
This is not to say that Sonic wasn't innovative
These comparisons are always very odd. I guess it's to be expected given Sonics marketing power.
Alex The Kidd (1986), against Super Mario Bros (1985) introduced rudimentary RPG mechanics, you could interact with NPC's, play mini games, buy items from a shop, optional power-ups from an inventory.
The player could optionally use vehicles in the level, with levels designed in layered tiers, land, air and water, again providing versatility to the game-play.
Alex The Kidd also featured puzzle solving in the later stages.
This was a platformer in 1986. Yet... nobody gives a shit about Alex The Kidd, poor old Alex focused on gameplay rather than marketing.
@jumpaction: I'm still drinking my coffee, so this might come off a little like rambling, but to be blunt: everything. On a gameplay level, for 2D, controlling Sonic feels natural, while controlling Mario feels stiff. In 3D, speedrunning in Sonic gives me that thrill to always come back and try again in order to improve, while in Mario, once I beat a stage I never have the yearning to go back unless it's something like the Perfect Run or Champion's Road. Level design: Sonic is significantly more rewarding for skilled players that know how to use speed and momentum to their advantage, while Mario levels are more about gimmicks, are short in not a good way, and look the same. Art: Sonic is colorful, sharp, and always is graphically impressive, and art art style I mean come on:
do I have to explain? :P Music: Another one I shouldn't have to explain, but Sonic is king in this department even in games like '06 while where at best in Mario games they'll be catchy, but will have them on repeat. Mario World has like what 3 pieces total? Then if you want to go there, on a character level, I like Sonic's laid-back, adventurous, and cocky attitude over Mario's generic goody two shoes one of just being servant of the princess, lol. So yeah, whether you want to examine element by element or the whole package, Sonic is better to me. That doesn't mean I don't like Mario, because I do have countless of his games including spinoffs, but if you want me to compare them against each other, the blue blur is my guy.
@uninspiredcup: That sounds amazing. Why have I never played Alexx The Kidd. Criminal is right! :O
@Renegade_Fury: Thank you. :)
I do disagree with you on the gameplay front though. I always felt Mario had better game-feel than Sonic. When things slow down, the emphasis on physics based platforming feels really unresponsive and unpredictable. I feel like I have a better handle of Mario's jump in both a slow and fast context. Sonic's accelerated movement doesn't work for me when he's decelerated because you're given so little momentum to maneuver his jump between platforms.
The level design is more rewarding for skilled players though and that's integrated into the multi-route design, but Mario for me has always been enticing regardless of skill level. I also think you're maybe ignoring some of the gimmicks found in Sonic games like pushing blocks, weighing scales, ramps and even teleporters. :P I would say Sonic out-gimmicks Mario actually.
Mario may have more levels designed around a different idea but the idea is always centered around Mario's jump. Sonic typically has visual gimmicks that are just there to give the player a rush or a visual sensation.
These comparisons are always very odd. I guess it's to be expected given Sonics marketing power.
Alex The Kidd (1986), against Super Mario Bros (1985) introduced rudimentary RPG mechanics, you could interact with NPC's, play mini games, buy items form a shop, optional power-ups from an inventory.
The player could optionally use vehicles in the level, with levels designed in layered tiers, land, air and water, again providing versatility to the game-play.
Alex The Kidd also featured puzzle solving in the later stages.
This was a platformer in 1986. Yet... nobody gives a shit about Alex The Kidd, poor old Alex focused on gameplay rather than marketing.
Criminal? Yep.
Now this I can get behind, Alex The Kidd is the shit.
I completely disagree on all areas expect graphics and music. :P
Mechanics were floaty and inconsistent when slowed down, lead-room was bad, level design is only engaging when you are good at the game (lots of gimmicks for poor players and many ramps that stunt the game down to a snails pace), hit detection was poor and the enemy placement felt random. Too many leaps of faith, too little reaction time, design revolved around level memorization than skill with the mechanics, the sprites are too big and the color palette too similar (sometimes projectiles are hard to view against the high detailed backgrounds)
2D Mario > 2D Sonic. All day. :)
Sonic had deeper mechanics with superior physics, the level design had more depth and complexity, the hit detection was just right, the enemy placement was well-placed so that you tread carefully the first time yet can get speed boosts from them on repeat playthroughs, the reaction time was consistent with movement speed, level memorization is only necessary for faster lap times on repeat playthroughs, the sprite size was just right, and it had a wider colour palette.
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