Shin'en: If Developers Can't Make Great Looking Games On Wii U, It's Their Fault

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Micropixel

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#1 Micropixel
Member since 2005 • 1383 Posts

Shin'en had some interesting things to say about the Wii U's hardware and development.

The Wii U eDRAM has a similar function as the eDRAM in the XBOX360. You put your GPU buffers there for fast access. On Wii U it is just much more available than on XBOX360, which means you can render faster because all of your buffers can reside in this very fast RAM. On Wii U the eDRAM is available to the GPU and CPU. So you can also use it very efficiently to speed up your application.

The 1GB application RAM is used for all the games resources. Audio, textures, geometry, etc.

Theoretical RAM bandwidth in a system doesnt tell you too much because GPU caching will hide a lot of this latency. Bandwidth is mostly an issue for the GPU if you make scattered reads around the memory. This is never a good idea for good performance.

I cant detail the Wii U GPU but remember its a GPGPU. So you are lifted from most limits you had on previous consoles. I think that if you have problems making a great looking game on Wii U then its not a problem of the hardware.

Manfred Linzner

[SOURCE]

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Vargion

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#2 Vargion
Member since 2013 • 45 Posts
In the words of Robin Williams: "It's not your fault. It's not your fault. It's not your fault. It's not your fault." "EAWAWAAAAAAAHHHHH!" "It's not your fault..." Wii U games are going to look like shit regardless of what you do to them... But Shin'en is right about one thing: it is their fault. It's their fault for developing on shitty, outdated hardware and not the PC. They deserve what's coming to them.
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tagyhag

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#3 tagyhag
Member since 2007 • 15874 Posts
I find Super Mario Galaxy more visually appealing than most of the 360/PS3 library. It is up to the developers to make use of what they have.
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EG101

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#4 EG101
Member since 2007 • 2014 Posts

I agree. if the Sony drones can blame all the Ugly terrible Ports on the PS3 on Lazy Devs then why wouldn't the SAME standard be used on Nintendo's Wii U???

Devs are not taking advantage of Wii U's custom hardware and the Wii U is definitely at least On Par with the 360/PS3.

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Michael0134567

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#5 Michael0134567
Member since 2008 • 28651 Posts

Yup, sounds about right.

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lx_theo

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#6 lx_theo
Member since 2010 • 6211 Posts

I thought the big hit for the Wii U was that it didn't really compare to PS4 and Xbone? Eh, I'm not going to Wii U for great techinical achievements in graphics anyways.

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stereointegrity

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#7 stereointegrity
Member since 2007 • 12149 Posts
wii u and great graphics dont mix
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Lumpy311

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#8 Lumpy311
Member since 2013 • 2009 Posts

This is why the Wii U doesn't have as many games as other consoles.

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jer_1

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#9 jer_1
Member since 2003 • 7451 Posts
Pretty sad that N didn't make a more capable system, they wouldn't have to talk about these kinds of topics.
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Grey_Eyed_Elf

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#10 Grey_Eyed_Elf
Member since 2011 • 6512 Posts

It's not that people can't make good looking games on the Wii U its that they don't want to waste their time and resources on it... Heck look at the first party games not even Nintendo is pushing the hardware.

People need to start leading by example because the same thing happens to me when I hear a developer talk about games nowadays to when politicians talk on TV... I nod my head and change channel.

If you are a developer saying that other developers aren't doing something right then by God your next game better do that thing you spoke about right or your gonna look like a arse.

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no-scope-AK47

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#11 no-scope-AK47
Member since 2012 • 3755 Posts

Seems the wii u has more excuses than games.

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DJ-Lafleur

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#12 DJ-Lafleur
Member since 2007 • 35604 Posts

He's right. games like Mario Kart 8, X, Sonic Lost World, and Wind Waker HD look fantastic. games don't need the highest end graphics to look visually appealing.

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g0ddyX

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#13 g0ddyX
Member since 2005 • 3914 Posts

I find Super Mario Galaxy more visually appealing than most of the 360/PS3 library. It is up to the developers to make use of what they have.tagyhag


Then you must find Angry Birds the most visual appealing game of all time.

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LastRambo341

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#14 LastRambo341
Member since 2010 • 8767 Posts
This is a no-brainer But people, with lack of common sense, will judge the full power of the WiiU from rushed ports or its first year of games. Games get better as time goes on when the developers get more used to the hardware and take advantage of it. Did Dead Rising display the great visual appeal of X360? No, but the Bioshock did Did Resistance: Fall of man display the great visual appeal of Ps3? No, but Uncharted did
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LastRambo341

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#15 LastRambo341
Member since 2010 • 8767 Posts

[QUOTE="tagyhag"]I find Super Mario Galaxy more visually appealing than most of the 360/PS3 library. It is up to the developers to make use of what they have.g0ddyX



Then you must find Angry Birds the most visual appealing game of all time.

It is called art style, buddy
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GunSmith1_basic

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#16 GunSmith1_basic
Member since 2002 • 10548 Posts
it's pretty obvious that the wiiu is a step up graphically from the 360 and ps3. This was not news to me. It is also, however, tragically irelevant
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Kaz_Son

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#17 Kaz_Son
Member since 2013 • 1389 Posts

Seems the wii u has more excuses than games.

no-scope-AK47
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no-scope-AK47

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#18 no-scope-AK47
Member since 2012 • 3755 Posts

[QUOTE="tagyhag"]I find Super Mario Galaxy more visually appealing than most of the 360/PS3 library. It is up to the developers to make use of what they have.g0ddyX



Then you must find Angry Birds the most visual appealing game of all time.

I see what you did there :lol:

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no-scope-AK47

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#19 no-scope-AK47
Member since 2012 • 3755 Posts

[QUOTE="g0ddyX"]

[QUOTE="tagyhag"]I find Super Mario Galaxy more visually appealing than most of the 360/PS3 library. It is up to the developers to make use of what they have.LastRambo341



Then you must find Angry Birds the most visual appealing game of all time.

It is called art style, buddy

So they say but seems like the style is not working or there would be more games sold. Even a megaton like gt5 is not on the system that says alot.

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Netret0120

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#20 Netret0120
Member since 2013 • 3562 Posts
[QUOTE="no-scope-AK47"]

Seems the wii u has more excuses than games.

Kaz_Son

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AmnesiaHaze

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#21 AmnesiaHaze
Member since 2008 • 5685 Posts

yea, wii U is the perfect machine , stupid developers cant program

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Cherokee_Jack

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#22 Cherokee_Jack
Member since 2008 • 32198 Posts
Big deal, you can make great-looking games for the Game Boy. The ability of developers to make great-looking games for the Wii U was never in question.
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tagyhag

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#23 tagyhag
Member since 2007 • 15874 Posts

[QUOTE="tagyhag"]I find Super Mario Galaxy more visually appealing than most of the 360/PS3 library. It is up to the developers to make use of what they have.g0ddyX



Then you must find Angry Birds the most visual appealing game of all time.

Dat projecting yo.
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bbkkristian

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#24 bbkkristian
Member since 2008 • 14971 Posts
I agree. It seems like the big N gave devs more room to expand the technical graphics than the competition.
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nameless12345

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#25 nameless12345
Member since 2010 • 15125 Posts

These guys should really be given the chance to work on a high-profile game.

They are basically what Factor 5 used to be for Nintendo once.

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iHarlequin

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#26 iHarlequin
Member since 2011 • 1928 Posts

Nintendo and the WiiU developers will have to take a special care with the artstyle that developers for high-end graphic PC games don't - like Battlefield and Call of Duty.

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bbkkristian

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#27 bbkkristian
Member since 2008 • 14971 Posts

Nintendo and the WiiU developers will have to take a special care with the artstyle that developers for high-end graphic PC games don't - like Battlefield and Call of Duty.

iHarlequin
Lol at your sig :lol:
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TheKingIAm

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#28 TheKingIAm
Member since 2013 • 1531 Posts
It's nintengodno's fault for releasing a console in 2012 with 2006 hardware. I didn't even think that was possible but of course nintengodno got it done.
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iHarlequin

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#29 iHarlequin
Member since 2011 • 1928 Posts

[QUOTE="iHarlequin"]

Nintendo and the WiiU developers will have to take a special care with the artstyle that developers for high-end graphic PC games don't - like Battlefield and Call of Duty.

bbkkristian

Lol at your sig :lol:

 

GTA V's probably a great game but people need to be reminded who's the KING :P.

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bbkkristian

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#30 bbkkristian
Member since 2008 • 14971 Posts

[QUOTE="bbkkristian"][QUOTE="iHarlequin"]

Nintendo and the WiiU developers will have to take a special care with the artstyle that developers for high-end graphic PC games don't - like Battlefield and Call of Duty.

iHarlequin

Lol at your sig :lol:

 

GTA V's probably a great game but people need to be reminded who's the KING :P.

Damn Straight. :P
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Lumpy311

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#31 Lumpy311
Member since 2013 • 2009 Posts

[QUOTE="bbkkristian"][QUOTE="iHarlequin"]

Nintendo and the WiiU developers will have to take a special care with the artstyle that developers for high-end graphic PC games don't - like Battlefield and Call of Duty.

iHarlequin

Lol at your sig :lol:

 

GTA V's probably a great game but people need to be reminded who's the KING :P.

The franchise that is shit by today's standards isn't king. It's shit. Get over your childhoods already the game sucks balls now.

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bbkkristian

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#32 bbkkristian
Member since 2008 • 14971 Posts

[QUOTE="iHarlequin"]

[QUOTE="bbkkristian"] Lol at your sig :lol:Lumpy311

 

GTA V's probably a great game but people need to be reminded who's the KING :P.

The franchise that is shit by today's standards isn't king. It's shit. Get over your childhoods already the game sucks balls now.

Sounds like butthurt. Zelda Ocarina of Time GOAT, forever and always,
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deactivated-58c8ef5f8044e

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#33 deactivated-58c8ef5f8044e
Member since 2012 • 546 Posts

You look at games like Mario Kart 8 and Xenoblade II, I think there's a bias regarding third party. 

 

I approve:

Ubisoft

Platinum Games  

Two Tribes

WayForward

and Shin'en 

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ChubbyGuy40

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#34 ChubbyGuy40
Member since 2007 • 26442 Posts

These guys should really be given the chance to work on a high-profile game.

nameless12345

No. That would destroy who they are.

Sounds like butthurt. Zelda Majora's Mask GOAT, forever and always,bbkkristian

fixed

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nameless12345

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#35 nameless12345
Member since 2010 • 15125 Posts

[QUOTE="nameless12345"]

These guys should really be given the chance to work on a high-profile game.

ChubbyGuy40

No. That would destroy who they are.

 

Why so?

I think it's waste of talent when they only can work on small, low-profile games...

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ChubbyGuy40

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#36 ChubbyGuy40
Member since 2007 • 26442 Posts

Why so?

I think it's waste of talent when they only can work on small, low-profile games...

nameless12345

Because staffing up doesn't guarantee a bigger and better game. That's how you ruin perfectly good studios.

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Michael0134567

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#37 Michael0134567
Member since 2008 • 28651 Posts

[QUOTE="Lumpy311"]

[QUOTE="iHarlequin"]

 

GTA V's probably a great game but people need to be reminded who's the KING :P.

bbkkristian

The franchise that is shit by today's standards isn't king. It's shit. Get over your childhoods already the game sucks balls now.

Sounds like butthurt. Zelda Ocarina of Time GOAT, forever and always,

Still causing butthurt after all these years. Tells you how good it is.

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iHarlequin

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#38 iHarlequin
Member since 2011 • 1928 Posts

[QUOTE="iHarlequin"]

[QUOTE="bbkkristian"] Lol at your sig :lol:Lumpy311

 

GTA V's probably a great game but people need to be reminded who's the KING :P.

The franchise that is shit by today's standards isn't king. It's shit. Get over your childhoods already the game sucks balls now.

 

The last LoZ, Skyward Sword, has an aggregate score of 93. Twilight Princess, the one before that, has as a score 95. Windwaker, the one before, a 96. That's without considering the few handheld Zelda games that have also scored well. It's time to get over the 'hur durr no violence, not only for adults = bad game' and just acknowledge, as the entirety of the reviewing community does, that Zelda is the greatest, or one of the greatest (losing maybe to Mario) gaming of series of all time - given how it consistently pushes out top-notch games.

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NaveedLife

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#39 NaveedLife
Member since 2010 • 17179 Posts

I agree. if the Sony drones can blame all the Ugly terrible Ports on the PS3 on Lazy Devs then why wouldn't the SAME standard be used on Nintendo's Wii U???

Devs are not taking advantage of Wii U's custom hardware and the Wii U is definitely at least On Par with the 360/PS3.

EG101

PS3 is vastly different in architecture than the 360, though they are close in power.  Thus it is NOTHING like the WiiU which is just plain weaker than the PS4 and One.  I know you just had to get your sony jab in though and couldn't help yourself.

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dr_jashugan

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#40 dr_jashugan
Member since 2006 • 2665 Posts

Seems the wii u has more excuses than games.

no-scope-AK47

Let me correct that:

Seems the wii u has more excuses than games > WiiU

:P

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lamprey263

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#41 lamprey263
Member since 2006 • 36227 Posts
There is more to looks that just the superficial things fanboys bring up like resolution and framerate (though lets not say those aren't important). But a good visual aesthetic can be achieved by having good art direction. Games can be simple and yet beautiful at the same time.
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no-scope-AK47

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#42 no-scope-AK47
Member since 2012 • 3755 Posts

There is more to looks that just the superficial things fanboys bring up like resolution and framerate (though lets not say those aren't important). But a good visual aesthetic can be achieved by having good art direction. Games can be simple and yet beautiful at the same time.lamprey263

NIntendo makes consoles for their 1st party devs and then says 3rd parties try this and it blew up in their face.

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nintendoboy16

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#43 nintendoboy16
Member since 2007 • 36631 Posts
That's a bit... arrogant.
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Guy_Brohski

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#44 Guy_Brohski
Member since 2013 • 1982 Posts

You can only get so much horsepower from a pinto.

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Gargus

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#45 Gargus
Member since 2006 • 2147 Posts

This is why the Wii U doesn't have as many games as other consoles.

Lumpy311

Well that and.....

Terrible third party support.

The shittiest online service of all consoles on the market and PC.

A gimmick tablet controller with a bad interface, shitty battery life, and cant even do multi touch inputs.

A parade of the same old franchises for 194th time of being brought out.

Couple of all that together with the mentality nintendo has of blaming everyone else for the wiiu's short comings and you have a perfect example of a joke of a console that isnt relevant or anything many people want.

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zeroyaoi

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#46 zeroyaoi
Member since 2013 • 2472 Posts

He's right. games like Mario Kart 8, X, Sonic Lost World, and Wind Waker HD look fantastic. games don't need the highest end graphics to look visually appealing.

DJ-Lafleur
Don't forget Skyward Sword. Game is gorgeous. Hope the new game retains that art style.
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Lumpy311

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#47 Lumpy311
Member since 2013 • 2009 Posts

[QUOTE="Lumpy311"]

This is why the Wii U doesn't have as many games as other consoles.

Gargus

 

Well that and.....

 

Terrible third party support.

 

The shittiest online service of all consoles on the market and PC.

 

A gimmick tablet controller with a bad interface, shitty battery life, and cant even do multi touch inputs.

 

A parade of the same old franchises for 194th time of being brought out.

 

Couple of all that together with the mentality nintendo has of blaming everyone else for the wiiu's short comings and you have a perfect example of a joke of a console that isnt relevant or anything many people want.

Watch out for the sheep.

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hiphops_savior

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#48 hiphops_savior
Member since 2007 • 8474 Posts
That's a bit... arrogant.nintendoboy16
They managed to get Nano Assault Neo running on the Wii U at 720p @60fps with one core. Technically, they got all the way to 1080p but they liked how 720p looked better.
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stuff238

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#49 stuff238
Member since 2012 • 3284 Posts

I don't understand his complaints. Developers are quite capable of making great looking games on the wii U. They just don't want to waste their time making games for it because we won't buy them anyway.

Nintendo fans claim they want 3rd party support, but then they don't buy their games. What nintendo fans should say is... "We want weird/quirky/cartoony/japanese 3rd party games for our system".

Nintendo fans confuse the 3rd parties. They don't want mass effect, assassins creed or batman. They want monster hunter 1000, XYZ RPG COLORS, and Rayman legends.

3rd parties shouldn't bother porting realistic games to nintendo consoles, so they don't. Nintendo fans need to say what they actually want. They just want more cartoon games like wonderful 101, professor layton, scribblenaunts, electroplankten and a bunch of other wierd sounding games like ace attorny(spelling?). lol

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LastRambo341

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#50 LastRambo341
Member since 2010 • 8767 Posts
It's nintengodno's fault for releasing a console in 2012 with 2006 hardware. I didn't even think that was possible but of course nintengodno got it done.TheKingIAm
XboxOne's and Ps4's tech will be outdated really quickly as well