Since everyone is talking flops

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Gifford38

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#1 Gifford38
Member since 2020 • 66 Posts

who else is actual excited about the 3d audio? Is it going to work while watching movie, music and other than just games since its built in to the ps5?

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Pedro

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#2 Pedro
Member since 2002 • 37874 Posts

These of one of the features that I am least excited about and I believe the average consumer most likely wouldn't care.

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PinkRibbonScars

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#3 PinkRibbonScars
Member since 2019 • 576 Posts

Is 3D audio the same tech VR uses? Because if it is, then yeah it's awesome.

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Archangel3371

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#4 Archangel3371
Member since 2004 • 29715 Posts

I think that it might be neat but it’s not really something that I’d say that I’m necessarily excited about.

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APiranhaAteMyVa

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#5 APiranhaAteMyVa
Member since 2011 • 4148 Posts

@Pedro: I agree with that, home Atmos and DTS X is overrated, barely anyone has a decent 5.1 setup never mind a 5.1.4 set up. No matter what 3D audio you have with stereo speakers or headphones it is still 2 speakers producing the sound.

I feel home 3D audio is just a way to try and sell people new equipment: atmos speakers and amplifiers.

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onesiphorus

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#6 onesiphorus
Member since 2014 • 3123 Posts

Out of curiousity, is there such thing as 3D audio? I thought that 3D is visual?

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APiranhaAteMyVa

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#7 APiranhaAteMyVa
Member since 2011 • 4148 Posts

@onesiphorus said:

Out of curiousity, is there such thing as 3D audio? I thought that 3D is visual?

yes, with standard audio the different sounds are all mixed together into 2 channels or 6 channels or however many speakers it supports, whereas in 3D audio each sound is an individual item and can be moved around separately in a 3D space on a computer. this gives each indivdual sound a more realistic sense of space. The problem is you need a ton of speakers in all directions to make it worthwhile.

Home Atmos and DTS X I don't believe work this way I think they use some type of advanced upmixing tomfoolery, whereas cinema Atmos is individual sounds.

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R4gn4r0k

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#8 R4gn4r0k
Member since 2004 • 33053 Posts

@onesiphorus: Sure thing. You'd be able to know where a sound is coming from in a 3d space.

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Gifford38

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#9 Gifford38
Member since 2020 • 66 Posts

@R4gn4r0k said:

@onesiphorus: Sure thing. You'd be able to know where a sound is coming from in a 3d space.

more than that. think rain hearing every drop around you instead of one noise. thunderstorm from the distance then hearing it get closer in real time. there is so much possibilities with this.

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Gifford38

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#10 Gifford38
Member since 2020 • 66 Posts
@APiranhaAteMyVa said:
@onesiphorus said:

Out of curiousity, is there such thing as 3D audio? I thought that 3D is visual?

yes, with standard audio the different sounds are all mixed together into 2 channels or 6 channels or however many speakers it supports, whereas in 3D audio each sound is an individual item and can be moved around separately in a 3D space on a computer. this gives each indivdual sound a more realistic sense of space. The problem is you need a ton of speakers in all directions to make it worthwhile.

Home Atmos and DTS X I don't believe work this way I think they use some type of advanced upmixing tomfoolery, whereas cinema Atmos is individual sounds.

no you dont all you need is head phones, your crappy tv speakers ect.

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Gifford38

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#11 Gifford38
Member since 2020 • 66 Posts
@gifford38 said:
@APiranhaAteMyVa said:
@onesiphorus said:

Out of curiousity, is there such thing as 3D audio? I thought that 3D is visual?

yes, with standard audio the different sounds are all mixed together into 2 channels or 6 channels or however many speakers it supports, whereas in 3D audio each sound is an individual item and can be moved around separately in a 3D space on a computer. this gives each indivdual sound a more realistic sense of space. The problem is you need a ton of speakers in all directions to make it worthwhile.

Home Atmos and DTS X I don't believe work this way I think they use some type of advanced upmixing tomfoolery, whereas cinema Atmos is individual sounds.

no you dont all you need is head phones, your crappy tv speakers ect.

its built in the ps5 to convert even your tv speakers.

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Gifford38

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#12 Gifford38
Member since 2020 • 66 Posts

@Pedro said:

These of one of the features that I am least excited about and I believe the average consumer most likely wouldn't care.

so you would not like to have 3d sound all around you thats coming out of your tv speakers?

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getyeryayasout

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#13 getyeryayasout
Member since 2005 • 13084 Posts

I use ear buds or over ear cans with Atmos on Xbox. The games that utilize it sound great. I'm looking forward to hearing how things improve next gen.

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Pedro

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#14 Pedro
Member since 2002 • 37874 Posts

@gifford38 said:

so you would not like to have 3d sound all around you thats coming out of your tv speakers?

I am indifferent to the 3D audio for traditional games. I care more about it for VR games.

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xantufrog

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#15  Edited By xantufrog  Moderator
Member since 2013 • 12379 Posts

@gifford38: how exactly will your TV speakers project a sound coming from a source behind your avatar to come from behind your physical being?

No. It may be very HQ sound, but it can't actually provide true 3D audio with just the TV speakers

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Gifford38

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#16 Gifford38
Member since 2020 • 66 Posts

@xantufrog said:

@gifford38: how exactly will your TV speakers project a sound coming from a source behind your avatar to come from behind your physical being?

No. It may be very HQ sound, but it can't actually provide true 3D audio with just the TV speakers

im only going by what mark cerny said in the video 43:38 in the video he says for every sound source and ever tech.

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sealionact

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#17 sealionact
Member since 2014 • 4823 Posts

Listening to the thread, theres a lot of confusion about Sonys 3d audio, and the blame for that lies solely with Sony.

Cerny said they wanted to provide 3d audio without needing even a 5.1 setup. They want 3d audio coming out of stereo TV speakers as well, which is nonsense. Theres been countless "virtual" surround soundbars that bounce the surround sound of the back walls and they've all been rubbish.

3d audio apparently works well with headsets, but only if they are tuned for your individual ear...but Sony haven't got an idea how they will implement it. "Maybe you'll send a photo or video of your ears". Really?

Cerny dismissed Atmos so I'm guessing it's still not supported, but I'm guessing they must be able to incorporate the 3d technique into 5.1 systems....which was what Cerny said they were trying to avoid needing in the first place!

It sounds like another ps3 dedicated chip fiasco to me, but I'll admit I'm curious to see how it shapes up.

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hardwenzen

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#18 hardwenzen
Member since 2005 • 369 Posts

I don't understand this 3d audio thing. So i've been using an amp/dac setup with a quality pair of open back headphones for almost 10 years. The "3d" sound positioning is very easy to achieve, you don't need to measure your ear, and send the measurements to Sony lol.


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osan0

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#19 osan0
Member since 2004 • 15632 Posts

the implementation and accessibility of it will make or break it.

If they are relying on people to go out and buy very high end equipment to make the most out of it then it will be a bit of a waste. it will be brilliant...for around 5 people. most people will just stick with headphones or their TV speakers.

however if they can make it plug and play with decent headphones then it could be brilliant. Ideally the player will be able to plug headphones into the controller and be able to take advantage of it (and of course they should also be able to plug speakers into the back of the console if they are using separate speakers). i think they said that it can work with any speakers/headphones so they just need to make it easy as possibly to use it and get a benefit.

it's nice that audio is getting some attention. its a very important and underrated part of a game.

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R4gn4r0k

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#20 R4gn4r0k
Member since 2004 • 33053 Posts

@gifford38 said:
@R4gn4r0k said:

@onesiphorus: Sure thing. You'd be able to know where a sound is coming from in a 3d space.

more than that. think rain hearing every drop around you instead of one noise. thunderstorm from the distance then hearing it get closer in real time. there is so much possibilities with this.

Sounds sweet, but would such a thing work on stereo speakers, i.e. what the majority will be using?

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onesiphorus

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#21 onesiphorus
Member since 2014 • 3123 Posts
@osan0 said:

the implementation and accessibility of it will make or break it.

If they are relying on people to go out and buy very high end equipment to make the most out of it then it will be a bit of a waste. it will be brilliant...for around 5 people. most people will just stick with headphones or their TV speakers.

however if they can make it plug and play with decent headphones then it could be brilliant. Ideally the player will be able to plug headphones into the controller and be able to take advantage of it (and of course they should also be able to plug speakers into the back of the console if they are using separate speakers). i think they said that it can work with any speakers/headphones so they just need to make it easy as possibly to use it and get a benefit.

it's nice that audio is getting some attention. its a very important and underrated part of a game.

System Wars focuses too much on the visual side of gaming, while we rarely discuss about the audio side. Surely, even with hugh advances in video game graphics in the last several generations, there must be advances in audio technology. Gaming is not just visuals, but audio as well.

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osan0

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#22  Edited By osan0
Member since 2004 • 15632 Posts

@onesiphorus: There should be but humans are primarily a visual animal. its much harder to sell sound investment than it is visual. its much harder to quantify too. and that is a real shame.

i'm no audiophile or anything. i'm quite happy with a 80-100 quid set of headphones (which in the audio world is laughable cheap and poor set of headphones). but i know even my set of headphones can still offer a better sound experience than what it is currently doing...if only the rest of the chain could deliver.

but that side of gaming has, if anything, regressed a bit. i remember having a creative sounblaster sound card and it allowed devs to do all sorts of cool things with audio in gaming.

sadly MS killed off a lot of the API that was needed for it with windows vista (they were thinking most PCs dont have soundcards so it just needs to be good enough to deal with on board sound) and companies just havent really focused on building a different way to do it. there have been some attempts at simulating surround sound and such like but its pretty meh and a lot of it is just guess work.

devs are also not putting in the time and resources to do it in software. like graphics, audio is really one of those things where everything, from the hardware to the dev investment to the output device, needs to be well developed.

hopefully we see more attention to it this gen (i think the XSX also has enhances audio capabilities). but as i said: it needs to be accessible. simple plug and play with non specialised equipment and still delivering an enhanced experience.

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JasonOfA36

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#23 JasonOfA36
Member since 2016 • 1439 Posts

It's gonna be pretty important for competitive games and immersion. I remember it being used by CS. Easiest way to hear footsteps and you can actually pinpoint where an enemy or a sound was made.

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Litchie

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#24 Litchie
Member since 2003 • 25483 Posts

@xantufrog said:

@gifford38: how exactly will your TV speakers project a sound coming from a source behind your avatar to come from behind your physical being?

No. It may be very HQ sound, but it can't actually provide true 3D audio with just the TV speakers

Using braincells is cheating.

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Zero_epyon

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#25 Zero_epyon
Member since 2004 • 13885 Posts

Honestly, I think devs are going to use it to squeeze a little extra performance out of their games or ignore the 3D audio completely initially. Only First Party studios are going to take advantage of it and it'll be up to the consumers to be able to tell the difference.

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KungfuKitten

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#26  Edited By KungfuKitten
Member since 2006 • 27108 Posts

Yeah 3D audio can make a big difference.

I have open headphones that create a 3D sound stage and no it doesn't sound fake or weird, it sounds very very good.

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Jag85

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#27 Jag85
Member since 2005 • 14187 Posts

There's barely any talk about transistor counts. That's more relevant to actual computing power than the FLOPS.

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Pedro

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#28 Pedro
Member since 2002 • 37874 Posts

@Jag85 said:

There's barely any talk about transistor counts. That's more relevant to actual computing power than the FLOPS.

Its high. :P

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KungfuKitten

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#29 KungfuKitten
Member since 2006 • 27108 Posts

@Pedro said:
@Jag85 said:

There's barely any talk about transistor counts. That's more relevant to actual computing power than the FLOPS.

Its high. :P

They are still counting them. It will take a while.

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Zero_epyon

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#30 Zero_epyon
Member since 2004 • 13885 Posts

I don't see 3rd party devs going the extra mile for 3D audio unless their game needs it as part of the design. First party games for sure but even then, it won't be every title. I see the Audio chip being used in some way to close that gap between Xbox and PS5, but that doesn't seem any more likely.

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#31 pelvist
Member since 2010 • 7637 Posts

@pinkribbonscars: Yeah, SteamVR and Oculus SDK have built-in support but not all games use it. You can tell when they do though. I think Half-Life Alyx has implemented dynamic 3D audio that Valve showed off a few years ago for Source, it simulates acoustics as well and sounds really, really good.

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TheGrat1

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#32 TheGrat1
Member since 2008 • 4266 Posts

I am. I remember when I first got an hd tv and surround sound system. Gaming in hd was nice but the surround sound (especially MGS4) was like a new experience. It made the game so immersive.