Rumor: Smash Switch co-developed by Bandai Namco again, but uses new rendering engine

https://www.resetera.com/threads/rumor-bandai-namco-co-developer-of-smash-for-switch.41515/

The tweet and account have been removed.

Idiots will say that BN working on it confirms that it's a port, but people with brains will realize that using a new rendering engine means that it's a whole new game. You wouldn't change the rendering engine for a simple port. Hopefully it's still a locked 1080p60.

All lies its a port of smash 4 with added content

Who cares.

Tell that to Blue Point Games.

SotC isn't anything close to a "simple port."

@Ant_17: Smash Wii U and Smash Melee got about as much viewership as Tekken 7 did at last year's Evo. The difference between the viewership of Smash 4 and Tekken 7 last year was about 2,000 people in Tekken's favor. :P

Not that Smash Wii U is a particularly great competitive game. Certainly not as good as Melee but the point stands that a lot of people care about Smash Bros. in and out of the competitive scene. In fact, in 2016 more people watched Smash than Tekken.

Source

Tekken isn't as popular as inaccurate narratives make it out to be. Tekken 7 drastically increased Tekken's general viewership and participation numbers thanks to key changes that made it more accommodating to 2D fighting players. Source

That's just viewing it from a competitive angle. From a non-competitive angle, Tekken 7 doesn't reach the same wide audience as Smash Wii U did. On one, relatively unsuccessful platform, Smash still sold approx. 4 times more than Tekken 7 did.

@jumpaction: I still stand by my meme.

@Ant_17: It's a dumb meme. :P

Probably comes from a source that's not even all that interested in fighting games when you consider just how popular Smash is in the competitive fighting scene. Melee is still about as popular as the newest iteration of Tekken.

@jumpaction: It's a great meme!

This is the onyl thing Tekken fans and SF fans agree on.

Nope, your meme is dum-dum. Smash is still fun to play and Smash 5 will beat Tekken 7 in next years EVO

@Ant_17: I wouldn't even say this meme reflects the opinion of Tekken and Street Fighter fans specifically. I think it's more a sub-set of their fans that have something against non-traditional fighting games.

The irony is that Street Fighter is popular for some of the same reasons Smash Bros. is; tangible characters, a low skill floor that is accessible to newcomers and a strong competitive scene.

Neither have the same skill ceiling as something like Guilty Gears.

The meme is really just for casual fighting fans and doesn't really represent the fighting community so it's kind of lofty and disingenuous. I know it's just a joke and shouldn't be taken seriously but the meme itself is a big red flag of admittance that "I don't know what I am talking about."

I can agree on that.

It has taken me years just to be good with Sol and he is the most normal-ish character there.

@Ant_17:Add King of Fighters and BlazBlue to that list too. It's not enough that these games are contextually jarring (well maybe KoF is a little more approachable) but the games themselves have a larger mechanical tool-set, more movement options and a very devoted community that is hard to tap into.

Street Fighter is the poster boy for fighting games almost because of its accessibility and relatability. I'm not sure why then that SF fans would ridicule Smash for the same reasons. :P

Melee is no joke, and while Nintendo haven't quite succeeded in making a competitive game that rivals it, the game itself has remained really popular in competitive play for years now. I don't think Nintendo will ever make a Smash Bros. that rivals Melee. It will be interesting to see if Smash 5 moves closer toward the competitive direction. It certainly couldn't possibly be worse than Brawl.

Come on guys. I love Smash Bros, and totally consider it a fighting game, but that meme is still funny :)

@judaspete: I can see in some circles how it would be funny, for sure. :P

@jumpaction: serious tekken and 3s player here: smash is not a (competitive) fighting game. Its popularity doesnt derive from its mechanics, but it gets its popularity from people wanting to play as their favorite nintendo character.

To make it resemble a fighting game, you have to change the ruleset drastically from how it originally plays, and limit the stage selection. Additionally, the creator intentionally added things to lower the level of competitive play, rebuffing the fact that the game is not really a competitive game.

@Ant_17: tekken and sf players agree on a lot more than that meme

@X_CAPCOM_X: Well that's a load of garbage. Melee is a competitive fighting game and has remained more popular or as popular as Tekken in Evo for years.

Is Evo not a competitive fighting game tournament or are you waffling with no evidence? :P

The reason Melee has remained this popular is because of its mechanics. Hence why Brawl, a game that lets you play as Snake and Sonic has fallen off the face of the earth; because its mechanics aren't good for competitive play.

http://shoryuken.com/2017/07/17/check-out-the-twitch-tv-viewer-stats-for-evo-2017/

It's telling that the least mechanically interesting fighting game of the lot, Injustice also has the least amount of views despite its popularity of allowing players to play as their favorite comic book heroes. Also no sign of Brawl for the very same reasons; it's not mechanically competitive.

Yet Smash 4 and Melee have really high numbers due to their competitive nature.

You know what Jumpaction? Who cares what dumb elitist fighting game fans think? They made the genre boring and are no fun to play with their extreme high standards.

Who said anything about fun?

it's a fun game, just not a fighting game.

Yeah, high standards.

https://compete.kotaku.com/smash-god-drops-out-of-tournament-because-his-controlle-1794769487

Smash players have weird standards.

@Ant_17: I mean the gameplay loop revolves around fighting opponents to head to head in order to win and it's labeled a fighting game so...

It does what it says on the tin.

I wouldn't say it's high standards. It comes from an absolutely misunderstanding of the material they're talking about. Folks who actually follow competitive fighting games don't champion this stuff at all.

Really it's more of a casual fighting game fan's rhetoric.

@jumpaction: nope not just talking out of my ass.

There were years when the smash community whined a butt load that mr wiz didn't allow smash melee and 64 at evo due to many factors. One of those was the ruleset. Lol, who decides?

Melee may have mechanics that resemble a competitive fg the most, but it still has these problems. It also is old at this point, and really, there are much better old games that we could pick for its spot.

Also, smash at evo is really the product of continuous complaints from the smash community. Before it was even at evo, some players included melee in their tournaments to lend a friendly hand, but even the outcomes of those were bad bc of the people organizing smash (who were horrible for other reasons, but lets not go into those). The games are also much easier to play at an entry 'competitive' level, adding to the amount of people who claim they are tournament level.

Like?

@X_CAPCOM_X:

The problems faced with making a game unintentionally designed for competitive play into a competitive game - naturally. We know the history that Brawl was designed as a response to the competitive scene Melee arose, but as a ruleset formed, so did a community of competitive players; hence a devotion to supporting it in competitive tournaments such as EVO. It's not just a push from those who like to play as their favorite Nintendo characters, but fans of the game who devoted time to competitive play in order to have it recognized as such. At this point, the rule set is decided. It's telling that Smash 4 has a form of play that even mimics these rule-sets (thought lacks the mechanical backbone and balance to support it).

At this point, blaming the rule-set is a moot point. The game has been a constant in EVO for the last three years, and raised higher numbers in those years than Tekken had. It's not an element of confusion anymore and pretending like it is, is disingenous and old-hat. Your one major criticism leveled at the mechanics may have held water 8 years ago but the game has long established itself now, and the rules are concrete. Get with the times. :P

The history is muddled for the game with intrusions from Nintendo themselves which tried to have the whole tournament shut down if they even tried to stream the game. Naturally, Melee was never meant to be a competitive game; though I don't necessarily know if it is true that some of its granular mechanics were intentional as Chris Wagar points to evidence that these mechanics existed in the design process, the point stands that the series is hiccuped by its own publisher and designers trying to downplay its fanbase with entries like Brawl and interfering with the devotion of the fanbase.

Let's not pretend like Street Fighter isn't a fighting game with a very low skill floor who's accessibility and foundations in pop culture are a continuing factor of its success. It's not like we're talking about Guilty Gears here that the best, most competitive fighting games at EVO are even the most popular. Melee's continuing popularity as a staple in EVO for the last three years has more to do with its large fanbase and viewership it attracts which rivals the big boys like Tekken and SF. Really, if anyone is getting the boot next, it's Injustice. :P

If anything, Smash struggles just as much as any 3D fighting game to be recognized as a serious contender for EVO. 3D fighting games have been historically unpopular in EVO due to the nature of their design, and the handi-cap labelled on player 2. You're a serious Tekken player yourself so you should know that EVO audiences haven't been all that embracing to 3D fighting games outside of Tekken. All that being said, Smash has remained a staple of EVO for three years now and has garnered competitive numbers so your dismissal of it is pure bias on your part. Sure feck, Melee has been one of the most popular games at EVO since 2013.

Do you truly believe Melee has remained a popular game for five years in the most popular competitive tournament because you can play as Nintendo characters? Sure sounds to me like you're talking out of your behind. ;)

lol no way it’s not a port. I gearinteeshirt it’s a port.

The way Nintendo handled Donkey Kong I wouldn't be surprised if the new smash is a modified version of the Wii U game.

@SolidGame_basic: More like Splatoon 2. :P

A 'new' game that resembles the predecessor a little too closely.

@Ant_17 said:

Who cares.

Anti-Nintendo posters do. That said, your choice in meme...

...because that is SO true (granted in different ways because I believe it's a fighting game, I just know the stigma around it).

I'd take smash over those boring games any day.

@Ant_17 said:

Who cares.

I think it's going to be a sequel, but in the sense that Blazblue: Continum Shift is a sequel to Calamity Trigger, or King of Fighters Whatever is a sequel to KoF Whathaveyou. It will use a lot of the same assets, but make a few gameplay tweaks and add more content so they can say, "Totally a sequel, hey what's that over there?"

All Smash games are pretty similar in design, just tweaked from the previous generation with some new/old characters and items.

@SolidGame_basic: Eh. Not really.

Melee and Brawl are vastly different games right down to the fundamentals. Completely different movement feels and then you got ugh- tripping which totally changes the game.

@jumpaction: maybe for the pro gamers like yourself, but for most people they could hardly tell you lol

@SolidGame_basic: Oh sorry. I understand you. Yeah like many fighting games, the general play remains the same in these games.

But the difference is in playing these games to compete and it's those granular, mechanical changes that enthusiasts track. Same as any mechanics driven game like Bayonetta, Sonic or Mario.

I'd definitely love Smash 5 to move even closer toward Melee.

@jumpaction: yea, I think Melee is still my favorite too. The one thing I also enjoyed from that game that doesn’t seem to get mentioned is the single player.

@SolidGame_basic: I'm right with you!

SP in Smash 4 was nearly non existant and Subspace in Brawl wasn't very good honestly. Mechanics are far too slow and floaty for side scrolling action.

@jumpaction: true dat, the mini games were great.

For the love of Sakurai, it better not be.

@jumpaction:

Smash Bros. Isn't a real fighting game. It can still be competitive but it doesn't use the same principles as a fighting game. It's more like....sumo wrestling. All it is, is about knocking your opponent off the stage.

@nepu7supastar7: Sumo Wrestling isn't a game genre. The core mechanics revolve around fighting your opponent to establish a victory - it's a fighting game.

How do you knock your opponent off the stage? You fight them. :P

Those who contest that it isn't a fighting game never convince to define it as any tangible alternative.

Genre - Fighting Game

Here's a whole host of them

"A fighting game is a video game genre in which the player controls an on-screen character and engages in close combat with an opponent, which can be either an AI or controlled by another player. The fight matches typically consist of several rounds and take place in an arena, while each character has differing abilities but each is relatively viable to choose. Players must master techniques such as blocking, counter-attacking, and chaining attacks together into "combos". Starting in the early 1990s, most fighting games allowed the player to execute special attacks by performing specific input combinations. The fighting game genre is related to but distinct from beat 'em ups, which involve large numbers of enemies against the human player."

@jumpaction:

You attack your opponent but there's no actual health bar. The basics no longer apply! How many fighting games do you know let you stay in the battle after withstanding 500% damage? Then let's you sucker punch your opponent and steal the win? Even though they hit you more times?

The only reason why it's even labeled a fighting game is because there aren't enough out there to become a genre of their own. But the differences between Smash Bros and real fighting games like Mortal Kombat are night and day!

@nepu7supastar7: The method by which you score points differs the games but doesn't separate it from the genre; the whole idea is that you fight in order to win. Sumo Wrestling isn't even an effective description for Smash Bros. You can't kick or touch the ground in Sumo Wrestling. You can in Smash Bros.

Fighting games are abstract from actual sport and don't represent karate, MMA or Sumo Wrestling; They're an abstract game genre used to describe a play experience. The play experience in Smash revolves around fighting to best your opponent. Just because the means of scoring points differs doesn't mean that the games become a separate genre. Unless you can come up with a useful, descriptive alternative then I'm afraid it stays as a fighting game. Nobody levels this same pedantic metric to describe the ludicrous rules that govern roleplaying games (the most ridiculous game genre as far as I see...), nor other genres like platformers or action/adventure which is basically the wild-west as far as mechanical sets are concerned.

Fighting games is useful in describing any competitive game where players fight one another to achieve a goal. There's no reason to get any more granular just because the win-state is slightly different; it both revolves around hitting your opponent until their resources becomes exhausted enough to attain a victory. If anything, the states remain similar in that whether you're on 500% in Smash or 1% in SF, the last blow that solidifies the round matters; both delivered using fighting mechanics. You still haven't convinced me because the method of which victory is attained is still fighting game mechanics which is what derives the genre's name to begin with; not health bars. They aren't health-bar fighting games. They're fighting games.

By your logic Overwatch and Battlefield don't belong in the same FPS genre.

P.S. Smash Bros. has a mode which operates the same as basic stamina like SF or MK.

@jumpaction:

ROFLMAO ?????

I was just messing with you, dum, dum!! I already know it's a fighting game and all that about rule changes! I play the games too, y'know. Favorite still being Melee on GC though..

And damn, you hit low with that rpg comment! WTF did that come from?? Rpg's are a god send!

@nepu7supastar7: RPGs are great. Haha. :P That wasn't a diss on the games themselves, but the genre has some weird rules that govern what qualifies.

Some roleplaying games literally haven't any roleplaying in them but they're still for some reason roleplaying games. It's like the wild-west. It's all over the place, but generally speaking if you said, like JRPG you know exactly what it means, even if many JRPGs haven't really any room to roleplay. You're sort of stuck acting out one role but with stats.

But you're a scamp! Tricking me like that!...

@jumpaction:

This is what happens when I get bored! :(

so the rendering engine = the physics engine?

i think he made the engine for the graphics. sakurai and other handle the physics/gameplay.

@nepu7supastar7: Hmmm Rakuen is 6 euro on Steam right now. It looks very cute. You could try that if you're bored.

Meme needs a little update, but still relevant. Thank you @93BlackHawk93: