Pushing for 4K is "useless," says the creator of Limbo and Inside

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Vaeh

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#1 Vaeh
Member since 2016 • 575 Posts

Dino Patti, co-founder of the teams responsible for Limbo and Somerville, raised the issue of 4K resolution in games. In his opinion, 4K gaming doesn’t interest game developers and is just another tech upgrade being flogged by manufacturers to sell consoles and hardware.

Who needs 4K resolution in video games? Such a question was clearly asked during this year's edition of Reboot Develop, which took place last week. One of the developers present at the conference considered it appropriate to raise this issue (after VG247). Dino Patti, co-founder of Playdead (Limbo, Inside) and Jumpship (Somerville), described 4K as a "useless" technology, pushed by vendors to encourage the purchase of new consoles. He compared it to the situation with Microsoft's Kinect, who, as he said, forced the creators to make many bad (to put it mildly) games for this device:

“I think it [4k in video games - author's note] is useless. It’s something that’s being pushed by tech vendors to push the next console. [Hardware manufacturers] don’t respect the natural evolution of games and you force technology. [Just like] Microsoft with Kinect, they paid studios to make a lot of shitty games."

His words were supported by other independent creators present at the conference, such as Chet Faliszek, a former Valve employee (where he worked as a writer for Portal, Left 4 Dead and Half-Life 2). For him, faithful representation of the world does not change games in any significant way. New business models, such as Apple Arcade, are already more important, according to the creator's words, allowing to "make single-player mobile games where you couldn’t before". Guomundur Hallgrímsson from Klang Games said his team had given up graphical fidelity in favour of simpler visuals in the upcoming Seed and is pleased that other independent artists are seeing his approach:

“We went for a super-simplistic art style because the battle for higher fidelity graphics is something for a handful of really big studios to fight over. [...] “When it comes to graphics, if you’re really dedicated to a game, normally you lower all settings in order to get the maximum performance. So I don’t really care about graphics. At the end of the day the gameplay is always key."

Dino Patti is working with Chris Olsen (did work on Age of Ultron and Edge Of Tomorrow) on Somerville.

Art from the upcoming title currently in development from Playdead. I'm expecting another GOTG caliber game from them.

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Subspecies

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#2 Subspecies  Online
Member since 2018 • 899 Posts

Wake me up when the dude actually makes a game where 4k graphics matter.

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VFighter

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#3 VFighter
Member since 2016 • 5547 Posts

I'm completely happy with 1080, I'd be way more interested if they would bring back tube style HDTV's and get rid of LCD/led/etc. That would be a much bigger improvement them 4k.

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Zero_epyon

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#4 Zero_epyon
Member since 2004 • 13485 Posts
@vfighter said:

I'm completely happy with 1080, I'd be way more interested if they would bring back tube style HDTV's and get rid of LCD/led/etc. That would be a much bigger improvement them 4k.

Why?

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mandzilla

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#5 mandzilla  Moderator  Online
Member since 2017 • 4246 Posts

@Zero_epyon said:
@vfighter said:

I'm completely happy with 1080, I'd be way more interested if they would bring back tube style HDTV's and get rid of LCD/led/etc. That would be a much bigger improvement them 4k.

Why?

Being able to play lightgun games again as well as retro consoles with cleaner visuals on a modernised CRT-type display (one which is somewhat lighter, smaller physical dimensions and more energy efficient than the old school ones you can buy second hand) would be pretty awesome.

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DaVillain-

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#6 DaVillain-  Moderator
Member since 2014 • 39154 Posts

I'm very happy to game in 1440p and get more stable framerates in the matter of speaking. 4K isn't something I'm interest despite my PC can play 4K but why should I. I prefer better framerates to better graphics myself :)

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VFighter

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#7  Edited By VFighter
Member since 2016 • 5547 Posts

@Zero_epyon: They're visually just way better and have way better motion.

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Litchie

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#8 Litchie
Member since 2003 • 24707 Posts

Smart dude. I'm not a sucker following the dumbass 4K trend either.

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blueinheaven

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#9 blueinheaven
Member since 2008 • 4660 Posts

Indie dev who makes games with PS1 quality graphics says 'graphics don't matter'.

Whole world shocked.

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dxmcat

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#10 dxmcat
Member since 2007 • 2830 Posts

Yea all you silly suckers that followed the HD trend. :P

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VFighter

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#11  Edited By VFighter
Member since 2016 • 5547 Posts

@blueinheaven: Please show is a pa1 game that looks and runs as smooth as his games. I'll wait.

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ni6htmare01

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#12 ni6htmare01
Member since 2005 • 3821 Posts

I'm happy with 1080P Just not happy that 1080P TV do not comes with HDR!

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uninspiredcup

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#13 uninspiredcup
Member since 2013 • 36166 Posts

3000% agree.

Do not care.

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NoodleFighter

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#14 NoodleFighter
Member since 2011 • 10586 Posts
@davillain- said:

I'm very happy to game in 1440p and get more stable framerates in the matter of speaking. 4K isn't something I'm interest despite my PC can play 4K but why should I. I prefer better framerates to better graphics myself :)

Yeah with so many PC gamers moving over to 144fps as the new 60fps, 4k isn't really an option outside of low end/last gen games. Hell getting 60 fps at 4K on high end games is a challenge and now we got ray tracing on top the load. I'm fine compromising with 1440p since it still looks significantly better than 1080p and the much higher framerates make up. Anyway I'm getting a Samsung QLED TV on Black Friday so I can get a good screen with 4K that has real 120hz refresh so I can play my current low end games that refresh rate and high end games when I do my GPU upgrade in the next year or two.

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GoldenElementXL

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#15 GoldenElementXL
Member since 2016 • 3578 Posts

I’m way more into 1440p and 144fps. 4K is ruined by 30fps. And to be competitive on PC, you need to prioritize frames.

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hrt_rulz01

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#16 hrt_rulz01
Member since 2006 • 19474 Posts

He makes a good point.

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R-Gamer

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#17 R-Gamer
Member since 2019 • 1091 Posts

When his games stop looking like shit I'll care what he thinks.

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pyro1245

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#18 pyro1245
Member since 2003 • 5512 Posts

Yeah resolution is near the bottom of a long list of priorities for me when it comes to gaming.

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sirk1264

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#19 sirk1264
Member since 2003 • 6035 Posts

I prefer the highest FPS possible versus resolution. Perfectly fine with my 1080p, 144 Hz, Gsync monitor. I’ll stick to watching movies in 4K.

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blueinheaven

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#20  Edited By blueinheaven
Member since 2008 • 4660 Posts
@vfighter said:

@blueinheaven: Please show is a pa1 game that looks and runs as smooth as his games. I'll wait.

You're impressed that a game with graphics that wouldn't tax a mobile phone runs smoothly? What were you playing before that? Pong?

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getyeryayasout

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#21 getyeryayasout
Member since 2005 • 12684 Posts

Consoles went 4k to push TV adoption. Besides gaming, there is little in the way of content available that take advantage.

When I game on my older 1080p set as opposed to my newer 4k set, the lack of HDR is the biggest difference I can see. Resolution means very little.

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BenjaminBanklin

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#23 BenjaminBanklin
Member since 2004 • 5223 Posts

Don't push for 4K at the sake of performance. This is really more a console problem anyway, since pushing for higher numbers for the sake of marketing has been a thing since consoles were touting bits.

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blueinheaven

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#24 blueinheaven
Member since 2008 • 4660 Posts

Pushing for 4K at the cost of framerates in games is just insane, I agree. Resolution isn't even the best thing about 4K TV's anyway. HDR is the real game changer.

Maybe next gen consoles will get their priorities straight. I wouldn't bet on it though.

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xantufrog

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#25 xantufrog  Moderator
Member since 2013 • 11861 Posts

I mean, as a PC gamer I agree. I don't game in 4K and don't feel the need to yet. I much prefer framerate and eye candy over raw pixel count - and fun+gameplay most of all! Of course, if I could have all of the above IN 4K, it would be groovy - but resolution is the lowest priority of the gaming experience for me

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VFighter

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#26 VFighter
Member since 2016 • 5547 Posts

@blueinheaven: Moving goal post huh lol, you said the games look like ps1 games, so please tell me what ps1 games look as good and run as smooth, again I'll wait.

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blueinheaven

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#27 blueinheaven
Member since 2008 • 4660 Posts
@vfighter said:

@blueinheaven: Moving goal post huh lol, you said the games look like ps1 games, so please tell me what ps1 games look as good and run as smooth, again I'll wait.

I'm not moving goalposts you're bleating about how smooth his games look have you even fucking seen them? They both look two or three gens old. Limbo is black and white you could run that thing on a Gamecube and Inside frankly looks like the work of amateurs from a graphics standpoint.

I'm not saying his games are bad but he's saying nobody needs 4K not because he makes great looking games that run at 1080p and concentrate on 60fps he's saying it because his own games look like ass compared to people who are pushing the envelope in terms of graphics.

I've said above 4K isn't everything and should never be first priority but I'll take that from someone other than him who makes games that look like they should be on a fucking phone.

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judaspete

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#28 judaspete
Member since 2005 • 3270 Posts

I kinda agree. We're at a point where resolution is so good, increasing it further doesn't make a huge difference. 4K is noticeably better, but nothing like the jump from SD to HD.

And I think my eyeballs will need to be upgraded before there is any point in 8K.

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VFighter

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#29 VFighter
Member since 2016 • 5547 Posts

@blueinheaven: You said they look like ps1 games, so once again what ps1 games do they look like? You keep getting off track, wonder why?

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blueinheaven

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#30 blueinheaven
Member since 2008 • 4660 Posts
@vfighter said:

@blueinheaven: You said they look like ps1 games, so once again what ps1 games do they look like? You keep getting off track, wonder why?

Okay, sorry, I meant PS2 which of course is a total win lolz, point is his graphics are shite. Classic way to hide this is to do things in black and white. He didn't do that with Inside and it looks like the character graphics were drawn by a child.

Also, you know full well I wasn't referring to particular games just pointing out his graphics are really dated which I know you indie hipsters see as a hallmark of quality I have no clue where to even start with that logic but to normal people it translates to 'shit graphics'.

Long story short he is in no position to comment on what is or isn't needed in terms of videogame graphics technology.

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VFighter

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#31  Edited By VFighter
Member since 2016 • 5547 Posts

@blueinheaven: There you go, that wasn't that hard now was it.

Also you dont need a game to be a technical powerhouse to look good, there are plenty of older games (nes, sms, snes, etc) and more recent indie games that look fantastic. This shouldnt be a hard concept to grasp or understand, not sure why it evades you? And those games with "shit graphics" usually have great gameplay and are fun and take risk, something bigger triple A games usually don't do. Is also take his opinion on this subject over yours lol, since you seem to be a clueless fool.

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blueinheaven

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#32 blueinheaven
Member since 2008 • 4660 Posts
@vfighter said:

@blueinheaven: There you go, that wasn't that hard now was it.

Also you dont need a game to be a technical powerhouse to look good, there are plenty of older games (nes, sms, snes, etc) and more recent indie games that look fantastic. This shouldnt be a hard concept to grasp or understand, not sure why it evades you? And those games with "shit graphics" usually have great gameplay and are fun and take risk, something bigger triple A games usually don't do. Is also take his opinion on this subject over yours lol, since you seem to be a clueless fool.

Why do you think it evades me that some indie games look great? We were talking specifically about his games not all indie games. I'm not sure how that escaped you I was quite clear.

'great gameplay' lolz the classic indie fanboy clown who thinks you can only have great gameplay if the graphics are shit lol.

Witcher 3, Bloodborne, Horizon Zero Dawn, AC Odyssey, God of War, all truly awful games because the graphics don't suck ass according to the hilarious indie fanboy clowns.

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mrbojangles25

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#33 mrbojangles25
Member since 2005 • 44852 Posts

In the pursuit of 4K, given current tech, you lose way too much. FPS, texture size, and more.

It's just not worth it.

@subspecies said:

Wake me up when the dude actually makes a game where 4k graphics matter.

Wake me up when someone makes a game where 4K is worth the trade off.

We have reached the point of diminishing return, where going from 720 to 1080 was (perception-wise, at least) like twice as awesome, but going from 1080 to 4k feels only slightly better. And, as said earlier, you lose a lot in that transition.

It's a trend, a buzzword, a marketing tool. I feel sorry for people that bought into it.

To each their own, though; if I had a PC that was powerful enough for ultra-settings, 60 fps, and 4K I'd buy a 4K screen just for the hell of it.

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Juub1990

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#34 Juub1990
Member since 2013 • 8843 Posts
@blueinheaven said:

Why do you think it evades me that some indie games look great? We were talking specifically about his games not all indie games. I'm not sure how that escaped you I was quite clear.

'great gameplay' lolz the classic indie fanboy clown who thinks you can only have great gameplay if the graphics are shit lol.

Witcher 3, Bloodborne, Horizon Zero Dawn, AC Odyssey, God of War, all truly awful games because the graphics don't suck ass according to the hilarious indie fanboy clowns.

That's what makes me laugh. "Gameplay matters, not graphics". As if graphics somewhat precluded a game from being good and vice-versa. Good graphics enrich the experience so I have no idea why some people act like we can't have great graphics and gameplay.

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thereal25

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#35 thereal25
Member since 2011 • 1864 Posts
@vfighter said:

I'm completely happy with 1080, I'd be way more interested if they would bring back tube style HDTV's and get rid of LCD/led/etc. That would be a much bigger improvement them 4k.

Unlikely to happen, but I saw a recent youtube video on the subject and it really seems that those old tube tvs can produce superior visuals/performance to even the best of what modern screens offer today!!!

As for the topic, I haven't felt a great need to switch to either 1440p or 4k on my gaming computer. Technology is evolving slowly - and it's interesting, but at the same time it's quite expensive and potentially cumbersome to be keeping up with the latest.

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blueinheaven

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#36 blueinheaven
Member since 2008 • 4660 Posts
@Juub1990 said:
@blueinheaven said:

Why do you think it evades me that some indie games look great? We were talking specifically about his games not all indie games. I'm not sure how that escaped you I was quite clear.

'great gameplay' lolz the classic indie fanboy clown who thinks you can only have great gameplay if the graphics are shit lol.

Witcher 3, Bloodborne, Horizon Zero Dawn, AC Odyssey, God of War, all truly awful games because the graphics don't suck ass according to the hilarious indie fanboy clowns.

That's what makes me laugh. "Gameplay matters, not graphics". As if graphics somewhat precluded a game from being good and vice-versa. Good graphics enrich the experience so I have no idea why some people act like we can't have great graphics and gameplay.

Exactly. It's dangerous ground, indie fans seem to think the worse the graphics are, the better the game must be.

Best to just not go there and leave them to it IMO.

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BassMan

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#37 BassMan
Member since 2002 • 10963 Posts

There is nothing useless about 4K. It is objectively better than lower resolutions. If you have the power to run 4K at high frame rates, then I don't see why you wouldn't want 4K.

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VFighter

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#38 VFighter
Member since 2016 • 5547 Posts

@blueinheaven: You keep moving goalpost and now trying to put words in my mouth lol, desperate much? I never said you cant have both, nor did I say you have to have "bad" graphics to have a good game. Thanks for showing your ignorance yet again.

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AJStyles

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#39 AJStyles
Member since 2018 • 1206 Posts

LOL Hermits.

You brag about having the best graphics and being so much better than consoles, yet steam confirms time and again that 0.4% of you play in 4K. Something insane like 64% of you play in 1080p.

I am too lazy to bring up the numbers. But why do so many of you brag about being PC master race but none of you have rigs that are substantially better than a PS4 or xbone?

PC master race is a giant joke.

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BassMan

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#40 BassMan
Member since 2002 • 10963 Posts
@ajstyles said:

LOL Hermits.

You brag about having the best graphics and being so much better than consoles, yet steam confirms time and again that 0.4% of you play in 4K. Something insane like 64% of you play in 1080p.

I am too lazy to bring up the numbers. But why do so many of you brag about being PC master race but none of you have rigs that are substantially better than a PS4 or xbone?

PC master race is a giant joke.

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Ezekiel43

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#41  Edited By Ezekiel43
Member since 2017 • 1981 Posts

@getyeryayasout said:

Consoles went 4k to push TV adoption. Besides gaming, there is little in the way of content available that take advantage.

When I game on my older 1080p set as opposed to my newer 4k set, the lack of HDR is the biggest difference I can see. Resolution means very little.

This is so wrong. Classic movies are being released on 4K all the time and usually look much cleaner (and better colored) than their 1080p predecessors (many of which weren't well transferred to begin with). I hardly give a damn about 4K gaming, because it's too demanding, but 4K movies are lovely and becoming plentiful.

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VFighter

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#42 VFighter
Member since 2016 • 5547 Posts

@BassMan: He's right though.

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freedomfreak

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#43 freedomfreak  Online
Member since 2004 • 51410 Posts

So are non-games, but developers like himself, still have the option to put them out.

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BassMan

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#44  Edited By BassMan
Member since 2002 • 10963 Posts

@vfighter said:

@BassMan: He's right though.

How so? A lot of the posters on here have good rigs that are much better than the consoles.

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Ezekiel43

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#45 Ezekiel43
Member since 2017 • 1981 Posts

@BassMan said:
@vfighter said:

@BassMan: He's right though.

How so? A lot of the posters on here have good rigs that are much better than the consoles.

He thinks a console that plays AAA games at 4K 30 fps medium-low settings is more impressive than a PC that plays AAA games at 1440p/QHD 144 fps high settings.

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dagubot

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#46 dagubot
Member since 2017 • 1445 Posts

1080p? Ewwww get that soft blurry shit out of here. I game in 4K 60 frames because I have the PC for it. Red Dead Redemption 2 on the other hand...uhhhhh.

Jokes aside the sweet spot is 1440p in my opinion but sometimes I like to switch over to my OLED.

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VFighter

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#47 VFighter
Member since 2016 • 5547 Posts

@ezekiel43: So you don't even know what we're talking about lol gotcha.

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blueinheaven

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#48 blueinheaven
Member since 2008 • 4660 Posts
@vfighter said:

@blueinheaven: You keep moving goalpost and now trying to put words in my mouth lol, desperate much? I never said you cant have both, nor did I say you have to have "bad" graphics to have a good game. Thanks for showing your ignorance yet again.

You keep saying I'm moving goalposts and backing it up with nothing. You don't even know what you're defending at this point lol.

You're just arguing for the sake of it. The fact you recognise it's possible to have both renders all your previous points invalid I mean why choose to settle for less when you don't have to? It also dumps on your idol dev's assertion that graphics don't matter when they quite clearly do for the vast majority of gamers. You suit each other.

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KungfuKitten

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#49 KungfuKitten
Member since 2006 • 26919 Posts

Yeah I like 2k for desktop monitors because you sit relatively close. But 4k isn't a very high priority for me. I rather see nicer animations/more stable framerates/nicer lighting and things like that.