Regarding the Chris Hecker statement...

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flazzle

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#1 flazzle
Member since 2007 • 6507 Posts

Regarding the Chris Hecker statement, (dont quote it or this WILL GET LOCKED)
I think this guy is very smart. But this guy could barely be considered a game developer, since he has never even published one game. Not only that, this guy is not a Wii developer as you stated but a PC developer. If you look at his website, this guy is totally a pc guru expert.
Link.
Why his statement is so grating is because he basically spits in the face of developers that have made great games for GC such as RE4, Killer 7, etc. And those developers have praise for GC and even higher praise for Wii. And those guys have been in the field much longer than Hecker.
If you read Hecker's full statement,  he basically sets himself up to be exposed as a poor developer. He complains how you cant have great AI because of lack of power. But if someone does create great AI on the Wii, then it just shows Hecker isn't creative enough to work with limitations. Limitations is his biggest gripe, and if you work in the programming field long enough, you are almost ALWAYS working around limitations. Working around limitations breeds creativity, and one could argue creativity breeds art. In fact, you cant create great art without being creative.
Hecker is not a veteran game developer, even less of a verteran console developer at that. So he comes off as a big mouth and insults all past console game devlopers.

He talks about how Nintendo does not care about 'Art' or encourage it.
I couldnt disagree more with this statment. How do you argue 'Art'.
In fact, once could argue the Wii Remote brings game 'Art' to a whole new level that has never been experienced before. One could also argue the weak graphic power doesn't encourage art to be at its best. However, I think this is weak because if you don't think Van Gogh is art because of how it looks, your basically a graphic slob.

In fact, I'll argue as games get more 'realistic', art gets lost.

He does a diservice to developers of the past and all the current developers that currently develop for weaker systems.
His 'Art' statement exposes him as an uncultured fool. In fact, I can go into Target and buy shirts with Mario, Pac-Man, and Dig Dug. Those games that became art. There is point in this paragraph somewhere.

Im writing the company distributing Spore for the DS telling them I won't bother buying the game because apparently its only good for systems that can support 'art'. And I might just campaign others not do so as well.

Chris Hecker, you are smart, but stay out of the console argument until you published a few. In fact, try publishing ONE first. Get some experience before opening up your ignorant mouth.

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wooooode

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#2 wooooode
Member since 2002 • 16666 Posts
I agree 100%, expecially with the art thing.Becasuse I could have every color in the world and not make something as nice as Van Gogh with one crayon.
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Riviera_Phantom

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#3 Riviera_Phantom
Member since 2006 • 3658 Posts
He does make a good point about the design/CPU aspect of Wii, Nintendo want to focus making fun simple games, while that's good for attracting new and non gamers it will leave Core gamers in the red with just Nintendo games...which will only satisfy Nintendo fans = GC all over again. 3rd party devs will try to make good software but it will sell like crap decreasing chances of the same input in the future..therefor 3rd party games get worse and worse.
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Son_of_Some

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#4 Son_of_Some
Member since 2006 • 1458 Posts

His statement reveals basically how childish can one be.

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88Ghost89

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#5 88Ghost89
Member since 2004 • 1618 Posts

If he thinks that the Wii can't produce art then he must have been disapointed with the lack of power from the systems before the Wii. Suddenly with the 360 and PS3 and new high end PCs, art can be achieved?

Oh, and BTW, SPM is the most artistic game I've seen so far this gen.

Also...what did he think of Okami? On the PS2s hardware?

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V_Zarnold_N

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#6 V_Zarnold_N
Member since 2006 • 1272 Posts
He does make a good point about the design/CPU aspect of Wii, Nintendo want to focus making fun simple games, while that's good for attracting new and non gamers it will leave Core gamers in the red with just Nintendo games...which will only satisfy Nintendo fans = GC all over again. 3rd party devs will try to make good software but it will sell like crap decreasing chances of the same input in the future..therefor 3rd party games get worse and worse.Riviera_Phantom
i will agree on this point. However on the topic posters remarks. I dont think a few people not buying a ds game is gonna be a dissapointment and according to you Carmack (guy at id) should also be in the same boat for saying that developing for the ps3 is too hard. These are lazy developers who dont want to learn how to do something new, which i understand. i wouldnt want to have to re-learn or learn a new way to develop after i have been doing it a number of years. i do feel however that new development is good and brings out fresher feeling games but you cant give the devs a GC and tell them to give you a 360 game and you cant give them a GBA and tell them to give you a DS game.
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flazzle

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#7 flazzle
Member since 2007 • 6507 Posts

If he thinks that the Wii can't produce art then he must have been disapointed with the lack of power from the systems before the Wii. Suddenly with the 360 and PS3 and new high end PCs, art can be achieved?

Oh, and BTW, SPM is the most artistic game I've seen so far this gen.

Also...what did he think of Okami? On the PS2s hardware?

88Ghost89
This is a great point. This is exactly what I was thinking in a previous topic posting that got locked. I asked someone what games did they consider 'Art'. They listed PS1 and PS2 games. (of course all Nintendo games were avoided...) So my next question was, 'Did these games stop becoming art at the start of next gen?'. Of course they do not. Also, Spore better have the best graphics known to mankind. Otherwise, according the Hecker, it doesn't qualify for art, and thus he disagrees with himself.
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XaosII

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#8 XaosII
Member since 2003 • 16705 Posts
I think hes perfectly right in saying so, i think the Wiii is pretty cool. Let me ask you this, knowing that the guy is a programmer, what about the Wii should make him excited as a programmer? For a programmer "art" isnt necessarily the same view that most people see.

There is art in creating a beutifually complex and flexible skeletal animation system. There is art in creating an intelligent AI system that reacts well under many circumstances. There is art in creating a great back-end tool for the level designers to be able to develop levels and areas quickly and efficiently.

So whats there to be excited about the Wii from someone that deals almost exclusively from the technical component of it?
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flazzle

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#9 flazzle
Member since 2007 • 6507 Posts
[QUOTE="Riviera_Phantom"]He does make a good point about the design/CPU aspect of Wii, Nintendo want to focus making fun simple games, while that's good for attracting new and non gamers it will leave Core gamers in the red with just Nintendo games...which will only satisfy Nintendo fans = GC all over again. 3rd party devs will try to make good software but it will sell like crap decreasing chances of the same input in the future..therefor 3rd party games get worse and worse.V_Zarnold_N
i will agree on this point. However on the topic posters remarks. I dont think a few people not buying a ds game is gonna be a dissapointment and according to you Carmack (guy at id) should also be in the same boat for saying that developing for the ps3 is too hard. These are lazy developers who dont want to learn how to do something new, which i understand. i wouldnt want to have to re-learn or learn a new way to develop after i have been doing it a number of years. i do feel however that new development is good and brings out fresher feeling games but you cant give the devs a GC and tell them to give you a 360 game and you cant give them a GBA and tell them to give you a DS game.

And I think Hecker is a lazy developer because he doesn't want to work around limitations. And your re-learn statement is interesting and valid, because a main reason Wii is similar to GC is that Nintendo did not want to change the architecture dramatically, so as develoeprs would not have to 're-learn'. MS does the same with XNA (and the devepment of Directx over the years). So if Hecker doesn't want to deal with Wii limitations, outsource it to someone who can. (though i have a feeling he only programs the PC version).
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chrisdojo

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#10 chrisdojo
Member since 2005 • 5065 Posts
he's just a hater.
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#11 V_Zarnold_N
Member since 2006 • 1272 Posts
[QUOTE="V_Zarnold_N"][QUOTE="Riviera_Phantom"]He does make a good point about the design/CPU aspect of Wii, Nintendo want to focus making fun simple games, while that's good for attracting new and non gamers it will leave Core gamers in the red with just Nintendo games...which will only satisfy Nintendo fans = GC all over again. 3rd party devs will try to make good software but it will sell like crap decreasing chances of the same input in the future..therefor 3rd party games get worse and worse.flazzle
i will agree on this point. However on the topic posters remarks. I dont think a few people not buying a ds game is gonna be a dissapointment and according to you Carmack (guy at id) should also be in the same boat for saying that developing for the ps3 is too hard. These are lazy developers who dont want to learn how to do something new, which i understand. i wouldnt want to have to re-learn or learn a new way to develop after i have been doing it a number of years. i do feel however that new development is good and brings out fresher feeling games but you cant give the devs a GC and tell them to give you a 360 game and you cant give them a GBA and tell them to give you a DS game.

And I think Hecker is a lazy developer because he doesn't want to work around limitations. And your re-learn statement is interesting and valid, because a main reason Wii is similar to GC is that Nintendo did not want to change the architecture dramatically, so as develoeprs would not have to 're-learn'. MS does the same with XNA (and the devepment of Directx over the years). So if Hecker doesn't want to deal with Wii limitations, outsource it to someone who can. (though i have a feeling he only programs the PC version).

my re-learn was aimed more towards the cell and the ps3 not so much the wii or the 360. i just remember carmack complaining about difficult programing for the ps3 however if you have played quake 4 for the 360... so its one of those if you cant do it on one console right and its awesome then dont complain about the other one
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xxThyLordxx

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#12 xxThyLordxx
Member since 2007 • 3200 Posts
:lol: this is damage control.

when Gabe Newell, a PC developer, who has never made a PlayStation game, bashed PS3 (he said PS3 is a disaster on so many levels), everyone was like he is right, PS3 is crap, PS3 is this, PS3 is that.

nevertheless, I agree, he(Hecker) is in no position to say that about the Wii.
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#13 cornelle123
Member since 2005 • 2416 Posts
I'll say that the more realistic the game, the more it's considered art. If you want to create blocky animations which swap between each other, that was art 20 years ago (classical style isn't classic style, art changes and progresses). But today, most hardware developers are pushing for systems that can give programmers the freedom of physics. At some point, yeah, the physics of some games is laughable, like Perfect Dark Zero, but other games have a better focus on physics (even sometimes over textures and polygon count). Shadow of the Colossus and Okami are art for two different reasons, but I wouldn't want to have to play another Okami when there has been a shift in hardware development - parallel processors, physics chips, and nice GPU developments too. 

  Between the ps2 and the ps3 (or xbox to 360), there is a transitional phrase for adding new talent to the developer's roster.  Bash on RE 4, of course, since no chainsaw will stop just because an enemy has grabbed me before the chain saw dude could have sliced off my head.  It's a bit stupid to continue this animation swapping gameplay mechanics for the next generation - that's why RE 5 wouldn't have a place on the wii console.  RE 5 wants to have a physics system, such as so many games, including gems like MGS 4, Motorstorm and F.E.A.R.  Maybe some games that continue to have animation issues will have better textures than these other games, but the graphics also include animations.  If I can't injury the person who is chainsawing a teammate down, I have to wonder what other corners developers are cutting in order to remove the realism of animation to support the realism of textures. 

  Enough developers are looking at both sides of the argument.  But textures are mostly used for eye candy and physics is used for gameplay.
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magus-21

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#14 magus-21
Member since 2006 • 2868 Posts
:lol: this is damage control.

when Gabe Newell, a PC developer, who has never made a PlayStation game, bashed PS3 (he said PS3 is a disaster on so many levels), everyone was like he is right, PS3 is crap, PS3 is this, PS3 is that.

nevertheless, I agree, he(Hecker) is in no position to say that about the Wii.
xxThyLordxx
Chris Hecker is a bouncing programmer who has never completed a single game project in his life. Gabe Newell is the successful founder of Valve and co-creator of one of if not THE greatest FPS ever created (not just a developer, but one of the originators of the game) and one of the best online services ever created. There's quite a bit of difference between the two.
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orangeonxbox

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#15 orangeonxbox
Member since 2005 • 429 Posts
he mentions 'sega's new console using a 3 D chip, and the article has a copyright of 1998...... it look's 9 years old to me? The raw layout in HTML supports that too..
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XaosII

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#16 XaosII
Member since 2003 • 16705 Posts
[QUOTE="V_Zarnold_N"] my re-learn was aimed more towards the cell and the ps3 not so much the wii or the 360. i just remember carmack complaining about difficult programing for the ps3 however if you have played quake 4 for the 360... so its one of those if you cant do it on one console right and its awesome then dont complain about the other one



Quake 4 is made by Raven. id software is where Carmack is and had nothing to do with the Quake 4 port and probably very little to do with Quake 4's development.

Curious though. Tim Sweeney, the main man behind the UE3 engine is of similar opinion to Carmack and Newell. I dont see anyone bashing him. I dont even see how any bashing is warranted considering each of these big name guys are making games for consoles anyways. They simply express their distaste for it, but that doesnt stop them from still gritting through. So from where is this "lazy developer" accusation justified?


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tocool340

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#17 tocool340
Member since 2004 • 21652 Posts
I guess it's safe to say that he didn't play Wind Waker on the GC before as that game has some of the best art-work I've ever seen. And Twilight Princess is also beautiful for a GCgame.....
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Ryusuken

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#18 Ryusuken
Member since 2003 • 467 Posts

[QUOTE="xxThyLordxx"]:lol: this is damage control.

when Gabe Newell, a PC developer, who has never made a PlayStation game, bashed PS3 (he said PS3 is a disaster on so many levels), everyone was like he is right, PS3 is crap, PS3 is this, PS3 is that.

nevertheless, I agree, he(Hecker) is in no position to say that about the Wii.
magus-21
Chris Hecker is a bouncing programmer who has never completed a single game project in his life. Gabe Newell is the successful founder of Valve and co-creator of one of if not THE greatest FPS ever created (not just a developer, but one of the originators of the game) and one of the best online services ever created. There's quite a bit of difference between the two.

They are different in their notority in the development community, but both are developers, so in this aspect they are the same. If you are so intented in disregarding the statement Hecker delivered, so you should the Newel's one as well. Double standart FTW!

PS-both developers show great immaturity in their statements, btw.

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magus-21

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#19 magus-21
Member since 2006 • 2868 Posts

[QUOTE="magus-21"][QUOTE="xxThyLordxx"]:lol: this is damage control.

when Gabe Newell, a PC developer, who has never made a PlayStation game, bashed PS3 (he said PS3 is a disaster on so many levels), everyone was like he is right, PS3 is crap, PS3 is this, PS3 is that.

nevertheless, I agree, he(Hecker) is in no position to say that about the Wii.
Ryusuken

Chris Hecker is a bouncing programmer who has never completed a single game project in his life. Gabe Newell is the successful founder of Valve and co-creator of one of if not THE greatest FPS ever created (not just a developer, but one of the originators of the game) and one of the best online services ever created. There's quite a bit of difference between the two.

They are different in their notority in the development community, but both are developers, so in this aspect they are the same. If you are so intented in disregarding the statement Hecker delivered, so you should the Newel's one as well. Double standart FTW!

PS-both developers show great immaturity in their statements, btw.

I made a blackjack game in C++ back in high school. That makes me a game developer too, technically speaking. Does my opinion count equally as Hecker and Newell? Damn skippy hell no it doesn't. Anyone can have any opinion they please, but when it comes to actually being an authority on a subject, I dunno, I guess I just think that the opinion of the co-creator of the best-selling FPS of all time beats out a programmer who hops-skips-and-jumps from job to job.
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xxThyLordxx

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#20 xxThyLordxx
Member since 2007 • 3200 Posts
[QUOTE="Ryusuken"]

[QUOTE="magus-21"][QUOTE="xxThyLordxx"]:lol: this is damage control.

when Gabe Newell, a PC developer, who has never made a PlayStation game, bashed PS3 (he said PS3 is a disaster on so many levels), everyone was like he is right, PS3 is crap, PS3 is this, PS3 is that.

nevertheless, I agree, he(Hecker) is in no position to say that about the Wii.
magus-21

Chris Hecker is a bouncing programmer who has never completed a single game project in his life. Gabe Newell is the successful founder of Valve and co-creator of one of if not THE greatest FPS ever created (not just a developer, but one of the originators of the game) and one of the best online services ever created. There's quite a bit of difference between the two.

They are different in their notority in the development community, but both are developers, so in this aspect they are the same. If you are so intented in disregarding the statement Hecker delivered, so you should the Newel's one as well. Double standart FTW!

PS-both developers show great immaturity in their statements, btw.

I made a blackjack game in C++ back in high school. That makes me a game developer too, technically speaking. Does my opinion count equally as Hecker and Newell? Damn skippy hell no it doesn't. Anyone can have any opinion they please, but when it comes to actually being an authority on a subject, I dunno, I guess I just think that the opinion of the co-creator of the best-selling FPS of all time beats out a programmer who hops-skips-and-jumps from job to job.



so what are you saying, Gabe's statement is right and Hecker's statement is wrong?
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magus-21

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#21 magus-21
Member since 2006 • 2868 Posts
[QUOTE="magus-21"][QUOTE="Ryusuken"]

[QUOTE="magus-21"][QUOTE="xxThyLordxx"]:lol: this is damage control.

when Gabe Newell, a PC developer, who has never made a PlayStation game, bashed PS3 (he said PS3 is a disaster on so many levels), everyone was like he is right, PS3 is crap, PS3 is this, PS3 is that.

nevertheless, I agree, he(Hecker) is in no position to say that about the Wii.
xxThyLordxx

Chris Hecker is a bouncing programmer who has never completed a single game project in his life. Gabe Newell is the successful founder of Valve and co-creator of one of if not THE greatest FPS ever created (not just a developer, but one of the originators of the game) and one of the best online services ever created. There's quite a bit of difference between the two.

They are different in their notority in the development community, but both are developers, so in this aspect they are the same. If you are so intented in disregarding the statement Hecker delivered, so you should the Newel's one as well. Double standart FTW!

PS-both developers show great immaturity in their statements, btw.

I made a blackjack game in C++ back in high school. That makes me a game developer too, technically speaking. Does my opinion count equally as Hecker and Newell? Damn skippy hell no it doesn't. Anyone can have any opinion they please, but when it comes to actually being an authority on a subject, I dunno, I guess I just think that the opinion of the co-creator of the best-selling FPS of all time beats out a programmer who hops-skips-and-jumps from job to job.



so what are you saying, Gabe's statement is right and Hecker's statement is wrong?

No, I'm saying that you should read both their statements in completely different contexts, and disregarding one statement without disregarding the other isn't hypocrisy. If Gabe Newell had been the one two make both statements, or if Hecker had been the one to make both statements, THEN it would be hypocrisy. Also keep in mind that Newell's an executive, too, so he was looking at the PS3 as both a developer AND a businessman. There are many more ways to interpret Newell's statement than there are ways to interpret Hecker's statement.
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xxThyLordxx

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#22 xxThyLordxx
Member since 2007 • 3200 Posts
[QUOTE="xxThyLordxx"][QUOTE="magus-21"][QUOTE="Ryusuken"]

[QUOTE="magus-21"][QUOTE="xxThyLordxx"]:lol: this is damage control.

when Gabe Newell, a PC developer, who has never made a PlayStation game, bashed PS3 (he said PS3 is a disaster on so many levels), everyone was like he is right, PS3 is crap, PS3 is this, PS3 is that.

nevertheless, I agree, he(Hecker) is in no position to say that about the Wii.
magus-21

Chris Hecker is a bouncing programmer who has never completed a single game project in his life. Gabe Newell is the successful founder of Valve and co-creator of one of if not THE greatest FPS ever created (not just a developer, but one of the originators of the game) and one of the best online services ever created. There's quite a bit of difference between the two.

They are different in their notority in the development community, but both are developers, so in this aspect they are the same. If you are so intented in disregarding the statement Hecker delivered, so you should the Newel's one as well. Double standart FTW!

PS-both developers show great immaturity in their statements, btw.

I made a blackjack game in C++ back in high school. That makes me a game developer too, technically speaking. Does my opinion count equally as Hecker and Newell? Damn skippy hell no it doesn't. Anyone can have any opinion they please, but when it comes to actually being an authority on a subject, I dunno, I guess I just think that the opinion of the co-creator of the best-selling FPS of all time beats out a programmer who hops-skips-and-jumps from job to job.



so what are you saying, Gabe's statement is right and Hecker's statement is wrong?

No, I'm saying that you should read both their statements in completely different contexts, and disregarding one statement without disregarding the other isn't hypocrisy. If Gabe Newell had been the one two make both statements, or if Hecker had been the one to make both statements, THEN it would be hypocrisy. Also keep in mind that Newell's an executive, too, so he was looking at the PS3 as both a developer AND a businessman. There are many more ways to interpret Newell's statement than there are ways to interpret Hecker's statement.



be a man and say what you want to say.
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Ryusuken

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#23 Ryusuken
Member since 2003 • 467 Posts
[QUOTE="Ryusuken"]

[QUOTE="magus-21"][QUOTE="xxThyLordxx"]:lol: this is damage control.

when Gabe Newell, a PC developer, who has never made a PlayStation game, bashed PS3 (he said PS3 is a disaster on so many levels), everyone was like he is right, PS3 is crap, PS3 is this, PS3 is that.

nevertheless, I agree, he(Hecker) is in no position to say that about the Wii.
magus-21

Chris Hecker is a bouncing programmer who has never completed a single game project in his life. Gabe Newell is the successful founder of Valve and co-creator of one of if not THE greatest FPS ever created (not just a developer, but one of the originators of the game) and one of the best online services ever created. There's quite a bit of difference between the two.

They are different in their notority in the development community, but both are developers, so in this aspect they are the same. If you are so intented in disregarding the statement Hecker delivered, so you should the Newel's one as well. Double standart FTW!

PS-both developers show great immaturity in their statements, btw.

I made a blackjack game in C++ back in high school. That makes me a game developer too, technically speaking. Does my opinion count equally as Hecker and Newell? Damn skippy hell no it doesn't. Anyone can have any opinion they please, but when it comes to actually being an authority on a subject, I dunno, I guess I just think that the opinion of the co-creator of the best-selling FPS of all time beats out a programmer who hops-skips-and-jumps from job to job.

Everyone has a right to have their own opinions, thats a fact. Both are developers, so both have the same weight, per say, to me. The fact that one is a well know developer and the other isnt matters nothing to me. Specially if they are talking **** about something they are not working on it. Karmack for example. He says PS3 development is a "pain in his ***", he is not bashing it, directly, but is complaining that is difficult, a dare he is not likely to take, and saying so made a lot of others developers go along with him, and so a lot of fanboys with them. If you do not believe that your opinion as a developer matter, im sorry for you, for it does matter, once you're working for a platform and knows about what are you talking, all that hard work you had to achieve something. Im not sure if Gabe is working on a game for PS3. If he is, them IMO is immaturity to bash his own work, or showing lasiness (a la Karmack, his statement shows lack of will to work on something new, hard to develop for, something some developers look for with great interest). If he isnt working on the PS3 development team, he has no right to say anything about without sounding like a lasy *** developer IMO.

Simple as that. Both sounds immature for me, so both statements weight the same.

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#24 Darthmatt
Member since 2002 • 8970 Posts
Lazy developer wannabe. I know people complain about the wiis power, but it was clear from the start that it wouldnt be some amazing work horse. It doesnt mean that developers cannot make good games for it. The problem right now is, wii 3rd party games suffer from a lack of polish. Well, think about this. If you are a game development company you have some tough choices right now. Naturally you'll want to get a project going for the 360 or PS3, but it will cost you a lot of money to license development software (U3 = $300k), or even more money to make your own. So, developers are pumping a lot of $$ into next gen development tool wich leaves the wii in a tough spot. A developer could build a newer engine that coudl take better advantage of the wii hardware, or they could just use the older development software they already payed for. Since a lot of studios are investing big bucks into nextgen software licenses, the wii projects are getting left with the scraps. This is the true downs side of the wii being so under powerd compared to its two rivals.
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flazzle

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#25 flazzle
Member since 2007 • 6507 Posts
I would never complain about a system 'not being powerful enough' for a 'too hard to program'. Because if someone pumps out something impressive in either case to prove you wrong, it makes you look like a chump.
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magus-21

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#26 magus-21
Member since 2006 • 2868 Posts
[QUOTE="magus-21"][QUOTE="Ryusuken"]

[QUOTE="magus-21"][QUOTE="xxThyLordxx"]:lol: this is damage control.

when Gabe Newell, a PC developer, who has never made a PlayStation game, bashed PS3 (he said PS3 is a disaster on so many levels), everyone was like he is right, PS3 is crap, PS3 is this, PS3 is that.

nevertheless, I agree, he(Hecker) is in no position to say that about the Wii.
Ryusuken

Chris Hecker is a bouncing programmer who has never completed a single game project in his life. Gabe Newell is the successful founder of Valve and co-creator of one of if not THE greatest FPS ever created (not just a developer, but one of the originators of the game) and one of the best online services ever created. There's quite a bit of difference between the two.

They are different in their notority in the development community, but both are developers, so in this aspect they are the same. If you are so intented in disregarding the statement Hecker delivered, so you should the Newel's one as well. Double standart FTW!

PS-both developers show great immaturity in their statements, btw.

I made a blackjack game in C++ back in high school. That makes me a game developer too, technically speaking. Does my opinion count equally as Hecker and Newell? Damn skippy hell no it doesn't. Anyone can have any opinion they please, but when it comes to actually being an authority on a subject, I dunno, I guess I just think that the opinion of the co-creator of the best-selling FPS of all time beats out a programmer who hops-skips-and-jumps from job to job.

Everyone has a right to have their own opinions, thats a fact. Both are developers, so both have the same weight, per say, to me. The fact that one is a well know developer and the other isnt matters nothing to me. Specially if they are talking **** about something they are not working on it. Karmack for example. He says PS3 development is a "pain in his ***", he is not bashing it, directly, but is complaining that is difficult, a dare he is not likely to take, and saying so made a lot of others developers go along with him, and so a lot of fanboys with them. If you do not believe that your opinion as a developer matter, im sorry for you, for it does matter, once you're working for a platform and knows about what are you talking, all that hard work you had to achieve something. Im not sure if Gabe is working on a game for PS3. If he is, them IMO is immaturity to bash his own work, or showing lasiness (a la Karmack, his statement shows lack of will to work on something new, hard to develop for, something some developers look for with great interest). If he isnt working on the PS3 development team, he has no right to say anything about without sounding like a lasy *** developer IMO.

Simple as that. Both sounds immature for me, so both statements weight the same.

Valve is working on HL2 Episode 2 for the PS3, 360, and PC, remember?
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AdrianWerner

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#27 AdrianWerner
Member since 2003 • 28441 Posts
Sheeps are just angry because he's absolutely right.
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godhandiscen

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#28 godhandiscen
Member since 2003 • 3454 Posts
I totally agree with him. He has the courage to say what many developers are thinking.
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V_Zarnold_N

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#29 V_Zarnold_N
Member since 2006 • 1272 Posts
XaosII wrote:V_Zarnold_N wrote: my re-learn was aimed more towards the cell and the ps3 not so much the wii or the 360. i just remember carmack complaining about difficult programing for the ps3 however if you have played quake 4 for the 360... so its one of those if you cant do it on one console right and its awesome then dont complain about the other one

Quake 4 is made by Raven. id software is where Carmack is and had nothing to do with the Quake 4 port and probably very little to do with Quake 4's development.

Curious though. Tim Sweeney, the main man behind the UE3 engine is of similar opinion to Carmack and Newell. I dont see anyone bashing him. I dont even see how any bashing is warranted considering each of these big name guys are making games for consoles anyways. They simply express their distaste for it, but that doesnt stop them from still gritting through. So from where is this "lazy developer" accusation justified?


in the sense that they **** about it all day as if they have a say so... they get paid so the should just shut up and do it. if somebody built your house would you want to listen to them complain about the way they decided to build it especially because you are paying them to do their own damn job? its like athletes going on strike they get paid more than teachers, doctors, lawyers, scientists, and yet they still complain its the samething you have the small time devs who dont say a thing and then you have so called big shots yelling about something when all they need to do is shut up and make the game the best they know how. ****ing about something isnt gonna make things better
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venture00

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#30 venture00
Member since 2004 • 1060 Posts
I totally agree with him. He has the courage to say what many developers are thinking. godhandiscen


are u inside their minds?
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fartgorilla

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#31 fartgorilla
Member since 2005 • 785 Posts
He's obviously just trying to get attention so people will buy his games. You make several excellent points disputing what he said.
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#32 XaosII
Member since 2003 • 16705 Posts
in the sense that they **** about it all day as if they have a say so... they get paid so the should just shut up and do it. if somebody built your house would you want to listen to them complain about the way they decided to build it especially because you are paying them to do their own damn job? its like athletes going on strike they get paid more than teachers, doctors, lawyers, scientists, and yet they still complain its the samething you have the small time devs who dont say a thing and then you have so called big shots yelling about something when all they need to do is shut up and make the game the best they know how. ****ing about something isnt gonna make things better V_Zarnold_N


Because them ranting at a conference meant for game developers, that is entirely your choice if you want to read about the event, is the exact same thing as a construction worker going up to you and forcing you to listen to his ranting?

Yeah... I can totally see the similarities in that.

So you've not once talked to your co-workers or family about the problems at your job? Do you take it in stride like an obedient little dog at your job and not once mention the negatives of it? I doubt it. Heres a conference specifically for game developers to talk about game development - NOT a conference for gamers about gaming. Get the difference? Its their show and they talk and rant about whatever the hell they want.
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#33 laez
Member since 2006 • 277 Posts

His statement reveals basically how childish can one be.

Son_of_Some
as does your sig.
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FireEmblem_Man

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#34 FireEmblem_Man
Member since 2004 • 20251 Posts
For those agreeing with Hecker, he's right that the Wii is underpower, but what do you have to say about God of War II or Halo 2??? Both are great looking games especially GoWII for pushing the limits of the PS2 yet it is claim as a work of art!!! The Wii can clearly push graphically good looking games, just not 360 and PS3 quality.