Scorn is coming out next month with DirectStorage, can we admit Sony made plenty of overblown promises?

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Juub1990

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#1 Juub1990
Member since 2013 • 12200 Posts

Their big talking points didn't even come to fruition.

The SSD was the crown jewel of the PS5, 2 years into the generation, where has all this power gone? Where is this "paradigm shift" that Sony spoke of? Will we have to wait another year, two years to see it? Will it be in Spider-Man 2?

Scorn will be the first game to use DirectStorage on PC and it's coming out next month, presumably closing the gap that existed thanks to the PS5's so-called SSD. In 2 years, Sony didn't even have the time to show off their alien technology and gain a significant lead over their competitors.

The second talking point was the "We believe in generations" Once again, 2 years in, where are those "next-gen games"? The only looker that takes full advantage of the full suite of hardware is Rift Apart. GOWR is their next big game and is also releasing on PS4. Hell, all of their big releases this year, HFW, Gran Turismo, and GOWR are all coming to PS4. They got Spider-Man 2 for PS5 next year but Microsoft also has Starfield and Redfall.

Was it once again a case of Sony overpromising and underdelivering?

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hardwenzen

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#2 hardwenzen
Member since 2005 • 24209 Posts

Just being reminded how this company hyped a new generation on nothing else but an SSD makes me upset at Sony. Imagine having so little going on, that you hype an SSD like the techology was just invented.

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KvallyX

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#3  Edited By KvallyX
Member since 2019 • 7481 Posts

@Juub1990 said:

The only looker that takes full advantage of the full suite of hardware is Rift Apart.

If that is considered a looker, we are in for a shitty gen. That said, the faster load times in games has been awesome to have this gen on XSX and PS5.

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SecretPolice

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#4 SecretPolice
Member since 2007 • 41601 Posts

Thanks, I haven't had a reason to use this one in ages...

lol :P

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KathaarianCode

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#5 KathaarianCode
Member since 2022 • 981 Posts

But can Direct Storage process triangles like PS5s SSD? I don't think so. Checkmate!

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GirlUSoCrazy

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#6  Edited By GirlUSoCrazy
Member since 2015 • 20924 Posts

At the stage where we have mostly cross-gen games it's difficult to tell whether a next-gen only feature is making a significant impact. It could be something that's only taken advantage of in the latter half of this console cycle when developers figure out how to best take advantage of console features and also focus solely on current tech.

I wouldn't be ready to say definitively whether it will make a difference or not. I will say currently we aren't seeing any distinct difference compared to other high speed SSD configurations.

It will be interesting to see if it's possible to benchmark Scorn with directstorage enabled/disabled, but that only speaks to the limitations of prior Windows APIs that were previously holding back developers.

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tdkmillsy

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#7  Edited By tdkmillsy
Member since 2003 • 5231 Posts

On these particular points Sony well over promised and underdelivered.

But all console providers have done that at some point.

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DaVillain

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#8 DaVillain  Moderator
Member since 2014 • 52014 Posts

Is Direct Storage on PC exclusive to Windows 11? If it is, I'm still on Windows 10 but whatever.

I'd take what KvallyX said, seeing these current-gen consoles using SSD is really the game changer this gen has to offer and I'm not expecting any radical overblown promise these current-gens are offering as developers haven't reached their full potential power. Even going 2 years after the current-gen launch is still new for every developer.

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JoshRMeyer

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#9 JoshRMeyer
Member since 2015 • 11970 Posts

Is direct storage on Xbox? If not, no point in comparing a console to PC.

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KathaarianCode

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#10 KathaarianCode
Member since 2022 • 981 Posts

@joshrmeyer: Series S/X and PC.

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SolidGame_basic

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#11 SolidGame_basic
Member since 2003 • 38938 Posts

🥱

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DragonfireXZ95

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#12 DragonfireXZ95
Member since 2005 • 26525 Posts

Of course, most of us knew this wouldn't make a big(or any) difference in the grand scheme of things. Really, even if there was, what is a 4 second load time versus a 5 second load time? Sony was hyping up the SSD because they knew the load time was the only thing they could improve for a minimal amount of money. They could have stuck a stronger video card in there and touted a graphical upgrade, but you know they sure as hell aren't going to spend more money.

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Jrfanfreak88

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#13 Jrfanfreak88
Member since 2008 • 1791 Posts

My ps5 loads games almost instantly while my series x takes they typical 5-15 seconds. A great example is how GT7 has virtually no load screens, just short fades to black, whereas Forza Horizon 5 has loading screens when transitioning between events and car modifications. The dual sense is also wwwaaaayyy better than the simplistic Xbox controller and if you think ps5 is lacking next gen titles then you should be all over Xbox which won’t even have any big exclusive games this year lol. I’ve also seen better looking games on my PS5 and nothing that has blown me away on the Xbox side of things (I thought it was supposed to be way more powerful than the PS5, what happened?!). My ps5 gets played nearly every day whereas my Xbox hasn’t been turned on in months since there’s nothing new to play.

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Pedro

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#14 Pedro
Member since 2002 • 60911 Posts

I remember all the internet shills journalists parroting that it was going to be the game changer. When I criticized their claims as foolery, the Sony fannies went on the offensive with their ignorance on the matter. Those times were hilarious because they bit Sony's hype hook, line, sinker and fisher.😂

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dimebag667

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#15 dimebag667
Member since 2003 • 2435 Posts

@SecretPolice: haha 😂 It's a bold, full bodied flavor, with subtle notes of 'Idunno'. Delicious!

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pelvist

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#16 pelvist
Member since 2010 • 8767 Posts

@joshrmeyer: I remember reading something about the devs confirming direcstorage for PC and XBOX X as well as S.

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osan0

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#17 osan0
Member since 2004 • 17014 Posts

It's sad to say after the PS5 and XSX have been out for what..2 years now? ...but it's early days still i think. I mean Direct Storage is only being used on the PC now..2 years in. It's been available for devs for a while but devs are only looking at it now....says a lot really about where gaming tech is at the moment. Even then there is no major rush to fully implement it (i don't think the GPU accelerated Texture decompression is implemented at the moment on the PC side..though correct me if I'm wrong).

From a technical standpoint, PS5 and XSX games are just games using PS4/X1 Tech and ramping it up to the 9s. Studios are running out of production capacity before they run out of processing power. No Mesh shaders, basic use of tertiary storage (just brute force. Nothing clever). Bolt on a bit of very light ray tracing...that's it.

Don't get me wrong: i don't think the SSD is going to meet the insane hype (which, i maintain, came more from a complete misunderstanding of Sonys talk by the media and fans, rather than Sony themselves talking complete nonsense). It doesn't process graphics. It's never going to be Vram. There will still be some hiding of loading screens. Some Ram is still going to have to be set aside as caches and buffers.

But i do think both the PS5 and XSX have more ability in them than we are currently seeing. Yes the SSD is just a much faster HDD at the end of the day: but speed is critical when performing magic tricks and pulling the wool over the players eyes.

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osan0

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#18 osan0
Member since 2004 • 17014 Posts

@davillain: It works on windows 10 also and will work with SATA as well as NVME drives. Apparently windows 11 does offer some extra benefits but i don't know what they are.

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Nonstop-Madness

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#19 Nonstop-Madness
Member since 2008 • 11427 Posts

Isn't DirectStorage basically want the PS5 does natively with its custom I/O? It sounds more like PlayStation's design choice being validated.

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shellcase86

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#20 shellcase86
Member since 2012 • 6359 Posts

@Juub1990 said:

Scorn will be the first game to use DirectStorage on PC and it's coming out next month, presumably closing the gap that existed thanks to the PS5's so-called SSD.

We can all debate how Sony may have overhyped and/or underdelivered -- but I did not know the SSD was up for debate. Is it a hybrid, some non-functioning SSD?

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PC_Rocks

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#21 PC_Rocks
Member since 2018 • 7547 Posts

@Nonstop-Madness said:

Isn't DirectStorage basically want the PS5 does natively with its custom I/O? It sounds more like PlayStation's design choice being validated.

Nope! Direct Storage is an api for Windows. Sony's IO is nothing new. Nvidia had GPUDirect long before Sony even revealed it but in enterprise space. Even in current state DIrect Storage doesn't feed GPU directly. It's on the roadmap.

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R4gn4r0k

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#22 R4gn4r0k
Member since 2004 • 41784 Posts

@pc_rocks said:

Nope! Direct Storage is an api for Windows. Sony's IO is nothing new. Nvidia had GPUDirect long before Sony even revealed it but in enterprise space. Even in current state DIrect Storage doesn't feed GPU directly. It's on the roadmap.

Any idea what Direct storage will take care of in Scorn's 1.0 release?

It's supposed to burden the CPU less, right? potentially causing an uplift in performance?

Really wish CPU limited games *ahem* far cry, would retro fit something like this.

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kuu2

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#23 kuu2
Member since 2005 • 11862 Posts

Emotion Engine

The Cell

SSD Magic

I'm sensing a theme here.

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xhawk27

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#24 xhawk27
Member since 2010 • 11837 Posts

Pcie 5.0 will blow psst PS5 ssd.

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Gifford38

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#25 Gifford38
Member since 2020 • 5531 Posts

I over hyped the ps5 ssd.

all I know sony costumed there ssd with there i/o through put for the krakken format.

once ps4 games or third party games go over to krakken format the ps5 has few seconds load times.

take ghost once it was formatted with krakken ps5 version it had no loading times.

ratchet and clank has instant loading.

ps4 vs xbox one games xbox loads faster even using the ps5 ssd.

but once in the krakken format it loads faster than series x.

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Nonstop-Madness

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#26  Edited By Nonstop-Madness
Member since 2008 • 11427 Posts

@pc_rocks: AFAIK, GPUDirect, DirectStorage and, the PS5 IO are more or less all trying to achieve the same thing. I.e. Get data from your SSD directly onto the GPU without CPU overhead.

Some definitely overhyped the SSD / IO but, answer this ... why is there new tech for PC that not only requires an SSD but tries to achieve the same end goal as the PS5 architecture (and exists on Xbox)? Because it does provide performance gains.

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PC_Rocks

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#27 PC_Rocks
Member since 2018 • 7547 Posts

@R4gn4r0k said:
@pc_rocks said:

Nope! Direct Storage is an api for Windows. Sony's IO is nothing new. Nvidia had GPUDirect long before Sony even revealed it but in enterprise space. Even in current state DIrect Storage doesn't feed GPU directly. It's on the roadmap.

Any idea what Direct storage will take care of in Scorn's 1.0 release?

It's supposed to burden the CPU less, right? potentially causing an uplift in performance?

Really wish CPU limited games *ahem* far cry, would retro fit something like this.

Not really. The current version doesn't support GPU decompression. The current version is basically just transfers data more efficiently in a way that games requires.

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PC_Rocks

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#28 PC_Rocks
Member since 2018 • 7547 Posts
@Nonstop-Madness said:

@pc_rocks: AFAIK, GPUDirect, DirectStorage and, the PS5 IO are more or less all trying to achieve the same thing. I.e. Get data from your SSD directly onto the GPU without CPU overhead.

Some definitely overhyped the SSD / IO but, answer this ... why is there new tech for PC that not only requires an SSD but tries to achieve the same end goal as the PS5 architecture (and exists on Xbox)? Because it does provide performance gains.

Of course it improves performance but mostly in scenarios limited by CPU. And this doesn't require SSD but will be noticeable most with SSDs. The thing is, it's not some revolutionary way that Sony touted.

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cdragon_88

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#29 cdragon_88
Member since 2003 • 1819 Posts

@pc_rocks said:
@Nonstop-Madness said:

Isn't DirectStorage basically want the PS5 does natively with its custom I/O? It sounds more like PlayStation's design choice being validated.

Nope! Direct Storage is an api for Windows. Sony's IO is nothing new. Nvidia had GPUDirect long before Sony even revealed it but in enterprise space. Even in current state DIrect Storage doesn't feed GPU directly. It's on the roadmap.

So yes, you mean. that sony's choice was correct............

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Pedro

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#30 Pedro
Member since 2002 • 60911 Posts
@osan0 said:

It's sad to say after the PS5 and XSX have been out for what..2 years now? ...but it's early days still i think. I mean Direct Storage is only being used on the PC now..2 years in. It's been available for devs for a while but devs are only looking at it now....says a lot really about where gaming tech is at the moment. Even then there is no major rush to fully implement it (i don't think the GPU accelerated Texture decompression is implemented at the moment on the PC side..though correct me if I'm wrong).

From a technical standpoint, PS5 and XSX games are just games using PS4/X1 Tech and ramping it up to the 9s. Studios are running out of production capacity before they run out of processing power. No Mesh shaders, basic use of tertiary storage (just brute force. Nothing clever). Bolt on a bit of very light ray tracing...that's it.

Don't get me wrong: i don't think the SSD is going to meet the insane hype (which, i maintain, came more from a complete misunderstanding of Sonys talk by the media and fans, rather than Sony themselves talking complete nonsense). It doesn't process graphics. It's never going to be Vram. There will still be some hiding of loading screens. Some Ram is still going to have to be set aside as caches and buffers.

But i do think both the PS5 and XSX have more ability in them than we are currently seeing. Yes the SSD is just a much faster HDD at the end of the day: but speed is critical when performing magic tricks and pulling the wool over the players eyes.

I have made two threads over the past two years on this issue. Two years for ONE game to use Direct Storage. Mesh shader and sampler feedback, MIA. If there is anything that consoles can benefit from, is tech that improves efficiency. But, the tech is non-existent.

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Pedro

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#31 Pedro
Member since 2002 • 60911 Posts
@gifford38 said:

I over hyped the ps5 ssd.

all I know sony costumed there ssd with there i/o through put for the krakken format.

once ps4 games or third party games go over to krakken format the ps5 has few seconds load times.

take ghost once it was formatted with krakken ps5 version it had no loading times.

ratchet and clank has instant loading.

ps4 vs xbox one games xbox loads faster even using the ps5 ssd.

but once in the krakken format it loads faster than series x.

Overhyped is an understatement. You made the most nonsensical claims on the board and continued despite being correct many times. This is why being a shill is bad. Even now, with Krakken and Series X games not using Direct Storage, the PS5 shaves a couple to a few seconds to that of Xbox Series. Remember when you claim it will eliminate all loading?🙄

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Pedro

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#32 Pedro
Member since 2002 • 60911 Posts
@cdragon_88 said:

So yes, you mean. that sony's choice was correct............

The tech exists on PC and Xbox Series. It is not a unique feature to Sony.

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Gifford38

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#33 Gifford38
Member since 2020 • 5531 Posts

@Pedro: well in a way it did get rid of loading. Every ps5 only made game has no loading really. Ratchet and clank it fades like starwars one planet to the other. Demon souls no loading really. Ghost ita what 2 seconds. Reuturnal don't remember a load bar either. When it comes to Sony first party games made only in krakken games are almost instant. Except for hfw. Which is like 10 seconds. But the i/o put is were the ps5 stands out.

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Gifford38

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#34 Gifford38
Member since 2020 • 5531 Posts

@Juub1990: they did show it off. With astrobot playroom, ratchet and clank, demon souls, returnal and the games that are redone in krakken format. Not really any loading. It's almost like nes days were it just boots. Ratchet and clank is very fast. Even going to one planet to the other. During game play you hit a switch rail sliding and the entire level changes instantly. Every asset is loaded instantly. I seen levels change before during game play. but not like this. Everything changes and you don't stop or slow down. Not sure if you played it before but if you didn't I hope one day you do so you can see what i mean.

But I'm not sure about those triangles lol. Jk

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Pedro

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#35 Pedro
Member since 2002 • 60911 Posts

@gifford38 said:

@Pedro: well in a way it did get rid of loading. Every ps5 only made game has no loading really. Ratchet and clank it fades like starwars one planet to the other. Demon souls no loading really. Ghost ita what 2 seconds. Reuturnal don't remember a load bar either. When it comes to Sony first party games made only in krakken games are almost instant. Except for hfw. Which is like 10 seconds. But the i/o put is were the ps5 stands out.

Masking loading with fade screens is still loading. As you have stated, even HFW has loading. PS5 loading is not noteworthy and is not the instant/no loading that you hyped and you went as far as stating that games don't even need to take advantage of it or design for it because it is automatic. All, false.

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Gifford38

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#36 Gifford38
Member since 2020 • 5531 Posts

@Pedro: ok name one console that loads as fast as the ps5. Think about it ps5 specs was thought of about 2 years before it even release. So Sony was testing that speed way before the pc market with there custom I/O throughput. Mark cerny even said developers don't need to worry about were it needs to go. I stated what Mark said. Load screens are so fast its like nes days all over again. No more waiting for the game to load. That was Sony promise and it does what they said it does.

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Pedro

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#37 Pedro
Member since 2002 • 60911 Posts

@gifford38 said:

@Pedro: ok name one console that loads as fast as the ps5. Think about it ps5 specs was thought of about 2 years before it even release. So Sony was testing that speed way before the pc market with there custom I/O throughput. Mark cerny even said developers don't need to worry about were it needs to go. I stated what Mark said. Load screens are so fast its like nes days all over again. No more waiting for the game to load. That was Sony promise and it does what they said it does.

The Series X and S. Because it depends on the game. It is false that Sony was testing the SSD speeds way before PC. Stop spewing fanboy drivel. Loading still exists in games today on Sony's platform. Speaking to you is like speaking to a brick wall because you are so blinded by this meaningless loyalty.

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Gifford38

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#38  Edited By Gifford38
Member since 2020 • 5531 Posts

@Pedro: no not the series x if it's the ps5 version. Every ps5 version of the game the ps5 loads twice as fast.

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blaznwiipspman1

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#39  Edited By blaznwiipspman1
Member since 2007 • 13981 Posts
@kuu2 said:

Emotion Engine

The Cell

SSD Magic

I'm sensing a theme here.

the only ones better at BS than Sony is Nvidia and Apple. Sony only learn from the best.

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hardwenzen

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#40  Edited By hardwenzen
Member since 2005 • 24209 Posts

@blaznwiipspman1 said:
@kuu2 said:

Emotion Engine

The Cell

SSD Magic

I'm sensing a theme here.

the only ones better at BS than Sony is Nvidia and Apple. Sony only learn from the best.

DX12
"Better optimization down the road" the damage control for shit Xbone performance
Teh Cloud

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

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Sagemode87

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#41 Sagemode87
Member since 2013 • 3051 Posts

Yes, because we all know Microsoft has done nothing but deliver with their consoles the last 10 years. Waits for E3....

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Pedro

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#42 Pedro
Member since 2002 • 60911 Posts

@gifford38 said:

@Pedro: no not the series x if it's the ps5 version. Every ps5 version of the game the ps5 loads twice as fast.

That is false but reality has no affect on you.

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blaznwiipspman1

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#43 blaznwiipspman1
Member since 2007 • 13981 Posts

@hardwenzen: what a stretch. MS mainly delivered on all their promises. Their cloud infrastructure is top notch, they are maybe #1 or #2 only behind Amazon, and even that is debatable. Sony uses MS cloud architecture, let it sink in.

Xcloud is probably the best game streaming service on the planet, nothing is close to it.

Smart delivery, means you get the best version of a game depending on the console you get. CHECK

Play anywhere. This one you could bash a bit because it’s limited to a select number of games. Buy and play the game on pc or Xbox.

VRS has been a bit of a let down but MS didn’t hype it up like Sony hyped up SSD.

The biggest thing MS hyped was 12 tflop, and it’s true. So…MS didn’t really lie about anything. Sony on the other hand is full of lies.

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BassMan

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#44 BassMan
Member since 2002 • 16250 Posts

Anything that helps performance is good in my books. These companies can all learn from each other.

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PC_Rocks

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#45  Edited By PC_Rocks
Member since 2018 • 7547 Posts
@cdragon_88 said:
@pc_rocks said:
@Nonstop-Madness said:

Isn't DirectStorage basically want the PS5 does natively with its custom I/O? It sounds more like PlayStation's design choice being validated.

Nope! Direct Storage is an api for Windows. Sony's IO is nothing new. Nvidia had GPUDirect long before Sony even revealed it but in enterprise space. Even in current state DIrect Storage doesn't feed GPU directly. It's on the roadmap.

So yes, you mean. that sony's choice was correct............

No because it's not a game changer or a replacement for a faster GPU. It's only purpose is to serve as a kind of cache for memory because they didn't have enough memory. And as already explained it's neither proprietary or new that Cerny implied.

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ConanTheStoner

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#46 ConanTheStoner  Online
Member since 2011 • 21748 Posts
@gifford38 said:

I over hyped the ps5 ssd.

😂

It's good that you understand this. Just know that Sony will do it again next gen with one or more of their components.

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cdragon_88

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#47 cdragon_88
Member since 2003 • 1819 Posts

@Pedro said:
@cdragon_88 said:

So yes, you mean. that sony's choice was correct............

The tech exists on PC and Xbox Series. It is not a unique feature to Sony.

So you mean yes, that their choice was correct since it's also featured in the Xbox and the pc.

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#48 cdragon_88
Member since 2003 • 1819 Posts
@pc_rocks said:
@cdragon_88 said:
@pc_rocks said:
@Nonstop-Madness said:

Isn't DirectStorage basically want the PS5 does natively with its custom I/O? It sounds more like PlayStation's design choice being validated.

Nope! Direct Storage is an api for Windows. Sony's IO is nothing new. Nvidia had GPUDirect long before Sony even revealed it but in enterprise space. Even in current state DIrect Storage doesn't feed GPU directly. It's on the roadmap.

So yes, you mean. that sony's choice was correct............

No because it's not a game changer or a replacement for a faster GPU. It's only purpose is to serve as a kind of cache for memory because they didn't have enough memory. And as already explained it's neither proprietary or new that Cerny implied.

But their design choice was correct. So yes. That was what I was referring to.

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#49 Gifford38
Member since 2020 • 5531 Posts

@Pedro: ok name a game that loads faster than the ps5 version then.

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#50 Pedro
Member since 2002 • 60911 Posts

@gifford38 said:

@Pedro: ok name a game that loads faster than the ps5 version then.

You made the claim "Every ps5 version of the game the ps5 loads twice as fast.", which is false.