PSA: Hot Chips 32 Event: Aug. 17(?) XBOX SERIES X SECRET SAUCES TO BE REVEALED!

Hey, that's my birfday.

I'd watch, but tech talk bores me.

Advanced happybirthday! *hugs*

Getting there!

https://wccftech.com/xbox-series-x-system-architecture-discussed/

mark cerny looks like he multilates animals jeffery dahmer style, too bad phil spencers gonna multilate mark.

Just a few hours left bois!

Xecret Sauces to be raveel'd!

The sauce is mayonnaise. Calling it.

Craig's Sauce.

12.15 tflop hype

Nice. Cannot wait on the explanation on the whole velocity architecture and how it can somehow outperform PS5 9GB/sec touted by the blue camp and Cerny. Could be a nice informative listen for IT deaf people like me.

No secret sauce needed, just games built with the power in mind.

They better explain to us all why their flagship title looked so outdated, they couldn't even damage control its ugliness, and it was simply delayed instead.

In all seriousness, I am excited to learn more about its innards just cause.

I know later first party AAA MS games will take great advantage of the SX/SS hardware but certainly not that recent, infamous haloin trailer.

you guys still think series x ssd is faster? 40% faster than XBOX ONE is with velocity architecture.

or are you sarcastic lol? im leaning more towards sarcastic.

too bad this is not being streamed for free

I guess we will have to wait until a Tech Journalist writes a review

That has nothing to do with the hardware that is on an inept developer

True. 343i is becoming the laughing stock of the industry.

Anyone know where you can watch it?

@supergokublitz: I was trying to find the stream and there is none

@hardwenzen:

Ask Sony why god fall the ps5 launch AAA title looks worse

HaH

Folks at Era with access are discussing this now. General consensus is the Series X will be expensive. There are slides breaking down how cost is an issue compared to previous Xbox chips. There are cores dedicated to ray tracing and they detail some of the “tricks” the hardware can perform for things like image scaling and reconstruction. (Aka their version of DLSS. Meaning sub native 4K will be a feature next gen) All pretty neat stuff

https://cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/yTqYSzDr3MGWc2QzhGR4CN-2560-80.jpg

https://cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/SwAChQXS2JsgGPpGVJvekP-1920-80.jpg

https://cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/u6DpdwnZaBFNAYjjjMijVN-650-80.jpg

I wonder how many cores are dedicated to ray tracing out of the 52.

Ray tracing occurs on the WGP. CUs are an old metric. But each WGP has 4 traditional CUs.

there is no free stream it is a conference for members of that society

Some preview slides in wccftech

https://wccftech.com/xbox-series-x-gets-ray-tracing-machine-learning-specs-boasting-3-10x-performance-improvement/

Thanks!

Someone said CPU is 8mb L3 cache. Mobile CPU confirmed as opposed to 32 mb L3 desktop class Zen 2.

https://www.resetera.com/threads/xbox-series-x-hot-chips-2020-deep-dive.269661/page-7

@rzxv04: Consoles wont have an L3 as big, it uses to much room on the die, real estate on soc is precious.

That's what they said, too, in the TH destkop Renoir review. Make room for the GPU parts of the APU.

Yeah it shows so much in that Halo presentation.😂

I have been saying it but lemmings here had been on denial,there is no damn way a 52CU huge ass chip will cost the same as a 36CU one,the price for such gap on PC goes for like $200 maybe even more,sure MS or sony will not pay such price but even paying $50 more or $40 more still is a hell of allow of money in 5 million units.

SSD and ram is also more expensive than on xbox one X as well as the soc it self,and that machine was $500 on launch.

If MS does go $500 they will eat a nice loss probably.

Why is nobody talking about the PS5 specs? Is it because there's nothing to talk about? I am worried.

These numbers are unrealistically high. The last time I saw Series X numbers it was significantly less and closer to the 2080 Ti at its best(2-10Gigarays/s). Something is not right with these figures.(I know the performance depends on the scene)

@Pedro said:

These numbers are unrealistically high. The last time I saw Series X numbers it was significantly less and closer to the 2080 Ti at its best(2-10Gigarays/s). Something is not right with these figures.(I know the performance depends on the scene)

Yeah it's likely they went with whatever number looks most impressive. Nvidia never gave away what the peak performance of the 2080 Ti, just the typical.

@Pedro said:

These numbers are unrealistically high. The last time I saw Series X numbers it was significantly less and closer to the 2080 Ti at its best(2-10Gigarays/s). Something is not right with these figures.(I know the performance depends on the scene)

Someone said there that AMD and Nvidia uses different metrics for RT perf. No idea if true.

Someone also mentioned INT perf is worse than a 2060. What is that?

Sony hasn't even done a teardown yet which is bogus.

When your system is heavily underpowered compared to its competition, you hide its specs until release, and even then, you don't reveal them but let the community find out what they're on their own. It is sad that i saw this coming like a year before the console was even shown. If the company focuses on a gimmick or an irrelevant part (like an ssd), you know the end result will be weak sauce.

I didn't expect a teardown after they showed a render of the system for the reveal. Both companies are being weird.

Dude every time you say heavily underpower you simply show you don't know much about hardware,the gap is 1.9TF that gap is the same gap you get from the 5700 to 5700XT and yeah those 2 are not hugely apart from each other on paper or in actual game performance.

What is there to hide? They already talked about the paper specs,a breakdown is simply going a little dipper but nothing will change,the xbox still is 12TF the PS5 will be the same teardown or not.

Yeah because MS has talk tons of shit about the SSD hell even on this hotship presentation they talk again about the velocity engine and all that crap even deeper,SSD is not a gimmick,is not a performance increase device either but calling it gimmick is a joke is certainly allow for some good things.

You still don't want to accept the XSX 30-50% power advantage? Stop believing Cerny's PR. The PS5 is far behind the XSX in power. I even told my mom the 9.2tflops meme. She didn't get it and told to get a life.

SECRET SAUCES TO BE REVEALED! By that you mean GAMES?

Haha! Nice.

Can't it be just SAUCES?

https://www.anandtech.com/show/15994/hot-chips-2020-live-blog-microsoft-xbox-series-x-system-architecture-600pm-pt

09:04PM EDT - Final talk of the day is Xbox Series X System Architecture!

09:05PM EDT - Azure Silicon Architecture Team

09:06PM EDT - 3.8 GHz Zen2 Server cores

09:06PM EDT - DXR, VRS, Machine LEarning Acceleration

09:07PM EDT - 14 Gbps GDDR6, 320-bit = 560 GB/s

09:07PM EDT - Hardware accelerators in blue

09:07PM EDT - 120 Hz support, VRR, Xbox Velocity Architecture for MSP Crypto/Decomp on NVMe SSD

09:07PM EDT - Acoustic acceleration

09:07PM EDT - HSP/Pluton RoT - security

09:08PM EDT - 360.4mm2 TSMC N7 enhanced

09:08PM EDT - 15.3B transistors

09:08PM EDT - 2 four core CPU clusters

09:08PM EDT - 10 GDDR6 controllers

09:09PM EDT - GPU 12 FLOPs

09:10PM EDT - AVX256 gives 972 GFLOP over CPU

09:10PM EDT - 16 GB of GDDR6 total

09:11PM EDT - >Says Zen2 server class, but L3 cache is mobile class?

09:11PM EDT - Display processing is kept off the shader engines

09:11PM EDT - IO hub supports PCIe 4.0 x8

09:11PM EDT - Operates on linear light values, not gamma light values

09:12PM EDT - ALLM - Auto Low Latency Mode

09:13PM EDT - Increased die cost on this APU over previous generation

09:13PM EDT - Significantly more expensive!

09:13PM EDT - Trade off

09:13PM EDT - MS created Audio engines - 3 engines, CFPU2, MOVAD, LOGAN

09:13PM EDT - CFPU2 for audio convolution, FFT, reverb

09:14PM EDT - such as Project Acoustics to model 3D audio sources

09:14PM EDT - MOVAD - hyper real-time hardware audio decoder

09:14PM EDT - >300x channels decode at once

09:14PM EDT - best trade off codec, so made in hardware

09:15PM EDT - >100dB signal noise ratio

09:15PM EDT - HW realtime real-time matched to decode based on sampling

09:15PM EDT - Logan is offering also better offload in traditional modes

09:15PM EDT - HSP/Pluton: Root of trust, crypto, SHACK (crypto keys)

09:15PM EDT - MSP supports 5 GB/s high-bw crypto on the SSD

09:16PM EDT - DRAM to SSD balance needed for refill

09:16PM EDT - Load times are always increasing unless SW-to-DRAM bw increases, hence NVMe SSDs

09:17PM EDT - Sampler Feedback System

09:17PM EDT - New metadata for texture portions to pre-load texture caches

09:17PM EDT - Direct Storage

09:17PM EDT - Manages data locations ahead of developer

09:18PM EDT - Distinct savings for most detail texture maps savings

09:18PM EDT - Lossless MS XVA 2:1 compression

09:19PM EDT - Need big GPU - get the tech out of the way

09:19PM EDT - Need raw ops/second increase within PPA and cost

09:19PM EDT - 12.2 supported in HW

09:19PM EDT - 26 active dual CUs (52 CUs)

09:20PM EDT - single geometry supports primatives

09:20PM EDT - DIrectly snoop CPU caches

09:20PM EDT - Dual stream multi-core command processor

09:20PM EDT - Double rate 16-bit math

09:20PM EDT - single cycle issue rate to reduce stalls

09:21PM EDT - CUs have 25% better perf/clock compared to last gen

09:21PM EDT - GPU Evolution: FLOPS have outpaced mem space and BW

09:21PM EDT - Screen pixels has increased in th emiddle

09:22PM EDT - How to fill pixels better without blowing power budget

09:22PM EDT - VRS

09:22PM EDT - supports up to 2x2

09:22PM EDT - 10-30% perf gain for tiny area cost

09:23PM EDT - Full edge detail

09:23PM EDT - SFS

09:24PM EDT - Previously very slow to enable

09:24PM EDT - Two new HW structures for tile-by-tile management for in-DRAM textures

09:25PM EDT - clamps LOD

09:26PM EDT - Tilemaps should stay on die for best latency

09:27PM EDT - SFS: 60% IO/Mem savings for small die area cost

09:27PM EDT - DX Ray Tracing Accel

09:27PM EDT - Not a complete replacement - RT can be applied selectively based on traditional models

09:28PM EDT - Custom ray-triangle units

09:28PM EDT - ML inference

09:29PM EDT - Two virtualized command streams - two VMs

09:29PM EDT - Main title OS vs system OS

09:29PM EDT - 32b HDR rendering, blending display

09:29PM EDT - Optimized games. Unable to show at the event

09:30PM EDT - Q&A Time

09:31PM EDT - Q: TDP? A: Not commenting. There's so many things that are involved in the TDP, and tradeoffs. We're not really able to descibe it without describing it in a technical environemtn

09:32PM EDT - Q: Can you stream into the GPU cache? A: Lots of programmable cache modes. Streaming modes, bypass modes, coherence modes.

09:33PM EDT - Q: Coherency CPU and GPU? A: GPU can snoop CPU, reverse requires software

09:35PM EDT - Q: Are you happy as DX12 as a low hardware API? A: DX12 is very versatile - we have some Xbox specific enhancements that power developers can use. But we try to have consistency between Xbox and PC. Divergence isn't that good. But we work with developers when designing these chips so that their needs are met. Not heard many complains so far (as a silicon person!). We have a SMASH driver model. The games on the binaries implement the hardware layed out data that the GPU eats directly - it's not a HAL layer abstraction. MS also re-writes the driver and smashes it together, we replace that and the firmware in the GPU. It's significantly more efficient than the PC.

09:35PM EDT - Q: Is link between CPU and GPU clocks? A: Hardware is independent.

09:36PM EDT - Q: Is the CPU 3.8 GHz clock a continual or turbo? A: Continual.

09:36PM EDT - Continual to minimize variance

09:37PM EDT - Q: TSMC 7nm enhanced, is it N7P, N7+, or something else? A: It's not base 7nm, it's progressed over time. Lots of work between AMD and TSMC to hit our targets and what we needed

09:38PM EDT - Q: Says Zen 2 is server class, but you use L3 mobile class? A: Yeah our caches are different, but I won't say any more, that's more AMD.

09:39PM EDT - Q: With 20 channels GDDR6, is that really cheaper than 2 stacks HBM? A: We're not religious about which DRAM tech to use. We needed the GPU to have a ton of bandwidth. Lots of channels allows for low latency requests to be serviced. HBM did have an MLC model thought about, but people voted with their feet and JEDEC decided not to go with it.

09:40PM EDT - Q: GDDR6 on sides, not bottom? A: bottom is power, how board interfaces with the chip. GPU has high EDC and currents, and you need clean copper to deliver that. With that much current you need to leave that space unless you use super expensive packaging. We did it the cost efficient way

09:41PM EDT - Q: Why do you need so much math for audio processing? A: 3D positional audio and spatial audio and real world spaces if you 300-400 audio sounds positional in 3D and want to start doing other effects on all samples, it gets very heavy compute. Imagine 20 people fighting in a cave and reflections with all sorts of noises

09:43PM EDT - That's a wrap and we're done for today. Come back tomorrow at 8:30am PT to talk about FPGAs. It's 2:44am here in the UK, time to go to bed.

Using server class Zen2 Cores

Classic moments ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.

https://www.anandtech.com/show/15994/hot-chips-2020-live-blog-microsoft-xbox-series-x-system-architecture-600pm-pt

Such a powerful machine, but no talented devs to create games that take advantage of it all. Please borrow that power to the PS5 so ND could make the best looking title ever seen by a human eye.

@hardwenzen:

Hellblade s devs laugh at your emotional damage control

HaH

HB 1 was mediocre asmr corridor game. Not sure why the sequel gets any attention. Scratch that, i know why lol. The XSX is so starving for exclusives that anything is worth hyping. Bet y'all be hyped Ryse 2 if it was announced as an exclusive 😂

Is it ketchup? Please don't let it be ketchup.

Then someone asked.

Q: Says Zen 2 is server class, but you use L3 mobile class (8mb vs 32mb desktop class)? A: Yeah our caches are different, but I won't say any more, that's more AMD.

Was he like: "..uhhh.. ask AMD?"

@sakaixx said:

Classic moments ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.

https://www.anandtech.com/show/15994/hot-chips-2020-live-blog-microsoft-xbox-series-x-system-architecture-600pm-pt

LOL

Anyway, I think we'll still have a nice uplift once devs get used to 16 threads. I remember DF mentioning the mobile variant cpus was like 83% or 87% the gaming performance of the desktop version but I guess that would really depend on the game.

Tom's shown current gen gaming, the 3300X 4 core desktop beats them "mobile cpus".

I'm excited to see next gen Fable and Avowed.

@Pedro said:

These numbers are unrealistically high. The last time I saw Series X numbers it was significantly less and closer to the 2080 Ti at its best(2-10Gigarays/s). Something is not right with these figures.(I know the performance depends on the scene)

Ah nope, different metrics. The slide is talking about ray/triangle intersections per second not rays per second like Turing.

The same metric was talked about in the original reveal for RDNA2. I'm 100% sure they chose this metric because AMD wanted to avoid direct comparison with Turing meaning it's not good compared to Nvidia.

@rzxv04: you need games to run the sauce all the talk and no games to run it