Rockstar's storytelling isn't as good as BioWare's (no 56k)

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jethrovegas

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#1 jethrovegas
Member since 2007 • 5103 Posts

So hai guys I bought L.A. Noire the other day, and having played for a few hours I feel I can safely say that Rockstar's storytelling isn't anywhere near as good as BioWare's (inb4 Team Bondi lol).

In fact, they seem pretty amateurish by comparison. Let's have a look at some specifics:

awwww yeyyeyyayehhh

1. Where's the sex?

This is the main thing that's been going through my head as I play L.A. Noire. Let me get the straight: Rockstar spends the GDP of a small island nation developing technology that makes people's faces look really cool, and they don't bother to include romance subplots? WTF?

I mean, personally, I can think of no better use for motion capture technology than to make characters look as believable as possible whilst caught in the throes of passion. This was great chance for them to beat BioWare at their own game and they choked.

Furthermore, BioWare has explored very unusual sexual territory in their games, and always includes really awesome cutscenes where you get to see like ass cheeks, or a sliver of breast, or maybe a bra.

Hell, in Dragon Age you could impregnate someone. Impregnate!

They've also taken great pains to ensure that gay and lesbian content was available, and in so doing spread themselves open to a whole new audience. Why is Cole Phelps not allowed to **** his partner? The sexual tension is already built in; looks like Rockstar isn't mature enough yet.

a

2. Lack of intensity

Contrary to what this picture might lead you to believe, L.A. Noire doesn't pack narrative intensity on the level of BioWare's latest.

So far I haven't recruited anyone, nor have I been given a directive to. This says to me, in so many words, that Rockstar doesn't have the gumption to put out a high-quality story with big stakes, like BioWare does.

The fact that I have yet to begin assembling a team in L.A. Noire is very worrying; does this mean that there is no major threat do deal with, no showdown, no final battle? Seems to me that Rockstar is wading in the kiddie pool on this one.

a

3. Poor writing

Rockstar's work on L.A. Noire might have passed back in the day, but in today's world, a world revolutionised by BioWare, I have to say I'm less than impressed with what's on display here.

For one thing, the conversations in this game are completely linear.

You make a statement and you get a response, how boring. In BioWare games you get to choose from three, hell, maybe four options, and then get the same response. This may seem small to those of you unfamiliar with Advanced Video Game Writing, but it's actually a huge deal.

Also, the actual quality of the writing pales in comparison to BioWare. They've been consistent for as long as I can remember; just read the example above, skeptics.

a

Overall it's just a damn shame that BioWare, even after all these years, remain the best storytellers in gaming.

I guess the joke is on me for comparing BioWare with a crappy studio that releases filler-stuffed, boring games which they cut up into a bunch of crappy, overpriced DLC, imagining all the while that they are masters of storytelling, when in fact they've just been telling the same poorly written story over and over again for more than a decade.

Silly, right?

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ActicEdge

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#2 ActicEdge
Member since 2008 • 24492 Posts

OMG, this is sooo funny. Welcome done, well done :lol:

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Sotonian_Rebel

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#3 Sotonian_Rebel
Member since 2006 • 371 Posts

I dont think you will get many people disagreeing with you to be honest

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DarkLink77

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#4 DarkLink77
Member since 2004 • 32731 Posts

Oh, this is gonna be good.

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Fossil-

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#5 Fossil-
Member since 2006 • 351 Posts
Good troll article but Sotonian is right, most people will probably think you're serious and agree with you.
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drinkerofjuice

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#6 drinkerofjuice
Member since 2007 • 4567 Posts
Bravo! Bra-****ing-vo!
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Led_poison

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#7 Led_poison
Member since 2004 • 10146 Posts

Wait wait,A wrpg gives you more options than a TPS

SHUT

DOWN

EVERYTHING.

Overall it's just a damn shame that BioWare, even after all these years, remain the best storytellers in gaming.

I guess the joke is on me for comparing BioWare with a crappy studio that releases filler-stuffed, boring games which they cut up into a bunch of crappy, overpriced DLC, imagining all the while that they are masters of storytelling, when in fact they've just been telling the same poorly written story over and over again for more than a decade.

Silly, right?

jethrovegas

The ironing is delicious

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Vari3ty

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#8 Vari3ty
Member since 2009 • 11111 Posts

Sorry, any Rockstar game > Dragon Age 2.

/thread

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DarkLink77

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#9 DarkLink77
Member since 2004 • 32731 Posts

Wait wait,A wrpg gives you more options than a TPS

SHUT

DOWN

EVERYTHING.

Led_poison

:lol:

That was pretty good.

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Zero5000X

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#10 Zero5000X
Member since 2004 • 8314 Posts
CD Projekt RED beats both of them.
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Vari3ty

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#11 Vari3ty
Member since 2009 • 11111 Posts

Overall it's just a damn shame that Rockstar, even after all these years, remain the best storytellers in gaming.

I guess the joke is on me for comparingRockstar with a crappy studio that releases filler-stuffed, boring games which they cut up into a bunch of crappy, overpriced DLC, imagining all the while that they are masters of storytelling, when in fact they've just been telling the same poorly written story over and over again for more than a decade.

Silly, right?jethrovegas

Fixed. It's the other way around.

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ghostofzabis

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#13 ghostofzabis
Member since 2005 • 2601 Posts

I don't know whether this is sarcasm or irony anymore... Both, perhaps?

or flamebait

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jethrovegas

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#14 jethrovegas
Member since 2007 • 5103 Posts

[QUOTE="jethrovegas"]

Overall it's just a damn shame that Rockstar, even after all these years, remain the best storytellers in gaming.

I guess the joke is on me for comparingRockstar with a crappy studio that releases filler-stuffed, boring games which they cut up into a bunch of crappy, overpriced DLC, imagining all the while that they are masters of storytelling, when in fact they've just been telling the same poorly written story over and over again for more than a decade.

Silly, right?Vari3ty

Fixed. It's the other way around.

Flipping my words around won't change the content of my argument.

CD Projekt RED beats both of them.Zero5000X

...yeah, OK. Next time I want to play as a white-haired emo dude whose job title is one noun force-fed into another, I'll let you know.

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savagetwinkie

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#15 savagetwinkie
Member since 2008 • 7981 Posts
wait because there is no sex, its bad story telling? Unrelated... because you don't assemble a team its bad story telling? Still unrelated.... Bad writing because its linear? I hate to tell you this but the goal wasn't about getting lots of branching dialogue... Sounds like you would have been happy if you assembled a team like a swat team or something, ran into a building shooting everyone up, then when you found a hostage are able to talk about random things with her so you could wooo her, see her bra during a sex scene. That must be good writing there!
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Vari3ty

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#16 Vari3ty
Member since 2009 • 11111 Posts

Here's a thread you should check out that I just found next to your topic! Unfortunately it appears Bioware isn't so great either.

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savagetwinkie

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#17 savagetwinkie
Member since 2008 • 7981 Posts
[QUOTE="Led_poison"]

Wait wait,A wrpg gives you more options than a TPS

SHUT

DOWN

EVERYTHING.

I just want to point out, there isn't a lot of shooting, its more of a third person detective game where there is some shooting, chasing, driving involved, with lots of interrogation. The writing is excellant for what they are trying to achieve and trying to pick out when someone is lieing is actually a really cool feature in a video game.
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MrSelf-Destruct

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#18 MrSelf-Destruct
Member since 2010 • 13400 Posts
Lol. 10/10 dude. Classic. Funny thing is that when it comes to your first point Fable is the superior game by miles.
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MrSelf-Destruct

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#19 MrSelf-Destruct
Member since 2010 • 13400 Posts
I can't believe some of you guys are actually missing the irony here.
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DarkLink77

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#20 DarkLink77
Member since 2004 • 32731 Posts
I can't believe some of you guys are actually missing the irony here. MrSelf-Destruct
Ssh! Don't tell them! :P
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Dark4ever01

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#21 Dark4ever01
Member since 2004 • 321 Posts

[QUOTE="Led_poison"]

Wait wait,A wrpg gives you more options than a TPS

SHUT

DOWN

EVERYTHING.

Da_lil_PimP

Sorry, any Rockstar game > Dragon Age 2.

/thread

Vari3ty

lol



I know right?

And I thought I was slow...

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dramaybaz

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#22 dramaybaz
Member since 2005 • 6020 Posts
White haired emo dude? WT..
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Vesica_Prime

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#23 Vesica_Prime
Member since 2009 • 7062 Posts

You can impregnate Anders?! GAME OF THE ****ING YEAR RIGHT THERE.

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StealthSting

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#24 StealthSting
Member since 2006 • 6915 Posts

"In BioWare games you get to choose from three, hell, maybe four options, and then get the same response."

It's so true, it's hilarious :lol:.

I give it a 7/10. I still feel you could have done a better job, sorry. But it was good, don't get me wrong XD.

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Ace6301

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#25 Ace6301
Member since 2005 • 21389 Posts
10/10 will watch for future contributions.
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MrSelf-Destruct

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#26 MrSelf-Destruct
Member since 2010 • 13400 Posts

You can impregnate Anders?! GAME OF THE ****ING YEAR RIGHT THERE.

Vesica_Prime
If that's what it takes to shut him up.. I'd gladly do it. Anders went from being the best character in Awakening to one of the worst character in DA2. I'm not just talking about what he did, either. He was just a terribly whiny and annoying character the whole time. Made him impossible to sympathize with. Especially when he got all jealous of Merrill and started talking s***. I like girls, dude! Get off me! :P
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Vesica_Prime

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#27 Vesica_Prime
Member since 2009 • 7062 Posts

[QUOTE="Vesica_Prime"]

You can impregnate Anders?! GAME OF THE ****ING YEAR RIGHT THERE.

MrSelf-Destruct

If that's what it takes to shut him up.. I'd gladly do it. Anders went from being the best character in Awakening to one of the worst character in DA2. I'm not just talking about what he did, either. He was just a terribly whiny and annoying character the whole time. Made him impossible to sympathize with. Especially when he got all jealous of Merrill and started talking s***. I like girls, dude! Get off me! :P

You're just jealous because Anders is the hottest chick in DA2! :P

...Anders is a girl right?

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Avian005

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#28 Avian005
Member since 2009 • 4112 Posts

Oh, this is gonna be good.

DarkLink77

This is gonna be sad...too.

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MrSelf-Destruct

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#29 MrSelf-Destruct
Member since 2010 • 13400 Posts

[QUOTE="MrSelf-Destruct"][QUOTE="Vesica_Prime"]

You can impregnate Anders?! GAME OF THE ****ING YEAR RIGHT THERE.

Vesica_Prime

If that's what it takes to shut him up.. I'd gladly do it. Anders went from being the best character in Awakening to one of the worst character in DA2. I'm not just talking about what he did, either. He was just a terribly whiny and annoying character the whole time. Made him impossible to sympathize with. Especially when he got all jealous of Merrill and started talking s***. I like girls, dude! Get off me! :P

You're just jealous because Anders is the hottest chick in DA2! :P

...Anders is a girl right?

Heh. Might as well be. :P
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jethrovegas

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#30 jethrovegas
Member since 2007 • 5103 Posts

White haired emo dude? WT..dramaybaz

Yeah, what would you call him?

I mean, clearly he can't compete with characters like Zevran; just look at his face, into his eyes.

lol

Oh, his eyes! Almost... doe-like...

[spoiler] l [/spoiler]

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Krelian-co

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#31 Krelian-co
Member since 2006 • 13274 Posts

Sorry, any Rockstar game > Dragon Age 2.

/thread

Vari3ty

and Dragon Age 1, kotor > any rockstar game

i know its sarcastic but its too nonsense to compare a rpg with action games...

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Arach666

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#32 Arach666
Member since 2009 • 23261 Posts
Kudos Jethro,you made me laugh. :lol:
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MrSelf-Destruct

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#33 MrSelf-Destruct
Member since 2010 • 13400 Posts

[QUOTE="dramaybaz"]White haired emo dude? WT..jethrovegas

Yeah, what would you call him?

I mean, clearly he can't compete with characters like Zevran; just look at his face, into his eyes.

I couldn't help myself... sorry... :P

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Da_lil_PimP

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#34 Da_lil_PimP
Member since 2006 • 4241 Posts

"In BioWare games you get to choose from three, hell, maybe four options, and then get the same response."

It's so true, it's hilarious :lol:.

I give it a 7/10. I still feel you could have done a better job, sorry. But it was good, don't get me wrong XD.

StealthSting
I had a good chuckle at that part :lol:
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TREAL_Since

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#35 TREAL_Since
Member since 2005 • 11946 Posts

What a great OP. I chuckled for real at the dialogue options line. Kidding aside, I like both, but Read Dead Redepmtion has resonated with me more emotionally than any Bioware game. I still like both for what they offer.

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CoolSkAGuy

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#36 CoolSkAGuy
Member since 2006 • 9665 Posts
I don't even know the name of the protagonist in GTA III haha
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Ace6301

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#37 Ace6301
Member since 2005 • 21389 Posts
I don't even know the name of the protagonist in GTA III hahaCoolSkAGuy
It's only ever said once in GTA:SA in a phone call you can easily miss. It's Claude.
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funsohng

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#38 funsohng
Member since 2005 • 29976 Posts
This is absurd. And I'm the guy who was just playing Dragon Age Origins few minutes ago.
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Boomshaffted

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#39 Boomshaffted
Member since 2009 • 721 Posts
Meh, it's the truth, even though I suspect the OP is flame bait. Bioware has produced games that far outstrip anything Rockstar has done. But, I suspect a lot of this thread will be people equating Bioware with their most recent game alone, Dragon Age II...
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funsohng

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#40 funsohng
Member since 2005 • 29976 Posts
Meh, it's the truth, even though I suspect the OP is flame bait. Bioware has produced games that far outstrip anything Rockstar has done. But, I suspect a lot of this thread will be people equating Bioware with their most recent game alone, Dragon Age II...Boomshaffted
I loved Dragon Age 2, I really did, mostly for Merrill, but I did enjoy most of my 30 hour into it. But to ignore the cinematic quality of Rockstar games, especially post-San Andreas ones, is a crime. I haven't played Baldur's Gate yet so I can't comment on that, but RDR and GTA4 (and its expansions) are phenomenal in its story (and storytelling) department.
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Boomshaffted

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#41 Boomshaffted
Member since 2009 • 721 Posts
[QUOTE="Boomshaffted"]Meh, it's the truth, even though I suspect the OP is flame bait. Bioware has produced games that far outstrip anything Rockstar has done. But, I suspect a lot of this thread will be people equating Bioware with their most recent game alone, Dragon Age II...funsohng
I loved Dragon Age 2, I really did, mostly for Merrill, but I did enjoy most of my 30 hour into it. But to ignore the cinematic quality of Rockstar games, especially post-San Andreas ones, is a crime. I haven't played Baldur's Gate yet so I can't comment on that, but RDR and GTA4 (and its expansions) are phenomenal in its story (and storytelling) department.

Perhaps you could have hinted at where I even suggested one should ignore Rockstar's storytelling? I tend to be a big fan of Rockstar games, but I'd no more suggest they beats Bioware at their bread and butter than I'd suggest Bioware beats them at open world elements. Cinematics is just an element of storytelling, and probably the only area of storytelling that they beat Bioware in. When it comes to things like pacing, diversity and development of chracters, and quality of the story itself, Bioware is two steps ahead of Rockstar which has never been anything better than average in these areas. Well, perhaps better than average for the comedic elements of character development... Rockstar creates great atmosphere. Do no confuse that with great storytelling. Bioware are great storytellers. Rockstar is not on Bioware's level for storytelling. They create spectacular atmosphere and are funny as hell, but that doesn't put them ahead of a developer who has been selling games damn near on storytelling alone for over a decade and a half.
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Jynxzor

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#42 Jynxzor
Member since 2003 • 9313 Posts
But, I suspect a lot of this thread will be people equating Bioware with their most recent game alone, Dragon Age II...Boomshaffted
Your only as good as your most recent release. Do people give SE rest because XIII wasn't as good as it's previous releases? Do people give Capcom a pass because RE4 was cool even if RE5 was a clusterbomb of fail? Hell if anything you get more hate if you release a dud because of the expectations and standards you as a developer have set. Oh and epic lulz to the OP, good show Jethro...it's true I sometimes get lost in Anders eyes...like a deer in the headlights.
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Arach666

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#43 Arach666
Member since 2009 • 23261 Posts

[QUOTE="Boomshaffted"] But, I suspect a lot of this thread will be people equating Bioware with their most recent game alone, Dragon Age II...Jynxzor
Your only as good as your most recent release. Do people give SE rest because XIII wasn't as good as it's previous releases?

Well,let´s not forget that shortly after that,they also released one of the worst MMO´s ever made. :)

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funsohng

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#44 funsohng
Member since 2005 • 29976 Posts
[QUOTE="funsohng"][QUOTE="Boomshaffted"]Meh, it's the truth, even though I suspect the OP is flame bait. Bioware has produced games that far outstrip anything Rockstar has done. But, I suspect a lot of this thread will be people equating Bioware with their most recent game alone, Dragon Age II...Boomshaffted
I loved Dragon Age 2, I really did, mostly for Merrill, but I did enjoy most of my 30 hour into it. But to ignore the cinematic quality of Rockstar games, especially post-San Andreas ones, is a crime. I haven't played Baldur's Gate yet so I can't comment on that, but RDR and GTA4 (and its expansions) are phenomenal in its story (and storytelling) department.

Perhaps you could have hinted at where I even suggested one should ignore Rockstar's storytelling? I tend to be a big fan of Rockstar games, but I'd no more suggest they beats Bioware at their bread and butter than I'd suggest Bioware beats them at open world elements. Cinematics is just an element of storytelling, and probably the only area of storytelling that they beat Bioware in. When it comes to things like pacing, diversity and development of chracters, and quality of the story itself, Bioware is two steps ahead of Rockstar which has never been anything better than average in these areas. Well, perhaps better than average for the comedic elements of character development... Rockstar creates great atmosphere. Do no confuse that with great storytelling. Bioware are great storytellers. Rockstar is not on Bioware's level for storytelling. They create spectacular atmosphere and are funny as hell, but that doesn't put them ahead of a developer who has been selling games damn near on storytelling alone for over a decade and a half.

I would consider atmospheres have big impact on storytelling. As for the pacing, idk, it's RPG so it's bound to be little more broken up compared to linear game like Rockstar's. As for the quality of the story itself.... I still find Rockstar up there with Bioware. The development of characters, again, it's little harder in non-linear RPGs, and Rockstar's games have been quite well with it. I haven't played LA Noire to completion yet, and I think it's one of the Rockstar games that falls a little short when it comes to overarching storyline, but RDR and GTA4 (TBoGT especially), has been great with all the stuff you mentioned. If you don't agree with me, then you don't, I have no intention to argue with you in such subjective matter, but all I'm saying is, Rockstar is, in my opion, good at storytelling. And I actually find Bioware games funnier. Weird...
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finalfantasy94

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#45 finalfantasy94
Member since 2004 • 27435 Posts

This was indeed very well done thread TC bravo:lol:

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Krelian-co

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#47 Krelian-co
Member since 2006 • 13274 Posts

[QUOTE="Jynxzor"][QUOTE="Boomshaffted"] But, I suspect a lot of this thread will be people equating Bioware with their most recent game alone, Dragon Age II...Boomshaffted

Your only as good as your most recent release. Do people give SE rest because XIII wasn't as good as it's previous releases? Do people give Capcom a pass because RE4 was cool even if RE5 was a clusterbomb of fail? Hell if anything you get more hate if you release a dud because of the expectations and standards you as a developer have set. Oh and epic lulz to the OP, good show Jethro...it's true I sometimes get lost in Anders eyes...like a deer in the headlights.

I'm amazed a poster with your long history is spouting such idiocy - and actually seems to mean/believe it too. With major developers who have multiple teams working on multiple games simultaneously, you *really* believe that a company like Bioware is only as good as their most recent release? Particularly when they have absolutely stellar games released by some of their teams in very recent memory? I suppose Rockstar was only as good as Bully for a good stretch because some development team they owned - which was actually based in another city and another country - was the one that made it and not one of their main teams? Obviously not.

The Dragon Age team is not Bioware, and it's not like they produced ME2 and then turned up the suck and cranked out DA2 in short order. Bioware has an A team and a B team. As for your comment about "do people give Capcom a pass"... Actually, most people are smart enough to realize that Capcom is a major producer with probably close to a dozen distinct development houses working for them, and as such, they cleverly limit their statements about a particular game to the development house that made it rather than nailing criticism to the whole group. It's like saying "Universal Studios Sucks because one of their movies bombed" - ignoring the fact that they have over a dozen movies being filmed at any one time by distinctive film crews.

Bioware has minimum three teams - two working on their major titles and one MMO - and possibly more. One of those teams' last games was arguably the best told story of this generation. Rockstar has nothing to match it. Rockstar's best active team for storytelling falls well short of Bioware's best active team for storytelling.

he used sarcasm, google it, go.

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NeonNinja

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#48 NeonNinja
Member since 2005 • 17318 Posts

:lol:

When your first point to a game's story is "Where's the sex?" I can't help but think it's a joke.

This is a joke right? You even posted an image of a gay relationship with Zevran. This is a joke right? :lol:

Oh brother.... if you're serious...... Nah, nah, nah, this isa joke thread. I know it. I hope.... :P

EDIT- I have reread your post. I am now determining you to be a funny guy, Crysis 2 review not withstanding. This was awesome. Unless you're serious, but I doubt it. :P

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Jynxzor

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#49 Jynxzor
Member since 2003 • 9313 Posts
BlurbBoomshaffted
So why not give the indipendent teams the credit then instead of the whole company? Bioware REPRESENTS the products they release, and I'm not giving them a pass because one of there teams screwed up. It's not my fault that Bioware thought these guys were gold "and financially they probably are" I will still give Bioware as a whole flak for releasing such a crummy game as Dragon Age 2. Likewise with Capcom, I don't care about how many teams and series they own, when they took the Survival and Horror out of Resident Evil I got mad at Capcom the company that represents whatever jerk was responsible for that choice. When you represent a product you have to take the good AND the bad, you don't just get to dance around a failure just because it was only a "Part" of you. Thats like blaming your left brain for not being able to think of a creative solution. Companies like Capcom and Bioware and Square Enix, are all like a human body...they have multiple parts all working in tandem when one part fails the rest suffers the consequences as well. Bioware could have cast off the Dragon Age II team if they felt the outrage was enough to justify it, but they didn't, and they wont. So I will blame the entire body and not just the stray hand that tried to cop-a-feel my wallet. Bioware is the head the representing body that allows all the actions to take place. It's not like they woke up one day and were like "Hey we didn't say Press a button make something awesome happen...who was that!?" It's more like "Yeah those Dragon Age guys are gonna make us rich!" So no, I wont let the head honcho go when ultimately they are responsible for any and all actions the company takes as a whole. I don't sue the stock-boy who didn't mop the floor I sue the store.
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DraugenCP

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#50 DraugenCP
Member since 2006 • 8485 Posts

Cryostasis beats both, so I don't care.